• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

VGLeaks: First look as Durango XDK (always connected, kinect required, must install)

KageMaru

Member
Oct 6, 2010
9,910
1
0
Even if the two APU rumor were true, it still won't be as powerful as the ps4.

Nope. There have only been leaked rumors of Microsoft blocking used games. All that is out for Sony is having filed for a patent for the technology, but there have been no rumors about them using those patents nor blocknig used games; only Microsoft.
So rumors surfaced from a leak that may or may not have been true while no rumors resulted in a patent that can be proven real?

Why does this not make sense to me?

I doubt he have common sense when it's about Xbox
Ouch.

I thought the "some reason" was Sony publically saying that you can play offline, and that used games will run...?
Still doesn't make sense to jump to conclusions, and always the negative conclusions, when there are few logical reasons to believe one out of the three next Gen consoles will force online as a requirement while also being the only one to block used games.

I'm open for possibilities, but to jump to those conclusions based on that gamestop quote sounds more like wishful thinking IMO.
 

Takuya

Banned
May 24, 2011
4,403
0
0
So rumors surfaced from a leak that may or may not have been true while no rumors resulted in a patent that can be proven real?
Why does this not make sense to me?
Because the sources for the leaks have proven to be very accurate.
 
Feb 15, 2013
4,373
0
500
handle = new gamecube!
rice cooker functionality included
fierce = official Pop-GAF support!

But seriously, I think these "dual APU" rumors are basically just referring to the "real" one that'll be used for Durango games, and then a separate one that could be used for Xbox 360 BC and/or low power system level stuff.

Same thing that the rumored $99 media player focused Xbox 360 would use. Of course, I'm pulling all of this out of my ass as I have no special inside info, but it kinda makes sense to me, *shrug*
Well i don't think they need another APU(360 GPU+CPU) to BC,since it 360&720 both using AMD card,unless 720 will use NVIDIA lol
 

XtremeXpider

Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,091
0
0
But i didn't post it because it's from April 1 and he said it's dual APU lol
"最重要的是,Beta Kit竟然里面有两个APU,就和之前部分软饭猜测的一样。我操,这下猛了。"
(Most important thing is,the beta come with 2 APU,just like some MS fans guess.fuck that's crazy)
Lol

Even if the two APU rumor were true, it still won't be as powerful as the ps4.
Lol
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Jun 7, 2009
78,145
0
0
If it was indeed posted a day before today's Kotaku article and shares the striped dev kits bit, I think it holds some salt, if the Kotaku rumour got a thread.
 

AgentP

Member
Jun 5, 2011
7,071
1,035
775
I am not obliged to conceal my identity but will do so, I would like to guarantee that this information is sound as of the last 2 months but cannot; the silicon should be near final from what I am told.
What I will say will not necessarily be well received nor believed, my sole reason for this is the inability for the intelligent to actually see beyond the stem of misinformation based as accuracy. Further to mention that I am actually a fan of MSFT products and felt this should be said.
The leaks you have are accurate regarding the Durango v2.2 development kits but what has gone over the heads of many is that MSFT has incorporated a dual mainboard, dual APU system. Essentially MSFT will reveal a system with 2 times what VGL has leaked in one housing.
AMD have said the PS4 has the most powerful APU ever made right now, this is true, instead MSFT decided to go with a dual setup whilst Sony have overclocked to near 2.012GHz.
You shall hear more come March 6.
http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1715919&postcount=1675

Well if BClifford says it's true... Dual APU with an SRAM system would be dumb unless I'm missing something. Huge cost if both APUs have their own or one is missing it and cannot use the SRAM, thus gimping it.


If it was indeed posted a day before today's Kotaku article and shares the striped dev kits bit, I think it holds some salt, if the Kotaku rumour got a thread.

Or Occum's Razor, the one read Kotaku and the time was just due to an Asian timezone.
 

KageMaru

Member
Oct 6, 2010
9,910
1
0
Because the sources for the leaks have proven to be very accurate.
Fair enough, I haven't kept track of every rumor and I don't care enough to search for any similar rumors surrounding the ps4. I just found it odd how you formed such a conclusion from something so vague.

Not sure what is funny. I think it's time to let go of any hope for that special sauce. ;p
 

shandy706

Member
May 3, 2011
15,994
2
0
Clemson Tiger Country
http://club.tgfcer.com/thread-6638884-1-1.html
I saw that ex-UBI guy in TGFC(that chinese tech forum) talked about the same thing 2 days ago
"上周五项目收到了第一批Durango的Beta Kit,主机超大一个白盒子,新手柄。而且主机和手柄都贴着不规律黑色的胶带条纹,就和新车发布前的伪装似的。"
(Last Friday received the first batch of Durango Beta Kit,console is a huge white box,and new controller.Console and controller are plastered with irregular black stripes tape,like camouflage a new car before announce.)
But i didn't post it because it's from April 1 and he said it's dual APU lol
"最重要的是,Beta Kit竟然里面有两个APU,就和之前部分软饭猜测的一样。我操,这下猛了。"
(Most important thing is,the beta come with 2 APU,just like some MS fans guess.fuck that's crazy)
....if this is true......8-D
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
That's what I was thinking. A second ARM SoC for the non-gaming stuff.
Yup, the same regulations that apply to ALL game consoles including refreshes to PS3 and Xbox 360 apply to both the PS4 and Xbox 720.

Xbox 360 refresh to have ARM (WinRT) in the app side and gameside a Xbox 360 SoC or min using PPC and ARM GPU if they can get that to work.

Trustzone is required because to support XTV allows java and javascript code to run from RVU video streams and targeted sites which means an open system which needs additional security. OS UI power regulations can not be met with last generation GPUs or the larger AMD GPUs. ARM provides Trustzone and GPUs that can support a low power UI and in addition the OS UI also needs Trustzone to be secure.

Trustzone security includes all IO and the UI, anything that can be intercepted by malware to get bank pin numbers or intercept pay TV or IPTV streams. I assume the PS4 will have a GPU accelerated UI which requires a ARM GPU and if the PS4 is to support a 4K UI then it needs a Mali 600 series GPU which has compute 1.1 support. Example: The UI is used by Trustzone applications to display an Icon (Lock and Green check mark) that assures the user that entering a PIN number is via a secure system. If UI were not part of Trustzone then Malware could mimic this Icon even though the system is not secure, you need a secure UI so that the ICON can be trusted.

Everything Trustzone is running on ARM IP which means there are two systems in the PS4 and Xbox 720, an ARM system for everything but games and a AMD X86 + AMD GPU for running games. Two APUs in one but one low power ARM and the second high power AMD. Same applies to the Xbox 360 (2013 refresh) but with a Xbox PPC/SoC
 

Reiko

Banned
Apr 29, 2012
11,000
0
0
Yup, the same regulations that apply to ALL game consoles including refreshes to PS3 and Xbox 360 apply to both the PS4 and Xbox 720.

Xbox 360 refresh to have ARM (WinRT) in the app side and gameside a Xbox 360 SoC or min using PPC and ARM GPU if they can get that to work.

Trustzone is required because to support XTV allows java and javascript code to run from RVU video streams and targeted sites which means an open system which needs additional security. OS UI power regulations can not be met with last generation GPUs or the larger AMD GPUs. ARM provides Trustzone and GPUs that can support a low power UI and in addition the OS UI also needs Trustzone to be secure.

Trustzone security includes all IO and the UI, anything that can be intercepted by malware to get bank pin numbers or intercept pay TV or IPTV streams. I assume the PS4 will have a GPU accelerated UI which requires a ARM GPU and if the PS4 is to support a 4K UI then it needs a Mali 600 series GPU which has compute 1.1 support. Example: The UI is used by Trustzone applications to display an Icon (Lock and Green check mark) that assures the user that entering a PIN number is via a secure system. If UI were not part of Trustzone then Malware could mimic this Icon even though the system is not secure, you need a secure UI so that the ICON can be trusted.

Everything Trustzone is running on ARM IP which means there are two systems in the PS4 and Xbox 720, an ARM system for everything but games and a AMD X86 + AMD GPU for running games. Two APUs in one but one low power ARM and the second high power AMD. Same applies to the Xbox 360 (2013 refresh) but with a Xbox PPC/SoC
Well damn. Based Jeff Rigby.
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
Well damn. Based Jeff Rigby.
Lots of people see this, the ones resisting are following a bias that I had in assuming single processor old style designs. HSA is using the best CPU for the job; best being lowest power or most efficient. At this time ARM is best for low power by a factor of about 10X and for games a AMD GPU is about 10X more powerful than a ARM Mali 600 which AMD touted in 2011 would be equal to a Xbox 360 in 2013 @ 28nm.

There are regulations for Game Console power modes that impact the design. I've been saying this over and over since before August last year when I started a thread EPA Energy Star third Tier requirements and impact on Game Consoles.

I assumed APU + GPU with stacked memory in a pre HSA foundation design even at the same time touting Fusion HSA for CPU and GPU using the best of CPU - GPGPU and knowing that all ARM manufacturing companies joined the HSA foundation first (besides AMD which started it). The 4/2010 leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint stressed low power modes and had a low power and high power GPU which I guess started the APU + GPU or two APUs rumors. No one looked closely and saw one (the larger) running at 1Ghz and the other smaller at 500 Mhz. Half the clock speed is wasting performance to get lower power.....once you realize that a look for Game console power regulations confirms the need for two GPUs.

Hindsight is 20/20....

ARM making inroads is related to RVU being required by the FCC.

XTV/RVU is going to require low power modes and is why Google TV is limited to Atom, ARM and Mips.

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=180197&postcount=115

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=180262&postcount=122

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=180339&postcount=142

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=180478&postcount=209
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
It just came to me to question why the delay?

• Oban – migration of XBOX PowerPC chip to 32nm
Helped to develop the flow for schematic and layout migration of key circuits, and led efforts to trouble-shoot the verification-flow (in addition to passing all checks ahead of schedule). Also led analog migration of the RNG and played a key role in fixing a critical component of the circuit.
Oban taped out Dec 2011 @ 32nm and the leak below states the Xbox 360/ARM is coming AFTER after late 2013, why produce the Xbox PPC that early. Because Xbox 720 is getting BC using this processor????

ARM-BASED XBOX ‘LITE’ COMING IN 2013, XBOX 360 SUCCESSOR LATER, INSIDER CLAIMS March 2012

“My understanding is that we’ll see a Xbox device in late 2013 which does Arcade-style games & all the current & future media apps with Kinect (with near-mode),” MS Nerd wrote on Reddit while fielding user-submitted questions. “It will be an ARM-based platform price-competitive with the Apple TV (if you own a Kinect already).”
This was recently seconded by another reporter, XBOX 360 that runs Win RT (ARM) and is supposed to be Xbox 360 compatible. March 2013
 
Feb 15, 2013
7,489
2,012
695
London
It just came to me to question why the delay?


Oban taped out Dec 2011 @ 32nm and the leak below states the Xbox 360/ARM is coming AFTER after late 2013, why produce the Xbox PPC that early. Because Xbox 720 is getting BC using this processor????

ARM-BASED XBOX ‘LITE’ COMING IN 2013, XBOX 360 SUCCESSOR LATER, INSIDER CLAIMS March 2012

This was recently seconded by another reporter, XBOX 360 that runs Win RT (ARM) and is supposed to be Xbox 360 compatible. March 2013

This actually makes sense, I wouldn't be surprised if MS released the final iteration of the Xbox 360 this year, with integrated Kinect and priced at the magic $99. Although I am a lot more sceptical on the inclusion of Windows in any said box.


Will probably effect GDDR5 as well.
 

AgentP

Member
Jun 5, 2011
7,071
1,035
775
I'll definitely pay more attention to Jeff's posts from now on.
Why? I don't see anything that has any substance. His own links don't back any of his claims. MS is not going to stick more hardware into a 360 and make it $99? ARM cannot run 360 titles, at all, ever. ARM is not needed for 360 media apps. If they make a ARM based Apple TV device to run RT and its apps, it will not run 360 software and not support the Kinect. This low power regulation stuff is all a red herring too. A bit of skepticism would be healthy around here, everyone is connecting rumors with other rumors. Garbage in, garbage out.
 

Baconsammy

Banned
Aug 9, 2011
17,535
0
0
Seattle Washington
Wouldn't be surprised to see a cheap 360 released that also allows access to some of the new media content in the next Xbox. Keep dominating Sony in the low end and hopefully stop Nintendo from gaining any momentum from a price drop of their own.
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
Why? I don't see anything that has any substance. His own links don't back any of his claims. MS is not going to stick more hardware into a 360 and make it $99? ARM cannot run 360 titles, at all, ever. ARM is not needed for 360 media apps. If they make a ARM based Apple TV device to run RT and its apps, it will not run 360 software and not support the Kinect. This low power regulation stuff is all a red herring too. A bit of skepticism would be healthy around here, everyone is connecting rumors with other rumors. Garbage in, garbage out.
Wow, Cerney states the reason for a PS4 custom southbridge with it's own CPU is because of restrictive EU power regulations and you call it a Red herring.

I've cited everything yet you say the links don't back any of my claims, blanket statement so I'd appreciate your listing what you say is not supported and I'll pull the paragraphs supporting what I said out of the links. Obviously I've in some way made it difficult for you to find proof in the cites. It's easier to do this now than it was 6 months ago when I first started talking about more modern hardware (GPU and support chips) being used with PPU and MPA Cell because of Game console power regulations.

"A bit of skepticism would be healthy around here" is absolutely true. I would appreciate any constructive criticism...try to find anything I missed, anywhere there is no proper support for the statements I've made...I do have a tendency to jump steps and come to unwarranted conclusions or to make statements that take 3 years to be accurate.
 

Reiko

Banned
Apr 29, 2012
11,000
0
0
No more thread requests from me. Obviously you get a troll tag for doing it.

Now I do hope that rumor is true.
 

AgentP

Member
Jun 5, 2011
7,071
1,035
775
I'd appreciate your listing what you say is not supported and I'll pull the paragraphs supporting what I said out of the links.
This was recently seconded by another reporter, XBOX 360 that runs Win RT (ARM) and is supposed to be Xbox 360 compatible. March 2013
You follow the link and some video of a MS blogger who only claimed a $99 360, nothing else with no source of course.

Your other source is just as dubious. "MS Nerd" claims all kinds of stuff, my favorite is a new Kinect camera which comes out after the launch of the 720. And how would a WP8 Apple TV like device have anything to do with Durango? It would be a Ouya/Google TV like device and have nothing to do with the 360 or Durango. It could only run phone apps.

He goes on to state that the Kinect controller will likely receive a camera upgrade after the Xbox 360′s successor launches, and a new Kinect may debut around 2015.
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
You follow the link and some video of a MS blogger who only claimed a $99 360, nothing else with no source of course.

Your other source is just as dubious. "MS Nerd" claims all kinds of stuff, my favorite is a new Kinect camera which comes out after the launch of the 720. And how would a WP8 Apple TV like device have anything to do with Durango? It would be a Ouya/Google TV like device and have nothing to do with the 360 or Durango. It could only run phone apps.
So you question the source(s) not that I am inaccurately portraying what they are saying. Two sources saying ARM UIs and the leaked Xbox 720 saying x86/ARM with AMD saying they are putting Trustzone (ARM) in their SoCs (APU) from 2013 on. I'm not relying on only this but giving reasons why the UI has to be under 35 watts and Standby mode under 500mw. This can not be done with the PS4 GPU and likely not with the Xbox 720 unless it's a APU + GPU or TWO GPUs with one smaller and power efficient which the Leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint spells out.

I've been trying to explain what's been in front of our eyes, it's now 20/20 hindsight. I really don't know why more aren't seeing this.

There may be a way to eventually use AMD hardware for trustzone and to design one GPU with a low power mode where part of the GPU sleeps but it's not available now.

Who would you believe? There are about 7 posters in this thread independently echoing what I'm saying.
 

Brad Grenz

Member
Sep 28, 2009
4,200
1
0
Salem, OR
www.gamerblahhhg.com
I wouldn't take that for granted. AMD CPUs and GPUs both offer pretty aggressive dynamic clocking and modular low power states. If you turn off all but 2 of the Jaguar cores, and clock the GPU down to like 200Mhz that could be fine for video functions while getting under 35watts. Standby in the PS4 will obviously use the external chips Cerny has alluded to.
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
I wouldn't take that for granted. AMD CPUs and GPUs both offer pretty aggressive dynamic clocking and modular low power states. If you turn off all but 2 of the Jaguar cores, and clock the GPU down to like 200Mhz that could be fine for video functions while getting under 35watts. Standby in the PS4 will obviously use the external chips Cerny has alluded to.
We've not seen anything like this done yet so I have no examples. Idle power is the min power used even with no GPU work being done, it's a function of the wasted power due to bias in the transistors that make up the logic. Lowering the clock speed, in the past, has a non-linear impact on the power used with the power curve becoming more vertical only when it reaches higher frequencies with more work being done by the GPU.

The PS3 as a system uses 61 watts at the XMB and 90+ watts max load. The PS4 has, if I'm guessing correctly, a max load somewhere around 140 watts with the GPU making up about 100 watts of that. In the past you get about a 40% savings in reducing the load to 0, 22% if you manage CPU and GPU dynamically with clock speeds while running at full load.

So a 2 watt saving in only one CPU package on and 40% for no load + some unknown reducing the clock (20% as a min) which is not linear but = 82 watts if this were older hardware and not reducing the clock speed. I'm guessing you can't make 35 watts even with more modern hardware with GDDR5 and a 18CU GPU. If the Leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint is any indication, Microsoft in 4/2010 looking at what would be available didn't think it would be possible either and predicted TWO GPUs, one SMALLER with a lower clock. Edit: Sony didn't think it possible either and has a patent for switching from a lower power GPU to higher power and the reverse.

But your right, this is an example of my overreaching, I shouldn't take it for granted.

The coming Xbox 360 @ 32nm using a more modern GPU should be able to get under 35 watts at the Dashboard yet according to multiple leaks it also has ARM for the non-game side. I'm guessing that is for 1) for Trustzone and 2) because it's going to support XTV which means it will be on when the TV is on and there will be a new regulation for RVU/XTV while still leaving IPTV Streaming like in Netflix at 45 watts. That's also in the Leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint. Xbox 360 Can't run "always on"/low power states



The new set of FCC rules, set to be made mandatory by June 2, 2014, also clarifies what capabilities are expected of the HD streams:

recordable high-definition video => DVR ability in both "always on" consoles without a TV tuner needed using RVU.
closed captioning data
service discovery
video transport
remote control command pass-through

DLNA Premium Video Profile, an HD-compliant version of the secure-streaming standard set to be ratified in 2013, was suggested as one possible option for cable companies.
Looks like the RVU additions to DLNA recently adopted are the standard. Xtended TV is coming to OTA with ATSC 2.0 in the US this year and those standards should make their way into cable.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120521005955/en/NDS-Implements-ARM-Technology-Based-Secure-Mobile-Environment said:
VideoGuard Connect, the DRM for multiplatform pay-TV, provides end-to-end protection of an operator’s service, utilizing the unique security capabilities of each individual platform. Designed to help TV operators to seamlessly extend their pay-TV services to connected media devices, VideoGuard Connect enables the secure ingestion, delivery and consumption of premium content over both managed and over-the-top (OTT) networks on the most popular devices including smartphones, tablets, PCs, games consoles and Smart TVs.

Demonstrated on the Android platform, this development highlights the security capabilities of the DRM solution in even the most open environment, combining VideoGuard Connect with the built-in ARM TrustZone capabilities of the mobile device.
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
Read the two PDFs linked below. The TEE mentioned below accepted by the BBC and others takes secure Enterprise transactions to a new level with a Standard that should be accepted by all. This is necessary for the Internet to mature to the next level (Next level is Ecosystem-Enterprise making money we have been hearing about since 2010 but Microsoft/Sony/Apple have been planning since the 1990's). The Netflix/Microsoft/Google DRM API hooks to W3C standards/HTML5 video is also a big addition to Necessary Standards. All these are being adopted in next generation game consoles and likely in refreshed Xbox 360 and PS3.


ARM in THIS PDF is touting slipstreaming ARM APPS across multiple ecosystems. The idea is the reuse ARM apps with little change across multiple different platforms. For instance the PS4, Xbox 720, Vita and refreshed Xbox 360 & PS3 can use ARM apps with little change if the APIs for the individual ecosystems are the same. Inside Sony's ecosystem and PSN Cloud the same APP will work on Sony TVs and Blu-Ray players with ARM trustzone as well as a PS4 and Vita with ARM trustzone. Sony has adopted Microsoft's Playready DRM scheme for ALL their network connected Devices and Microsoft has Trustzone-Playready DRM already implemented.

http://www.microsoft.com/playready/newsroom/ said:
Sony Adopts Microsoft PlayReady Content Protection Technology for Sony's Network Access Capable Devices March 18, 2011

Sony Corporation ("Sony") today announced an agreement to adopt Microsoft PlayReady content protection technology for Sony's network-enabled devices. The first Sony device to include support for Microsoft PlayReady is the Sony Blu-ray Disc Player which launched in U.S. this February.
Trustzone ready program started by ARM in 4th quarter 2010.
TEE (Trusted Execution Environment page 14) = partnership between three companies ( ARM, Giesecke & Devrient (G+D) Mobicore) to create a standard for on-line transactions that has been accepted by the BBC and others. Trustzone has been available in ARM since 2004 but has not been widely implemented due to a lack of standards (Chicken and egg again).



There are "leaks" supporting a refreshed Xbox 360 with ARM for the dashboard coming after the Xbox TV/Lite I have already mentioned in this thread. I suspect a 22nm Cell is coming that also supports ARM for trustzone.
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
Not going to lie, I love seeing your posts, Jeff.
Thanks, I'm trying to connect the dots and there are more dot now leading to I think more accuracy.

I've always been a technology Geek and I have a "need" to know how things work. I haven't been a professional in this industry since the 80's so from 2010 on I've been bootstrapping my knowledge base because I couldn't understand why Sony was taking so long to support Apps or Google TV in the PS3 when their TVs were getting Yahoo/javascript apps during that time period. Turns out they had bigger plans for the PS3 which I've posted. By middle 2011 this became clear while following/posting on Webkit coming to the PS3.

Webkit and the native libraries that support it, blu-ray player codecs and blu-ray Java = the software stack for ATSC 2.0 (1080P, S3D and X-tended TV) (XTV) = hbbTV in Europe. This is why the PS3 is a Network connected (Webkit) 1080P & S3D blu-ray player. (This was in the 2001 paper I previously posted.)

2010 with the FCC mandating RVU by Dec 2012 started the PS3 firmware evolution with 3.0 and the 4/2010 Microsoft Leaked Powerpoint was about how to take advantage of the FCC ruling with the Xbox 360 not able to support the standards so a Xbox 361 was supposed to be released for the 2012 holiday season.
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
Why Microsoft Got Into The Console Business

Microsoft only entered the console market because Sony refused to work with them, according to a former Microsoft exec.

When asked why Microsoft decided to enter the console space, he asserted that, "The main reason was to stop Sony. You see, Sony and Microsoft…they never had a very friendly relationship, okay? And this wasn’t because Microsoft didn’t want that.

"Sony was always very arm’s length with Microsoft. Yeah, they bought Windows for their PCs but when you really take a hard look at that, they were never Microsoft’s friend. And Microsoft in a way wanted them to be a friend because they knew they had a lot of things we could have co-operated on because they are, in a way, an entertainment company, you know? I mean, at least a portion of Sony is and they had some really good things going there, but as soon as they came out with a video console, Microsoft just looked at that and said 'well, we have to beat them, so let’s do our own.'”

This decision supposedly came right from the top of the company, with Bill Gates himself even chipping in. Despite initial reservations, Kempin claims that Gates always had qualms that the living room computer would, at some stage, metamorphosise into an alternative PC that could threaten Microsoft's dominance of the traditional market. As a result, it was eventually felt the company had to try and tackle Sony head-on.
From the 90's Microsoft and Sony have been on committees creating standards to fit their long term vision. My view similar to Patcher but with cites to show Sony and Microsoft working together since the 90's.

Owning the living room

Playready and Trustzone standards may be cooperation between Microsoft and Sony

Trustzone may be required to allow Game consoles to support Pay-per view from cable companies when RVU is mandated by the FCC June 2014.

But the middle of 2011 Microsoft files domain names microsoft-sony.com and sony-microsoft.com which indicate they are working together; I'm guessing this applies to next generation game consoles.
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
This is by no means any jeff_rigby caliber news, but I thought it could be good to post (and I figured this thread was the most recent and appropriate, several earlier threads about Durango hardware locked as well). From an S-4 for ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES INC dated 5th of April:

Game consoles: We leverage our core visual processing technology into the game console market by licensing customized GPUs for graphics in videogame consoles such as the Microsoft® Xbox 360™, Nintendo Wii and Wii U from Nintendo and customized APUs in game consoles, such as the Sony PlayStation4.
Source: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/2488/000119312513144066/d516043ds4.htm

Again, nothing big but I think this is the first time in an SEC filing AMD has directly hinted at Durango anyway. At least if the plural "consoles" is something to go by. And well, we can safely say that Microsoft's next-gen Xbox in one way or another features AMD components, right?

A quite interesting thing, though it's more or less just a coincidence though you could use it for some good business, is that AMD and Microsoft both have their next earnings conference calls on April 18th.

Q1 2013 Advanced Micro Devices Earnings Conference Call
5:00 p.m. ET
http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-eventDetails&EventId=4901035

Microsoft Fiscal Year 2013 Third Quarter Earnings Conference Call
2:30 PM - PT
http://www.microsoft.com/investor/default.aspx

Microsoft's earnings conference call starts half an hour later than AMD's call, but that shouldn't prevent information from coming. I'm not saying that we will get to know stuff, but by writing like this AMD opens up for questions about certain things. And hopefully Microsoft will provide some good details about the next Xbox in or prior to its event. Perhaps nothing as shocking as 8 GB GDDR5 memory but just announcing that AMD is behind the APU(s) as a slightly mouth watering tease.
 

dragonelite

Member
Mar 9, 2010
12,132
0
0
Even if the two APU rumor were true, it still won't be as powerful as the ps4.
How does 2 * 1.2 < 1.8 ?

Its a crazy configuration and don't think it is true two apu console.
But if it is true the performance is higher then the ps4. It will add some of complexity compared to the more standard configuration of the ps4. But with a unified memory system it would be like a xfire and sli configuration on steroids only write and read to memory not a go through slow PCIE connection i guess. Need to see how microsoft can synchronize a two apu configuration.

Im gonna keep the VGleaks durango rumors as the realistic with maybe the juiced up 7790 gpu at 1.79Tflops.
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
This is why Trustzone will be in Game Consoles. RVU and Pay TV ready.

Bringing the Benefits of the Smartphone to Pay-TV March 2013

On Monday this week, ARM together with FXI Technologies presented our proof-of-concept demonstration of DLNA Consumer Video HTML5 Remote User Interface (RUI) at as of the Innovation Showcase at the CableLabs Winter Conference in Orlando (see video at the end of this blog). Based on open source components including Linaro, Ubuntu, Gstreamer, and QT Webkit, the proof-of-concept demo highlights a major trend and disruption in the traditional Set-Top Box space defining the evolution towards in three key areas:

New exciting form factors enabled by ultra-low power silicon originally developed for the Smartphone
Open application development platforms
“Pay-TV” readiness

We partnered with 4 key operators around the world, Cox Cable (USA), Orange (France), BesTV (China) and Sky (UK) to validate their HTML5 based RUIs running on the Cotton Candy microcomputer.

For as long as we have had pay-TV in our homes, the Set-Top Box – called such because it used to sit on top of the large console TV sets – has kept its distinct rectangular shape. Certainly devices like AppleTV, Boxee and Roku box have had distinct form factors, but then again these are designed mostly for Over-the-top (OTT) of the internet services. This is all about to change with the advent of “headless gateways”, devices which terminate operator Wide Area Network (WAN) interface into the home and are tucked in the back closest turning those proprietary cable signals into a home network based on WiFi. This will enable operators to use IP (in many cases Wi-Fi enabled) devices in the home as pay-TV endpoints, and combined with ARM’s ultra-low power high performance CPU and GPU cores, new form factor devices like FXI cotton candy USB-HDMI stick will emerge. These sticks, about the size of a pack of gum, are poised well to replace the traditional STB form factor.

For better or worse, it has historically been the case that the User Interface of STBs has not been something that most consumers have been excited about. This has started to change recently with the advent of products like Comcast’s Excalibur service and Liberty Global’s Horizon which provide rich user interfaces, making the discovery of premium content easier through features such as search and recommendations. The evolution of this trend will further improve the service from operators by offering a rich application platform on top of which to offer services. In China especially, we are already seeing Android taking off as an application platform for TVs and STBs. In Europe and the US there seems to be a lot of interest around using HTML5 DLNA Consumer Video standards for both RUI and applications. As we have seen from industry initiatives such as FireFox OS on phones and Chrome OS on notebooks, using the browser as a platform is not an entirely new concept. The evolution of standards within W3C such as inclusion of <video> and WebVTT are enabling the HTML5 platform to have the necessary hooks to make them suitable as pay-TV endpoints, which matter to operators.

Finally I want to emphasize the concept of Pay-TV “readiness”. We have seen over the years a number of STB technologies which make compelling demos but never make it to deployment on operator networks. One of the major reasons is because technology, while a very key aspect of delivery, is only part of the solution. Operators have a unique challenge in that they not only have to deliver compelling services, but have to in a way that does not generate additional customer care calls or the dreaded “truck roll”, which can easily turn a nice profitable services into the red. On top of this, operators need to comply to regularity and legal obligations as well. Fortunately the overwhelming response from the operator community on this project has given the team some specific items to go and work on to make it “pay-tv ready”.

Some of the key items involve bringing ARM TrustZone® technology to bear to provide a hardware root of trust for content protection, providing the latest in WiFi technology for seamless in-home video distribution, and implementation of simple Pay-TV centric features as Closed Captioning and SAP all on a robust, highly performant, low-power platform based on the latest ARM Cortex CPUs & Mali GPUs.
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
http://www.edge-online.com/news/microsoft-dedicating-all-tv-resources-to-xbox/ said:
Microsoft has said that it is committing “100 per cent of its focus” on a consumer TV strategy with Xbox which aims to make the console a “premium entertainment service.”

IPTV service Mediaroom has been sold to Ericsson to enable this, Microsoft said. Yusuf Mehdi, corporate vice president of marketing, strategy and business for the Interactive Entertainment Business at Microsoft, explained the move and suggested where Xbox might go next in a blog announcing the news.

“Today, Microsoft and Ericsson announced a definitive agreement for Ericsson to acquire Mediaroom…it allows Microsoft to commit 100 percent of its focus on consumer TV strategy with Xbox,” he said.

Mehdi later added: “Microsoft is dedicating all TV resources to Xbox in a continued mission to make it the premium entertainment service that delivers all the games and entertainment consumers want – whether on a console, phone, PC or tablet.”

“We want to partner with the industry to deliver the next wave of innovation in games and consumer entertainment. We will partner with content creators, studios, labels, networks, content aggregators, operators and distributors to make this happen.”

Microsoft recently confirmed that it would be opening a studio in LA to create “visionary original interactive content”.
XTV own the living room.