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VGTech: Watch Dogs Legion 60fps Mode PS5 vs Xbox Series X|S Frame Rate Comparison

GuinGuin

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Bought the game a coupla days ago and I must say I'm shocked at the technical state of this game. This has got to be the worst cross-gen so far from a technical standpoint. Massive disappointment.

What are you playing it on? I thought it looked great on PS5 especially considering it probably has the most advanced and impressive world simulation every seen in a game. Every NPC is out there living a life unrelated to the actions of your character.
 

rickybooby87

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I am curious though, as to why, in this case, performance seems a little more solid on PS5, albeit at cost of native resolution (Both are upscaling anyways right?). The XSX is more than capable, is there some type of rule that says "Go for highest resolution first" over anything else on the XSX? I would think you'd want to balance resolution/performance. But, I watched the video, and I can't really tell the different all that easily upfront. I've noticed this exact same result in several other 3rd party titles.
 

GuinGuin

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I am curious though, as to why, in this case, performance seems a little more solid on PS5, albeit at cost of native resolution (Both are upscaling anyways right?). The XSX is more than capable, is there some type of rule that says "Go for highest resolution first" over anything else on the XSX? I would think you'd want to balance resolution/performance. But, I watched the video, and I can't really tell the different all that easily upfront. I've noticed this exact same result in several other 3rd party titles.

PS5 has always had a slight FPS advantage in multiplats. It's due to the higher clock speeds.

The Show: FPS Advantage for PS5
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-multi-platform-first-party-sony-title-tested
" All versions run with an unlocked frame-rate, capped only by v-sync at 60fps. Actual in-game action runs nigh-on locked at 60fps on PlayStation 5, and it's much the same on Series X - just a little less stable. However, it's in the games cutscenes (or 'presentations' rather) that San Diego Studio pushes graphics much harder. Frame-rate buckles on all machines and it's here that we see that Series X occasionally matches PS5, but more often drops harder - by a factor of around 9-11fps."


Avengers: Resolution and FPS advantage for PS5
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...arvels-avengers-next-gen-console-head-to-head
" PlayStation 5 can hold its 60fps a little tighter than the Xbox consoles during intense destruction"





Control: Series X Stutters PS5 Does Not
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...ltimate-edition-tested-on-ps5-xbox-series-x-s
"Series X exhibits some stutter not seen on PS5 - regardless of it being set to graphics or performance modes. It crops up with the arrival of UI elements on screen and in standard traversal, and can be distracting."

Hitman: FPS Advantage for PS5
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...as-a-4k-resolution-advantage-on-xbox-series-x
"Put simply, it's 60 frames per second... with just one exception in our hours of play. In the Mendoza mission set in Argentina, it is possible to see Xbox consoles run between 50 to 60fps around a field towards the outskirts of the level, while PlayStation 5 remains constant at 60fps."


Destiny 2: FPS Advantage PS5
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...ny-2-ps5-xbox-series-a-huge-performance-boost
"60fps performance is generally excellent on Series X too, but it does have some minor frame-rate drops from the target 60fps, while PlayStation 5 is slightly more consistent in this area. "


Assassin's Creed Valhalla FPS Advantage PS5
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...sassins-creed-valhalla-ps5-vs-xbox-series-x-s
"The key takeaway is that PlayStation 5 is much closer to the 60fps target more of the time, while Xbox Series X can struggle. In fact, at its worst, we noted PS5 delivering a 15 per cent performance advantage over its Microsoft equivalent in identical scenarios."


Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War FPS Advantage PS5
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-cod-black-ops-cold-war-series-x-s-ps5-tested
"Both Series X and PS5 deliver a great 120 frames per second experience, with no issues at all during the multiplayer mode and only minimal slowdown in the campaign - but curiously for this 120Hz mode, PS5 maintains a closer lock to the target frame-rate than Series X."


Note I didn't include PS4 BC games only true Next Gen releases. This makes total sense given the hardware advantages of the PS5 due to the higher GPU clocks. Having higher clocks on the GPU gives the PS5 a 20% advantage in triangle rasterization, Culling rate, and pixel fill rate.


Triangle rasterization
PS5 - 4 x 2.23 = 8.92 BT/s
XSX - 4 x 1.825 = 7.3 BT/s
20% advantage for PS5


Culling rate
PS5 - 8 x 2.23 GHz = 17.84 BT/s
XSX - 8 x 1.825 GHz = 14.6 BT/s
20% advantage for PS5


Pixel fill rate
PS5 - 64 x 2.23 - 142.72 GPixel/s
XSX - 64 x 1.825 - 116.8 GPixel/s
20% advantage for PS5
 

assurdum

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What does that have to do with FPS? More cus means more performance. More performance means more FPS or resolution. Depends on how the developers use it.
More CUs mean more shader units not more FPS in the gpu. High frequency in GPU could be more important than CUs counts for the FPS. Not sure where you get it more CUs more FPS performance. CUs are not tied to the whole GPU performance as clock frequency.
 
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GuinGuin

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More CUs mean more shader units not more FPS in the gpu. High frequency in GPU could be more important than CUs counts for the FPS. Not sure where you get it more CUs more FPS performance. CUs are not tied to the whole GPU performance as clock frequency.

That's correct. That is why PS5 is seeing small but consistent FPS advantages across nearly every title while Xbox X is seeing small resolution advantages in some titles.
 
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Imtjnotu

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Nov 4, 2017
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Oh man, compared to how PS4 and X1 were weak on release in 2013 this time around both PS5 and XsX are truly beasts.


Honestly,since both consoles are strong i can even see this gen lasts for 8 years (with PS5 pro around 2024, same cpu/ssd but around 40TF GPU)
crack drug GIF
 

DForce

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Nov 23, 2017
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One goes to 58fps and one goes to 57fps at a higher resolution, nobody will notice that at all ever. With VRR it becomes totally irrelevant, unlike the resolution difference which is always there.
I'm sure 99% of the people don't know when the resolution drops due to DRS. Without VG Tech and Digital Foundry, it would be rather difficult for us to know the difference.
 
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WoodyStare

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Good to see back ethomaz.

When Sony announced God of War and GT7 as cross gen last late week you disappeared for a few days. But as soon as someone posted R&C is only 33gb in size and WD2 has a bit better performance on PS5 you've been posting all weekend.

Welcome back.
Someone was even banned because they bumped a year old thread with him ridiculing MS for cross gen games. Too much crow.
 

SomeGit

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Apr 15, 2021
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Better performance and better AF… slightly lower resolution.

PS5 King.

PS. 675p lol I can be forgetting some game but I don’t remember my base PS4 ever reaching that low.
Not many PS4 games used DRS or aggressive enough in some cases, especially at 60fps. If they did you probably see a lot going lower than 675p. Instead they just dropped frames.

Look at ME collection, it drops to 900p lowest but you can get the frame rate in the low 40s.

But for some reason people love to shit post low DRS numbers, even if they are most of the times irrelevant.
 
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assurdum

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Not many PS4 games used DRS or aggressive enough in some cases, especially at 60fps. If they did you probably see a lot going lower than 675p. Instead they just dropped frames.

Look at ME collection, it drops to 900p lowest but you can get the frame rate in the low 40s.

But for some reason people love to shit post low DRS numbers, even if they are most of the times irrelevant.
Considered the CPU of the ps4 I doubt any kind of resolution drop could help it to reach 60 FPS in WD.
 
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Spidey Fan

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Me Casual gamer trying to understand frame rate, visuals and whatever gaming science going here. Still don't understand them.
smart GIF
 
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Kangx

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Anybody knowledgeable enough can explain why the frame time is significant gap more than frame rate in favor ps5. How important it is compare to framerate?
 
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RobRSG

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I got the PS5 version with all DLC for cheap yesterday.

Good game, and I can’t unsee how great the 30FPS mode looks.
 
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That's correct. That is why PS5 is seeing small but consistent FPS advantages across nearly every title while Xbox X is seeing small resolution advantages in some titles.
Yup. A GTX 1080 and GTX 1060 is the perfect example for this.

GTX 1080 has therotically 2 times more FP32 throughput than GTX 1060 (4.3 tf vs 8.6 tf)
Two times more CUs or SMs, in Nvidia's terms (10 vs 20)
Two times more shading units (1280 vs 2560)
Both have similar boost clocks (1.85-1.95 ghz)

Quite literally, a 1060 is half of a 1080 in many aspects.

On top of that a 1080 usually has 320 GB/s GDRR5x bandwidth against the 192 GB/s GDRR5 bandwidth of a 1060.

But in the end what happens? GTX 1080, in average, is only %60 faster than a 1060.

This tells us that more CUs/shading units do not correlate to much higher performance in every case. I bet similar performance difference between 6700xt and 6900xt can be found. You can bet the performance differences between them won't be like what theoritical values suggest.

There are other internal bottlenecks or performance limitations GPUs come across.

We've seen that 6700xt can beat the 3070 at 1080p/1440p because it has a whopping 2.5 GHz of boost clock, where as 3070 hails with a 1.9 Ghz and instead have more computational power in tow. Only at 4K with maxed out settings the 3070 reliably gets ahead of the 6700xt (and at that point, performance tanks to 30-40 FPS so it becomes pretty much pointless)

Since this generation of consoles will be pushing 1080-1440p 60 FPS modes, I gather it will take a skilled developer to keep Series X's high amount of CUs fed at lower resolutions. High 4K resolutions can by nature use more CUs more efficiently. But that efficiency seem to be lost on lower resolutions.
 
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SomeGit

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Considered the CPU of the ps4 I doubt any kind of resolution drop could help it to reach 60 FPS in WD.
Sure, but I was trying to focus more on GPU limited games. Like Bloodbourne could have had a 60fps mode at 1080p-720p DRS on PS4 Pro as the unofficial patch showed us,but it would probably give some people here an aneurysm "an upgraded console at only 720p!!!! Lmao".

It would have been the best way to play the game though.
 
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Someone was even banned because they bumped a year old thread with him ridiculing MS for cross gen games. Too much crow.
Well, what can you say, he picks his battles carefully. :lollipop_grinning:
I skimmed that thread. The first two pages were bad enough. I'm not skimming the other 6 pages. At least you wont hear him bring up cross gen ever again.
 
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Not many PS4 games used DRS or aggressive enough in some cases, especially at 60fps. If they did you probably see a lot going lower than 675p. Instead they just dropped frames.

Look at ME collection, it drops to 900p lowest but you can get the frame rate in the low 40s.

But for some reason people love to shit post low DRS numbers, even if they are most of the times irrelevant.
I want clear and definite resolution explanations from developers, then. I checked the video and it is clear that Series S can't even push 900p most of the time. It clearly looks sub 900p. Unless VG Tech or other reviewers decide to calculate an average resolution in a 5 minute gameplay session frame by frame, or developers announce an average resolution expectancy per console, I will regard the game as running at 720-810p. Because what I see is clearly sub 900p. Don't worry, I've played 720p-900p games long enough to differentiate them from native 1080p games. Slapping the term reconstructed in front of it does not make it 1080p-like all of a sudden.


Not even a 1660s/1070 is capable of hittting locked 60 FPS at 1080p. And you really expect me to believe that Series S pushes 1080p and 675p is an outlier? You just kid yourself.
 
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SomeGit

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I want clear and definite resolution explanations from developers, then. I checked the video and it is clear that Series S can't even push 900p most of the time. It clearly looks sub 900p. Unless VG Tech or other reviewers decide to calculate an average resolution in a 5 minute gameplay session frame by frame, or developers announce an average resolution expectancy per console, I will regard the game as running at 720-810p. Because what I see is clearly sub 900p. Don't worry, I've played 720p-900p games long enough to differentiate them from native 1080p games. Slapping the term reconstructed in front of it does not make it 1080p-like all of a sudden.


Not even a 1660s/1070 is capable of hittting locked 60 FPS at 1080p. And you really expect me to believe that Series S pushes 1080p and 675p is an outlier? You just kid yourself.
This looks sub 900p to me, says the guy looking at a compressed YouTube video.
 
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rickybooby87

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PS5 has always had a slight FPS advantage in multiplats. It's due to the higher clock speeds.

The Show: FPS Advantage for PS5
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-multi-platform-first-party-sony-title-tested
" All versions run with an unlocked frame-rate, capped only by v-sync at 60fps. Actual in-game action runs nigh-on locked at 60fps on PlayStation 5, and it's much the same on Series X - just a little less stable. However, it's in the games cutscenes (or 'presentations' rather) that San Diego Studio pushes graphics much harder. Frame-rate buckles on all machines and it's here that we see that Series X occasionally matches PS5, but more often drops harder - by a factor of around 9-11fps."


Avengers: Resolution and FPS advantage for PS5
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...arvels-avengers-next-gen-console-head-to-head
" PlayStation 5 can hold its 60fps a little tighter than the Xbox consoles during intense destruction"





Control: Series X Stutters PS5 Does Not
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...ltimate-edition-tested-on-ps5-xbox-series-x-s
"Series X exhibits some stutter not seen on PS5 - regardless of it being set to graphics or performance modes. It crops up with the arrival of UI elements on screen and in standard traversal, and can be distracting."

Hitman: FPS Advantage for PS5
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...as-a-4k-resolution-advantage-on-xbox-series-x
"Put simply, it's 60 frames per second... with just one exception in our hours of play. In the Mendoza mission set in Argentina, it is possible to see Xbox consoles run between 50 to 60fps around a field towards the outskirts of the level, while PlayStation 5 remains constant at 60fps."


Destiny 2: FPS Advantage PS5
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...ny-2-ps5-xbox-series-a-huge-performance-boost
"60fps performance is generally excellent on Series X too, but it does have some minor frame-rate drops from the target 60fps, while PlayStation 5 is slightly more consistent in this area. "


Assassin's Creed Valhalla FPS Advantage PS5
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...sassins-creed-valhalla-ps5-vs-xbox-series-x-s
"The key takeaway is that PlayStation 5 is much closer to the 60fps target more of the time, while Xbox Series X can struggle. In fact, at its worst, we noted PS5 delivering a 15 per cent performance advantage over its Microsoft equivalent in identical scenarios."


Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War FPS Advantage PS5
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-cod-black-ops-cold-war-series-x-s-ps5-tested
"Both Series X and PS5 deliver a great 120 frames per second experience, with no issues at all during the multiplayer mode and only minimal slowdown in the campaign - but curiously for this 120Hz mode, PS5 maintains a closer lock to the target frame-rate than Series X."


Note I didn't include PS4 BC games only true Next Gen releases. This makes total sense given the hardware advantages of the PS5 due to the higher GPU clocks. Having higher clocks on the GPU gives the PS5 a 20% advantage in triangle rasterization, Culling rate, and pixel fill rate.


Triangle rasterization
PS5 - 4 x 2.23 = 8.92 BT/s
XSX - 4 x 1.825 = 7.3 BT/s
20% advantage for PS5


Culling rate
PS5 - 8 x 2.23 GHz = 17.84 BT/s
XSX - 8 x 1.825 GHz = 14.6 BT/s
20% advantage for PS5


Pixel fill rate
PS5 - 64 x 2.23 - 142.72 GPixel/s
XSX - 64 x 1.825 - 116.8 GPixel/s
20% advantage for PS5

Yeah that's what I am basically talking about, I just find it odd that XSX developers would still target a higher overall resolutions instead of solid/consistent play. It's weird. In AC Valhalla, they lowered the DRS window so that it wouldn't tank so hard.
 

TonyK

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I was playing in a few days ago and the quality difference between 30 and 60 fps is H U G E ... it literally looks like generic shit once on 60 fps mode...

Clearly they can do a lot better.... and follow Insomniac's approach for both consoles...


W E A K and a huge letdown...
Spiderman also looks like PS4 in 60fps. Problem is not developers, is to aim for those fucking extra 30fps that demolish the extra power new consoles have.
 

SomeGit

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Apr 15, 2021
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This can only be explained by sub 900p resolutions. Sorry but I never saw such bad artifacts at 1080p.
That's a lower res texture dude, the edges on the 3D models don't match the edges on the texture.

To find the resolution you'd have to find diagonal angles on models and count the stairsteps, preferably over scene changes to avoid any reconstruction tecnique.
 
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01011001

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Mines moving down to 118.00 at times just walking around, didn't need to even get in a car.

ok that's weird. I wonder if VRR only works in 120hz mode in this game then. I'll try later and see if it works on my end as well

yeah, I set it to 120hz, and it actually now runs with freesync no problem... weird

have you tried setting yours to 60hz and see if it works?

my TV is an HDMI 2.0 TV that supports freesync ultimate. so I wonder if a TV with HDMI2.1 VRR works with it at 60hz
 
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I still will take better resolution that you always notice than a few frame dips that last milliseconds at times. It always confuses me when people opt for an extra frame or two at random times versus a higher resolution you see at all times.
 

Fredrik

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But for some reason people love to shit post low DRS numbers, even if they are most of the times irrelevant.
People just love to shit post, period. About tiny dips in framerate only noticeable in a graph, tiny resolution differences only noticeable with a pixel counter, low af only noticeable with 200% zoom. That’s just how it is now. Try to not overthink it and you’ll stay happier. 👍
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
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yeah, I set it to 120hz, and it actually now runs with freesync no problem... weird

have you tried setting yours to 60hz and see if it works?

my TV is an HDMI 2.0 TV that supports freesync ultimate. so I wonder if a TV with HDMI2.1 VRR works with it at 60hz

I'll have a look 👍
 

ethomaz

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Good to see back ethomaz.

When Sony announced God of War and GT7 as cross gen last late week you disappeared for a few days. But as soon as someone posted R&C is only 33gb in size and WD2 has a bit better performance on PS5 you've been posting all weekend.

Welcome back.
Actually I was in hospital… even heard about Dengue? I left the hospital last Tuesday.

BTW it is being a wonderful start of gen for PS band… I can play exclusives each few months and the good vibes and news keep rolling frequently.

It is really not being a good start of gen for you, no? Maybe if you change sides you can start to understand how PS fans feels great even with all green FUD attempts.
 
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ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
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Not many PS4 games used DRS or aggressive enough in some cases, especially at 60fps. If they did you probably see a lot going lower than 675p. Instead they just dropped frames.

Look at ME collection, it drops to 900p lowest but you can get the frame rate in the low 40s.

But for some reason people love to shit post low DRS numbers, even if they are most of the times irrelevant.
I’m not sure… is it not PS4 a 1.84 TFs with Jaguar cores?

Series S delivery is really shocking shame… it can’t even be compared with last gen base machines… who thought that abomination was a good ideia should be fired imo.

And people thought Xbox One was underpowered lol
 
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Md Ray

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One thing I noticed was the XSS/XSX scaling seems about right. The lowest in detected dynamic res is about half (675 vs 1330). That's the same half as 1080 vs 2160 (obv results in 1/4 the pixels as it's in both axes). Seems fine to me.
Series S has lower qlty LOD on top.
 

SomeGit

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I’m not sure… it is not PS4 a 1.84 TFs with Jaguar cores?

Series S delivery is really shocking shame… it can’t even be compared with last gen base machines… who thought that abomination was a good ideia should be fired imo.

And people thought Xbox One was underpowered lol
They both retail at the same price right now, 299€/$ depending on market.
Kinda hilarious when you think about it.
 
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vaibhavpisal

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Jun 10, 2019
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I’m not sure… is it not PS4 a 1.84 TFs with Jaguar cores?

Series S delivery is really shocking shame… it can’t even be compared with last gen base machines… who thought that abomination was a good ideia should be fired imo.

And people thought Xbox One was underpowered lol

Have you seen last gen machines compared side by side against series x/ ps5? Even YouTube doesn't hide differences.

I will ask again, did you saw the video or are just hanging onto a number thrown around.

Series S has lower qlty LOD on top.

Keep Series S out of console wars please. If you want to split hairs, pick on Series x all you want.

It's clearly not made to win any numbers game. Games play smooth on it and look good. That's all that matters.
 
Dec 10, 2020
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Keep Series S out of console wars please. If you want to split hairs, pick on Series x all you want.
Why? It is "next-gen" console after all. There is no need ignore it in game comparisons. Then go to DF, NXG and VGTech and say to them to not include XSS in comparison. After all, MS said that difference in games between the XSS and X will be only in resolution. Let us see was MS right in that. So far, no.
 
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