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VGLeaks Rumor: Durango Memory System Overview & Example
- Thread starter Takuya
- Start date
phosphor112
Banned
Dev tools for PS3 have significantly gotten better. Vita also has an extremely large amount of documents for devs as well. I don't imagine the PS4 all of a sudden breaking that recent trend.
The difference between PS3 & PS4 is proper dev tools & documentation day one for everyone.
This is essentially what they did for Vita.
your opinion that the 360's ram setup is easier to use then durangos seems speculative and I have a hard time believing Microsoft would make durangos ram setup harder to use then the 360's.
missing those details does not make my point any less valid.
agreed but it can make the difference between gaming at 1080 vs playing at 720 or 60 to 30 fps for middle to late gen games depending if durango is showing its limitations first .
THE:MILKMAN
Member
And apparently, the main reason for a lot of devs now leading on PS3 is because it is actually quicker to make a game on PS3 and port it to 360.
It will be interesting to see how the Durango fairs even assuming quality docs. It seems it will require more balancing/juggling with eSRAM/more move engines etc...compared to PS4.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
I think MS focus was cost, you can compare the two consoles until your eyes bleed. When it comes down to it, MS can see a profit a lot sooner than Sony. It would have helped if they chose a wider bus for more bandwidth.
Oh, AMD/Nvidia don't use embedded memory because, power over efficiency always win.
But, I wouldn't mind a 7970 or 8000 series card with 32mb of low latency, high bandwidth EDRAM accompanied by 6gb GDDR5. Hopefully devs would support it. Devs would definitely find a way to use it, despite the bandwidth of GDDR5.
Oh, AMD/Nvidia don't use embedded memory because, power over efficiency always win.
But, I wouldn't mind a 7970 or 8000 series card with 32mb of low latency, high bandwidth EDRAM accompanied by 6gb GDDR5. Hopefully devs would support it. Devs would definitely find a way to use it, despite the bandwidth of GDDR5.
There is no documentation that it's easy either. Just the rumoured architecture which looks considerably more complex than PS4. Tiling decompression units, multiple DMA move engines, all presumably to get around the external ram bandwidth limitations. If those things are relatively automated, then great. But if not, and developers have to manually schedule when to move small chunks of memory around to get the most out of the esram, then it could take a long time for that to be properly tapped, and many developers may never fully do so. sounds a lot like PS3 and efficient SPE usage
Brad Grenz
Member
A closer analog is the PS2 where developers found using the Embedded Memory for VRAM to be a significant burden. This was in contrast to the original Xbox which was a true unified memory architecture (like the PS4) only without any of the advantages the PS2 had in fill rate and raw memory bandwidth. Obviously nothing so bad this time around since there is a lot more experience streaming assets, and Durango can still texture directly from the main memory, but that is a complication that PS4 devs will not have to worry about.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Brad Grenz
Member
An old survey of devs, most of which had probably never worked on either next gen system, and who just assumed MS would be easier because it had been in the past? And at a time when those who were in the know expected the PS4 to half half as much RAM? From a specification standpoint we know the PS4 hardware is simpler, with fewer apparent bottlenecks. We also know the PS3, PS Vita and PS Mobile development environments are all considered to be top notch at this point. If you redid the survey today I bet the results would be very different.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
You're assuming a lot yourself. Yes, the survey is old, but unless the architecture has completely changed over the last 9 months (and going by the rumors about the latest available specs, it hasn't), we know that Durango is at the very least relatively easy to work with, if not the easiest. The rest is just your speculation.
Out of curiousity, why would the next-box be easier to work with considering if we speculate off of the rumors thus far that they're basically similar chipsets, the PS4 having the better memory pool, a lower overhead, and an easy programming method that's PC like? Just a baked in party and mm system?
Like I mentioned previously, poor documentation and lack of proper tools only leads to frustration. If half of this stuff is automated and requires little effort, developers can get back to making games the way they want.
Yep.
Chuck Norris
Banned
How is a 33% improvement small?
phosphor112
Banned
Chuck Norris
Banned
Either way the gflops difference is bigger than what a PS3 or 360 can produce altogether
Shrugging it away as nothing is silly
I was talking about the visual differences the hardware would make would be small.
As opposed to some one saying in a similar thread it will be like ps2 vs xbox.
With these proposed leak specs the generation it has most in Common with is the 360 vs ps3 gen.
and i'am not shrugging , i'am saying it will be noting more then better AA and and slighty more pronounced and plentiful effects
Chuck Norris
Banned
And how do you validate these claims? Because the leaked specs indicate a bigger difference than PS3 and 360 shared
I said it has the most in common with the 360 vs ps3 gen, not that it was exactly the same
I expect the level of difference to somthing like this , with the Ps4 version being the PC version and the durango version being the PS4 version but minus the crappier textures
soulassssns
Banned
I said it has the most in common with the 360 vs ps3 gen, not that it was exactly the same
I expect the level of difference to somthing like this , with the Ps4 version being the PC version and the durango version being the PS4 version but minus the crappier textures
I'll stick with the pc version
Brad Grenz
Member
Like I said, it was from a time when everyone expected the PS4 would have half as much RAM. That may have seemed like a big challenge at the time. With that deficiency gone we have every reason to believe the PS4 hardware is easier to develop for. Durango may be "relatively" easy compared to the PS3, but it will also be the most complicated to develop for of the next generation.
It's not theoretical. Jeez this thread.
Now we have a junior posting gifs of PC and PS4 Unreal 4 demo. The pain is unbearable guys I know but you'll get over it hopefully.
Spinning Plates
Member
I guess we can expect 1440 x 1080 games on the next Xbox along with occasional slowdown and inferior IQ compared to its PS4 counterparts.
Theres nothing to let us believe that the level of durango's ease of use will be the reason for hindered game visuals and performance unlike the case with the ps3.
Maybe because the durango had 8gb from the get go some aspects may look better then the PS4 versions.
I said it has the most in common with the 360 vs ps3 gen, not that it was exactly the same
I expect the level of difference to somthing like this , with the Ps4 version being the PC version and the durango version being the PS4 version but minus the crappier textures
To me, I think the Unreal Engine 4 demo wasn't properly optimized in time for the PlayStation Meeting and not only that but it was on prototype hardware.
I posted that gif just to show the level of difference I think we will see between the durango and PS4.
Why does me being a junior change anything?
are you prejudice against juniors, is my opinion less valid or something?
lol
Durango is made with 1920x1080 gaming in mind. We should be more worried about performance rather than resolution.
I don't believe this to be true.
for a few reasons:
- It's a GPGPU so 600 extra GFLOPS can be used to create all types of effects that could set the consoles apart.
- The high end GPU's are around 4TFLOPS so the range isn't that big for GPU FLOPS that would make 600 a small number. so 600 GFLOPS is still a pretty big number when it come to GPU's
- The goal posts haven't moved much since the consoles had only 240GFLOPS GPU's so being that the consoles are going to be making 720P & 1080P games again 600 extra GFLOPS should be able to give the games a pretty big boost.
- The upgrade from Xbox 360 to the Xbox 3 is around 990 GFLOPS so a difference of 610GFLOPS between 2 consoles in the same generation is pretty big.
Do we know this for sure? It wouldn't surprise me if it had to be downgraded from PC to PS4 or if it was rushed for the meeting but I want to know where that's coming from. I also don't know how valid of a comparison that image is since it's not the same demo. The PC shot there is one of the main focuses of that tech demo and the PS4 demo was focused on the stuff that came after it.
So what sought of differences will it make make in games I personally think Reiko is on the money
To me the display planes aspect of the Durango hardware seems like they're expecting games to be upscaled to 1080p. The three planes can be used to keep a 1080p OS window, 1080p HUD, and a lower resolution game. Durango supposedly has a pretty good scaler so combining that with a full res HUD and the difference will likely be less obvious than in games this gen.
SniperHunter
Banned
epic removed real time gi from the engine, thats why ue4 looks bland on ps4
Realtime GI is still in.
That UE4 game with ghosts is using it.
...More importantly the game is designed around it.
It definitely still has real time GI, Daylight would be impossible without it since it's heavily based in lighting and is procedurally generated. It seems that it's just not voxel based any more.
no according to a dev making the horrer game on UE4, real time GI is still in, in edge it said they just removed voxel based gi
SniperHunter
Banned
good, crysis 3 uses gi even in low settings. i guess the demo was a rush job, especially with the lower res textures and all
Wouldn't more RAM allow for higher res textures?
Boss Man
Member
How do we know this? It was an anonymous survey from almost a year ago. Unless VGLeaks is just wrong (possible), I don't see how it could possibly be the easiest - which brings the entire thing into question. Relatively easy, sure that's plausible. I don't think there's going to be anything crazy going on.
I'm curious about this from the IGN thing too:
ScepticMatt
Member
I thought they removed the sparse voxel octree lightening solution, but they have cheaper GI solution in place.
SniperHunter
Banned
According industry insiderzz all demos shown last month were using 1.5 gb vram....so yeah with 6-7gb ram, the textures will look as good as the pc ver
That's an insane thought since I was really impressed by the textures in Shadow Fall.
Imagine how much better that UE4 demo would've looked/
SniperHunter
Banned
yeah things will get better with time, better streaming, 16x af....
It would but doesn't necessarily mean it will dramatically elevate it. I suppose the speculation derives from the fact that it is running a demo made for PC (therefore unoptimised for PS4) and that studios don't have final dev kits yet (according to vgleaks anyway). I do think half of it is also wishful thinking.
I wonder if we'll see an updated version of it at GDC.
SniperHunter
Banned
yeah things will get better with time, better streaming, 16x af....i was also impressed with the textures in shadow fall, they will probably use the ram to make bigger levels
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