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|OT| Why gamers complain about their games being taken away |OT| Censorship Controversy Central

Shantae

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Did anybody get Atelier Ryza on the Ps4? Does it have censorship?
I have it on my PS4, I didn’t notice any censorship.
Yeah, Koei Tecmo doesn't seem to have much of a record of self censorship, except maybe not releasing DOA Xtreme 3 in the west.

I haven't played Atelier Ryza yet, but if its like any other Atelier games, what would they even censor? Thighs? Even Sony knows they would get some shit for censoring thighs.
 

SLoWMoTIoN

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Yeah, Koei Tecmo doesn't seem to have much of a record of self censorship, except maybe not releasing DOA Xtreme 3 in the west.

I haven't played Atelier Ryza yet, but if its like any other Atelier games, what would they even censor? Thighs? Even Sony knows they would get some shit for censoring thighs.

 
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Barakov

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I'm playing through Trails of Cold Steel 3 and I can feel the NISA-ness of the translation from time to time, especially during voiced dialogues.
Let's hope Nihon Falcom wake the fuck up and give back the series to Xseed.

Bonus image:

What a mess NISA is. I guess when I get around to Trails III I'll import it.
 

MagnesG

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I'm playing through Trails of Cold Steel 3 and I can feel the NISA-ness of the translation from time to time, especially during voiced dialogues.
Let's hope Nihon Falcom wake the fuck up and give back the series to Xseed.

Bonus image:

Well fuck ém.

Fuck.
 
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Jun 26, 2013
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I'm playing through Trails of Cold Steel 3 and I can feel the NISA-ness of the translation from time to time, especially during voiced dialogues.
Let's hope Nihon Falcom wake the fuck up and give back the series to Xseed.

Bonus image:

Woke-alization at its finest. The inserting memes when they don't belong in the game reminds me so much of the nonsense Treehouse did a few years ago.
 
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Playstation 5 will be a mess of California SJW MeToo standards. I think the only chance at uncensored games on consoles in the west is Nintendo. Playstation has lost it’s crown as a powerful Japanese console, it’s just an American console now.

Buy Nintendo for Japanese games. What’s the point of a PS5 anymore if you can’t even import uncensored games because America is censoring the Japanese Devs even for Japanese Exclusive releases??

The Japanese Playstation died years ago, but post-PS4 launch. PS5 should be boycotted.
There has been a huge hoopla over Horizon allegedly going to PC and people are speculating what that means for Sony's other 1st party games. Either way, it does put a significant damper on the PS5's unique value proposition and combine that with Sony's censorship it just makes it an unappealing platform.

For me personally, the few things that prevent me from 100% dropping Playstation are Atlus/Vanillaware games. But imo, it's only a matter of when, not if, they eventually release on PC.
 
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Pejo

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There has been a huge hoopla over Horizon allegedly going to PC and people are speculating what that means for Sony's other 1st party games. Either way, it does put a significant damper on the PS5's unique value proposition and combine that with Sony's censorship it just makes it an unappealing platform.

For me personally, the few things that prevent me from 100% dropping Playstation are Atlus/Vanillaware games. But imo, it's only a matter of when, not if, they eventually release on PC.
Man I fucking hope so. You can already emulate all of the games, most of them even have HD texture packs (Muramasa is especially awesome). I'd still double/triple dip if official PC releases ever happened, instantly.

In other news, every time I see advertising for #FE Encore, I am reminded that they chose the awful localized version and it disappoints me.
 

JunkerWoland

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With regards to NISA, I find the company's need to make every translation they touch a jokey mess more reprehensible than whatever material they presumably toned-down due to lack of cultural appropriateness. No Japanese-to-English localization is perfect, but NISA was the very last company I wanted to see get Falcom titles. It probably says something that I found their initial, quick-and-dry translation of Ys 8 better than their supposedly superior updated version. At the end of the day, though, it's Falcom's fault; instead of trying to cultivate a Western consumer base with quality releases that don't significantly lag behind their Japanese counterparts, they'd rather cash-in with the crowd that just wants the next goofy anime game.
 
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cm osi

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I'm playing through Trails of Cold Steel 3 and I can feel the NISA-ness of the translation from time to time, especially during voiced dialogues.
Let's hope Nihon Falcom wake the fuck up and give back the series to Xseed.

Bonus image:

do we know if any scene got removed or the kind of changed they made?
 

JunkerWoland

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do we know if any scene got removed or the kind of changed they made?
The game released this past October and with the series having a fairly passionate fanbase, it's reasonable to assume any removed content would have been spotted, at this point. The game also retains the same swimsuit DLC available on Japanese PSN (admittedly, one item was initially, mysteriously missing) and added a swimsuit set that could only be obtained in Japan by purchasing a related game guide. In this instance, it does seem like the only potential alterations are possibly deliberate tweaks to the dialogue.
 
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Realistically, does anyone know how many users or sales all these anime kind of censorship ordeals really affects?

Are we talking about 5,000,000 game sales strewn across games with risque content?
 

SLoWMoTIoN

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Realistically, does anyone know how many users or sales all these anime kind of censorship ordeals really affects?

Are we talking about 5,000,000 game sales strewn across games with risque content?
BORN TO DIE / WORLD IS A FUCK / Kill Em All 2016 / I am trash localizer / 410,757,864,530 DEAD WEEBS
 
Aug 6, 2010
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NIS America does not engage in censorship or overzealous editing. We stand by our dedication to the authenticity of our localization efforts to properly contextualize a title within a localized framework for an English-speaking audience.
Erin Kim | *Public Relations Coordinator *
*NIS America, Inc.*
Genius hasn't realized that we know ALL the shit they've pulling since they've been established...
 
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JunkerWoland

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I'm surprised NISA issued a response. Kudos to their PR manager, though: "NIS America does not engage in censorship or overzealous editing," which is where many people stop reading, pleased with the answer and ignoring the remaining PR speak of how they do make intent changes but under the chaotic banner called localization.

The likely reality with Cold Steel 3 is there's no big smoking gun, rather the game's inline with the current (and frustrating) industry trend of adjusting material for sensitivity. While I'm not a fan and consider it censorship, many consumers have accepted the use of localization as a separate process meant to realign a product to what's perceived as their own cultural or personal values. Ultimately, it's a fight between wanting a product's original intent retained in one's own language or desiring a divergent vision reshaped by one's own social mores--in my experience with NISA, they usually lean towards the later.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

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Since we're talking about NISA...


Absolutely asinine. Not sure when it was okay to completely ignore context and consider any reference to "trap" as being "transphobic" started, but it is really fucking grating. Trap has been used as a term of endearment in the anime community for decades and has actively helped real trans folks and cross dressers come out and do their thing. Fucking cunts who try to censor it are only showing their own ignorance.

As for the topic of censorship, it seems Pat is wrong yet again in the latest Castle SuperBeast (formerly SuperBestFriends) podcast:
 
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Gargus

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I just dont like games being censored that are rated M. It's the equivalent of rated R meaning your supposed to be 18 to be playing or watching it. Now I can see tits, sex, and ding dongs in rated R movies so why is it bad to have them in games?

I can saw someone in half but I better not see them nude? Just makes no sense to me.

I dont censorship as a rule anyway in anything. Even if I dont like it I'd rather see someone not be censored because I can simply just not watch/listen to it.
 
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TMS Encore only sold 18.8K units first week in Japan. Censorship definitely played a role in its low sales.

 
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outrageousfacts.wordpress.com
Like I wrote in the Resetera-thread:

Here's the thing: TMS is basically a Persona-game with idols as its core theme. Both are popular in Japan. And it's on a handheld, too! Saying 'nobody wanted this game' is pure nonsensical deflection, because Resetera refuses to admit the real cause: censorship.

Would it have been a mega seller uncensored? No. But it'd have been a solid 50k FW sales instead of 18k.

And It's not about 'no sexy costumes'. As these people ridiculingly use the term 'vagina bones', fact is: Someone at Nintendo Treehouse looked at TMS and went: "Omg, a 17 yo anime girl having hip bone shadows?! That's a big nono! Away with it!". It is *that* attitude and work philosophy I , and apparently many other potential audience members, do NOT want to support. And this games audience was weebs! Those *do* care about stuff like censorship, ya know.

Ofc, there's a lot more censorship than just 1-2 censored costumes, but Resetera's pro-censorship crowd won't even look at that. Whatever. I'm happy about this bomba, sends a clear message to Nintendo. :]
 
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petran79

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Currently I am reading Viz version of detective Conan manga, 16 rating and the girls are depicted in their swimsuits with every detail.

It seems as if video game 18 rating standard is equal to teen rating standard for movies and TV series.

Eg Kill la Kill IF has characters wear underwear in the nudity scenes,unlike the anime. Yet both are m rated.

Do they consider interactivity to be the deciding factor instead of the themes and visuals?
 
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OutrageousFacts OutrageousFacts
Currently I am reading Viz version of detective Conan manga, 16 rating and the girls are depicted in their swimsuits with every detail.

It seems as if video game 18 rating standard is equal to teen rating standard for movies and TV series.

Eg Kill la Kill IF has characters wear underwear in the nudity scenes,unlike the anime. Yet both are m rated.

Do they consider interactivity to be the deciding factor instead of the themes and visuals?

Nah, don't try to make sense of it.

TMS is a, fortunately, fringe case of Nintendo Treehouse having been insane.

The, now usual, censorship of Sony's is open puritan authoritarianism at Sony HQ in California.

It's got little to do with ratings.
 

Paltheos

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Since we're talking about NISA...


What? That's bullshit yo. I'm assuming here that the Japanese text is the same in both versions anyway and that the original English line was translated correctly. If so... come on.

That being said, I understand why they did it but I'm not personally a fan.
 

JunkerWoland

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I didn't want to junk-up any of the Persona 5 Royal threads with censorship talk, but people may want to be aware ATLUS USA reworked some of the game's content for the Western release. The news was revealed in two stories from Gamespot, with the focus largely being on the gay couple that hit on Ryuji. Whether there are further tweaks that veer more towards censorship isn't specified. Article links and relevant quotes are below.

Article 1: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/persona-5-royal-will-be-worthwhile-even-for-return/1100-6473781/
From speaking with senior project manager Yu Namba, who has played a major part of the series localization dating back to Persona 2: Eternal Punishment (2000), there'll be some changes to existing lines of dialogue in P5R. Specifically, we talked about the gay couple that would harrass Ryuji at certain points of the original game--they were "portrayed [as] more like predatory," as Namba put it. When I asked him about those scenes, Namba stated, "I think the community had a very strong response to that, and you saw that, and that was definitely altered for Royal."

As for how those characters and lines have changed, Namba simply said, "We made it [as if they're] being very strong enthusiasts for something they like doing. But it's not like they're on the hunt for some young boys or anything." It's clear that, like the fan base, those who worked on Persona 5's localization felt some type of way about it, too. Namba told me, "Our team members felt a little bit of awkwardness about when working on it," with regards to those moments in the original release. He also said it was no easy task to get the green light to make changes. He concluded, "We're pretty happy with what it is. It's not a significant change, but I think there's enough of a change that people who weren't comfortable going through that part in Persona 5 would feel better this time around."

Outside of those scenes, Namba also said that the team and voice cast went over a few existing lines from the original game in addition to delivering all the new Royal-specific content. While there have been gripes about the pronunciation of some names in the original game, Namba did say that the general pronunciation guidelines were kept, though they tried to make things more consistent across the game.


Article 2: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/how-persona-5-royal-and-the-series-has-evolved-for/1100-6473783/
There's still content that doesn't go over well for the audience. How much say do you have in whether or not that content makes it in the game? Do you have autonomy in terms of recognizing what won't play well and what to do with it? How do you approach that?

There were certain things in Persona 3, 4 and 5, especially now in 2020, where there would be a lot of talk about the things in those games. As a localization manager, I really cannot do too much about what has already made it into the game.

But in Persona 5, there were a few NPCs that, while we were doing the localization, our team members felt a little bit of awkwardness about when working on it. And with Royal, we were determined to see if we could do something about it at least localization-wise. On our end, it took a lot of effort consulting not just the production department, but talking with our marketing, and how they would feel about it if we changed how things were in Persona 5 to this new way--what would the public reception be, what the company would think, whether it would be okay if we do make the change.

Ultimately for Royal, we did go with it and I think we're pretty happy with what it is. It's not a significant change, but I think there's enough of a change that people who weren't comfortable going through that part in Persona 5 would feel better this time around.

Are you able to say exactly what it is? What part of the game that you were referring to?

So basically, I'm just going to say it right now there are these two gay men who hit on Ryuji. I think the community had a very strong response to that, and you saw that, and that was definitely altered for Royal.

Can you expand on how that was changed?

Unfortunately, those characters were portrayed [as] more like predatory. In Royal--I don't want to say we made it mild--but we made it [as if they're] being very strong enthusiasts for something they like doing. But it's not like they're on the hunt for some young boys or anything.
 
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Zambatoh

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So in other words, they threw the "community" under the bus to justify a change that they themselves wanted to make in the first place?
Sure. Let's just alienate fans.
 
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Paracelsus

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They're not listening, the truth is way darker.
Localization groups have been infested by them, so they outright get to censor and thought police games coming their way. The owners of these companies likely don't even have idea.
Since diversity cannot be portrayed in any way other than gary stu/mary sue, that's what you get. Go read about the Goemon incident.
 

kunonabi

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I took the time to find out how the Wii U version sold first week. According to Media Create, it sold 26.3K units while Famitsu had it selling 23.8K units. At that time, the Wii U had a userbase of just under 3 million.

Compare this to the 18.8K units for Encore with a nearly 12 million Switch userbase (4x the Wii U's userbase at that time!).

Goddamn I was wondering what the number was. Nice to see it flop. How did it fare in the west?
 
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Looks like P5R is a hard pass right now. Anytime you go out of your way to appease people because it hurts/offends some small group of vocal whiners it goes bad and people don't buy your stuff. I'll keep my money, Atlus.
Not to mention, the people that Atlus tried to appease are whining that it is not enough. Never ever appeal to a non-existent audience, especially when that "audience" is rife with identity politics.
 
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JunkerWoland

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Regarding Persona 5 Royal, GameXplain posted the updated scene in Shinjuku, featuring Ryuji and the two gay men (I haven't seen any videos of the related beach sequence). Opinions on the new text and the change's necessity will vary, but it's worth noting this new material is a complete fabrication, whereas the initial localization (with the usual leeway allotted for specific word choice and general comprehension) was a fairly accurate representation of the original Japanese writing.

Considering the known changes (minor, though they may be) made to recent SEGA titles like Judgement, Catherine: Full Body, and the Yakuza 4 remaster, the questions is raised over how much do consumers now have to worry about the SEGA-ATLUS localization team creating text unrelated to the original writing, anytime someone on their staff (or some portion of the Internet hivemind) finds material offensive?

Original Scene:


Updated Scene:


::: edit :::

For those interested, the below video showcases the updated beach scene, which is similarly no longer inline with the original Japanese script.

 
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JunkerWoland

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To be fair (and potentially critical) of NISA, assuming that's a one-to-one comparison from the Japanese, then the trap joke is itself just another example of corny crap NISA artificially inserted into a script, as it's not what's written in the Japanese screenshot. In this regard, NISA is simply making its own unnecessary change less offensive to those now upset by the term trap. Of course, I'm only going by the one screenshot.
 
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