Coming into a thread about rumors only to complain about rumors, with sources it must be emphasized, seems a bit silly
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VGLeaks rumor: Durango CPU Overview
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
Coming into a thread about rumors only to complain about rumors, with sources it must be emphasized, seems a bit silly
CadetMahoney
Member
Didn't they say as much when MS released 8gb "we will match the memory" or something.
I can see the parody already:
Sony: I can fillrate faster than you
MS: No you can't
yesIcanyesIcanacnanna
PC: NO YOU CAAAAAaaaannntt.
specialguy
Banned
There is a developer claimed to be familiar with both in the latest issue of edge, the quote is basically, PS4 is "slightly" more powerful than Durango, and multiplat differences will be similar to PS3/360 this gen.
Maybe this was before the PS4 moved to 8GB (although Edge was the one who broke that, and it is mentioned in this section of this article, so certainly Edge wasn't unaware) but it's still surprising. When we hear such doom and gloom towards Durango on message boards, it doesn't jive with "slightly" and PS3/360 differences". It makes me wonder what gives.
Maybe this was before the PS4 moved to 8GB (although Edge was the one who broke that, and it is mentioned in this section of this article, so certainly Edge wasn't unaware) but it's still surprising. When we hear such doom and gloom towards Durango on message boards, it doesn't jive with "slightly" and PS3/360 differences". It makes me wonder what gives.
Brad Grenz
Member
People probably shouldn't put too much stock in intentionally vague and diplomatically chosen words like "slightly". These developers have business relationships to protect, and they don't want there to be an impression that the Durango versions of their games are crappy and not worth buying.
If there are DF comparisons and the differences appear to be slight, will we be using the lazy devs moniker again? Or will that die with this gen?
Miles Quaritch
Member
The language used has already evolved, we'll see a lot more of 'lowest common denominator' and other such language if the differences are essentially negligible.
Lowest common denominator will always be hilarious.
360 - Because it's the weakest
"Then"
PS3 - Because it's easier to port from
les papillons sexuels
Banned
there's no such things as lazy developers, just people who want to make up a reason why they should feel mad.
yeah, skyrim is broken on ps3, it's not that bethesda are lazy, it's that their software designers created a game that has a specific memory management system that doesn't cater well to the design of the ps3. It's just the way they made the engine, sucks it doesn't work as good as it should, but it has nothing to do with lazyness.
Well Gearbox was too lazy to make a competent Aliens: Colonial Marines. So they did Borderlands instead.
They do exist. But not to the extent for why console version A performs different from console version B like you stated.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
I wouldn't call that lazyness, they could've made a competent one, but instead they decided to abuse the system, embezzele funds, and just be wads in general.
Of course you get lazy developers, just like you get incompetent ones. Just like you get lazy / incompetent people in pretty much every field of work. There are many reasons why shitty games get released. Developers will always be a factor, but management incompetence, publisher incompetence, internal politics etc can also be the cause.
Depends where the first party efforts land.
If Sony's first party teams destroy all multi-plat efforts on PS4 which are then directly comparable to their X720 versions that would speak towards 3rd parties choosing not to optimize for the PS4, wouldn't it?
But then I doubt that'll happen. If there is a meaningful hardware gap everyone is going to try and find some way to make use of it because not doing so would diminish your title against the competition.
This will hold especially true with the growing role of the PC format in the core gaming market. This past generation it was easiest to target the X360 because it was the middle ground between x86 architecture and whatever the hell you'd call the PS3 (since both X360 and PS3 had limited ram pools, PowerPC CPUs, etc.). If all three systems are x86 architecture, both systems have around 6-7GB of system memory free for games, etc. it would then be easiest to code to target the middle platform (assumed to be PS4), then port up to PC and down to the lowest platform (X720, based on current speculation). It results in the smallest amount of movement and is what developers chose to do this past generation.
It isn't too different from what developers have been doing with PC releases with low, medium, high, and ultra system settings. Games are designed to be ran in the medium to high range, low significantly gimps them and ultra adds a bunch of bells and whistles but nothing that is core to the game or it's engine. The consoles define that medium to high range and will do so again, with any significant power gap just dictating which one is closer to "high" and which one is closer to "medium".
shinra-bansho
Member
If multiplatform games end up being designed within the confines of 1.2TFLOPS, 68GB/s memory bandwidth etc. then how would it not be the "lowest common denominator"?
These figures would indeed be the lowest common denominator of overall very similar systems. And for all we know publishers have contractual obligations for "parity."
Fortunately, first party developers don't need to work towards the confines of competitor systems.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
so... this generation the ps3 was the lowest common denominator because it had less ram? This is the problem, it's all subject to which side of the fence your on.
shinra-bansho
Member
You should note the part about very similar systems. This generation we had two systems with very different architectures, with different strengths and weaknesses. In some cases, the PS3's RAM set-up was certainly a lowest common denominator.
As far as can be said right now, this is not the case for these 8th gen systems.
With the exception of memory systems they are by and large much of muchness.
those things are really not a problem... it is not too hard to add more textures, more effects, more poly-models.... they are already created at much higher levels and downsized to fit the game anyway.
Galacticos
Banned
so much wishful thinking.
"the ps4 is more powerful than the next xbox"
get over it, its annoying.
so much wishful thinking.
"the ps4 is more powerful than the next ebox"
get over it, its annoying.
I hope everyone is right. Even though I took a peek at the conference leak, not everything is set in stone until MS says otherwise.
If the latter happens, I expect to see huge meltdowns around GAF.
oldergamer
Member
I'm an IT project manager. Over the years, if there is always one group of individuals to over promise and under deliver, and need constant checking on progress, it's developers. I've worked with great ones who work every hour to see deadlines and milestones are met, and I've worked with ones who are technically skilled, yet pathologically lazy.
So yeah, you do get such a thing as lazy developers.
So yeah, you do get such a thing as lazy developers.
oldergamer
Member
There's a difference between being lazy, and being incompetent or incapable. Like I said, I've worked in games for 20 years and never saw ANY lazy developers. Most of that "lazy developer" crap came from this generation in relation to ports not looking as nice or running as well on ps3 compared to 360. It's a stupid disparaging remark used to hide console allegiances.
Sorc3r3r
Member
Huge meltdowns about what?
Systems parity?
We had to hope the rumors about Durango are wrong or if they are true that Microsoft specs up their box just to have 3rd party games developed without any lower common denominator to drive the whole dev process down for all.
And if some gaffer melts over this then is just a fanboy that deserves to melt. lol
Someone will meltdown over something. It's a GAF tradition. lol
HollovVpo1nt
Banned
travisbickle
Member
link?
I've been PM'd by many on GAF not to share it.
The overview is that it briefly goes over info already covered in VGleaks, only difference is new GCN architecture focusing on 100% theoretical GPU efficiency.
Only briefly talks about GPU and Data Move Engines.
Does not mention CPU or audio DSP(?)
Im not so sure that 33% more compute and 50% more fill, along with a simpler architecture is going to only be a slight edge.
Gemüsepizza
Member
It's even 50% more Compute Units than Xbox 3 (if Xbox 3 = 100%. It's only 33% (less) if PS4 = 100%)
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Are you saying you and others have a synopsis of the Durango reveal conference? A conference that doesn't even have a date yet?
Gemüsepizza
Member
No, afaik it's from the documentation for developers, maybe from the Durango conference in 2012. I guess people don't want to or can't share it because it contains information which can identify the leaker, but it doesn't even contain any major new information as far as I know (I don't have it).
Leaked PDF not for the public
:/
Gemüsepizza;48699567 said:
Yep. Same one aegis has.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Well I have to say it is crazy for Microsoft to produce such thing so far in advance or at all. Bring it all on themselves....
specialguy
Banned
On b3d they're talking about ESRAM maybe having 8-16 cycle latency to the GPU (according to some supposed leak) vs GDDR5 400-500 cycles. Said to be as fast as L1/L2 cache if true.
If thats true and it could be useful...maybe programmers can make it sing. That's almost two orders of magnitude difference.
If MS designed a system built around dirt cheap DDR3 and only 12 CU's that could decently compete with Orbis, I think they'd have to be thrilled.
Isn't there supposed to be another "internal" meeting?
This time everything should go as planned without it leaking.
(And by leaking, I mean a serious information breach)
Exactly.
specialguy
Banned
Why do you say that?
I mean both PS4 and 720 specs, basically fully leaked (well, confirmed in PS4's case, TBD on Durango)
I guess maybe it took a while. I dont remember getting huge Durango leaks in earnest until about January...
That PDF was probably obtained from Microsoft's server via SuperDaE.
I do expect some devs to give some hints on Twitter though.
The ESRAM has more uses than to just feed the GPU with sufficient bandwidth.
Speaking of the MS PDF document that cannot be seen by the public; isn't the 100% GPU efficiency thing just the AMD GNC1.0 or 2.0 architecture in the first place? Meaning that both the PS4 and Durango will have it. Unless MS decided to go with completely custom design...correct me if I'm wrong.
Looks like a standard GCN thing and not a Xbox thing.
It's a feature of GCN.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
The one that someone here found on a Microsoft website? A PDF of disclosure to their employees?
And another thing is that all leaks lead to the February 2012 London Durango meeting. Even the fact a Durango meeting happened was tweeted!
Yea, I thought so as well. Thanks.
Nah.
The info in that document would have been encrypted.
Could it be that guy from Crytek that tweeted about it and then deleted it? lol
McHuj
Member
I bet the eSRAM plays a big part in the efficiency. If managed properly (and that's a huge if), it should eliminate a lot of stall cycles from the GPU when data can't be prefetched into the L2 cache or caches are blown out.
Didn't he tweet something about it being two systems in one or some such nonsense?