• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Vergil teased for DMC4:SE! (Also, DmC Definitive Edition trailer)

oh man, just remembered how you had to get all those damn red orbs to get S-Ranks

who thought that was a good idea...so many benches/chairs in that church...
 
oh man, just remembered how you had to get all those damn red orbs to get S-Ranks

who thought that was a good idea...so many benches/chairs in that church...

And they respawned. There were, like 4 missions in that church and you had to destroy those damn pews every time.
 
It's possible. One theory I have is that DMC4 was going to be the first Capcom game with DLC. It was right around the time when cosmetic DLC was making it's way onto consoles and there was huge resistance. Oblivion horse armor was hitting around the same time.

could be, would be quite drastic to not release some cheap DLC if that was the case, like why not finish working on it instead of moving Itsuno to Dragons Dogma/DmC inmediately?

when we get more info on the SE it will be interesting, like some interviews.

I just can't enjoy the color palate in this game
.There is the red level, the blue level, the green level, the yellow level with the flashy lights and the shadows and the main character and the black enemies made of goo..
Their use of color is an insult to your eyes.
 
It's possible. One theory I have is that DMC4 was going to be the first Capcom game with DLC. It was right around the time when cosmetic DLC was making it's way onto consoles and there was huge resistance. Oblivion horse armor was hitting around the same time.

Might explain why DMC4 has a criminally low amount of alternate costumes.
 
It's possible. One theory I have is that DMC4 was going to be the first Capcom game with DLC. It was right around the time when cosmetic DLC was making it's way onto consoles and there was huge resistance. Oblivion horse armor was hitting around the same time.

I dunno. A good portion of the last gen involved Capcom having no clear "answer" towards how they'd handle DLC.

I think if an expansion was planned (and based on a number of Koba's teases in some interviews around that time, I'd say it was in the realm of feasibility), it probably still would have been a disc expansion. But I'd wager between the likes of RE5 and RE6, as well as Dragon's Dogma, whatever plans they may have intended at one point likely got benched in favor of these bigger productions, which got the manpower, instead.

In any case, it certainly would be interesting if there was any leftovers from DMC4's dev that could be included in 4SE this time around.
 
I do wonder if the hype for DMC4:SE overshadowing DmC:DE's initial announcement is why we aren't getting anymore info until after DmC:DE is out... hmmm, and a recent response from Greg on Capcom Unity definitely makes it sound like that's the case. Unless Capcom Japan has plans they aren't sharing...
 
I do wonder if the hype for DMC4:SE overshadowing DmC:DE's initial announcement is why we aren't getting anymore info until after DmC:DE is out... hmmm, and a recent response from Greg on Capcom Unity definitely makes it sound like that's the case. Unless Capcom Japan has plans they aren't sharing...

That's almost definitely the case. I'm pretty sure the only reason they even announced DMC4SE simultaneously is because if they didn't DmC would get even more hate. As it is all it seems to be receiving now is a lot of indifference.
 
DMC4 as a whole wasn't tested well.
Yeah but as a result, Dante wouldn't have been as much I a broken mess that he is.It worked out for the better
I cheesed the FUUUUUUUUUUCK out of that Bloody Palace finale. I failed many damn times getting all 100 levels and flopping trying to style.
Just learn the enemy patterns and master Dante. You can complete Bloody Palace in about 30 minutes
Might explain why DMC4 has a criminally low amount of alternate costumes.
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if we do get additional costumes or characters other than Vergil. I'm pretty excited thinking about it.
 
The biggest thing I've taken away from the last page of this thread is that (high-quality) action games tend to have pretty consistently great soundtracks.
 
And it still manages to be better designed than a lot of action games out right now.

Funny how things work out.

A lot of what's great about DMC4's combat is stuff that might well be accidental, like the way that momentum can be manipulated.

But yeah, I mean, good combat design isn't about anticipating every single crazy combo someone might pull off, it's about leaving enough room to make it possible.
 
Bayonetta feels more like a viewtiful joe in 3d than dmc, and I hate those god of war inspired bosses, well hate is a strong word, but really I think dmc games were great with the mid sized bosses.

Also are those bandages on vergil's right hand or just his gloves? The lighting makes it look like bandages.

Every color in the background image, other than the blue coat, is washed out to grayscale, so I think the color gradient of brown leather gloves is just misrepresented.
 
A lot of what's great about DMC4's combat is stuff that might well be accidental, like the way that momentum can be manipulated.

But yeah, I mean, good combat design isn't about anticipating every single crazy combo someone might pull off, it's about leaving enough room to make it possible.

The end result is accidental, but it stems from a very deliberate attention to detail and an intimate understanding of movement and potential. It's the same thing in fighting games like Marvel. Capcom didn't realize what people were going to be able to do with Dante in that game either, but they gave him tools with unique and expansive properties so players could get to work on experimenting.
 
The end result is accidental, but it stems from a very deliberate attention to detail and an intimate understanding of movement and potential. It's the same thing in fighting games like Marvel. Capcom didn't realize what people were going to be able to do with Dante in that game either, but they gave him tools with unique and expansive properties so players could get to work on experimenting.

Totally, yeah. You can leave room for player improvisation and still get crap results if you don't have a truly solid foundation. I'm not trying to slight the quality of the game design here.
 
Totally, yeah. You can leave room for player improvisation and still get crap results if you don't have a truly solid foundation. I'm not trying to slight the quality of the game design here.

Yeah, the best sandboxes leave room for exploration, experimentation, and creativity. That's always been the strength of DMC. They give you the very best tools and watch what creations spawn from it.
 
Time for MGR to leave all the other OSTs behind.

What can you, say it has to be this way.

And it still manages to be better designed than a lot of action games out right now.

Funny how things work out.

Mmmmm yes but there's a reason why. Mechanics/gameplay.
The same with any game that uses mechanics to this degree(see fighting games). Why is that 13 years on still consider Smash Melee and SF3: Third Strike to be the best fighting games made? Because of the mechanics. They work. They work really infact. But that's where games like this will never get old, because they're completely based on gameplay rather than graphics, stories and such. The Order 1886 will become dated in the next 5 years but Melee will still be strong. This also applies to DMC4; a game based on it's mechanics. DMC4 will never get old because it's gameplay is so finely tuned that it's hard to top.

A lot of what's great about DMC4's combat is stuff that might well be accidental, like the way that momentum can be manipulated.

But yeah, I mean, good combat design isn't about anticipating every single crazy combo someone might pull off, it's about leaving enough room to make it possible.

Jump cancelling was an unintended glitch in DMC3.

Yeah, the best sandboxes leave room for exploration, experimentation, and creativity. That's always been the strength of DMC. They give you the very best tools and watch what creations spawn from it.

The thing is, not many people do. I mean, there was that thread about "person beats DMC4 boss without touching the ground" only last month. 7 years after DMC4 people still don't know about this and are amazed at something that people have done for years. The creations come from those who are dedicated and know how to actually play DMC/Bayonetta etc etc.
 
Jump cancelling was an unintended glitch in DMC3.

Stuff like this isn't unusual in games, especially for Capcom.

Combos were also a glitch in Street Fighter at first.

When developing what would be become Street Fighter II, producer Noritaka Funamizu noticed that there was a glitch that would let you sneak in two punches as part of the same move. He discovered it during the car-smashing bonus stage, also known as the best damn bonus stage ever.

The bug took perfect timing and let players sneak in a couple of extra hits, which was important because this was a multi-player game. If gamers fighting against each other could exploit this, they could string together several hits without the opponent being able to respond.

Noritaka left the bug in the game because he figured it'd be too difficult for players to pull off anyway (the rest of the development team didn't even know about it). But he underestimated the dedication and, quite frankly, insanity of competitive fighting game players, and soon these "combo" attacks became all the rage.

Starting with Super Street Fighter II (one of what would turn out to be many, many iterations of the game), the bug became official. The game started keeping track and rewarding a higher score for these combination attacks. It added a completely different dynamic to the game -- specifically the ability to instantly come from behind in a fight that seemed lost, by stringing together an insane combo

http://www.cracked.com/article_1926...-invented-modern-gaming_p2.html#ixzz3RNYDpy7v
 
Sorry but, fuckin' Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance. ... Metal Gear Rising, man. METAL GEAR RISING.
It's that good Rules of Nature has it's own meme.

True words here. I'm reminded of the GT video where they were ranking songs from the various Metal Gear OSTs, picking the absolute best ones. They basically started the video saying that MGR is out of the count, because the whole ilst would be filled with MGR songs if it was included.
 
The thing is, not many people do. I mean, there was that thread about "person beats DMC4 boss without touching the ground" only last month. 7 years after DMC4 people still don't know about this and are amazed at something that people have done for years. The creations come from those who are dedicated and know how to actually play DMC/Bayonetta etc etc.

I don't even mean from a high level perspective, though. DMC is just a wonderful combat sandbox. When a player first realizes what they can string together with weapon switching for the first time, it borders on giddiness. Maybe they'll never go beyond that, but they'll still approach things differently and with a sense of free control that is seldom afforded in action games.

The fact that a lot of people don't know half of the mechanics in DMC is just a testament to the fountain of depth that the series has, and the limitless potential it has to offer you as a player.
 
The thing is, not many people do. I mean, there was that thread about "person beats DMC4 boss without touching the ground" only last month. 7 years after DMC4 people still don't know about this and are amazed at something that people have done for years. The creations come from those who are dedicated and know how to actually play DMC/Bayonetta etc etc.

The fact that a lot of people don't know half of the mechanics in DMC is just a testament to the fountain of depth that the series has, and the limitless potential it has to offer you as a player.

And that much stems mostly from what we talked about several pages ago: these games (much like most competitive fighting games) don't do the best job teaching the player about everything that they're capable of on even a middle-tier level of understanding, let alone something more advanced.

Granted, because these games are the bottomless sandboxes they are, it'd be hard for the dev to really plot out exactly what could be feasible. And I'm sure any scene that could form around the game would likely be better suited to help teach new players, share new tech and the like (especially if PS4 share works well with a future DMC).

But I guess I'm just saying, even MonHun4G/4U did a better job of helping to make things much less obtuse for newcomers via available/comprehensive in-game tutorial, and it just helped make for a much better understanding. Even the reviewers seem to "get it", now.
 
But I guess I'm just saying, even MonHun4G/4U did a better job of helping to make things much less obtuse for newcomers via available/comprehensive in-game tutorial, and it just helped make for a much better understanding. Even the reviewers seem to "get it", now.

Common now, MH isn't anywhere close to DMC when it comes to mechanics depth and finger gymnastics.

It's much easier to explain that series.
 
And that much stems mostly from what we talked about several pages ago: these games (much like most competitive fighting games) don't do the best job teaching the player about everything that they're capable of on even a middle-tier level of understanding, let alone something more advanced.

Granted, because these games are the bottomless sandboxes they are, it'd be hard for the dev to really plot out exactly what could be feasible. And I'm sure any scene that could form around the game would likely be better suited to help teach new players, share new tech and the like (especially if PS4 share works well with a future DMC).

But I guess I'm just saying, even MonHun4G/4U did a better job of helping to make things much less obtuse for newcomers via available/comprehensive in-game tutorial, and it just helped make for a much better understanding. Even the reviewers seem to "get it", now.

Yea, this is the same problem faced by fighting game tutorials. Other than Skullgirls and BlazBlue, tutorials in fighting games are total ass. And even Skullgirls and BlazBlue only give a cursory overview on the mechanics or mixups, which is less than a solid foundation. Also, as you point out, fighting games, like DMC games, evolve over time and new things become possible with experimentation that weren't even conceivable years before.

Take an early 2008 DMC4 combo video and compare it to one released in 2014.

Take a Top 8 in MvC3 when the game first came out, and compare it to an MvC3 Top 8 in 2014.

And trials and challenge modes in fighting games become obsolete after week 1. I do think something similar to trials and challenges can be used to give an intermediate foundation of the mechanics, which is a lot better than what's currently available.
 
Common now, MH isn't anywhere close to DMC when it comes to mechanics depth and finger gymnastics.

It's much easier to explain that series.

I think it depends on what level of play you're talking about. My knowledge of Monster Hunter isn't especially deep but I get the impression that it at least has a higher barrier to entry, more of a learning curve than any DMC game. The DMC series isn't especially punishing and I don't think even beating DMD mode is unfathomable for a lot of average players.

Now I agree that high-level, creative DMC play is harder to grasp than what Monster Hunter offers. But I don't think that matters very much.
 
I think it depends on what level of play you're talking about. My knowledge of Monster Hunter isn't especially deep but I get the impression that it at least has a higher barrier to entry, more of a learning curve than any DMC game. The DMC series isn't especially punishing and I don't think even beating DMD mode is unfathomable for a lot of average players.

Now I agree that high-level, creative DMC play is harder to grasp than what Monster Hunter offers. But I don't think that matters very much.

MH has depth but it's more the kind where you have to play the game to learn the monsters' tells and patterns.

What your character can do in terms of moves/actions isn't all that complex or numerous, generally speaking.
 
Common now, MH isn't anywhere close to DMC when it comes to mechanics depth.

It's much easier to explain that series.

Sir Ilpalazzo said:
I think it depends on what level of play you're talking about. My knowledge of Monster Hunter isn't especially deep but I get the impression that it at least has a higher barrier to entry, more of a learning curve than any DMC game. The DMC series isn't especially punishing and I don't think even beating DMD mode is unfathomable for a lot of average players.

Now I agree that high-level, creative DMC play is harder to grasp than what Monster Hunter offers. But I don't think that matters very much.

Yep. You'd be surprised how a number of MonHun's intricacies STILL escape the comprehension of the masses, and the initial learning curve usually was more than enough to turn most away. But with MH4G/U, they've apparently finally hit that sweet spot with tutorials that are comprehensive enough that more are seeing that the learning curve isn't all that bad and is just a footstep before you really get into the meat of the game. And that's where I'm coming from.

I mean, let's face it: as this industry requires more from games that are expected to grow an audience by being more "inclusive"? There's really two main ways to go about this when it comes to games that historically have relied more on "git gud" as its way in. Either a) do a better job teaching those base fundamentals, so that newcomers can be in place to to pick up some things for themselves before they join the online community at large (where they can continue to level up their game) or b) "streamline" things so that it's easier for newbies to feel like they're doing awesome things...usually at the cost of the depth at the higher end.

I would certainly prefer more of the former than the latter.

GuardianE said:
Yea, this is the same problem faced by fighting game tutorials. Other than Skullgirls and BlazBlue, tutorials in fighting games are total ass. And even Skullgirls and BlazBlue only give a cursory overview on the mechanics or mixups, which is less than a solid foundation. Also, as you point out, fighting games, like DMC games, evolve over time and new things become possible with experimentation that weren't even conceivable years before.

Take an early 2008 DMC4 combo video and compare it to one released in 2014.

Take a Top 8 in MvC3 when the game first came out, and compare it to an MvC3 Top 8 in 2014.

And trials and challenge modes in fighting games become obsolete after week 1. I do think something similar to trials and challenges can be used to give an intermediate foundation of the mechanics, which is a lot better than what's currently available.

My personal favorite example of a fighting game tutorial done right would still be Virtua Fighter 4's Training Mode. Talk about something that went above and beyond with trying to teach how to play. It'd even taught you things along the lines of "what to do if you missed an input" or "what do to do on block".

That'd be the dream if a stylish action game (or more fighters, in general) could incorporate something like that.
 
Stuff like this isn't unusual in games, especially for Capcom.

Combos were also a glitch in Street Fighter at first.

Yep and I think it's a testament to gaming as a medium. Graphics, sound, GUI etc etc can be outdated, but if the gameplay/mechanics are good, then that alone will keep the series alive and it'll never age. It's why 13 years on Melee is at EVO. It's why 25 years on GAMEAcho is still hugely popular showing SF2: Turbo matches 25 years on after the game came out.
I hate their business practices, but Capcom really have their shit down when it comes to high quality games. Even in Resident Evil(Mercenaries) it has a community that have that study the game the same was as we do with frame data and hitboxes.

The fact that a lot of people don't know half of the mechanics in DMC is just a testament to the fountain of depth that the series has, and the limitless potential it has to offer you as a player.

Yeah indeed. I honestly can't even imagine what will happen to DMC4 once we see Vergil. This is going to be fucking huge.

And that much stems mostly from what we talked about several pages ago: these games (much like most competitive fighting games) don't do the best job teaching the player about everything that they're capable of on even a middle-tier level of understanding, let alone something more advanced.

But that's the thing, you can only teach so much. I cannot praise Tekken Tag 2, Skullgirls and Guilty Gear xRD enough over their tutorials(even SFxT gave you gems to block and do combos for you). They go through every single thing that you'll need to the point that Guilty Gear xRD even shows you how to escape Milia's unblockable/hard-to-blockable, but if you don't have the dedication to learn, you'll forever be stuck in that rut. It's an unpopular opinion of mine but fighting games over the last 5 years have really gone out of their way to make some of the best tutorials that no over genre even does and yet, it's still considered a genre people find hard to learn. Honestly, those games and their tutorials are to be commended for the amount of effort that even myself can find something new about. But fighting game have had this stigma since they came out. Like I said, it's an unpopular opinion but you have to be motivated(no bad Vergil pun intended) to learn these types of mechanics.
To go back to DMC4, nothing was explained but how exactly do you explain a glitch that even the developers didn't know about?

Inertia Rainstorm
Start at:
(Guns) Ebony and Ivory
(Arms) Rebellion

[Use Mega scarecrow to practice]
First switch to Swordmaster > Perform High Rise(hold) > Toggle to Gilgamesh > Perform Full House (on hit) > Toggle to Gunslinger > *Use special attack* immediately. The inertia frames will be active but let Dante perform a rainstorm over the opponent.

That's the most basic version of I.R too. Explaining that? Even to DMC fans? Always worth a try but I think it's to forums and YouTube honestly. Heck, DMC4 team should try for sure, but it'll get overlooked. Keep in mind DMC4 does have mini tutorials on the menu.

Edit:
And trials and challenge modes in fighting games become obsolete after week 1. I do think something similar to trials and challenges can be used to give an intermediate foundation of the mechanics, which is a lot better than what's currently available.

True but missions by default are something nearly every fighting game player ignores. They're great at setting you up for what the character can do but their practicability, use of meter and spacing is generally unfeasible to do in a real match. Plus when you have 3 years to refine Zero May Cry, you see why developers can only spend so long on making missions. The community is always better than the developers.
 
I'm at the breaking point right now. I want to play DMC4 but want to wait to restart it for when SE comes so I've been playing 3 to try and scratch the itch. I don't know if I can hold out much longer. DmC will definitely keep me busy but...ahhhhh.
 
Jump cancelling is not an unintended glitch in DMC3, it's a feature. It was showcased in E3's trailer and also in the game play footage that plays when at the menu. They even balanced Swing in SE to be more jump cancellable.

Inertia isn't a glitch it's a feature. It's supposed to give more physics and momentum to combos although the way people use it with fly guard is definitely unintended.
 
I'm posting again just to book mark.

When can we expect to see uncle Vergil stuff? April?

Hmmm, maybe a SE trailer on April but i hope there'll release some details before the end of March.Hopefully we'll get streams and gameplay videos like they're doing with DE.
 
Jump cancelling is not an unintended glitch in DMC3, it's a feature. It was showcased in E3's trailer and also in the game play footage that plays when at the menu. They even balanced Swing in SE to be more jump cancellable.

Inertia isn't a glitch it's a feature. It's supposed to give more physics and momentum to combos although the way people use it with fly guard is definitely unintended.

OK not a "glitch", but "can be manipulated out of it's intended purpose to perform new moves that then become a core part of the game overall".
 
i don't know how vergil is going to get his yamato back, shit isn't just being shelved at nero's basement or something it's absorbed into his arm.

Every color in the background image, other than the blue coat, is washed out to grayscale, so I think the color gradient of brown leather gloves is just misrepresented.

yeah that's what I thought, the patterns just made it look like bandages, too bad the image is blurred when zoomed out.
 
It's not though.

You can see him hold it in his hand and offer it to Dante at the end.

Yeah, he seems to inexplicably be able to pull it out from his arm whenever he wants, though he needs it for DT. Presumably Nero can pull all kinds of shit out of his arm if that's the case. All the different boss items he received, anyway.
 
I wouldn't look too far into Yamato coming out of Nero's arm. I think that's mostly a gameplay/design related thing so they don't have to show or explain where Yamato is when Nero isn't using it. Yamato magically disappears when Dante isn't using it also
 
Top Bottom