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[SD-Ness]

I'm arguing with my uncle right now over - you guessed it - video games. He said:

And I need not be an expert at whatever the latest video game system is to know that it -- along with several other major factors -- is a major contributor to this being the most OBESE nation on the earth. Here's an idea...get a ball, meet some other kids and RUN AROUND FOR A WHILE!!!

I replied that one could do both - go outside and play video games. I then cited the fact (at least I think it's fact) that Japanese people are generally thin despite being a country in which video games are equally popular as in the United States.

He replied:

I don’t know – why are they so thin? I’d be really interested in whatever ethnic generalities you come up with.

Jut so you know, what you said is passively anti-Asian…

Is he right? I, without researching, inferred that there was some connection to the Japanese diet that contributed to their thinness, despite playing video games. I was going to say that the country is less dominated by America's shit foot, but I'm not sure how true that is considering the "Americanization" Japan has gone through in the past sixty or so years.

So what do you think?

 

[thetrin]

Japanese health is tied to diet, as well as things like increased use of bicycles and walking, and a need to get out of the house (as most abodes are tiny).

You try eating salmon and vinegared rice all day instead of crap like cheese burgers and see what your weight is like.

 

[malek4980]

Anti-Asian?
Claiming an ethnic group isn’t morbidly obese is now an ethnic slur?

NoW Jared Diamond's old paper on testicle size is anti-asian.

 

[Walter Matthau]

The Japanese diet is generally better than the American. They have food rich in Omega vitamins and low on sugar.

That being said, I see no link between video game players and obesity. I think most hardcore players tend to be very skinny if anything.

 

[Servizio]

I was under the impression that the Japanese, particularly Japanese students, exercise a lot more. All the sports clubs and whatnot.

 

[Dyne]

Video games and obesity are about as linked as video games and violence. It's there, but everyone is a different case. Generalizing something to get your mind at rest is a waste of your time.

 

[Walter Matthau]

I was under the impression that the Japanese, particularly Japanese students, exercise a lot more. All the sports clubs and whatnot.

As far as I know it's not much more than in America. However, the emphasis over there is on sports that you don't need to bulk up for.

 

[Draft]

Haha, your uncle sounds like a dick.

Uncle: American kids play a lot of videogames, and are fat as fuck. Therefore, videogames make kids fat.

You: But the japanese play a lot of games too, and they're generally very fit.

Uncle: ...RACIST!

 

[DaCocoBrova]

As always, it's the parent's responsibility. My son would play his GC all damn day if I let him.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Reading a book, watching a movie, playing games. All sedentary activities. Cheap fast food at almost every street corner combined with an obscene amount of fat and sugar in almost everything Americans consume has more to do with obesity. Diabetes and Obesity occurences are increasing in this country at an epidemic rate. Games don't help but they are not the main reason.

 

[Mr_Furious]

Your uncle sounds quite opinionated on topics he knows little about and when you call him out on it he pulls out the racists card? Nice.

 

[kumanoki]

Having lived in both cultures, I can say that there are far too many variables to take into consideration when deciding if videogames are a primary cause of obesity in the US.

Having said that, if we removed the constant (videogames) from the equation, would there still be a glaring difference in the way Americans and Japanese people live their lives? Yes.

Japanese people eat differently, with a focus on home-cooked meals consisting of miso, rice, fish, and various vegetables. Meat portions are considerably smaller than rice or veggies. Also, there is better public transportation in Japan. Many people walk or ride bikes, to and from bus and train stations. There is also a higher priority put on physical fitness in Japan than in the United States. Because of the group mentality, often sporting activities are seen as the best way to teach children to work together in a group.

Americans are free from the social constraints of a group system, as we focus on the individual as being above the group. So it ultimately rests with the individual's choice to stay inside and post on GAF all day while the sun is shining outside. It really doesn't matter what we're doing. It's that what we're doing is not nearly as active an activity as it needs to be for us to stay fit.

 

[Kai Dracon]

As always, it's the parent's responsibility. My son would play his GC all damn day if I let him.

An expanded thought on "it's the parent's responsibility".

Generally, kids will do what's most interesting to them. I think this is a factor not really comprehended by a lot of the adult generation that doesn't grasp videogames and the computer-literate world.

Society in the west is falling apart in many ways (though not all the ways the social conservative alarmists would like to believe, such as you know, gay people existing). Adults have a Norman Rockwell image of kids playing tag in the park and throwing a baseball around Just Like Ma' Pop Used Ta' Do. That world is largely dead and buried for much of the country though. Parents are terrified of allowing their kids to play as they imagine kids used to play in the good old days. School programs are increasingly crap, if not useless in many areas. Worthwhile parks are in disrepair or vanishing. The very structure of suburban America "traps" people in rows of home parks which require a car to go anywhere of interest.

So along come videogames and the Internet, which present a colorful, interesting, -stimulating- world for kids (and adults) to immerse themselves in.

I also have a suspicion that in a lot of cases, the same adults to will complain and go on witch hunts for the latest fad-threat to society, also practice more latchkey parenting than they realize or would admit.

Parents have got to engage their kids; not just monitor them like gestapo and take things away. I feel we've pretty much ended up with a culture based on paranoia; where people are largely focused on walling themselves (and their children) away from a litany of "dangers" but don't really consider what to do after that.

Of course, parents could just do their best to get the kids hooked on DDR ;p

 

[Mr_Furious]

Having lived in both cultures, I can say that there are far too many variables to take into consideration when deciding if videogames are a primary cause of obesity in the US.

I think it's safe to say video games are not a primary cause of obesity in the U.S. or anywhere. There are plenty other activities that promote sitting idle for extended periods of time in various cultures. Video games should not be singled out. It doesn't take a genius to see that the "primary" cause of obesity is directly related to diet and eating habits.

 

[Eric_S]

Ooohh, it's late here, but what the heck...

First of all, DDR makes you fat?

Generalizing is a bad trait, aspecially for people who try to use it as an argument against their opponent.

And how is your comment inherrently anti asian? He tries to make build a posetivistik argument around a supposed link between obesity and videogames, you supply him with a counter example where the link is not clear. For your example to reflect on any supposed "asian traits" you have to assume somewhere that he's right, wich is a logical fallacy when used (if not backed up) as an argument. E.g. you can't make an counterargument where the point is "I'm right because I'm right, and because of that you're X wich follows from me being right", You have to be able to backup that you are right, or at the very least be clear that the argument is only true if he manages to provide proof that there is a link such that the argument in question becomes true. Then, if he manages to cough up evidence, of course he falls into the problem that he needs you to essentially know that the counter point you made is either false, or is not made in ignorace of other cultural differences between Japan and the US, wich is a tad bit of a pain in the bum.

 

[fronn]

It seems like you're uncle is ignorant and is, much like many other people in the world, connecting the dots wrong (often connecting two dots that aren't even on the same page, if you know what I mean).

I have a feeling whatever argument you bring to the table, no matter how well thought out, he'd come up with some wonky excuse as to why it's still video games fault. His response to your japan comment seems to point to that, at least.

 

[kumanoki]

An appropriate song by Ben Folds:

Your unlce walter’s going on and on
’bout everything he’s seen and done
The voice of fifty years experience
He’s drunk watching the television
You know he’s been around the world
Last night he flew to baghdad
In his magical armchair
With cigarettes and six pack
Yeah, he just got back
The spit’s flying everywhere
Hey hey hey hey

Chorus
Your uncle walter’s going on and on
(oh you’re back so late)
Where did oyu go that you were gone so long?
And how could you leave me here
So long with uncle walter?

Your uncle walter saw
Who fired the shots
He drove his chair in the cavalcade
He’s flown from south africa to
Countries where they beat themselves
On the backs with chains
There was a fleet of battleships
And one reclining chair
Headed north on the arabian sea
Now he’s back to tell us how
He and his oldest boy blair
They’re getting rich on
A mail order scheme oh oh

Chorus
Your uncle walter’s going on and on
(we’re so glad you’re home)
Where did you go that you were gone so long?
And how could you leave me here
So long with uncle walter?

Your uncle walter told me
Everything he’d do if he were president
Now what a perfect world
This world would be
If he were president now
But he’s not!

And he sees the children smoking pot
He knows that in a moment they’ll be
Shooting up heroin
Teardrops in his armchair
A fifty minute lecture
Tobacco juice rolling down his chin

Chorus

 

[Srider]

I think most hardcore gamers pass up on eating in favor of playing more games. Therefore they are skinny.

Same applies for the financial implications as well.


I'd have to add though, that your generalization about games being popular in Japan can also be interpreted as off bases by many Japanese people.

 

[SD-Ness]

Ooohh, it's late here, but what the heck...

First of all, DDR makes you fat?

Generalizing is a bad trait, aspecially for people who try to use it as an argument against their opponent.

And how is your comment inherrently anti asian? He tries to make build a posetivistik argument around a supposed link between obesity and videogames, you supply him with a counter example where the link is not clear. For your example to reflect on any supposed "asian traits" you have to assume somewhere that he's right, wich is a logical fallacy when used (if not backed up) as an argument. E.g. you can't make an counterargument where the point is "I'm right because I'm right, and because of that you're X wich follows from me being right", You have to be able to backup that you are right, or at the very least be clear that the argument is only true if he manages to provide proof that there is a link such that the argument in question becomes true. Then, if he manages to cough up evidence, of course he falls into the problem that he needs you to essentially know that the counter point you made is either false, or is not made in ignorace of other cultural differences between Japan and the US, wich is a tad bit of a pain in the bum.

http://www.freakonomics.com/pdf/whatmakesfoodfattening.pdf

I replied:

My favorite hobby? Is that not an assertion without evidence? The amount of time I spend playing with Dan, Chris, and Sean during the holidays is not indicative of the time I spend playing alone.

Reading a book, watching a movie, playing a game - these are all "sedentary activities." None of them is good when done in immoderation. It's the parents' responsibility to make sure their child participates in a balanced group of acitivities. Furthermore, reading a book can have the same ramifications if done in a similiar manner. It's a balance. One can read, play a game, and run. Games are not the problem.

Concerning Japanese thinness, here is a study titled "What Makes Food Fattening? A Pavlovian Theory of Weight Control" by Seth Roberts from the University of California, Berkeley. On Page 35 he writes:

"Japanese Thinness" -- Figure 6 shows that in 1966 the Japanese were much thinner than persons of other countries with similar incomes.

Explanation. Japanese food has weaker flavors than other cuisines. As one cookbook says, "Most Japanese cuisine is seasoned only lightly; strong spices are never used" (Suzuki, 1994, p. 8). Weaker flavors lead to weaker flavor-calorie associations, as discussed earlier (Figure 2). In addition, at the time of the data shown in Figure 7, Japanese cuisine was also low in high-GI foods, such as bread and potatoes. According to Barer-Stein (1980, p. 335), "the staples of the traditional Japanese diet are rice, fish and seafood, vegetables and tea." This too should have reduced the strength of flavor-calorie associations, as discussed earlier. When Japanese emigrate to the United States and adopt an American diet, they eventually weigh as much as other Americans (Curb & Marcus, 1991), which supports this explanation.

Other explanations. A study comparing Japanese and American telephone executives found a weight difference close to the American-Japanese difference shown in Figure 7 (Sakai, Comstock, Stone & Suzuki, 1977). They also found that the Americans exercised more than the Japanese, implying that a difference in exercise is unlikely to explain Japanese thinness. The Japanese executives smoked more (64% were present smokers) than the Americans (42% were present smokers). Smoking certainly causes weight loss but its effect is too small to explain the 20-kg difference between the two groups. A study of monozygotic twins found that heavy smokers were 4 kg lighter than nonsmokers (Eisen, Lyons, Goldberg, & True, 1993). Thus smoking explains no more than 0.8 kg (4 kg times the 22% difference in smoking) of the 20-kg.

Figures 6 and 7 have been attached. The study can be found at: http://www.freakonomics.com/pdf/whatmakesfoodfattening.pdf.

 

[Zaphod]

You try eating salmon and vinegared rice all day instead of crap like cheese burgers and see what your weight is like.

You'll also be able to crap out enough mercury to make your own thermometer.

 

[PolyGone]

Sumo wrestlers.

So you should've said, hey, there's games out there that give you a physical workout, such as dance dance revolution, guitar hero, and doa xtreme beach volleyball. Though, that last one really only excercises your wrist...

 

[Suburban Cowboy]

anyone who cries racist at a single non-offensive or factual generalizationg is a fucking moron imo. Im really sick of that kind of shit

 

[DaCocoBrova]

 

[Shompola]

I think your uncle is right about kids health today being worse than 10, 20 and 30 years ago. A lot more kids today are obese and diabetic for example. i dont know how much videogames contribute to that. But I think personal computers and internet contribute much more to kids being somwhat more anti social today than before. Thoughts from an armchair Analyst....

 

[dark10x]

In addition to whatever factors exist, I can tell you that it is easy to lose weight in Japan without even trying. I ate what I wanted, played plenty of games in my free time, and didn't really go out of my way to exercise. However, due to the lack of a car, I walked everywhere (in addition to train rides). When I first arrived, I knew I could stand to lose a few pounds...but I ended up losing somewhere between 25-30 pounds. I guess the amount of walking combined with the generally smaller portions served and potentially healthier food worked out in the end.

The American lifestyle is, unfortunately, rather unhealthy in many areas it seems to me.

 

[Srider]

In addition to whatever factors exist, I can tell you that it is easy to lose weight in Japan without even trying. I ate what I wanted, played plenty of games in my free time, and didn't really go out of my way to exercise. However, due to the lack of a car, I walked everywhere (in addition to train rides). When I first arrived, I knew I could stand to lose a few pounds...but I ended up losing somewhere between 25-30 pounds. I guess the amount of walking combined with the generally smaller portions served and potentially healthier food worked out in the end.

The American lifestyle is, unfortunately, rather unhealthy in many areas it seems to me.

Food sucks in the US.

 

[kumanoki]

In addition to whatever factors exist, I can tell you that it is easy to lose weight in Japan without even trying. I ate what I wanted, played plenty of games in my free time, and didn't really go out of my way to exercise. However, due to the lack of a car, I walked everywhere (in addition to train rides). When I first arrived, I knew I could stand to lose a few pounds...but I ended up losing somewhere between 25-30 pounds. I guess the amount of walking combined with the generally smaller portions served and potentially healthier food worked out in the end.

The American lifestyle is, unfortunately, rather unhealthy in many areas it seems to me.

I completely concur. I was down to a svelt 230 (which is a decent weight for my height and frame) and since I've come back, my weight has jumped to 270. No activity, heavier foods, bigger portions, no willpower, no motivation.

 

[metropolis]

it's definately the american diet contributing to the rise in obesity and not videogames. i think your uncle is very wrong.

and then calling you racist for complimenting a culture after he called his own culture a bunch of fat pigs?