Support NeoGAF

[Lord Error]

Buy two Nextboxen, incest them through the HDMI-in, double da graffix.

You're maybe joking, but that would not be completely impossible. It is after all how GT5 was running in 4K resolution, running on 4 PS3s daisychained together. You'd need something beside HDMI cable to connect them for synchronization though. Not sure if USB or network cable would be enough or if you'd need some kind of custom connector.

 

[oversitting]

I think the best meltdown potential of all time would be if Microsoft announced that Xbox Live gamerscores were going to be reset with the release of the next Xbox.

OMFG this would make internet history. I actually would love to see this happen just from all the rage that would be released from so many people.

 

[oversitting]

You're maybe joking, but that would not be completely impossible. It is after all how GT5 was running in 4K resolution, running on 4 PS3s daisychained together. You'd need something beside HDMI cable to connect them for synchronization though. Not sure if USB or network cable would be enough or if you'd need some kind of custom connector.

they do it with kinect 2.0

 

[coldfoot]

I think the best meltdown potential of all time would be if Microsoft announced that Xbox Live gamerscores were going to be reset with the release of the next Xbox.

That's very possible to give an even playing field for people who did not get a 360 last gen. Or maybe make 720 games 10000 points instead of 1000 so that you're encouraged to jump on the new platform. Likewise, Sony might choose to upgrade the level of trophies on a game in the PS4 version compared to the PS3 version, so that you could get multiple platinums in one PS4 game and a new über-platinum (diamond??) trophy that's one per game.

 

[Karak]

Or dump gamerscore all together.

 

[nib95]

Karak, to redeem yourself you need to find out from your source what the bloody hell the data move engines are or what they do!

 

[Karak]

Karak, to redeem yourself you need to find our from your source what the bloody hell the data move engines are or what they do!

I don't really feel the need to redeem myself. I feel that the dates and leaks I have posted about have all come to pass. Though perhaps not juicy enough for some. If something seems amiss that is just life but I will continue to post the stuff I get

As for the data move engines. They probably...move data...around and shit.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Or make a second score, "720Score: 0", "Xbox 360 Score: 1"

 

[FuturusX]

We should also consider that this will be a longer than usual release cycle, so naturally it also feels like we should get that same bleeding edge we have accustomed to given the extended wait.

But clearly the traditional strategy was not a winning one last time around. Too much money was lost in a race for second. The same approach cannot be justified. Control innovation and services will be the leading driver. I'd argue that not even AAA games will be at the leading edge of the focus for MS and Sony. I'm not suggesting an abandonment of hardcore gaming but there will be parity with other services for sure. Interests besides gaming have been become just as important. That's the reality.

The arms race has cooled. We are in different kind of conflict now. This is not your father's Playstation/Xbox.

We will however, regardless of relative GPU power and memory bandwidth, get to play a handful of truly great games on all platforms. Remarkable games that will live long in our memories.

I am excited even though I lament for the old days of pure cutting edge. The gaming world has changed time to embrace it.

 

[Karak]

We should also consider that this will be a longer than usual release cycle, so naturally it also feels like we should get that same bleeding edge we have accustomed to given the extended wait.

But clearly the traditional strategy was not a winning one last time around. Too much money was lost in a race for second. The same approach cannot be justified. Control innovation and services will be the leading driver. I'd argue that not even AAA games will be at the leading edge of the focus for MS and Sony. I'm not suggesting an abandonment of hardcore gaming but there will be parity with other services for sure. Interests besides gaming have been become just as important. That's the reality.

The arms race has cooled. We are in different kind of conflict now. This is not your father's Playstation/Xbox.

We will however, regardless of relative GPU power and memory bandwidth, get to play a handful of truly great games on all platforms. Remarkable games that will live long in our memories.

I am excited even though I lament for the old days of pure cutting edge. The gaming world has changed time to embrace it.

I don't know. At least for the first year it seems both companies are aiming for serious IP's. Sony as always and MS opening studios everywhere. Guess those could all be Kinect and move games though

 

[nib95]

I don't really feel the need to redeem myself. I feel that the dates and leaks I have posted about have all come to pass. Though perhaps not juicy enough for some. If something seems amiss that is just life but I will continue to post the stuff I get

As for the data move engines. They probably...move data...around and shit.

The last bit of info you were supposed to leak you never did. You kept going on about how you needed to better understand it, but never explained why or what you had to understand. You essentially kept shrugging it off until this article was posted and then everyone forgot about your impending leak.

In future if you really do have info, but don't understand it, just post it and GAF detectives or devs can do the rest.

 

[Karak]

The last bit of info you were supposed to leak you never did. You kept going on about how you needed to better understand it, but never explained why or what you had to understand. You essentially kept shrugging it off until this article was posted and then everyone forgot about your impending leak.

In future if you really do have info, but don't understand it, just post it and GAF detectives or devs can do the rest.

Next time I just won't post beforehand about anything I am working on or have. As I have done in the past.

 

[Karma]

Karak, to redeem yourself you need to find out from your source what the bloody hell the data move engines are or what they do!

They clearly move data between the 360 chipset and the new chipset.

 

[MCD]

Shame that Bluetooth isn't listed in the picture. Thought MS would go all BT next gen considering how their latest mouse and keyboards are all BT.

 

[nib95]

Next time I just won't post beforehand about anything I am working on or have. As I have done in the past.

Yes that would be better. No unnecessary hype or expectations then. Or disappointment if nothing does get posted in the end.

 

[Globox_82]

They couldn't fit everything that was inside the server tower into a console.

Pure math.

and sony was? care to elaborate?

 

[oversitting]

and sony was? care to elaborate?

hes trolling

 

[Piggus]

Which console was 15-20x last gen? Maybe if you're comparing the weakest last gen (DC) to the strongest current gen (PS3), but visually it was an 8x increase from Xbox/Gamecube.

Ugh, I don't know why people even use arbitrary numbers to describe the jump in visuals. Where do you even come up with a number like 8x? In terms of raw processing power I get it, but trying to turn the real world jump in visuals into a single number is meaningless. Because an "8x" increase in visuals has a different meaning depending on who you ask.

To actually describe the move from one generation to another, you have to describe the new technologies introduced, or the refinement of technologies that were already in use. For example, this gen we saw a large increase in geometry detail, the added use of normal mapping, dynamic lighting, significantly more real time shadows, more particles, more physics, better AI, etc. It's practically impossible to put those real-world improvements into some arbitrary number. A number doesn't describe anything.

 

[Hana-Bi]

According to this post from him those were the specs for the alpha kits:

Once again there was a big gulf in terms of alpha kits and beta kits for Durango on paper. The Alpha kits were needed to emulate the final performance of the combined silicon.

Alpha kits were

8 core 16 thread intel CPUs, probably running at 1.6 ghz
12GB of Ram
High end AMD 7000 series >2.5 teraflop GPU

But does this mean, that with the final performance of the combined silicon we would also get there with the leaked specs?

 

[Karak]

Ugh, I don't know why people even use arbitrary numbers to describe the jump in visuals. Where do you even come up with a number like 8x? In terms of raw processing power I get it, but trying to turn the real world jump in visuals into a single number is meaningless. Because an "8x" increase in visuals has a different meaning depending on who you ask.

To actually describe the move from one generation to another, you have to describe the new technologies introduced, or the refinement of technologies that were already in use. For example, this gen we saw a large increase in geometry detail, the added use of normal mapping, dynamic lighting, significantly more real time shadows, more particles, more physics, better AI, etc. It's practically impossible to put those real-world improvements into some arbitrary number. A number doesn't describe anything.

Totally correct. Many times if someone doesn't "get it" they will see 8x's and that could instantly make them think oh 8xs the resolution...? Hell no. 8x's the people on screen? No.

It would be much better, as you described, to discuss the extras that can be done. For example AI, in particular. That's something that is hard to describe but I am sure someone could explain it well enough to show a big jump in the systems capability.

 

[XtremeXpider]

hes trolling

Always? xD

 

[Gorillaz]

PS4=PS4
XB3=XB3
WiiU=WiiU

Doesn't make sense xplan it nao

 

[Lynn616]

Always? xD

The best place to hide the truth is between two trolls.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I am slightly excited about this Nintendo Direct conf but I also get the feeling their going to show Pikmin and Wario and be like "I told you we had games!"

 

[clav]

PS4=PS4
XB3=XB3
WiiU=WiiU

what have you done?

 

[JordanN]

Ugh, I don't know why people even use arbitrary numbers to describe the jump in visuals. Where do you even come up with a number like 8x? In terms of raw processing power I get it, but trying to turn the real world jump in visuals into a single number is meaningless. Because an "8x" increase in visuals has a different meaning depending on who you ask.

To actually describe the move from one generation to another, you have to describe the new technologies introduced, or the refinement of technologies that were already in use. For example, this gen we saw a large increase in geometry detail, the added use of normal mapping, dynamic lighting, significantly more real time shadows, more particles, more physics, better AI, etc. It's practically impossible to put those real-world improvements into some arbitrary number. A number doesn't describe anything.

I usually liken the "8x" number to polygon detail and texture information because they're the most visible improvements going from different generations although even that number can look exaggerated depending on what you're comparing (ex: there isn't a character model 8x more detailed than Leon's model from RE4 this gen).

 

[Bsigg12]

Disregard, I missed an entire section in the direct thread.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Remember when I wondered aloud if MS was just playing up a feature that has been standard in GPUs for a while, and maybe people were getting all hot and bothered over pretty mundane features?

Hmm...

The Radeon HD 6900 series GPU’s compute enhancements include asynchronous dispatch support, which allows the chip to execute multiple compute kernels simultaneously with each kernel having access to its own command queue and protected virtual address domain. The GPU also sports dual bi-directional DMA engines for faster system memory reads and writes and the chip is capable of coalescing shader read ops. It can also fetch direct to local data stores within on-chip memory with faster flow control and faster double precision ops, which are 1/4 of the single precision rate.

So AMD GPUs have had "DMA Engines" since the 6900 series. Is that all the DMEs are?

 

[CLEEK]

So AMD GPUs have had "DMA Engines" since the 6900 series. Is that all the DMEs are?

That was what several people on Beyond3D seemed to think they are.

 

[Karak]

So just another random or GPU memory feature?

 

[nib95]

Remember when I wondered aloud if MS was just playing up a feature that has been standard in GPUs for a while, and maybe people were getting all hot and bothered over pretty mundane features?

Hmm...





So AMD GPUs have had "DMA Engines" since the 6900 series. Is that all the DMEs are?

Disappointing if true. Was kind of hoping a unique Microsoft invented sauce really did exist.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Remember when I wondered aloud if MS was just playing up a feature that has been standard in GPUs for a while, and maybe people were getting all hot and bothered over pretty mundane features?

Hmm...





So AMD GPUs have had "DMA Engines" since the 6900 series. Is that all the DMEs are?

DMA= Direct memory access
DME = Data Move Engine

The same? I don't know.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

OMFG this would make internet history. I actually would love to see this happen just from all the rage that would be released from so many people.

They'll likely siphon it off into a separate tally. You'll be able to see your "classic" 370 score, and then build up your new 720 score.

You guys will make it through it, trust me.

 

[Karak]

DMA= Direct memory access
DME = Data Move Engine

The same? I don't know.

That's awful close. Maybe just another name change for an already existing efficiency and and maybe some small reworkings of it.

 

[clav]

I think the best meltdown potential of all time would be if Microsoft announced that Xbox Live gamerscores were going to be reset with the release of the next Xbox.

Doubt it.

Windows 8 Xbox Live games already add to the current total.

 

[oversitting]

Maybe just another name change for an already existing efficiency and and maybe some reworkings of it.

no way. The described hardware in that picture would already be in the gpu.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Maybe just another name change for an already existing efficiency and and maybe some reworkings of it.

disappointed if true xD

 

[Karak]

no way. The described hardware in that picture would already be in the gpu.

Hmmm. Gotcha.

About Gamerscores. Do people actually care about those much anymore? It seems like not, but seeing some of the posts here it looks like many do.

 

[Proelite]

It's not DMA.
DMAs are already in Gpus.

 

[low-G]

I usually liken the "8x" number to polygon detail and texture information because they're the most visible improvements going from different generations although even that number can look exaggerated depending on what you're comparing (ex: there isn't a character model 8x more detailed than Leon's model from RE4 this gen).

This post is 1.4x more stupid that what I usually read on NeoGAF. ;P

Technically, while you have current gen models with only a few times the polygon count of Leon's RE4 model, they've introduced normal mapping, which by their very definition represent with some 90%-95% of the original detail, character models with THOUSANDS of times more detail than Leon's in RE4. Literally. Thousands. So, let's remove 10% off that and just say your comments are ridiculous and gravely uninformed.

Thousandsx

 

[Lunchbox]

This post is 1.4x more stupid that what I usually read on NeoGAF. ;P

Technically, while you have current gen models with only a few times the polygon count of Leon's RE4 model, they've introduced normal mapping, which by their very definition represent with some 90%-95% of the original detail, character models with THOUSANDS of times more detail than Leon's in RE4. Literally. Thousands. So, let's remove 10% off that and just say your comments are ridiculous and gravely uninformed.

Thousandsx

how many 360s tapped together is that?

 

[nib95]

It's not DMA.
DMAs are already in Gpus.

Some hope is restored! Sources, please post whatever you know or can find our about these DME's. They're the only real question mark in these leaked specs.

 

[Brad Grenz]

It's not DMA.
DMAs are already in Gpus.

What I'm suggesting is the DMEs are a beefed up version of a GPU's DMA Engine that has been made aware of the full 32MBs of EDRAM and can address the entire x86 address space (a feature the GCN architecture already had, according to this: Page 11).

 

[XtremeXpider]

Some hope is restored! Sources, please post whatever you know or can find our about these DME's. They're the only real question mark in these leaked specs.

Maybe he is just trolling xD

 

[Ramblin]

I wonder how much damage this hardcore speculation does to a game console before launch?

 

[Karak]

I wonder how much damage this hardcore speculation does to a game console before launch?

IN the long run it didn't seem to damage the PS3 so much. I mean really.

 

[phosphor112]

So...
Ps4 = Xbox 1
720 = ps2
Wii u = Dreamcast

Please, not again. Bish already banned someone for this stuff.

 

[ghst]

I wonder how much damage this hardcore speculation does to a game console before launch?

nothing that can't be undone with a fudged quasi-gameplay showreel of gorgeous, barely interactive games.

 

[nib95]

What I'm suggesting is the DMEs are a beefed up version of a GPU's DMA Engine that has been made aware of the full 32MBs of EDRAM and can address the entire x86 address space (a feature the GCN architecture already had, according to this: Page 11).

This is also a possibility. I'm assuming the sram is not a normal facet of the GPU, so the DME's could indeed be a customised version of the DMA's, as implied, to work with the sram more efficiently.

 

[Karak]

nothing that can't be undone with a fudged quasi-gameplay showreel of gorgeous, barely interactive games.

So true