Horse Detective
Why the long case?
This was my thought too.
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Verge Interview: Gabe talks about the Steambox
- Thread starter Mr_Elysia
- Start date
This was my thought too.
Really? Interesting.
Same, I could take my library with me. Sounds good.
I don't know about perfect, but he does hit some of the high points about why it doesn't work completely as a full out replacement.
I think I would buy one in addition to my PC. I still need a desktop for work purposes at home. But this would be nice for the living room.
Trackball, a variety of analog sticks, and probably others as well.
Note: Before anyone screams bloody murder about the d-pad or layout, remember that PATENT ILLUSTRATIONS ARE NOT INDICATIVE OF THE FINAL DESIGN!
Such a great idea though. Will need to include a nice little box to house the inputs.
Please not here.... Don't hijack this thread with that whole for/against Win8 stuff again!
Oh, come on, it's hardly the "Windows 8 Defense Force".
Gabe obviously has a pony in the race, it's not unreasonable to raise issue over him being somewhat disingenuous.
crimsonheadGCN
Banned
There is an app within Windows Media Center for Windows 7. It'll show up as an option once you complete the initial setup of Media Center and restart it.
Ivan
Member
Trackball, a variety of analog sticks, and probably others as well.
Note: Before anyone screams bloody murder about the d-pad or layout, remember that PATENT ILLUSTRATIONS ARE NOT INDICATIVE OF THE FINAL DESIGN!
I like the idea a lot, it could be really great for fps and camera control in general (and anything that needs natural feel that pointing device gives), but easily switchable to thumbstick which is better for some other genres.
This video could help you visualize it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRKFoJsUV1k
I think we'll see a bigger ball which will help with forming muscle memory. And it's weight could be very important, too. You can have that "empty" feel of a pointing device with lighter ball or more "feedback" with heavier. I hope they'll find some nice balance in all that.
I have zero interest in a stand alone steam box. It just doesn't fit into my life. That streaming solution Gabe talked about, though. Give it to me now! Best of both worlds. I can use my monitor, mouse and keyboard setup for games it works best with, and play fully speced up PC games on my big screen when I want that. Bundle it with a good wireless controller and I will instantly buy it.
That looks pretty sick. It's hilarious how precision aiming for gamepads was right under our noses all along.
Hate to break it to you but a LOT of people don't like Windows 8, not just Gabe.
I'd like to point you toward Project Shield. Powered by Nvidia.
outunderthestars
Banned
How is me questioning an incredibly vague section of the interview in a thread about said interview hijacking it?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Only a power user geek would say something like "Windows 8 is unusable". I think that's incredibly hyperbolic and untrue. Im sure it's not "unusable" for him in the slightest, he's just ideologically opposed to it.
That said, I'm kind of glad there are power user geeks who are strident about open platforms and have bold alternative visions. It's a check and balance against total Microsoft control. I respect and appreciate the man, I love Valve and Steam, and I can't wait to see what Steam Box becomes.
That said, I'm kind of glad there are power user geeks who are strident about open platforms and have bold alternative visions. It's a check and balance against total Microsoft control. I respect and appreciate the man, I love Valve and Steam, and I can't wait to see what Steam Box becomes.
That's not at all what I want. I want the wireless display functionality he's talking about, not that On-Live style stuff. Give me that, cheap and with a good interface. I'd be OK if it just ran steam big picture mode.
Baconsammy
Banned
Not liking it is fine. I don't like it. Calling it 'unusable" is both disingenuous and stupid.
So there's going to be a box that will stream games from my rig to my TV over my local network? Sounds fucking awesome, I want that and an actual box to take with me to friends' houses.
Biometrics in controllers sounds interesting. I'm not sure how it could be implemented to add to the experience though.
And yes, waggle controls are fucking terrible, ruined Skyward Sword for me. Glad Valve sees that it's kind of pointless.
Biometrics in controllers sounds interesting. I'm not sure how it could be implemented to add to the experience though.
And yes, waggle controls are fucking terrible, ruined Skyward Sword for me. Glad Valve sees that it's kind of pointless.
As if you're telling me something I don't already know. I'm still on Windows 7. This thread isn't about a lot of people; It's about Gabe, his interview, and the statements he made in said interview.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Called it (as if it wasn't somewhat obvious). This thing is literally going to be an inverted PS3. Linux + Steam as a gateway for console gamers who don't want to/dont know how to deal with PC gaming, and a media box for the rest of us.
Not really sure why I'd buy one from them specifically rather than just making my own, but as several people have said: This thing really isn't for existing PC gamers.
I wouldn't be surprised if the PS3 wasn't the prototype for the Steambox. IIRC they released the PS3 Steam support before Sony removed OtherOS and I'm sure Gabe had some seed of an idea about using OtherOS as a bigger gateway into the console market. It's also why you haven't seen any more support for anything Steam related on the PS3 after that.
I don't think you get project shield. It's exactly that, but in a handheld form factor. It's not streaming games from a cloud service, but from the PC, and you can plug it into a TV.
That said, streaming is definitely going to be a huge thing this gen. Steam getting in on the game would be fantastic, as Shield is Nvidia exclusive. Maybe they can work it from AMD's angle. They already work together as far as maintaining drivers and such.
Can't wait to just buy the Valve controller by itself.
Then we can finally ditch these Microsoft controllers. I'm sure the Valve version will have better build quality and support.
Actually not a bad idea.
Something that small would be perfect for LAN parties, as its difficult to build something that small yourself.
Then we can finally ditch these Microsoft controllers. I'm sure the Valve version will have better build quality and support.
Actually not a bad idea.
Something that small would be perfect for LAN parties, as its difficult to build something that small yourself.
Motion is... unimportant with a 2D environment.
In a 3D visual environment (aka VR), I'd say it was pretty critical.
Given that computing will transition to VR displays over the next decade or so, it seems inevitable that motion will become a centrally important part of the user interface scheme.
The main point of difference between 2d and 3D motion input is the Z-axis. Sounds stupidly obvious...
But it means with 2D - you move your hand around a 2D plane - and to register your 'button presses', you hold it in the area for about a second+ for it to register.
Unnatural, lacking in immediacy and responsiveness.
In 3D - you move your hand around - you want to activate something, you reach out and touch it. As soon as you cross over the boundary you illicit a response from it. We even have the capacity to recognize different gestures and intent depending on how you cross the boundary (from the left, or the right, with one finger, or two fingers, or middle finger, etc).
While controllers will continue to offer some compelling advantages over motion control (always will), in such a light, motion control could understandably become the primary method of input for many applications, especially when it starts to encompass more than just hands and arms.
To put the problem on its side - how would you try to navigate a real 3D environment in detail without a motion controller?
In a 3D visual environment (aka VR), I'd say it was pretty critical.
Given that computing will transition to VR displays over the next decade or so, it seems inevitable that motion will become a centrally important part of the user interface scheme.
The main point of difference between 2d and 3D motion input is the Z-axis. Sounds stupidly obvious...
But it means with 2D - you move your hand around a 2D plane - and to register your 'button presses', you hold it in the area for about a second+ for it to register.
Unnatural, lacking in immediacy and responsiveness.
In 3D - you move your hand around - you want to activate something, you reach out and touch it. As soon as you cross over the boundary you illicit a response from it. We even have the capacity to recognize different gestures and intent depending on how you cross the boundary (from the left, or the right, with one finger, or two fingers, or middle finger, etc).
While controllers will continue to offer some compelling advantages over motion control (always will), in such a light, motion control could understandably become the primary method of input for many applications, especially when it starts to encompass more than just hands and arms.
To put the problem on its side - how would you try to navigate a real 3D environment in detail without a motion controller?
Ah, I thought it was just the on-live stuff. Honestly, it still doesn't fit for me. I'd want something sub $150. Shield will clearly cost way more. Also, don't need the handled part. Just give me a box I can plug into my tv and a controller. No interest in the bulk that the handheld stuff adds to the controller.
MakeMeFeelAlive
Member
I think Steambox is what will affect the new xbox sales. If most xbox games are released on the steambox, I much rather get it than the new xbox. They will take sales from the ps4, but sony has it's back catalog and exclusives to fall back on. I personally will not buy a new console for halo (even though i know a good amount of people who would). I don't care enough about their other exclusives to warrant a purchase.
Obviously, there is a lot of time between the release of all three.. but I see myself going with ps4 and steambox. Some of my friends feel the same way, so I'm not alone. Maybe we're part of a smaller crowd, but i doubt it for some reason.
Obviously, there is a lot of time between the release of all three.. but I see myself going with ps4 and steambox. Some of my friends feel the same way, so I'm not alone. Maybe we're part of a smaller crowd, but i doubt it for some reason.
Whiskeymatt
Member
I'm way past due for a new gaming PC, and seeing that you can install Windows on it has drawn me back to being interested in the Steambox. If the features, price, controller, etc. are all compelling enough I may go that route instead of building my own. So I guess we'll just wait and see.
la flama blanca
Banned
You should read just a bit more, Valve is trying to solve this....
outunderthestars
Banned
Valve knows that traditional desktop PC gaming is going to decline over the next decade, and are looking for new ways to bring open platform gaming to the living room. The Steambox is just the first baby step in that direction.
NaM
Does not have twelve inches...
I always forget PC gaming is dead.
Wrong path for gaming as a whole? Sure. Wrong path for any games to take? No way.
His explanation of using an arm to do a task that could be done by the "higher bandwidth" fingers is a clever one, and is a valid criticism of most of motion gaming. "Waggling" to activate a singular action is inaccurate, inefficient and unnecessary. However, that is really only aspect of motion controls and precision. If the goal is to simply activate a function (an on/off sort of toggle, as in a button push), a finger is much better than an arm. If the goal is to aim a pointer, then sure, a mouse movement is probably more efficient than a whole arm movement (though I do think something like Wii's IR pointer control for shooting can be fun).
But what if the goal is to accurately model the action of a baseball pitching, which involves not only velocity and angle of your arm, but imparting spin via motion of the fingers? We have far more independent and flexible muscles and joints in the arm (let alone the whole body) than we do in a finger or even a set of fingers. If motion tracking were extremely accurate (more so than the best I've used thus far, and far more than was present for Wii Sports, his example of the essential pinnacle of motion gaming), there are some actions you could model far more accurately, responsively, and/or intuitively by tracking movements of the body than by using combinations of fingers.
I'm not saying that all games would benefit from this type of control. In fact, I think far fewer games benefit from it than are made using it currently. I really don't want to see most of the kinds of games we currently play using controllers, and that are well suited to controllers, switching to motion controls.
'Motion gaming' is still a worthwhile genre and pursuit though. As a personal example, if EA made a new Boom Blox that took advantage of a more accurate controller (whether that be some successor to Move or Kinect or Wiimote), I would be all over it. Pushing buttons and watching characters do things on screen is fun. So is throwing things. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
If Valve doesn't want to pursue that type of gaming, that doesn't bother me in the slightest. If Microsoft focused less on Kinect, I wouldn't mind. But I think it would be awful if the entire industry gave it up. We need more and wider gaming markets at this point, and there is a market for motion gaming, even if any one or 15 of us as individuals aren't interested in it.
outunderthestars
Banned
I'm pretty sure you do not. There was no Steam for OtherOS. The only Steam-related thing Valve did on PS3 was overlay support in Portal 2.
Ravensmash
Member
I sadly see this thing bombing, I just feel like it's trying to create a demand or a niche where one doesn't exist.
For it to be powerful enough to run a wide selection at a decent spec it's going to be expensive, for a system targeted more towards indie games then it's competing with every laptop/desktop sold in the past few years. Couple that with next gen consoles being announced and launched, and I think that it may have come too late....i dunno, hope I'm wrong I guess.
I mean really though, someone explain the purpose of a Steam Box other than a more closed way of playing the games that people already have access to?
For it to be powerful enough to run a wide selection at a decent spec it's going to be expensive, for a system targeted more towards indie games then it's competing with every laptop/desktop sold in the past few years. Couple that with next gen consoles being announced and launched, and I think that it may have come too late....i dunno, hope I'm wrong I guess.
I mean really though, someone explain the purpose of a Steam Box other than a more closed way of playing the games that people already have access to?
I wish he would expand on that point but you have to remember this is a guy who made his fortune working on Windows at Microsoft. It's interesting even without context.
Windows 8 was like this giant sadness. It just hurts everybody in the PC business. -Gabe Newell
I mean that's just brutal.
Oh God, source please?
I've been waiting on something like it for a long time. It was my primary reason for considering an X51 but something official from Valve would be so great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d6yBHDvKUw
Project Shield makes far more sense than the Steambox does now. I can't see a big market for Valve's SFF PCs when SFF PCs have existed for years. I certainly don't need another Gaming PC. What I need is away to pipe it into my TV downstairs without moving it and then it'll get far more play time.
That's from the CLANG kickstarter video:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/260688528/clang
Probably the best kickstarter promo video of all time.
NaM
Does not have twelve inches...
It's very obvious from a business standpoint. Other forms of personal computing have not only emerged but people are actually using them. Microsoft has tried to catch up but no one wants to use a Windows phone or a Windows tablet. Microsoft feels that this is because they are unfamiliar with the interface. Microsoft knows that their days are numbered in regards to ruling the desktop. I am not saying OSX or Linux will overtake the desktop market or really even take a sizable chunk. More and more people are skipping PC for other forms of personal computing; Microsoft wants this to be their product (logical I know) so by forcing people to be familiar with their interface they believe people will choose to buy their other products because they are already familiar with it.
Whether that will work or not is debatable. The biggest issue is IT departments will NOT switch to Windows 8 (at the moment anyway) just for the simple fact that the interface is changed and CURRENTLY there are no Group Policy settings to remove it (hacks don't count) it costs way too much to have to re-train their employees to use a computer.
As far as valve creating a competitive operating system it isn't very hard for them to do. It obviously will be Linux based; you play games, browse the internet and watch media, how much more complex do you need it to be? The code is already written, Valve isn't exactly reinventing the wheel here nor do they have to.
I hope you guys realize we could be witnessing the beginning of the future of gaming with this and the Rift. The fact that they're all concerned with latency makes me happy, too.
EDIT: By "this," I mean more the focus on bringing gaming to the living room and streamlining the experience into something super convenient coupled with the fact that some of the world's top minds are working like crazy on it than the Steambox in particular.
EDIT: By "this," I mean more the focus on bringing gaming to the living room and streamlining the experience into something super convenient coupled with the fact that some of the world's top minds are working like crazy on it than the Steambox in particular.
Mikey Jr.
Member
Pretty terrible. For precision its probably good, but look how he constantly has to take his thumb off and readjust to move the camera. It would probably take double the time to see behind you than with a normal stick.
outunderthestars
Banned
Don't we already have that with consoles though?
Exactly which is why Steambox will only ever be a niche product. The enthusiasts will continuing building PCs, the casuals will continue buying consoles, a few people in the middle will pick up a Steambox. It'll be entertaining to see how Average Joe handles a Steambox with a messed up Linux install. I think he'd be better off with a set and forget console myself.
Technosteve
Banned
is he talking about ir tracking that vinny used in the eurotruck sim quick look?
Haint
Member
Wow, shame to hear they've apparently abandoned pointer based solutions. Going forward, I have less than zero interest in continuing to play FPS/TPS/Anything-Aiming-Based with dual analog or deriviatives. It's an awful scheme that's simply not enjoyable to use and 9 times out of 10 winds up playing the games for you with assists and auto-aim.
Felix Lighter
Member
That's TrackIR, which is for head tracking using a sensor and a set of infrared leds that you put on a head set or hat. I believe Gabe was talking about eye tracking which would be a little different.
TrackIR Explained
The chances of this thing having a "messed up install" are about as high as one occuring on the Xbox 360 or the PS3. What are you even talking about?