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[kswiston]

I don't mind that Valve hires on modders and small teams to do games for them. They are still Valve games in the same way that Luigi's Mansion 2 was still a Nintendo game.

That said, Valve hasn't released anything in 2.5 years and seems to be content on coasting off of DOTA 2, CS GO, and TF2 in perpetuity (while raking in tons of cash from their storefront).

 

[Sibylus]

"Valve aren't solely game developers".

There. Maybe we can move past snark and onto the two year drought of Valve game releases. I figure it has something to do with them moving onto their Source 2 toolchain.

 

[injurai]

Given Valve's history, I'm surprised more people aren't supportive in Valve directly hiring their modding community. Valve patronizes their community far more than any other developer, giving them careers and resources to make great things. Robin Walker got to make TF2 based on his modding work. In the games industry people move between companies all the time, so just because someone was independent before the switch doesn't make the game non-valve or something.

 

[Robot Carnival]

Broken game? I think given the ridiculous time-span involved that's a pretty thin hand waving excuse at this juncture. Also sure games/products get delayed all the time, the differential is pretty much any other company actually makes the effort to notify their customer base of an updated ETA. This 'radio silence' approach by Valve is frankly embarrassing from a business perspective and it undermines confidence in their ability to deliver and more importantly stick the course, versus throw the towel in when the going gets tough or some other shiny new project comes into their sights.

first of all, going back to the Apple comparison, as far as I know most of Apple's products had a pretty short time between announcement and introduction into the market. I could be wrong on that since I don't really own any Apple devices other then an iPad (not a big fan of some of their policies but they're still a great company) but going off what I remember, Apple also kept most of their new products in secret until the announcement. did they sell boatloads of them still? you bet they did! when you have something THAT well-known and your company's track record is that good, people WILL buy it. do you feel the way Apple had been doing things is also embarrassing? the truth is, some companies just doesn't fit into the "normal" business practice model. and as long as their product and/or service is good, why would you be upset that their way is different and unusual?

yes, the silence is hard to deal with, but what if they make the announcement? what will happen? the developers who's attach to the project will get harassment from people everyday for information. people would try to hack them (ie. HL2). there would be tons of problems following the announcement and no real benefit for them, so why do it? I know a lot of fans feel they're cheated on the whole HL issue, but Valve doesn't really owe anyone anything. I'm not going to tell you if you should feel this way or that way towards Valve, but if you're really feeling Valve had lost "it", then just stop supporting them. move on to some other developer's games. if you care enough about them, just try to support them in their own terms and maybe send in an email or two every now and then to Gaben and hope he replys. I find that patience is the best approach on these things. don't try to have others change when the problem at hand isn't theirs.

 

[Lucini]

first of all, going back to the Apple comparison, as far as I know most of Apple's products had a pretty short time between announcement and introduction into the market. I could be wrong on that since I don't really own any Apple devices other then an iPad (not a big fan of some of their policies but they're still a great company) but going off what I remember, Apple also kept most of their new products in secret until the announcement. did they sell boatloads of them still? you bet they did! when you have something THAT well-known and your company's track record is that good, people WILL buy it. do you feel the way Apple had been doing things is also embarrassing? the truth is, some companies just doesn't fit into the "normal" business practice model. and as long as their product and/or service is good, why would you be upset that their way is different and unusual?

yes, the silence is hard to deal with, but what if they make the announcement? what will happen? the developers who's attach to the project will get harassment from people everyday for information. people would try to hack them (ie. HL2). there would be tons of problems following the announcement and no real benefit for them, so why do it? I know a lot of fans feel they're cheated on the whole HL issue, but Valve doesn't really owe anyone anything. I'm not going to tell you if you should feel this way or that way towards Valve, but if you're really feeling Valve had lost "it", then just stop supporting them. move on to some other developer's games. if you care enough about them, just try to support them in their own terms and maybe send in an email or two every now and then to Gaben and hope he replys. I find that patience is the best approach on these things. don't try to have others change when the problem at hand isn't theirs.

Sometimes the period with Apple is a matter of weeks, sometimes it's half a year or longer (see Apple Watch). Valve isn't not updating people on a project, the project is assumed to be happening based upon some plot points, a few endings and tie-ins from other titles. Remember Episode 3 concept art existed in 2010 too. Half-Life 3 is an assumed title, and if there's no information from Valve, then it just as well doesn't exist.

The point I made originally is that they have an opportunity for a more aligned business, and are taking it, even if that means some of their original business becomes a hobby.

 

[DealWithIt]

Yo, I'm out.

"People disagree with me, I can't deal."

The weird thing about this reasoning is that it says that valves hires good developers with good ideas, therefore Valve can't develop games. I want games from valve because i like their past work, whether they bought it or made it in house doesn't change the fact they are good.

It may be awhile, but we'll get more ip from them. It's a lot like blizzard with OW. They just take their time with properties.

 

[jambo]

I have no clue how Valve's sequels don't count when half the AAA releases apparently do. How is CS:GO less of a sequel than Battlefield 4?

The funny thing is DICE bought the dev team behind the Desert Combat mod and then closed them down just before the release of Battlefield 2.

 

[spindoctor]

Actually, Turtle Rock's L4D was super far along when it went to Valve. I think Valve only had about a year with the game. While I agree with you re: Narbacular Drop, Turtle Rock's L4D > Valve's L4D. Valve without Turtle Rock went off and made Left 4 Dead 2, which added one essential monster but lowered the overall quality of L4D2 by a significant margin.

I'd just like to point out that Turtle Rock without Valve went on to make Evolve, the game that died and was forgotten days after it's release. Meanwhile, L4D2 is still pulling 10,000 people a day 6 years after it's release. Do you think that's an accident?

I'm always a bit baffled when people propagate this notion that 'Valve just hired creators and released their ideas'. It just completely ignores the amount of production work and thought that goes into anything they release. Those creators are given as much time and resources as they need to make a game as perfect as they can. Almost no one in the industry gets that opportunity. People should seriously find a Valve title with commentary mode and just listen to how much they think about every tiny detail in their games.

And then there is community building. No one does it as well as they do.

TF2 released 8 years ago. It has gotten hundreds of patches and content updates over the years. That one game has gotten more content updates than studios put out in their entire existence.

CSGO was a low quality disaster of a game when it released in 2012. A $15 title that most studios would have written off and moved on. Valve on the other hand actually started working on it and providing content and updates that the community wanted. The result? CSGO had 1 million monthly active users in December 2013. It has 9 million unique monthly users in December 2015. It has reclaimed it's position as the de-facto e-sport shooter. Has anyone ever seen a game turn around like CSGO? Was that an accident?

Dota 2 is also sitting on 11 million active players per month and growing. In an industry which manages to disgust you with new monetization schemes on a daily basis, they have set the standard for what a fair free to play model should look like. They have staunchly refused to ever sell anything outside cosmetics in their games. And they have grown Dota 2 into possibly the most lucrative e-sport around. Was that an accident?

On top of all of this they have built a system where talented creators can make content for their games. That content is then put in front of the community who get to decide what they want in their game. And then the creators of the chosen content are paid for their work. Valve have given out millions of dollars to these creators. So the content creator gets paid, Valve gets paid and the community gets entirely optional content that they chose into the game. Everybody wins. How does that $50, 4 map pack season pass look in comparison to this?

A company like Valve that bucks the industry wide trend of releasing annual or bi-annual sequels and instead chooses to support their existing games and communities for years and then people give them shit for 'not making games'. Okay then.

 

[ayob]

I'd just like to point out that Turtle Rock without Valve went on to make Evolve, the game that died and was forgotten days after it's release. Meanwhile, L4D2 is still pulling 10,000 people a day 6 years after it's release. Do you think that's an accident?

I'm always a bit baffled when people propagate this notion that 'Valve just hired creators and released their ideas'. It just completely ignores the amount of production work and thought that goes into anything they release. Those creators are given as much time and resources as they need to make a game as perfect as they can. Almost no one in the industry gets that opportunity. People should seriously find a Valve title with commentary mode and just listen to how much they think about every tiny detail in their games.

And then there is community building. No one does it as well as they do.

TF2 released 8 years ago. It has gotten hundreds of patches and content updates over the years. That one game has gotten more content updates than studios put out in their entire existence.

CSGO was a low quality disaster of a game when it released in 2012. A $15 title that most studios would have written off and moved on. Valve on the other hand actually started working on it and providing content and updates that the community wanted. The result? CSGO had 1 million monthly active users in December 2013. It has 9 million unique monthly users in December 2015. It has reclaimed it's position as the de-facto e-sport shooter. Has anyone ever seen a game turn around like CSGO? Was that an accident?

Dota 2 is also sitting on 11 million active players per month and growing. In an industry which manages to disgust you with new monetization schemes on a daily basis, they have set the standard for what a fair free to play model should look like. They have staunchly refused to ever sell anything outside cosmetics in their games. And they have grown Dota 2 into possibly the most lucrative e-sport around. Was that an accident?

On top of all of this they have built a system where talented creators can make content for their games. That content is then put in front of the community who get to decide what they want in their game. And then the creators of the chosen content are paid for their work. Valve have given out millions of dollars to these creators. So the content creator gets paid, Valve gets paid and the community gets entirely optional content that they chose into the game. Everybody wins. How does that $50, 4 map pack season pass look in comparison to this?

A company like Valve that bucks the industry wide trend of releasing annual or bi-annual sequels and instead chooses to support their existing games and communities for years and then people give them shit for 'not making games'. Okay then.

Youre missing the point, we just want half life 3 or portal 3 or L4D3....anything with a 3

 

[Robot Carnival]

Sometimes the period with Apple is a matter of weeks, sometimes it's half a year or longer (see Apple Watch). Valve isn't not updating people on a project, the project is assumed to be happening based upon some plot points, a few endings and tie-ins from other titles. Remember Episode 3 concept art existed in 2010 too. Half-Life 3 is an assumed title, and if there's no information from Valve, then it just as well doesn't exist.

The point I made originally is that they have an opportunity for a more aligned business, and are taking it, even if that means some of their original business becomes a hobby.

I guess I didn't express my point very well, but basically I'm trying to say the same thing as you. Half Life 3 and all the other "3" games were never announced to be in the works and no matter how much we hate it we have no rights to blame them on not updating us about something that technically doesn't exist. (of course it would also be nice if they'll at least let us know if they're working on any new games at all...)

Youre missing the point, we just want half life 3 or portal 3 or L4D3....anything with a 3

we all do, my friend. however, sometimes we just need to allow them their space and time and sit back so they can do their work, no matter if it'll be something we want or not. besides, anything else other then a "3" game they work on will be more things they can use on something you do care later on.

 

[Kadayi]

yes, the silence is hard to deal with, but what if they make the announcement? what will happen? the developers who's attach to the project will get harassment from people everyday for information. people would try to hack them (ie. HL2). there would be tons of problems following the announcement and no real benefit for them, so why do it? I know a lot of fans feel they're cheated on the whole HL issue, but Valve doesn't really owe anyone anything. I'm not going to tell you if you should feel this way or that way towards Valve, but if you're really feeling Valve had lost "it", then just stop supporting them. move on to some other developer's games. if you care enough about them, just try to support them in their own terms and maybe send in an email or two every now and then to Gaben and hope he replys. I find that patience is the best approach on these things. don't try to have others change when the problem at hand isn't theirs.

I gotta love how debasing a customer base to 'fans' somehow makes terrible business practices somehow palatable. Or make bizarre analogies to Apples release schedule, given they are devices rather than incomplete narrative experiences.

When Gaben is in the restaurant and that third course is AWOL for a hour or more, do you think he just sits there patiently waiting? He's not paid the bill, chefs owe him nothing after all. Simply bizarre how people find reasons to excuse this sort of thing tbh.

I guess I didn't express my point very well, but basically I'm trying to say the same thing as you. Half Life 3 and all the other "3" games were never announced to be in the works

The episodic thing was announced as a trilogy with a wrap up date around Holiday 2007 as a means to sell the series to consumers.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ha...-gold-two-dated-three-announced/1100-6151796/