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Valve - Why do we keep hoping for games from this studio?
- Thread starter DrBo42
- Start date
eot
Banned
DMC was their way of showing appreciation for id, their games and the engine. Pretty sure id were okay with it. I mean, aren't there straight up Quake 1 sound effects in it?
A small company that sucks up about a billion dollars in profits. I think thats more than Ubisoft, whom employ more staff, output more games, and have shareholders as well.
Prophet Steve
Member
Careful there, you are so edgy you might cut someones limb off.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I enjoy Valve's output on Dota 2 and TF2, so I don't really mind a lack of new games the last year or two.
I'd rather they keep working on those games instead of winding them down to make something new.
I'd rather they keep working on those games instead of winding them down to make something new.
No one is going to respond to that.
Just because Valve makes a lot of money it doesn't mean they are obligated to expand or chase even higher profits since they are a privately held company.
Valve expanding too much could cause them to loose what makes them special. I imagine the larger a company like Valve gets, the harder it is to keep their unique development structure.
The structure of their studio will lead to their ultimate demise. The whole open task/ work on whatever you want system, without having to answer to anyone is incredibly toxic to productivity. Nothing has come of it and it makes them look foolish. If they didn't have steam to fill their pocket books they would have been absorbed by EA or MS for their ip.
It's been 5 years since Portal 2, they haven't had an original title that isn't a sequal or a mod of something since Left 4 Dead... It's a sad state of affairs.
It's been 5 years since Portal 2, they haven't had an original title that isn't a sequal or a mod of something since Left 4 Dead... It's a sad state of affairs.
ashecitism
Member
Erik Wolpaw wrote the story (Chet Faliszek did contribute too I think) and Kelly Bailey, Mike Morasky did the audio, none of them were from Digipen obviously. It was made by a small team, but it wasn't solely the Digipen guys.
Shuggananas
Banned
Nah I think they're making ok money. What does it matter if it's "sequels or mods" ?
I'm not saying there obligated to chase higher profits(no company is obligated to chase or expand). They get more than enough profits and they dont do much with it. Their like Apple in the PC space. They have a monopoly and a huge amount of profits with such a small amount of effort compared to everyone else.
I dont see much special about their development process or structure. They employ such talented developers and dont seem to do much with them. Their output for their size compared to others much less. The are really efficient at making money but not so much at making games.
Sven Coop was the better Coop experience for Half Life.
But yeah Opposing Forces was better in terms of maps and layout, but Blue Shift was very similar to Decay in terms of level design. I still prefered the formers to the latter but Decay gave us a nice fun experience, but I see it more as a bonus for the PS2 version.
Still happy that someone ported it to PC later on. I've been playing it with a friend and it's fun, but nothing special.
Both Blue Shift and Decay suffered of being extra add ons to sell the Dreamcast and PS2 version respectively. They were both very short.
Opposing Force was the only one that was made ground up for PC.
But yeah, a group of Ucranian developers ported the game to PC and it's fully playable in Coop
http://www.moddb.com/mods/half-life-decay
It even has the extra level where you play as a Xen creature
Sure, I can host the server if you want. I'll send you a PM with my steam user, hit me up later tonight and we will play.
What's your cell #?
One company mate
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Vive?
Ok, except for that. Oh and Steam Box's, and the Steam controller, Steam OS, Steam link, Big Picture, International competitions, Mod Stores, and whatever else their cooking.
What have they ever done for us?
ScatheZombie
Member
Your original premise was that DOTA 2 was a 'shot in the dark' for Valve. That they didn't know, starting development, that the game would be popular. When I showed you how that wasn't true - how DOTA was immensely popular already and other companies had already been developing clones for years - instead of admitting you don't know what you are talking about, you doubled-down on trying to say they didn't know the business model would work.
Except you don't start designing a game around a business model - unless you want to make one of those awful F2P titles that are clearly designed around pain-point monetization. So, their initial risk assessment of development would have nothing to do with that. You are conflating risk of development (whether or not the game will be popular/successful) with the risk of business model (the relative degree of profitability).
Excluding the fact that it's nearly impossible to screw up a business model on a popular title to the point of non-profitability - pretty much any of the current business models for any game type will generate enough revenue to sustain your business if your product is popular (except maybe a subscription MMO). It's nigh-impossible for a game to be both highly popular and financially unsuccessful, regardless of their monetization (save for the extremely rare exceptions of games that intentionally do not monetize or games with extremely inflated budgets that never would have been financially successful anyway). The risk of a monetization plan is in the degree of financial profitability, not success or failure.
But let's talk about the actual risk of their business model anyway...
...which was essentially zero risk because they tested it on TF2, successfully, a whole 2 years earlier. The DOTA 2 business model is literally just a reapplication of the F2P TF2 model.
Like I said, you literally don't know what you are talking about.
The Lamonster
Member
What happened to the team that created the Half-Life games?
I assumed they went on to create Portal 1 & 2 since they're so similar, but OP acts like they were outsourced.
I assumed they went on to create Portal 1 & 2 since they're so similar, but OP acts like they were outsourced.
ashecitism
Member
Some of them are still there working on multiple things.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
Valve makes the games they want to make. They make a ton of profit and it's been a steady stream of great games. Can't see how anyone can complain. Well, except the people who only want single player only campaigns that aren't profitable in the least for a company like this.
Boy do people get cray when talking about Valve's output, mod teams they've brought on, etc. And on the same forum where people have convoluted arguments about what constitutes Nintendo second-party, and pretend everything is a Sony game because they heard about it for the first time on PlayStation Blog.
Valve makes a lot of shit, OP. I'm also super disappointed that they didn't announce a new game this year, and am skeptical about them announcing anything next year as well. But they're busy with a million things. I think a bigger issue is the lack of meaningful updates for their flagship games (CS:GO and Dota 2) and the quality of some of their community-driven updates (TF2). Their QC and output seemed to bottom out this year.
Also, still don't see Left 4 Dead 3 actually happening, unless they've somehow figured out a way to tie it into their VR ecosystem.
Valve makes a lot of shit, OP. I'm also super disappointed that they didn't announce a new game this year, and am skeptical about them announcing anything next year as well. But they're busy with a million things. I think a bigger issue is the lack of meaningful updates for their flagship games (CS:GO and Dota 2) and the quality of some of their community-driven updates (TF2). Their QC and output seemed to bottom out this year.
Also, still don't see Left 4 Dead 3 actually happening, unless they've somehow figured out a way to tie it into their VR ecosystem.
The way I see it is like this: Similar to how console makers wind down software support for the previous gen when a new console is in the pipeline, Valve is working on getting their VR out the door before releasing new games. I fully expect L4D3 or something else to be released this time next year to help drive hardware adoption.
krameriffic
Member
Lol. Nothing has come out of it except for 2 million peak concurrent Dota 2 and CS:GO players every day.
VincentMatts
Member
Im not a fan a Valve in general so for me, i have very little expectations from them.
CupONoodos
Neo Member
Pretty much my exact feelings with the company. Everything they release has so much quality and support that I never exactly feel like I need something new from them unless they make it. I've pretty much played a Valve game throughout my entire life. Childhood was Counter-Strike 1.5 and Half-Life + mods. Highschool was Half-Life 2 + mods, Portal, and Left 4 Dead + 2. Now college and after it's Dota 2. Can't say any studio has ever made an important game for me in each stage of my life except them. Whether or not they actually make a new game doesn't matter with me because they've already made the best games I've ever played and I'm more than satisfied with what they've given me.
Nothing? Seriously?
They have created, run and grown two of the most played games on Steam along with TF2, which still has a considerable userbase. Live ops is absolutely not "nothing" and they are continously growing the userbase of both games. They do not look foolish. Their structure is also the reason why they will survive for a long time, not just their position on the market, but the fact that they can make hit services and grow them extremely well while retaining a ton of key staff and make truly data driven decisions.
Abilidebob
Member
See? Was that hard? Did you really have to act like a prick for 2 whole posts?
dave is ok
aztek is ok
The writing of Portal is the best part of the game
Don't be silly, Valve did nothing but hire the digipen people and repackage/sold their game under the Valve name, like they do with everything else. -actual arguments used in every Valve thread.
Believe.....
I was just thinking the other day, that I hope they make the menu still in this style.
Robot Carnival
Member
I've been following Valve since the original Half Life. not every game they made is my cup of tea, but I always look forward to their games because they care about what they're making. Portal, Team Fortress, DOTA2, all gave me hours upon hours of fun and Steam provided me with something I can use to find new fun games and people to play them with. why won't I look forward to more games from them? do you realize that some people doesn't care that these games are not "original ideas"? it's not like Valve stole them and didn't pay the people who thought of them a single red cent; no, Valve took them under their wings and made them part of their family. Valve gave them room to grow and help them polish their ideas into an even better product. I can only hope that more companies would be like them.
I think they are going through the whole Apple/Pixar treatment right now (even though the rate of their product output is far from those two companies). especially with Apple on how they develop things that's not their own invention. they gotten "big" and they're moving in their own direction and pace, therefore people are finding that uncomfortable since it's different than what they are used to or accustomed to.
as someone else had mentioned, they are still a relatively small company even with all that money. they're working on a whole bunch of stuff right now with that small crew, and they work very differently than your "normal" developer. and somebody was critical about their whole "work on what you like" method, which I feel is a non-issue. are you worry that it'll stifle their creativity and their drive, which is understandable. but would you care to consider for a moment, that these are not your everyday salaryman who're just there for the 9 to 5 grind? they are very passionate about their work and they already have a rather good income and work environment. I've worked with people like that (well, minus the high income and comfortable work environment lol) and you never need to worry about their performance since they're always looking to improve and looking to make new things. should they at least let us know if things like Half Life 3 is actually in the works or how far down it's progress is? it sure won't hurt! but I believe that they have their reasons and I'm willing to wait. in the mean time, just go play one of their hat and cosmetic simulators or something else you like. because at the end, no matter if you chose to believe them or not, there will always be more games to play; especially after I looked at my Steam library and see the huge backlog that make this painfully true.
I think they are going through the whole Apple/Pixar treatment right now (even though the rate of their product output is far from those two companies). especially with Apple on how they develop things that's not their own invention. they gotten "big" and they're moving in their own direction and pace, therefore people are finding that uncomfortable since it's different than what they are used to or accustomed to.
as someone else had mentioned, they are still a relatively small company even with all that money. they're working on a whole bunch of stuff right now with that small crew, and they work very differently than your "normal" developer. and somebody was critical about their whole "work on what you like" method, which I feel is a non-issue. are you worry that it'll stifle their creativity and their drive, which is understandable. but would you care to consider for a moment, that these are not your everyday salaryman who're just there for the 9 to 5 grind? they are very passionate about their work and they already have a rather good income and work environment. I've worked with people like that (well, minus the high income and comfortable work environment lol) and you never need to worry about their performance since they're always looking to improve and looking to make new things. should they at least let us know if things like Half Life 3 is actually in the works or how far down it's progress is? it sure won't hurt! but I believe that they have their reasons and I'm willing to wait. in the mean time, just go play one of their hat and cosmetic simulators or something else you like. because at the end, no matter if you chose to believe them or not, there will always be more games to play; especially after I looked at my Steam library and see the huge backlog that make this painfully true.
BlastProcessing
Member
The structure of their studio isn't exactly the free wheeling love fest that most people think it is.
Valve developers most certainly have to answer to someone. Are you basing your entire understanding on how the company runs around that one twee employee cartoon? If your understanding of how Valve works = obvious disaster, and yet Valve has been able to grow and succeed over the course of many years, doesn't that suggest that your understanding is flawed?
I also love your tautology there. If they wouldn't have been so successful they would have failed! Valve is, straight up, one of the most prolific studios out there and are the most prolific pound for pound.
I know that the discussion has much more nuances that what Im posting, but the way Valve is structured doesnt seem kind to internal projects to do more traditional game releases. Many peolple here dont realize that Valve develops a lot of internal ideas but its more in the form of modes for their games: Payload, Mann VS Machine, Greeviling, Overthrow, halloween events, etc. All off them internally designed at Valve, because they are "fast" to make and convince your coworkers that its a fun thing to release.
But to convince your coworkers that the idea that you are starting to work its good and deserves their commitement? For a project that wont show results maybe for years? Thats another story. Thats why Valve gets "outsiders" ideas and gets them to works and polish them, because they can see a finished (or almost) product and decide that its worth doing, you dont have the uncertanity that mayb its not going to work. Thats maybe why the only Valve internal project that we know it existed is Stars of Blood.
And thats also why Im worried but happy about Brad Muir joining Valve, Hes a charismatic person that can convince people to join a project, a person that has lead projects like Iron Brigade and Massive Chalice, he could make games that would be awesome with Valve polish. Or we could just have him stuck in the Valve organitation making Dota changes.
But to convince your coworkers that the idea that you are starting to work its good and deserves their commitement? For a project that wont show results maybe for years? Thats another story. Thats why Valve gets "outsiders" ideas and gets them to works and polish them, because they can see a finished (or almost) product and decide that its worth doing, you dont have the uncertanity that mayb its not going to work. Thats maybe why the only Valve internal project that we know it existed is Stars of Blood.
And thats also why Im worried but happy about Brad Muir joining Valve, Hes a charismatic person that can convince people to join a project, a person that has lead projects like Iron Brigade and Massive Chalice, he could make games that would be awesome with Valve polish. Or we could just have him stuck in the Valve organitation making Dota changes.
Interficium
Banned
"If it wasn't for your most successful product, you would have failed!"
I love this line of thinking. Somebody looks foolish, alright.
Valve has become somewhat of a publisher. But instead of buying developers and keeping their studios intact, Valve absorbs them into the fold and exposes their ideas to Valve's resources. It's a method that seems to work for them and I'm happy they've done what they've done with the likes of Portal.
ebullientprism
Member
Seriously. Its hilarious.
Are we living in an alternate universe where the sequel to almost every single one of those games thats been made by Valve isnt beyond amazing?This is Valve's resume over the last 10 years -
Three of the best SP games of the last decade. HL ep1 and 2 and Portal 2.
The best co op game ever made. L4D2
The best vs shooter on the market right now. CSGO.
The best MOBA. DOTA 2
A sequel to any of those games would probably break the freaking internet.
These guys dont just make good games. They make standard setters for whatever genre they touch. There is literally no other developer that compares. Not for quality. Not for the width of genres they dabble in.
Only on GAF would a ridiculous question like this even come up.
yes what
they did narbacular drop, the game was transformed at valve in portal, with the help of quite a few valve employees, just look at the credits list.
FloorEssence
Neo Member
Not just VR, but also they are developing a whole new engine, Source 2. Not a simple task, especially considering Valve are probably going to load it with features for VR, modding etc
This. It doesn't matter if they brought in teams from the outside to develop existing ideas or mods - how do you think hiring works at a company? Devs don't just magically get all the right people with no experience and churn out hits.
Valve's business model works and it works brilliantly. And, as a consumer, I'm ecstatic with all their output. I buy all new PC games for $45 at most due to Steam these days. Just for that, they get a pass.
The fact that they made a few of my favourite games of all time (DOTA2/L4D)? That's even better.
Chezzymann
Member
Seriously. That's like saying 343 didn't make Halo 5 since bungie made the original. It's ridiculous. Valve made Portal 2, Dota 2, Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead 2, CS Go, they've made a lot of games. They haven't released a new game since 2013 though, which is a while.
Robot Pants
Member
Nah. They just exist to sell you skins and cosmetic items now.