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[VGC] Neil Druckmann says new Naughty Dog title could ‘redefine mainstream perceptions of gaming’

DarthPutin

Member
That moment when you already know quality of comments before clicking the thread
:pie_smirking:

First TLOU definitely played its part in helping gaming get more accepted as serious art form (among other games doing it in various ways, of course). I remember hearing about it from everywhere when I had no interest in gaming. Not sure you can decide to create this kind of moment, it just either happens or not.

Personally, I hope they don't abandon their storytelling focus too much, but perhaps give it a new form. I prefer adult themes and stories, even when I was a child. This constant demand for return of kindergarten aesthetics and brainless action is weird to me.
 
Huh, Druckmann

oXURylR.jpeg
Ded Teletubbie GIF by MOODMAN
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
You're not getting the same type of combat in TLOU 2 just like in Fallout 3. lol

Combat is completely different.

Fallout 3 is dated while games today have trouble competing with TLOU 2 when it comes to realistic combat.
The Office Lol GIF by NETFLIX
Cracking Up Lol GIF by HULU
Captain America Lol GIF by mtv
 
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DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Thats some realism. Ellie makes noise like an airplane swimming, coming out of the water and breathing heavy a a bandit cant hear it all 2 ft away. And when other bandits get shot, their buddies stand and watch.

Most of the clip is Ellie creeping around dark linear paths too which tons of games do.

What you get in LOU (similar to UBI games like SC enemies) is good production values and dialogue where characters are all talking to each other.

Do you mean the clip where she's coming out of the water and the girl is playing her PS Vita with earphones on? Nice catch, there.

They're not flanking in Fallout, they're not calling out for their friends to surround you in nearly the same manner. You can't shoot your enemy in the leg, grab them, and use them as cover.

Saying "this is like other games" because they're going down a dark path is being very disingenuous. lol
 

Guilty_AI

Member
You're not getting the same type of combat in TLOU 2 just like in Fallout 3. lol

Combat is completely different.

Fallout 3 is dated while games today have trouble competing with TLOU 2 when it comes to realistic combat.
tag checks out
 

SHA

Member
He needs to play xy & z of 3rd party games before making a bold statement, I agree on the mainstream part, I disagree the narrow view of it as the whole market.
 

Barakov

Gold Member
neil-druckmann-768x511.jpg







aRDvXvZ.jpeg

Get the fuck out of here. I'm sure it'll have nice graphics, will be a third person shooter, sell a bunch and win several awards but this transforming videogame nonsense that it make all the normies accept gaming as legitimate is nonsense.
 

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
You have to describe what makes TLOU2 combat "so great" first tho
Allow me to direct you to two of my threads doing just that, Im proud of them both :messenger_smirking:

When will a game surpass TLOU 2's combat? The combat feels next gen.


The visceral, intense and fucking brutal combat has yet to be even challenged.

*missing video example*

4 Years into the gen. Releases from several heavy hitters studios, and no one is coming close?

This games combat is just pure insanity, and with the 4K Remaster, its even easier to appreciate, and harder to deny.

If you think another 3rd person shooter game has better combat, you're simply wrong.

This game fucking nails:

- Insane brutality
- Best hit detection in the medium.
- Best animation in the industry, making the 2 things above even more impressive.
- Incredible sound effects
- Perfect FOV
- Brilliant and aggressive AI
- Small visual details that add to the overall combat experience

Look at this fucking insane hit reaction. I shoot his leg, it falls off realistically, he falls to the ground, I shoot his head off - He gargles. FUCK!

*missing video example*


Another example of absolute god tier hit reaction. It REALLY adds to the combat.
I shoot her leg, she falls, holding that same leg in pain, screaming. I shoot her head with a pistol. Ultra real headshot. You CAN SEE HER TOUNGE as the only remaining identifiable feature when I walk in close.

*missing video example*
The camera is super close, making encounters like this way more intense. Again. INSANE hit reaction even in melee combat. Enemies react to every. single. hit. Ellie wipes the blood off her face mid combat, another enemy appears, beautiful hit reaction when I hit it in its neck and it falls to the ground.

*missing video example*
Freaking blood and chunks of flesh falling from the ceiling and walls after I blow someone to bits.


Enemies are aggressive as fuck on higher difficulties. Fluid and beautiful animation just brings it all together.


Small but IMPACTFUL details - The fucking blood splatter colors the rays of light

4xL8oz.gif



I have been playing on Grounded mode with no HUD and .. Good lord..

All gameplay shots below. My own screenshots. Dont mind the PS5 image compression, looks better on my OLED.


You hit a mf in the head with a machete, their head splits right where you hit them. Their body slumps, eyes roll back slowly. Not a QTE. Pure raw gameplay

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129011131.jpg


The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129010630.jpg



Blood splatter all over your hands, look at the intensity on her face. Yes, this adds to the overall combat experience.

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129021126.jpg



Enemies blow up very fucking nicely,

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129031310.jpg



Blood splatter, fantastic facial animations in combat

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240127020704.jpg



Just an untouchable combination of realism, animation, hit reaction, being visceral as fuck, realistic gore, unrivalled intensity, tension, etc.

Its not about the difficulty of stringing some flashy combo together with cookie cutter hit reaction and no substance.

Its about feeling like your character fucking hates the opponent, and anything in their way will get fucking mangled. Feeling like a killing machine, yet a vulnerable one. No other game comes close to putting all of this together, not to mention perfect controls.

And

Straight up... The combat in The Last of Us Part II is completely and entirely unmatched.



but since this is a forum for discussion...

Please name a game that blends as perfectly; intensity, brutality, realism, visceral nature, hit reaction, enemy AI, controls, animation, physics, graphics, NPC voice acting, dialogue and feel as well as this game does. Theres none.

The simplicity of the controls, the verticality of the environments, the feel of the weapons. Perfection. People who despise the story are even praising the combat, its truly special.

That blood spray at 45 seconds in. Jesus christ. When I play other games it feels like im in Day Care.

GOAT combat.

btw theres literally thousands of vids I could have posted this was just one i had saved recently. if you dont like the video just play the game on a high difficulty. :messenger_peace:
 
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bender

What time is it?
Maybe he is talking about backend technology for their game production, but I struggle to see innovation from Naughty Dogs games as their output has always been highly derivative, albeit with high production values and polish.
 

FeralEcho

Member
So it'll be another pile of woke horseshit or just regular woke whoreshit?

Also maybe first show the thing before sniffing your own farts with these statements considering all your contributions this gen have been a remake of a remaster,a remaster of a 4 year old game and a wasted gaas project,if you can't abstain then kindly fuck off mr. Cuckman!
 

Guilty_AI

Member
Allow me to direct you to two of my threads doing just that, Im proud of them both :messenger_smirking:

When will a game surpass TLOU 2's combat? The combat feels next gen.


The visceral, intense and fucking brutal combat has yet to be even challenged.

*missing video example*

4 Years into the gen. Releases from several heavy hitters studios, and no one is coming close?

This games combat is just pure insanity, and with the 4K Remaster, its even easier to appreciate, and harder to deny.

If you think another 3rd person shooter game has better combat, you're simply wrong.

This game fucking nails:

- Insane brutality
- Best hit detection in the medium.
- Best animation in the industry, making the 2 things above even more impressive.
- Incredible sound effects
- Perfect FOV
- Brilliant and aggressive AI
- Small visual details that add to the overall combat experience

Look at this fucking insane hit reaction. I shoot his leg, it falls off realistically, he falls to the ground, I shoot his head off - He gargles. FUCK!

*missing video example*


Another example of absolute god tier hit reaction. It REALLY adds to the combat.
I shoot her leg, she falls, holding that same leg in pain, screaming. I shoot her head with a pistol. Ultra real headshot. You CAN SEE HER TOUNGE as the only remaining identifiable feature when I walk in close.

*missing video example*
The camera is super close, making encounters like this way more intense. Again. INSANE hit reaction even in melee combat. Enemies react to every. single. hit. Ellie wipes the blood off her face mid combat, another enemy appears, beautiful hit reaction when I hit it in its neck and it falls to the ground.

*missing video example*
Freaking blood and chunks of flesh falling from the ceiling and walls after I blow someone to bits.


Enemies are aggressive as fuck on higher difficulties. Fluid and beautiful animation just brings it all together.


Small but IMPACTFUL details - The fucking blood splatter colors the rays of light

4xL8oz.gif



I have been playing on Grounded mode with no HUD and .. Good lord..

All gameplay shots below. My own screenshots. Dont mind the PS5 image compression, looks better on my OLED.


You hit a mf in the head with a machete, their head splits right where you hit them. Their body slumps, eyes roll back slowly. Not a QTE. Pure raw gameplay

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129011131.jpg


The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129010630.jpg



Blood splatter all over your hands, look at the intensity on her face. Yes, this adds to the overall combat experience.

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129021126.jpg



Enemies blow up very fucking nicely,

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129031310.jpg



Blood splatter, fantastic facial animations in combat

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240127020704.jpg



Just an untouchable combination of realism, animation, hit reaction, being visceral as fuck, realistic gore, unrivalled intensity, tension, etc.

Its not about the difficulty of stringing some flashy combo together with cookie cutter hit reaction and no substance.

Its about feeling like your character fucking hates the opponent, and anything in their way will get fucking mangled. Feeling like a killing machine, yet a vulnerable one. No other game comes close to putting all of this together, not to mention perfect controls.

And

Straight up... The combat in The Last of Us Part II is completely and entirely unmatched.



but since this is a forum for discussion...

Please name a game that blends as perfectly; intensity, brutality, realism, visceral nature, hit reaction, enemy AI, controls, animation, physics, graphics, NPC voice acting, dialogue and feel as well as this game does. Theres none.

The simplicity of the controls, the verticality of the environments, the feel of the weapons. Perfection. People who despise the story are even praising the combat, its truly special.

That blood spray at 45 seconds in. Jesus christ. When I play other games it feels like im in Day Care.

GOAT combat.

btw theres literally thousands of vids I could have posted this was just one i had saved recently. if you dont like the video just play the game on a high difficulty. :messenger_peace:

So many words yet almost nothing was said. It's always the same story whenever i hear someone praising the combat of this game.

At most, all that i can gather is that game has nice animations and gore effects since you spend half of the time talking about those.
 

near

Gold Member
Man all the people in the Reee thread going "AI bad waah!!" without understanding how it could be use to improve things.
Fuck Ree and fuck AI technology in gaming if it is used in the way Druckmann suggests here:

"With AI, your creativity sets the limits. Understanding art history, composition, and storytelling is essential for effective direction. Tools evolve quickly—Some tools once essential, now are obsolete," he said. "At Naughty Dog, we transitioned from hand-animating Jak and Daxter to using motion capture in Uncharted, significantly enhancing our storytelling. AI will allow us to create nuanced dialogues and characters, expanding creative possibilities. However, it's crucial to precisely direct these tools to achieve the intended outcomes."

Though I suppose AI could’ve written a better script than the one Halley Gross wrote for TLoU2. lololol
 
Allow me to direct you to two of my threads doing just that, Im proud of them both :messenger_smirking:

When will a game surpass TLOU 2's combat? The combat feels next gen.


The visceral, intense and fucking brutal combat has yet to be even challenged.

*missing video example*

4 Years into the gen. Releases from several heavy hitters studios, and no one is coming close?

This games combat is just pure insanity, and with the 4K Remaster, its even easier to appreciate, and harder to deny.

If you think another 3rd person shooter game has better combat, you're simply wrong.

This game fucking nails:

- Insane brutality
- Best hit detection in the medium.
- Best animation in the industry, making the 2 things above even more impressive.
- Incredible sound effects
- Perfect FOV
- Brilliant and aggressive AI
- Small visual details that add to the overall combat experience

Look at this fucking insane hit reaction. I shoot his leg, it falls off realistically, he falls to the ground, I shoot his head off - He gargles. FUCK!

*missing video example*


Another example of absolute god tier hit reaction. It REALLY adds to the combat.
I shoot her leg, she falls, holding that same leg in pain, screaming. I shoot her head with a pistol. Ultra real headshot. You CAN SEE HER TOUNGE as the only remaining identifiable feature when I walk in close.

*missing video example*
The camera is super close, making encounters like this way more intense. Again. INSANE hit reaction even in melee combat. Enemies react to every. single. hit. Ellie wipes the blood off her face mid combat, another enemy appears, beautiful hit reaction when I hit it in its neck and it falls to the ground.

*missing video example*
Freaking blood and chunks of flesh falling from the ceiling and walls after I blow someone to bits.


Enemies are aggressive as fuck on higher difficulties. Fluid and beautiful animation just brings it all together.


Small but IMPACTFUL details - The fucking blood splatter colors the rays of light

4xL8oz.gif



I have been playing on Grounded mode with no HUD and .. Good lord..

All gameplay shots below. My own screenshots. Dont mind the PS5 image compression, looks better on my OLED.


You hit a mf in the head with a machete, their head splits right where you hit them. Their body slumps, eyes roll back slowly. Not a QTE. Pure raw gameplay

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129011131.jpg


The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129010630.jpg



Blood splatter all over your hands, look at the intensity on her face. Yes, this adds to the overall combat experience.

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129021126.jpg



Enemies blow up very fucking nicely,

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129031310.jpg



Blood splatter, fantastic facial animations in combat

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240127020704.jpg



Just an untouchable combination of realism, animation, hit reaction, being visceral as fuck, realistic gore, unrivalled intensity, tension, etc.

Its not about the difficulty of stringing some flashy combo together with cookie cutter hit reaction and no substance.

Its about feeling like your character fucking hates the opponent, and anything in their way will get fucking mangled. Feeling like a killing machine, yet a vulnerable one. No other game comes close to putting all of this together, not to mention perfect controls.

And

Straight up... The combat in The Last of Us Part II is completely and entirely unmatched.



but since this is a forum for discussion...

Please name a game that blends as perfectly; intensity, brutality, realism, visceral nature, hit reaction, enemy AI, controls, animation, physics, graphics, NPC voice acting, dialogue and feel as well as this game does. Theres none.

The simplicity of the controls, the verticality of the environments, the feel of the weapons. Perfection. People who despise the story are even praising the combat, its truly special.

That blood spray at 45 seconds in. Jesus christ. When I play other games it feels like im in Day Care.

GOAT combat.

btw theres literally thousands of vids I could have posted this was just one i had saved recently. if you dont like the video just play the game on a high difficulty. :messenger_peace:

Meh. The Last of Us 2 combat is so over the top and automated it is like an easy fatality in Mortal Kombat 1. Days Gone is far more interesting and gives greater control. Even old ass Resident Evil 3 is more engaging in its combat than this wankery.
 
Last edited:
Fuck Ree and fuck AI technology in gaming if it is used in the way Druckmann suggests here:

"With AI, your creativity sets the limits. Understanding art history, composition, and storytelling is essential for effective direction. Tools evolve quickly—Some tools once essential, now are obsolete," he said. "At Naughty Dog, we transitioned from hand-animating Jak and Daxter to using motion capture in Uncharted, significantly enhancing our storytelling. AI will allow us to create nuanced dialogues and characters, expanding creative possibilities. However, it's crucial to precisely direct these tools to achieve the intended outcomes."

Though I suppose AI could’ve written a better script than the one Halley Gross wrote for TLoU2. lololol
Would it be any worse than what the DEI writers write?
 

ungalo

Member
So many words yet almost nothing was said. It's always the same story whenever i hear someone praising the combat of this game.

At most, all that i can gather is that game has nice animations and gore effects since you spend half of the time talking about those.
It's almost scary like people don't even know what gameplay is anymore. Best gameplay has suddenly become best gun feel and visual feedback.

10 years of shallow/brainless AAA led us here. And then people are saying old games have aged without even understanding their internal logic. For real, most solo players have become incapable of even assessing what make a game rich or deep in its mechanics.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Jesus the hate for this guy is a bit much, it's fucking Naughty Dog ffs, easily top 5 most respected, most talented game studio on the planet and y'all dumping on him like he's the guy responsible for Gollem
Even if you want to ignore the impact this guy's games have had on the industry (for better or worse) he's not put out a single game for 4 years. People are getting impatient and antsy- it's natural when your last released game was at the start of the PS5 gen.
 

T-0800

Member
How about a Joel and Tommy Last of Us set well before the first game. Throw in the MP from 1 with new maps while you're at it.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Every single Druckmann directed game (TLOU, UC4 and TLOU2) has outsold every single Kojima directed game. Literally the only reason Kojima is such a big name is because he flashed his name on the screen every 5 seconds and the fact that weebs give him a free pass because they can't understand most of the dumb shit he says, if he was western he'd be treated like David Cage. In reality, output wise he's not even close to being the big dog, even Todd Howard is leagues ahead of that fraud, Skyrim by itself is bigger than his entire catalogue combined.
Skyrim? the most overrated dogshit piece of shit game ever made that was already outclassed by Obsidian's only fallout entry a year prior and Bethesda's 2 elder scrolls games before that? You want to say that Todd Howard, the biggest fraud in gaming history is somehow not just comparable- but surpasses fucking Kojima.

be for fucking real. Metal Gear Solid 1 has produced more impact on the gaming industry in both gameplay and STORY than any Bethesda made title in all of their franchises
 

BlackTron

Gold Member
To be fair, he is talking about redefining mainstream perceptions of gaming, which TLOU1 kinda did. I highly doubt their next title will be as impactful as TLOU though.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
It's almost scary like people don't even know what gameplay is anymore. Best gameplay has suddenly become best gun feel and visual feedback.

10 years of shallow/brainless AAA led us here. And then people are saying old games have aged without even understanding their internal logic. For real, most solo players have become incapable of even assessing what make a game rich or deep in its mechanics.
Just laugh at them. That is what I do. I tried to engage honestly years ago, but they always come up with some excuse on any game you bring up is worse to this. If they wish to live in clown world and never engage in good faith, then treat them like clowns.
 

Porcile

Member
The supposed cream of crop writing talent in Hollywood can't even write a good two hour movie these days. TV has become very formulaic and low-budget. The Wire and The Sopranos are still the golden standard of writing nearly 20 years later. Yet, game writers and directors aren't even at their level. There is certainly very little chance you are going to create some humanity-defining storytelling masterpiece in a 10 hour video game.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
I don’t think it’s fair for any one individual to take the spotlight when it comes to video games, but Kojima has certainly garnered that right. This is the same man who pioneered stealth gameplay mechanics, and was one of the first to truly capture the idea of cinematic gaming, with he’s overtly long cutscenes and cinema tropes.
with my previous reply in mind though Kojima's impact on Sony games has been more damaging than it has been good considering that every creator who tried to replicate his style of cinematic game failed or fell short in one way or another- mostly in focusing too much on the "cinematic" aspect of cinematic game
Allow me to direct you to two of my threads doing just that, Im proud of them both :messenger_smirking:

When will a game surpass TLOU 2's combat? The combat feels next gen.


The visceral, intense and fucking brutal combat has yet to be even challenged.

*missing video example*

4 Years into the gen. Releases from several heavy hitters studios, and no one is coming close?

This games combat is just pure insanity, and with the 4K Remaster, its even easier to appreciate, and harder to deny.

If you think another 3rd person shooter game has better combat, you're simply wrong.

This game fucking nails:

- Insane brutality
- Best hit detection in the medium.
- Best animation in the industry, making the 2 things above even more impressive.
- Incredible sound effects
- Perfect FOV
- Brilliant and aggressive AI
- Small visual details that add to the overall combat experience

Look at this fucking insane hit reaction. I shoot his leg, it falls off realistically, he falls to the ground, I shoot his head off - He gargles. FUCK!

*missing video example*


Another example of absolute god tier hit reaction. It REALLY adds to the combat.
I shoot her leg, she falls, holding that same leg in pain, screaming. I shoot her head with a pistol. Ultra real headshot. You CAN SEE HER TOUNGE as the only remaining identifiable feature when I walk in close.

*missing video example*
The camera is super close, making encounters like this way more intense. Again. INSANE hit reaction even in melee combat. Enemies react to every. single. hit. Ellie wipes the blood off her face mid combat, another enemy appears, beautiful hit reaction when I hit it in its neck and it falls to the ground.

*missing video example*
Freaking blood and chunks of flesh falling from the ceiling and walls after I blow someone to bits.


Enemies are aggressive as fuck on higher difficulties. Fluid and beautiful animation just brings it all together.


Small but IMPACTFUL details - The fucking blood splatter colors the rays of light

4xL8oz.gif



I have been playing on Grounded mode with no HUD and .. Good lord..

All gameplay shots below. My own screenshots. Dont mind the PS5 image compression, looks better on my OLED.


You hit a mf in the head with a machete, their head splits right where you hit them. Their body slumps, eyes roll back slowly. Not a QTE. Pure raw gameplay

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129011131.jpg


The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129010630.jpg



Blood splatter all over your hands, look at the intensity on her face. Yes, this adds to the overall combat experience.

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129021126.jpg



Enemies blow up very fucking nicely,

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240129031310.jpg



Blood splatter, fantastic facial animations in combat

The-Last-of-Us-Part-II-Remastered-20240127020704.jpg



Just an untouchable combination of realism, animation, hit reaction, being visceral as fuck, realistic gore, unrivalled intensity, tension, etc.

Its not about the difficulty of stringing some flashy combo together with cookie cutter hit reaction and no substance.

Its about feeling like your character fucking hates the opponent, and anything in their way will get fucking mangled. Feeling like a killing machine, yet a vulnerable one. No other game comes close to putting all of this together, not to mention perfect controls.

And

Straight up... The combat in The Last of Us Part II is completely and entirely unmatched.



but since this is a forum for discussion...

Please name a game that blends as perfectly; intensity, brutality, realism, visceral nature, hit reaction, enemy AI, controls, animation, physics, graphics, NPC voice acting, dialogue and feel as well as this game does. Theres none.

The simplicity of the controls, the verticality of the environments, the feel of the weapons. Perfection. People who despise the story are even praising the combat, its truly special.

That blood spray at 45 seconds in. Jesus christ. When I play other games it feels like im in Day Care.

GOAT combat.

btw theres literally thousands of vids I could have posted this was just one i had saved recently. if you dont like the video just play the game on a high difficulty. :messenger_peace:

This is just attention to detail in the combat. That's impressive but it just shows that it's a (very) realistic and responsive combat system. Not that it's the best.

from a gameplay perspective, Resident Evil 4 Remake was a far more fleshed out game in actual combat scenarios and moment to moment gameplay
 
Last edited:

Strategize

Member
So many words yet almost nothing was said. It's always the same story whenever i hear someone praising the combat of this game.

At most, all that i can gather is that game has nice animations and gore effects since you spend half of the time talking about those.
Fine, I'll do it without mentioning how insane the presentation is (which is indeed important to a good combat system btw).

TLOU2's gunplay is essentially flawless for what it wants to achieve, which is to be a useful tool but not dominate the rest of the mechanics so that game becomes a shooting gallery like Gears.

The general loop TLOU2 wants to achieve in it's combat is the following...
Stealth >>> Spotted >>> Shoot >>> Enemies Close Distance >>> Melee/Improvise >>> Enemies Overwhelm >>> You Die/Frantically run away and repeat the cycle.

This is why they showcase the game this way instead of simply doing a demo where Ellie just casually owns everyone. Yes, this demo is scripted, but it does reflect the general loop of the final game very well.


Scrappy Desperation. The A.I, Level Design, Weapon and resource balancing, gunplay, movement, everything is built to push that feeling.

This is why the game, except one weapon at the end of the game, only has single shot weapons. Why weapon sway is enabled. Why you get knocked to the ground after the getting shot. Why you can't carry that much ammo or resources. Why there's no cover button. And it's also why the game imo, simply doesn't work on lower difficulties (this includes normal), all that work on careful balancing and smart design choices is destroyed in favor of almost unlimited ammo and health, destroying said loop. The more you make the game a shooting gallery the worse it becomes, because while the game is playable as a shooting gallery, the mechanics aren't built for it specifically.

What makes the game incredibly impressive from a design standpoint is that it manages to create this tension and scrappy desperation while still allowing a remarkable amount of freedom in movement and in scope in levels. I believe ND called TLOU's combat back in 2012 "a balance of power", this is a perfect description because it manages to make the player feeling both vulnerable and impowered in the same encounter most of the time. They didn't fully achieve this with Part 1, but did with Part 2.

Compare and think about how alot of survival games create tension, by removing player moblity and making enemies bulletsponges instead. Thus, Resident Evil (yes even 4) is too limiting, MSGV is too freeing removing any real challenge unless self enforced, while TLOU2 has the middle ground nothing else has achieved.
 
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ProtoByte

Member
Theres nothing groundbreaking in that clip at all.
I'm going to mostly ignore your ridiculous Fallout 3 comparison, but in response to this: We know. Good luck "breaking new ground" in videogames circa 2020, and definitely now.
Neil Druckmann is aware of this too. In the Grounded documentary for TLOU2, he specifically says (paraphrasing): "None of these things by themselves are new, it's the combination of all of these things at this level of production that makes the game special."

But LOU has top notch production values.
Which matters. There are a ton of devs who have similar funding to Naughty Dog who are not able to make the most of it in a tangible way to the same extent in gameplay.
This idea that "lol production values" is just money that has no impact is ridiculous. At the end of the day, most people here by consoles or expensive PC parts to play games with higher than average production values.

So many words yet almost nothing was said. It's always the same story whenever i hear someone praising the combat of this game.

At most, all that i can gather is that game has nice animations and gore effects since you spend half of the time talking about those.
You're asking a layman to explain game design of a TPS. Exactly what would you expect him to say that would somehow satisfy you? How about you play it for yourself?

All I can say is that the gameplay weaves together almost everything you could want for its genre in concert. The environments are visually nice, yes - but their layouts and components have an impact on player and enemy choices and behavior. Elevation, density, cover, and resources all interplay for how players engage in head-head combat or stealth - the two of which flow seamlessly in and out of each other. Enemies behave very well to what the player does.
The sound and visual quality do actually have an impact considering that you need to be paying attention to what's around you, or you'll get caught or rocked.
 

tmlDan

Member
This is just attention to detail in the combat. That's impressive but it just shows that it's a (very) realistic and responsive combat system. Not that it's the best.

from a gameplay perspective, Resident Evil 4 Remake was a far more fleshed out game in actual combat scenarios and moment to moment gameplay
I honestly can't take you seriously if you think RE4 Remake is better. It's just not, it's not as visceral, its stagnant.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
I honestly can't take you seriously if you think RE4 Remake is better. It's just not, it's not as visceral, its stagnant.
i like combat where you do stuff and strategize rather than watch the gore effects. especially considering that not everyone is happy to see virtual humans get torn apart in increasingly brutal and sadistic ways- especially with the detail on display. Lot easier to take your mind off the carnage you're seeing when you're killing demons or parasites or zombies
 

Humdinger

Gold Member
Well, I'm just glad he's not investing their energies in TLOU3. Let that one sit on the back burner. I support him moving to a new, different project.

I will be interested to see what he reveals, when the time comes. I'm not too hopeful, though. I have grown tired of the "cinematic" approach to gaming - you know, 6 to 8 hours of motion-captured cutscenes. I think that's what he's talking about, when he says the game will "change mainstream perceptions of gaming." He means it will make people in the movie industry respect gaming more, because his game will be more like a movie - er, excuse me, Cinema. But I don't want games to become interactive movies. If I wanted to watch a movie, I'd watch a movie. There are hundreds of great movies and very few great "cinematic" games.
 
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