• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Video explains why the animation of Mortal Kombat X (and Injustice) looks weird

I'm wondering why Mass Effect Andromeda got ripped to shreds over animation but Mortal Kombat got a free pass and sold bajillions.

Great question. I was thinking about the same thing actually. It's probably because blood, violence and gore have aways been Mortal Kombat's primary selling points. Most fans probably care more for over-the-top violence and fatalities over smooth, realistic animations and I think the they got accustomed to the animations. Mass Effect is more about the interaction with the characters, storytelling and action where I guessing more gamers find it more noticeable, especially when it looked better in past games?
 

J 0 E

Member
The video is on point

I always feel NRS games animations was weird and stiff and now I know why, Injustice 2 is a clear example of a good looking project ruined by animations and that's why I can't enjoy it

Animation is a major aspect in fighting games, the king of this is SFV imo
 

Khezu

Member
I'm wondering why Mass Effect Andromeda got ripped to shreds over animation but Mortal Kombat got a free pass and sold bajillions.

Because MK is filled with a combination of stiff, bad, hilariously goofy animations with some decent ones, and some really cool ones all thrown together.

As an overall package it has enough cool animations for most people to overlook the bad ones. It also doesn't have anything that looks clearly broken or glitchy like ME looks.
Not to mention the story cinematic animations are usually alright, and that's what most casuals are going to care about.

Well Mass Effect Andromeda is a very though dumpster fire of a game, and since every single thing about it sucks, the public was very quick to dog pile it, and when that happens, they tend to become more noticing of things like bad animation, and will become extra nit picky.

There was a lot of goofy shit in the past ME games, but people overlooked it because those games were good and had redeeming qualities, Andromeda has nothing, other then giving people joy in making fun of it.
 
In what way exactly?

I do agree with him that the sound design doesn't really stand out in the MK games. Like if you listen to other fighters, the hit sounds sound more "explosive", while MK sounds muted (Injustice definitely does) and mushy on the fleshier hits. It is hard to describe or really put your finger on. Also on really important hits like crush counters in SF5, it has a loud impactful sound that you can use as a cue to confirm what is going. Hitting blocks also have a thud compared to landing a clean hit is another important thing, though iirc MKX does differentiate the 2 sounds it isn't as pronounced. Guilty Gear also is good sound design imo, each time someone jumps there is a distinct sound, same for air dashing, and when they roman cancel it has a "shing". In MK games, I really can't think of many distinct sounds, there is some "voosh" sound for EX moves, but it compares nothing to the sound of an EX in SF games or an FADC for example.
 

jett

D-Member
And Tobal 2?

I play Tobal 2 every now and then!

And it has better animated low kicks than Mortal Kombat.

QZ7BWcd.gif
 

Finaika

Member
Hmm? Didn't Mortal Kombat and even Injustice literally outsell every modern fighter out there?

Sorry, I meant hardcore FGC not filthy casuals. Hardcore FGC care less about NetherRealm fighting games (see the MvC:I thread which is much bigger than Injustice 2's despite being made more recently).
 
The worst part of it all (which he does mention) is that they get it right in the cinematics. Their reveal trailer was a mock-up battle, which pretty much showcases what the game would look like with proper animations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2daAAK5qWo

It's obviously still MK, but movement looks like it has weight and momentum. I don't think anyone would complain if battles actually looked like that.
 

Head.spawn

Junior Member
I'm wondering why Mass Effect Andromeda got ripped to shreds over animation but Mortal Kombat got a free pass and sold bajillions.

You've kind of phrased this in a way to make them directly comparable, but the people who dropped an unwieldy deuce all over Andromeda were on it about damn near every aspect of the game; not just the animation.
 

Wild Card

Member
While certainly not the only reason I dislike and don't play MK games, it's certainly one of the bigger ones and not something that I could overlook. Puts that feeling into words. I need a gif of Zangief's standing fierce punch in V.
 
Great video. Glad it was made. One day nrs games won't be stiff as hell. I'll probably be dead though. I want another studio to take a crack at animating MK characters.
 

TheOGB

Banned
I've always chalked this up to emulating their roots, and in that way I found it silly at best.

『Inaba Resident』;235505812 said:
Nothing about it being "photorealistic" demands why something should look like this. In fact, it being photorealistic just makes it even more mind boggling.

VainDecentBelugawhale.gif
but these fucking low kicks weird me out

A.B.I. does get a little nitpicky here and there, but he makes solid points.
 

ChouGoku

Member
This video is perfect. MK9 and MKX are actually a pretty fun fighting games but the animations are terrible. I couldn't explain it but this video does a good job of explaining why they are so bad. My dream game for a while has been a fighting game with graphics and story by Netherrealm and animation by a japanese company.
 

Sayad

Member
The worst part of it all (which he does mention) is that they get it right in the cinematics. Their reveal trailer was a mock-up battle, which pretty much showcases what the game would look like with proper animations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2daAAK5qWo

It's obviously still MK, but movement looks like it has weight and momentum. I don't think anyone would complain if battles actually looked like that.
That trailer was made by Digital Dimension, a CG animation studio, not NRS. And a lot of MK's animation problems are still there too.
 
While I agree with the video that MK animation is ass tier. But they sell so much more copies compared to other brands like Street fighter, guilty gear, kof etc I highly think they will ever put anymore work on animation.
 

Renekton

Member
You've kind of phrased this in a way to make them directly comparable, but the people who dropped an unwieldy deuce all over Andromeda were on it about damn near every aspect of the game; not just the animation.
MEA's massive animation fiasco happened way before the post-embargo reviews dissecting the gameplay and story.
 

Mister Wolf

Member
While I agree with the video that MK animation is ass tier. But they sell so much more copies compared to other brands like Street fighter, guilty gear, kof etc I highly think they will ever put anymore work on animation.

They have their priorities in order.
 

Sheroking

Member
While I agree with the video that MK animation is ass tier. But they sell so much more copies compared to other brands like Street fighter, guilty gear, kof etc I highly think they will ever put anymore work on animation.

The problem is "sales" aren't the only measure that's important these days.

MK and SF have been the two staple fighting game franchises in the 2D landscape for as long as fighting games have been a genre, but Street Fighter games live a lot longer, have larger and more passionate player-bases beyond the first few months and for that reason Street Fighter is a reasonably sized esport and MK isn't. It's not like this isn't important, either. Netherrealm really tried to make MKX a bigger esport than it would up being with big pot-bonuses and a partnership with ESL. It was borderline dead within 6 months.

So as MKX sells it's 5 million copies and then dies on the vine, Netherrealm goes into production on it's next expensive game while Capcom continually sells copies of Street Fighter, pushes DLC for years to hundreds of thousands of players and makes something off the pro tour and their various esports partnerships. Whether that pays off for them more now, probably not, but when they release a Street Fighter or Marvel game without that negative publicity, like Street Fighter 4, they'll profit on it in the long run and their fans will be better served.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Lengthy 18 minute video explains it perfectly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t06Dkdg6fEo

Okay, so the video title is a bit stronger than mine. :p It's basically down to off-putting idle animation, poor key poses and weak-looking attacks (that don't take into consideration how the human body should actually move).

If you've always disliked the animation in Netherealm's games but could never get it into words, this video is for you.

Originally posted by mbpm1 in the Fighting Games community thread, but I thought it deserved a thread of its own.

Some characters move as if they were clubbing/dancing with the arms, upper body, and torso, but not moving their feet...
 

Jaeger

Member
people are still playing Mortal Kombat 2.

Let me help you. The characters do not animate/move/punch/kick like they do in modern MK titles as they did in MK2. People keep trying to claim this "imitating old school" B.S. but that kitana kick ain't in it. Lol
 
Third Strike had such damn good animations. I still play it on my dreamcast or Xbox. Too bad NRS won't really change up their animation game as yeah, it does look silly and just not right in a lot of cases. Great video.
 

Inviusx

Member
So as MKX sells it's 5 million copies and then dies on the vine, Netherrealm goes into production on it's next expensive game while Capcom continually sells copies of Street Fighter, pushes DLC for years to hundreds of thousands of players and makes something off the pro tour and their various esports partnerships. Whether that pays off for them more now, probably not, but when they release a Street Fighter or Marvel game without that negative publicity, like Street Fighter 4, they'll profit on it in the long run and their fans will be better served.

MK games don't "die on the vine" because they get dropped by esports. MKX as a video game is a complete package that justifies its price tag. It's embarassing that you're comparing it to SFV, a game that Capcom squirted out in such an incomplete state that people are still waiting on basic features like a proper arcade mode AND had the balls to put it out at full price.

I don't have anything against Capcom fans, Street Fighter is awesome but SFV is an absolute train wreck.
 

vsbizarro

Banned
Lengthy 18 minute video explains it perfectly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t06Dkdg6fEo

Okay, so the video title is a bit stronger than mine. :p It's basically down to off-putting idle animation, poor key poses and weak-looking attacks (that don't take into consideration how the human body should actually move).

If you've always disliked the animation in Netherealm's games but could never get it into words, this video is for you.

Originally posted by mbpm1 in the Fighting Games community thread, but I thought it deserved a thread of its own.

Nice =o
 

petran79

Banned
Reminds me of the time when MK4 competed with VF2 and Tekken 3 at the arcades. Things havent changed since then (Except no VF)


One reason I preferred Mace the Dark Age, which was a masterpiece compared to MK4.
 

vg260

Member
Even if they did they probably won't do anything. Thier games sell well due to the casual hook so why would they spend more time and resources on animation?

So they will be even better received and sell even more, obviously. Look at all the people here who say they would actually get MKX if not for the animation (unless they are being disingenuous). If there is an even bigger group outside if this forum who feel the same, it's worth it to capture that audience who have some interest in it.

As noted before the last few games were some of the best selling fighters despite janky models, bad faces and horrible netcode, and yet they completely overhauled their netcode for an already launched game (which is a rarity), and greatly improved their face and body modeling for I2. These are examples that they do listen to the negative feedback. It's not out of the question if people's main complaint now is animation, and there are some concrete examples of what's off, rather than just, "their animation sucks and is so stiff". It just might take some time depending on their process and habits.
 

Kaleinc

Banned
Boon like:

M5Y00Ah.gif


MK and all NRS sruff is animated like shit, just slightly better than that gif. It's not only animation though.

People who know what they're doing (aka professionals) employ multiple techniques including but not limited to: hit stop, motion blur, camera shake, change of camera angle, slo mo to create sense of impact, power, speed etc. Movies do this too so no need for 'it's stylized ' bs.
By the way Samsung phones sell well until they explode inside your pants - with your balls (neat fatality idea).
 

Jaeger

Member
Just booted up MK1-Ultimate. When they perform a low kick they place their hands down and their upper torso weight as they extend their leg and kick. And this is just one instance that differs from the nonsense a few are trying to sell.
 
The problem is "sales" aren't the only measure that's important these days.

MK and SF have been the two staple fighting game franchises in the 2D landscape for as long as fighting games have been a genre, but Street Fighter games live a lot longer, have larger and more passionate player-bases beyond the first few months and for that reason Street Fighter is a reasonably sized esport and MK isn't. It's not like this isn't important, either. Netherrealm really tried to make MKX a bigger esport than it would up being with big pot-bonuses and a partnership with ESL. It was borderline dead within 6 months.

So as MKX sells it's 5 million copies and then dies on the vine, Netherrealm goes into production on it's next expensive game while Capcom continually sells copies of Street Fighter, pushes DLC for years to hundreds of thousands of players and makes something off the pro tour and their various esports partnerships. Whether that pays off for them more now, probably not, but when they release a Street Fighter or Marvel game without that negative publicity, like Street Fighter 4, they'll profit on it in the long run and their fans will be better served.

What's the point of this post? What does this have to do with animation?

On this subject, Capcom probably wishes their games died as fast as Mortal Kombat. They wouldn't have to deal with their games cannibalizing each other. When Ono made the claim that SFV wasn't going to come out until 2019 that wasn't because of the DLC revenue from SF4. I mean, the last version of Street Fighter 4, Ultra Street Fighter 4, was built off of salvaging Street Fighter x Tekken's failure. It was an unintended, extended life. Do you seriously think that that was the preferable situation?


Also I got a good laugh at the suggestion that Capcom, the company that is spitting out Marvel Infinite in less than a year...the compnay releasing HDR on Switch for 40 bucks, is playing the long game.
 

Khezu

Member
Just booted up MK1-Ultimate. When they perform a low kick they place their hands down and their upper torso weight as they extend their leg and kick. And this is just one instance that differs from the nonsense a few are trying to sell.

Yes, the animation has more in common with the really bad 3D years then they do the old 2D games.

There is still a whole bunch of left over jank from those 3D games left in how they deign games that needs to be scrubbed out.
 

Sheroking

Member
MK games don't "die on the vine" because they get dropped by esports. MKX as a video game is a complete package that justifies its price tag. It's embarassing that you're comparing it to SFV, a game that Capcom squirted out in such an incomplete state that people are still waiting on basic features like a proper arcade mode AND had the balls to put it out at full price.

I don't have anything against Capcom fans, Street Fighter is awesome but SFV is an absolute train wreck.

Street Fighter V, "absolute train wreck" or not, will be a popular esport and have a decent online population of players long after Injustice 2 is rendered irrelevant. Just like SF4 outlived 4 different NRS games for this reason.

What's the point of this post? What does this have to do with animation?

Since you're too lazy to follow the quote train: some posters pointed out Mortal Kombat's sales success and whether or not the criticisms of the video matter or hurt them in any way.

My post pointed out that these games have no lasting appeal and are borderline irrelevant after their launch period ends. Their popularity with casuals and non-enthusiasts doesn't translate into longevity or esports success, and that's where the money is going to be long term.

I brought up neither the sales success or the comparison to SF. I just responded to it.

On this subject, Capcom probably wishes their games died as fast as Mortal Kombat. They wouldn't have to deal with their games cannibalizing each other. When Ono made the claim that SFV wasn't going to come out until 2019 that wasn't because of the DLC revenue from SF4. I mean, the last version of Street Fighter 4, Ultra Street Fighter 4, was built off of salvaging Street Fighter x Tekken's failure. It was an unintended, extended life. Do you seriously think that that was the preferable situation?

Street Fighter 4 existed almost entirely in the early days of FGC esports. There was no Red Bull, ESPN and TBS. There was no "long game" to be played until Capcom invested in CPT and entirely focused SF5 on the esport scene.

Do I think it's preferable to have a game live and profit for years as an esport now rather than sell a few million copies and immediately go into your next 8 figure production? Yeah. So do Riot, Valve and Blizzard.

Also Igot a good laugh at the suggestion that Capcom, the company that is spitting out Marvel Infinite in less than a year...the compnay releasing HDR on Switch for 40 bucks, is playing the long game.

Marvel is not to Street Fighter what Injustice is to MK. Different franchises with different, if sometimes overlapping, audiences.

A remaster or classic game re-release is just not going to cut into any of their SF5 business, anymore than MK Trilogy cut into MKX.

Surely you must see that SF5 is likely to outlive any NRS game as a profit engine for DLC and as an esport.
 

Massaki

Neo Member
I really did not like MKX at all. The new characters were great, but the story was weak, the soundtrack was weak, a lot of the alt costumes are horribly modeled, the Krypt having jumpscares was a cheap way to get people to purchase the Unlock Everything DLC, the factions were useless, the unlock-able content was lacklustre and completely uninteresting, the fatalities are more just "shocking" rather than clever or cool, the stages are bland and the overall design/aesthetic of the game is just boring compared to MK9.
 
I watched the video and it's explained so thoroughly I can't really argue against it, but I feel like some of the "slapping" animations he refers to are a stylistic thing. I dunno, I've just always thought a lot of the animations are designed to resemble the originals, which also looked like the characters were leaning awkwardly and slapping the opponent.

But yeah, very interesting video. Thanks for sharing.
 
My post pointed out that these games have no lasting appeal and are borderline irrelevant after their launch period ends. Their popularity with casuals and non-enthusiasts doesn't translate into longevity or esports success, and that's where the money is going to be long term.

Maybe you have a point. I did some research and found this

MKX vs SFV on steam


Geez look at that difference in playerbase. These garbage NRS games can't retain players at all.


Wait let me compare it to other games for better context


MKX vs SFV vs For Honor vs American Truck Simulator on steam


lol

ok since this is about longevity let me compare it to an old multiplayer game. And an indie game since those die out quickly.

MKX vs SFV vs CS: Source vs Stardew Valley on steam


lol

Ok. How about this comparison?


MKX vs SFV vs an actual esports game





What exactly are you boasting about again?
 

Head.spawn

Junior Member
MEA's massive animation fiasco happened way before the post-embargo reviews dissecting the gameplay and story.

We had a lot of dissecting way before reviews hit. Xbox One EA Early Access was like a week ahead of review embargo IIRC.

I still contend that simply summarizing all of the "problem" critiques Adromeda was getting down to solely "animation" is not accurate.
 

zoodoo

Member
Can someone twit this thread to Ed Boon? I dont use twitter but I would love Boon to react to it. I love MK but the animation is sometimes atrocious. I give it a pass cause of the cool characters and all but I cant stand it in Injustice.

I would love that to change so I can enjoy more of their games.
 

MrCarter

Member
The idea that it's emulating old kung fu movies doesn't even make any sense because kung fu actors are beholden to weight, gravity, and balance. Throwing those things out the window is not a homage to them- it's a rejection of them by way of rejecting how human bodies actually move and behave.

Adhering to reasonable physics when animating something has absolutely nothing to do with making something "realistic" no more than making sure to program proper collisions so the player doesn't fall through the floor against their will has anything to do with "realism." These are simply the basic principles- the technical mechanics you need to perform to actually be good at your job- and they do not interfere with the ability to exaggerate actions. Art Babbit broke Goofy's legs during a walk cycle, but you can still see he didn't move Goofy's upper body past his center of gravity unless he wanted him off balance. Because it would stupid and unprofessional and unconvincing and he'd probably be fired for not fixing it.

Animation is defined by weight, gravity, balance, acceleration, kinetic energy, and arcs long before it is defined by "what looks cool." This bar raises substantially when you're dealing with 3D because with it comes a higher threshold of immersion by way of the medium. Physics is king in animation and no amount of appeal to style by laymen is going to change that.

Brilliant post. This thread has been a very interesting read and has been a real eye-opener in the world of not just fighting game animation but animation as a whole. It's clear that having the basic principles and fundamentals of animation is crucial for anything to have longevity in this industry.
 

jennetics

Member
The video put it into words in ways that I couldn't, great job.

I'm sure it comes down to Netherrealms not wanting to change the way the old MKs looked/felt, which is a bummer because MK needs a makeover big time.
 

tsab

Member
Great video! I couldn't point grasp myself why the animation looks weird, the video helped

At first I thought it was a Unreal Engine
3
limitation, but the video makes some excellent points.


Yes, I know NRS uses a heavily customized UE3 engine.
 
Top Bottom