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[MoonsaultSlayer]

Saw this in my Facebook memories lol. Seeing this thread's headline made me rethink of it after being reminded of it earlier.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=oWPiWd_jhfM

 

[Lulubop]

Worst thread ever.

do tell

 

[Aeriscloud]

Worst thread ever.

Well? we're waiting.

 

[Fried Food]

it wouldn't be MK if they made it all flowy and perfect

 

[Oneself]

it wouldn't be MK if they made it all flowy and perfect

I disagree. Better animations would just make MK games look much better. The gameplay is great but it does look bad mostly because of its weak animations (and arguably poor character designs).

 

[enzo_gt]

it wouldn't be MK if they made it all flowy and perfect

I think this is exactly the developer's perspective, and I think it's just as terrible. They'd rather opt for nostalgia than reducing painful awkwardness and antiquated movesets.

Wonder what the demographics of NRS games looks like, and if it's mostly just older adult men who get off on seeing the characters their childhoods do progressively violent shit, or there are actually young kids and adults who are growing up playing it and liking the animations for how awkward they are. The biggest MK fan I know IRL even admits there's somethhing really off about how the characters move.

 

[King Gilga]

Yeah, I enjoy the games but the the recent MK games and injustice's animations always felt super stiff and awkward to me.

Nothing flows in these games.

 

[Inviusx]

I disagree. Better animations would just make MK games look much better. The gameplay is great but it does look bad mostly because of its weak animations (and arguably poor character designs).

The animations in MKX work because thats how MK characters have always moved. They could absolutely make the animations all flashy and nice like SF but then it may not resemble the MK that people know and love. This is entirely intentional on NRS's behalf and I appreciate the fact that it does look a bit janky and weird because thats always been the case. MK has a look and a style that's part of it's legacy and MKX is a great culmination of everything that MK fans love about these games.

 

[Jaeger]

The animations in MKX work because thats how MK characters have always moved.

You really need to stop telling this lie here. Most of the bad animations that people are pointing out (Idle Stance animations) kicks etc, ARE NOT PRESENT IN THE 2D GAMES.

 

[UpUpDownDown]

This video is stupid. It simplifies the argument to much.

There are different styles of animation and if it animated like street fighter it would look even weirder.

That's like saying the Digi doubles in Avengers films should move like the characters from The Incredibles.

That being said, Street fighter nails it's look way better (some of the best animation I've ever seen in a game) than MK does.

 

[Sou Da]

it wouldn't be MK if they made it all flowy and perfect

The animations in MKX work because thats how MK characters have always moved. They could absolutely make the animations all flashy and nice like SF but then it may not resemble the MK that people know and love. This is entirely intentional on NRS's behalf and I appreciate the fact that it does look a bit janky and weird because thats always been the case. MK has a look and a style that's part of it's legacy and MKX is a great culmination of everything that MK fans love about these games.

Explain Injustice then.

 

[MrCarter]

Worst thread ever.

Trump?

 

[VariantX]

I think people need to understand that this isn't about making Mortal Kombat a whipping boy (SFV has that position on lock at the moment). Some games have problems that need to be addressed, and most of us would love to see NRS step their game up. Their animations are very bad, but the product, outside of those animations, is absolutely excellent. As someone mentioned earlier, most of us want to see Street Fighter step their game up as well, just in other areas. Capcom could learn a lot from NRS about how to add value to their games through single player content. And, obviously, NRS could learn a lot of lessons on how to animate their games from Capcom.

By the way, it isn't crazy to think that NRS will do this. They just took the deep dive on fixing their netcode, and their faces have improved IMMENSELY very recently. I wouldn't even be surprised if their animations were top notch when MK11 drops.



You are actually calling for a ban now? This is such an odd thing to throw your account away for...

NRS games really only have two weaknesses, animations and music in comparison to other fighters. They're unquestionably tops in nearly all other categories. Look at female design from MK9 to MKX for example, massive improvement over the old stripper costumes they used to have. I feel they're very receptive to change and to listening to address things brought up by the community and larger audience.

 

[『Inaba Resident』]

This video is stupid. It simplifies the argument to much.

There are different styles of animation and if it animated like street fighter it would look even weirder.

That's like saying the Digi doubles in Avengers films should move like the characters from The Incredibles.

That being said, Street fighter nails it's look way better (some of the best animation I've ever seen in a game) than MK does.

Regardless of whatever style they're going for, NRS games don't adhere to the fundamentals of animation which is bad. That's the argument. Its why he lists several other fighting games in the video. They all adhere to the fundamentals of animation yet they're all different from each other. No reason why NRS games can't be the same.

 

[UpUpDownDown]

Regardless of whatever style they're going for, NRS games don't adhere to the fundamentals of animation which is bad. That's the argument. Its why he lists several other fighting games in the video. They all adhere to the fundamentals of animation yet they're all different from each other. No reason why NRS games can't be the same.

Are you an animator or we're the "fundamentals" of animation just introducted to you in that video?

It's not cut and dry. You don't have giant antics when you're going for a real look. Same with the massive volume changes on characters.

But yes, MK can be better.

I've been familiar with them for a while and I'm currently going to school to be an animator. Not sure how that's relevant.

It's so unbelievably relavent it's not even funny.

 

[『Inaba Resident』]

Are you an animator or we're the fundamentals of animation just introducted to you in that video?

I've been familiar with them for a while and I'm currently going to school to be an animator. Not sure how that's relevant.

Calling something a defense force is even worse. It shuts down any form of discussion because someone couldn't possibly hold a different opinion from the majority.

Yeah, that kind of stuff just reduces it to an "us vs them" mentality which doesn't foster good discussion.

 

[Jaeger]

This video is stupid. It simplifies the argument to much.

There are different styles of animation and if it animated like street fighter it would look even weirder.

That's like saying the Digi doubles in Avengers films should move like the characters from The Incredibles.

That being said, Street fighter nails it's look way better (some of the best animation I've ever seen in a game) than MK does.

Another "it's the animation style!" posts again. We are clearly looking at the defense force who defends whatever it is about NRS regardless of its nature.

 

[Rynocirator]

Another "it's the animation style!" posts again. We are clearly looking at the defense force who defends whatever it is about NRS regardless of its nature.

Calling something a defense force is even worse. It shuts down any form of discussion because someone couldn't possibly hold a different opinion from the majority.

 

[Jaeger]

Calling something a defense force is even worse. It shuts down any form of discussion because someone couldn't possibly hold a different opinion from the majority.

No, it doesn't. But you sure are trying to make it that way.

 

[UpUpDownDown]

Another "it's the animation style!" posts again. We are clearly looking at the defense force who defends whatever it is about NRS regardless of its nature.

Ur broken.

Not everything is terrible or OMG the best ever.

 

[Inviusx]

Explain Injustice then.

I don't really play Injustice but it should have it's own style and not look like DC skinned MK characters. If thats the case then that's just lazy on their behalf but doesn't really have anything to do with MK.

 

[Jaeger]

In response to the "It's on purpose because it's always been this way!" crowd. Show me that terrible Scorpion stance in MKX in the older titles again? Because I can't find it.

Ur broken.

Not everything is terrible or OMG the best ever.

No clue what you are talking about here.

 

[joe2187]

This thread is going down hill fast.

I got a few questions though.

Does MK9, MKX, Injustice, Injustice 2 use an in house engine from from NRS? or is it running on something else?

 

[UpUpDownDown]

In response to the "It's on purpose because it's always been this way!" crowd. Show me that terrible Scorpion stance in MKX in the older titles again? Because I can't find it.

No clue what you are talking about here.

Dude. You're arguing with yourself. Go back and read what I said.

*Rolls eyes*

 

[Inviusx]

In response to the "It's on purpose because it's always been this way!" crowd. Show me that terrible Scorpion stance in MKX in the older titles again? Because I can't find it.

No clue what you are talking about here.

Have you even played MKX beyond watching this video? He still has the same stance the only difference is his raised hand being slightly lower and a little bit more crouched. It's not 1 to 1 exactly the same, just like neither of the examples you have are exactly the same either but it is very reminiscent of his original pre fight stance.

 

[lucebuce12]

This thread is going down hill fast.

I got a few questions though.

Does MK9, MKX, Injustice, Injustice 2 use an in house engine from from NRS? or is it running on something else?

Continuingly modified version of Unreal Engine 3.

At this point they've shaped the engine to keep up with and match their needs.

 

[Canucked]

All games can do better but I agree that some idle animations look off in MKX and it can seem a little stiff.

 

[Jaeger]

Have you even played MKX beyond watching this video? He still has the same stance....

...only difference is his raised hand being slightly lower and a little bit more crouched. It's not 1 to 1 exactly the same, just like neither of the examples you have are exactly the same either but it is very reminiscent of his original pre fight stance.

So it's only differences are... it's differences? Which makes it different, and not the same? That's the point, sir.

 

[joe2187]

Continuingly modified version of Unreal Engine 3.

At this point they've shaped the engine to keep up with and match their needs.

So then it's NRS at fault and nothing to do with the engine. got it.

 

[Duxxy3]

It is painful to watch MK/Injustice tournaments for this very reason. These games make Western animators look bad. Look lazy.

 

[nailbombxx]

Have you even played MKX beyond watching this video? He still has the same stance the only difference is his raised hand being slightly lower and a little bit more crouched. It's not 1 to 1 exactly the same, just like neither of the examples you have are exactly the same either but it is very reminiscent of his original pre fight stance.

The point is, animations can be done properly while being reminiscent of the old skool style. This is true for like every fighting game series except those made by NetherRealms for some reason. Still having poor animation in 2017 just because the past games had weird awkward animation is no excuse.

Compare the first Tekken game to the upcoming Tekken 7 - it has changed far less than Mortal Kombat has (MK has changed 2D to 3D to 2.5D, etc). The characters who were in the first Tekken game still have much the same movesets in Tekken 7 - but the quality of animation has been naturally polished and improved, and many new moves and mechanics added of course. The animations do not look stiff or outdated. Tekken 7 plays more like 20 year old Tekken games than Mortal Kombat 10 did compared to any other Mortal Kombat game, but it doesn't look or play stiff and outdated.

Ontop of that, much of the character's movesets in MK 10 was entirely new - it didn't play completely like old school MK or like the 3D games, you have much more reason to expect higher quality animations when they were less tied to old combat systems for the reboot. Injustice suffers from the same poor animation so its not like they're just trying to stay true to their roots when they don't understand how to properly animate characters to be lifelike like every other fighting game.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

it wouldn't be MK if they made it all flowy and perfect

You know, I find this (and similar i.e. "it's the staple of the series" ones) argument silly. Considering we're talking about a series that went from 2D to 3D to 2.5D; that at one point replaced digitized actors (one of the recognizable features of the series) with 3D models; that at one point introduced (and then get rid off of) weapons and different stances that one could change in real time; that could get rid off or kill half of its recognizable cast in a main game, or completely change looks and/or moveset of recognizable fighters; that completely changed button layouts (high/low punch/kick to front/back punch/kick); etc. But stiff animations? It appears that that is the most import feature that defines the series. You can change everything, but stiff animation has to stay!

Seriously, why do people defend the animation so much? There are some things that would need to stay, like infinite punches that jett mentioned, because that does affect the gameplay. But stuff like Kitana's shitty low-kick or Torr lifting enemies without using his back is nothing more than a bad looking animation and fixing those would only improve the game.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

People keep bringing up the cinematic animations to defend the gameplay animations as a style, without realizing they're only hurting their own point. If it was just a preference, surely the cinematics would animate in the same way we perceive as poor, no? If things like that low kick is just their cartoony personality, surely they'd keep it for the supers, right? But they don't.

Definitely a good point. If the intention is to make them look awkward and cheesy or goofy, why doesn't this carry over to the one area where they aren't constrained by gameplay mechanics at all?

You know, I find this (and similar i.e. "it's the staple of the series" ones) argument silly. Considering we're talking about a series that went from 2D to 3D to 2.5D; that at one point replaced digitized actors (one of the recognizable features of the series) with 3D models; that at one point introduced (and then get rid off of) weapons and different stances that one could change in real time; that could get rid off or kill half of its recognizable cast in a main game, or completely change looks and/or moveset of recognizable fighters; that completely changed button layouts (high/low punch/kick to front/back punch/kick); etc. But stiff animations? It appears that that is the most import feature that defines the series. You can change everything, but stiff animation has to stay!

Seriously, why do people defend the animation so much? There are some things that would need to stay, like infinite punches that jett mentioned, because that does affect the gameplay. But stuff like Kitana's shitty low-kick or Torr lifting enemies without using his back is nothing more than a bad looking animation and fixing those would only improve the game.

Also a good point. I have a hard time thinking of another modern fighter with a long legacy that's changed and swerved in so many directions mechanically as much as Mortal Kombat has.

 

[CryptiK]

Worst thread ever.

But the video is spot on its super basic animation knowledge, I have no idea how someone at NR hasn't figured it out yet. Also on the argument that the animation style is a staple to the series dont forget so were the shitty character models. They fixed that kind of.

Continuingly modified version of Unreal Engine 3.

At this point they've shaped the engine to keep up with and match their needs.

Its a shame since its really showing its age now.

 

[Trojan X]

Worst thread ever.

Oh man, I am most certainly ALL EARS for your explanation. Do tell.

 

[kirbster]

You know, I find this (and similar i.e. "it's the staple of the series" ones) argument silly. Considering we're talking about a series that went from 2D to 3D to 2.5D; that at one point replaced digitized actors (one of the recognizable features of the series) with 3D models; that at one point introduced (and then get rid off of) weapons and different stances that one could change in real time; that could get rid off or kill half of its recognizable cast in a main game, or completely change looks and/or moveset of recognizable fighters; that completely changed button layouts (high/low punch/kick to front/back punch/kick); etc. But stiff animations? It appears that that is the most import feature that defines the series. You can change everything, but stiff animation has to stay!

Seriously, why do people defend the animation so much? There are some things that would need to stay, like infinite punches that jett mentioned, because that does affect the gameplay. But stuff like Kitana's shitty low-kick or Torr lifting enemies without using his back is nothing more than a bad looking animation and fixing those would only improve the game.

By far the best post in this thread.

It's such a shame that the animation is garbage because everything else looks amazing. The character models, the backgrounds, the lighting... all awesome, but the character movements are so bad that it makes the final product look awful. I don't understand how NRS leaves it this way : it's definitely not a budget problem, and I refuse to believe the theory that they would make it that way on purpose.

 

[Manbig]

The animation on a lot of the attacks being dog shit is for our amusement clearly.

Case in point.

 

[MrCarter]

The animation on a lot of the attacks being dog shit is for our amusement clearly.

Case in point.

lol Aris.

Batman clearly needs those constant lenses.

 

[nachum00]

The animation on a lot of the attacks being dog shit is for our amusement clearly.

Case in point.

Lol that's amazing. I hope they never change

 

[jasminlovesyoux]

Besides the original and MK2, I have never enjoyed the MK franchise because it feels so stiff to play. Injustice is, of course, the same. Animations aren't the only culprit here though. It could be animated differently and still play the same. Mortal Kombat has always been designed this way and I don't like it's flow of combat compared to other fighting games. Unless NR does a complete over haul of the fighting engine I'll never want to play these games. Of course, the long time fans wouldn't want that, so it's cool that they have MK and I can have my other fighters.

 

[wildfire]

Besides the original and MK2, I have never enjoyed the MK franchise because it feels so stiff to play. Injustice is, of course, the same. Animations aren't the only culprit here though. It could be animated differently and still play the same. Mortal Kombat has always been designed this way and I don't like it's flow of combat compared to other fighting games. Unless NR does a complete over haul of the fighting engine I'll never want to play these games. Of course, the long time fans wouldn't want that, so it's cool that they have MK and I can have my other fighters.

At this point your talking about the input system and the frame buffers. Not every game needs to feel the same as Street Fighter.

 

[Pompadour]

The animations in MKX work because thats how MK characters have always moved. They could absolutely make the animations all flashy and nice like SF but then it may not resemble the MK that people know and love. This is entirely intentional on NRS's behalf and I appreciate the fact that it does look a bit janky and weird because thats always been the case. MK has a look and a style that's part of it's legacy and MKX is a great culmination of everything that MK fans love about these games.

But they've improved in so many other areas. If they really wanted to maintain MK's legacy they'd cut the movelist down to a third and everyone would have a mash HP combo.

The animation on a lot of the attacks being dog shit is for our amusement clearly.

Case in point.

Jesus.

 

[Trojan X]

Been watching lots of Injustice 2 videos. My gosh, the fight animation is absolutely atrocious! Production is incredible but the core game... Oh man.

 

[Skilletor]

At this point your talking about the input system and the frame buffers. Not every game needs to feel the same as Street Fighter.

Weird that so many people jump straight to SF, as if that's the only other fighter.

 

[RootCause]

Been watching lots of Injustice 2 videos. My gosh, the fight animation is absolutely atrocious! Production is incredible but the core game... Oh man.

Core game? Seems to be doing pretty great actually.

 

[Mesoian]

I mean, I just hate the, "I won, but the opponent stands straight up, only to crumple over" stuff. I know it's a staple of netherrealm games, as is the awkward animation tweening, but it just seems silly a game that has nothing to do once the match ends, but still has those old hang overs from mortal kombat.

The game itself looks great, but the animation is weird. Though I'd expect that to be addressed in MK11.

 

[PhantomThief]

Been watching lots of Injustice 2 videos. My gosh, the fight animation is absolutely atrocious! Production is incredible but the core game... Oh man.

Not to mention the amount of microtransactions. Gross af

 

[Trojan X]

Core game? Seems to be doing pretty great actually.

The core game is the actual fighting. The rest is fluff. My point is the fighting animation.

 

[LordOfLore]

Just as bad animation can severely cripple a video game’s ability to tell a compelling story, good animation draws the viewer into the narrative, adding emotion and nuance. Injustice 2 has very, very good animation.

.

 

[Skilletor]

.

ctrl+f gameplay.