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Vox: Bernie Sanders's tax hikes are bigger than Donald Trump's tax cuts

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noshten

Member
True to his brand of democratic socialism, he wants to boost the top income tax rate to 52 percent, add a new 2.2 percent income tax and 6.2 percent payroll tax for everyone, make the rich pay Social Security taxes, make corporations pay taxes on foreign profits as they're earned, tax carbon, tax financial transactions, and raise the top estate tax rate to 65 percent for billionaires, to name a few of his proposals.

Whether you love or hate those ideas, they add up. A new report from the Tax Policy Center, the leading nonpartisan think tank for tax and revenue issues, finds that Sanders's proposals would increase taxes by $15.3 trillion over 10 years, or about $1.5 trillion per year. That's a substantially bigger tax increase than Donald Trump's plan is a tax cut.

The biggest revenue raisers, the TPC report finds, are the new 6.2 percent employer payroll tax ($4.3 trillion over 10 years), repealing the tax exclusion for employer-provided health insurance ($4 trillion), the new 2.2 percent income tax surcharge ($1.8 trillion), increasing top rates (about $1.7 trillion), and the plan to apply Social Security taxes on income over $250,000 ($1.2 trillion).

The tax increases Sanders proposes are progressive. Over two-thirds of them would be paid by the richest 20 percent of Americans, and over a fifth would be paid by the richest 0.1 percent, who'd face an average tax hike of $3.1 million (or about 45 percent of their income). The poorest fifth of Americans, by contrast, would only see taxes go up by $165 on average, or 1.3 percent of their income.

By 2025, the poorest Americans would actually save money. That's because Sanders's carbon tax is paid back to households making under $100,000 in the form of a rebate; the tax increases by 5 percent plus inflation every year, so eventually that rebate becomes big enough to cancel out all the tax increases.

The middle fifth of Americans — those making between $45,153 and $80,760 a year — would see taxes go up by $4,692 a year, or 8.5 percent, in 2017. This chart by Vox's Javier Zarracina summarizes the hikes, compared to Hillary Clinton's plan which TPC analyzed yesterday.

Sanders's income tax increases are bigger than we thought

Bernie Sanders has to date touted his income tax plan as setting a top rate of 52 percent. But per the details the campaign supplied to TPC, it actually works a bit differently from that. Sanders actually eliminates the top three income tax brackets (33, 35, and 39.6 percent), leaving 28 percent as the top rate. He then adds surtaxes of 9, 15, 20, and 24 percent on top of the regular income tax.

This might seem like a technical distinction. It's not. That's because the surtaxes apply not to taxable income, but to adjustable gross income (AGI). If Sanders had merely increased the top rates, taxpayers would have still been able to enjoy their mortgage interest deductions, their charitable deductions, their state and local tax deductions, and so forth. But AGI measures income before you take deductions into account.

So Sanders's plan reduces the benefit rich people can gain from itemized deductions, including the charitable deduction. Effectively, he puts a 30.2 percent cap on their value: the 28 percent top rate, plus his 2.2 percent health care income tax. Interestingly, this is actually a somewhat more modest restriction than Obama or Clinton has proposed. They want a 28 percent cap on deductions by the rich, ever-so-slightly smaller than Sanders's 30.2 percent cap.

Sanders would also subject charitable gifts to capital gains tax. So if I were to, say, buy a painting for $200 dollars and then donate it to a charity when it's worth $200 million, under Sanders's plan I would be on the hook for tax on most of that gain. Under current law, that donation would be tax-free.

This helps explain why Sanders's proposal is so effective at raising revenue from the richest Americans. He's not just raising their tax rates; he's eliminating the best methods they currently have for minimizing their taxable income.

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/4/11161616/bernie-sanders-tax-policy-center

Those increases don't seem that high considering the savings.

i mean it would suck for me.

Being out of college with my loans already paid off and im pretty healthy and dont need to go to the doctor as much. I already 1196/yr in Insurance a year through my work and they wont pass on the savings of not having to provide HC if we get it through the state.

I would just be paying more for everyone else to reap :/

im only 29.

You won't be paying that insurance.

jwpsFEA.jpg

*Charts includes pay roll tax increases which would be paid by employees but doesn't figure in the fact that employer-provided health care will be eliminated. Sander's plan would provide universal health insurance for all.

Vox really fucked up. The report they're citing even say

In the hypothetical examples shown in table B1, total payroll taxes (including the portion paid by employers) would increase by between $3,900 and nearly $5,000 for middle-income workers. Despite the increase in payroll taxes, the workers covered by employer-sponsored health insurance plans would save enough in the switch from employer-sponsored health insurance coverage to the new government plan to more than offset the additional payroll taxes, and thus their take–home pay would increase. The worker without health insurance would have lower take-home pay but in return would gain health insurance coverage and coverage for paid family and medical leave (FML).
Theoretically, the employer would pass the savings onto you.

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("theoretically")

What I'm wondering is if the medical taxes would still decrease your overall tax liability.
 

HUELEN10

Member
It's shocks me that people are surprised with this. I voted for Bernie keeping this in mind, but people should know about it by now.
 

Goodstyle

Member
This seems a bit... extreme.

Is there something I'm not seeing here? Because the tax plan seems to be hitting lower income people pretty hard too.
 

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
That wouldn't play very well in a general. It would be very easy to condense an attack ad down to "Sanders will raise your taxes by 34%"
 
i mean it would suck for me.

Being out of college with my loans already paid off and im pretty healthy and dont need to go to the doctor as much. I already 1196/yr in Insurance a year through my work and they wont pass on the savings of not having to provide HC if we get it through the state.

I would just be paying more for everyone else to reap :/

im only 29.
 

shoplifter

Member
Sanders would also subject charitable gifts to capital gains tax. So if I were to, say, buy a painting for $200 dollars and then donate it to a charity when it's worth $200 million, under Sanders's plan I would be on the hook for tax on most of that gain. Under current law, that donation would be tax-free.

Genius.
 
An extra 9 grand a year gone from people making 100k a year?

I don't think I like that. 100k a year isn't a ton of money in a household of 4.
 

Flo_Evans

Member
This seems a bit... extreme.

Is there something I'm not seeing here? Because the tax plan seems to be hitting lower income people pretty hard too.

You are no longer going to have a monthly insurance bill. Pretty sure the 6.2% payroll tax is paid by employers to fund insurance.
 

Josh7289

Member
Sanders's tax increases come with healthcare built-in, right? So you wouldn't be paying separate health insurance anymore. For many people that alone could make up the difference.
 

noshten

Member
Sanders's tax increases come with healthcare built-in, right? So you wouldn't be paying separate health insurance anymore. For many people that alone could make up the difference.

That's the point, but people miss it - right now you are paying far more especially if you are making under 50K or you are under-ensured which is even worse.
 

hawk2025

Member
I am completely ok with that at a personal level, despite the huge impact.

Significant tax hikes for my income bracket are not why I don't think he's our best choice --

I do question the impact of tax hikes on the lower percentiles of the distribution.
 

besada

Banned
This seems a bit... extreme.

Is there something I'm not seeing here? Because the tax plan seems to be hitting lower income people pretty hard too.

Your missing that these tax plans are designed to fund things like universal health care. So, paying $165 more in taxes at the lowest brackets is a pretty good deal, because you're completely covered for healthcare. I'm pretty sure it's impossible to find healthcare in America for $165 a year otherwise.
i mean it would suck for me.

Being out of college with my loans already paid off and im pretty healthy and dont need to go to the doctor as much. I already 1196/yr in Insurance a year through my work and they wont pass on the savings of not having to provide HC if we get it through the state.

I would just be paying more for everyone else to reap :/

im only 29.
You'd be saving a fair amount, because you'd no longer be paying premiums for insurance. Again, the taxes are set at this level to pay for universal health care. So you'd only ever see them if UHC were implemented, which not only saves you money, but it frees up the money your company is paying for insurance, which is often as high as thirty percent of revenue for companies.
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Sanders's tax increases come with healthcare built-in, right? So you wouldn't be paying separate health insurance anymore. For many people that alone could make up the difference.

Doesn't it also include free college tuition as well, along with some of his other proposals?

No one likes to have their taxes increase, but shit isn't ever actually free. If you want stuff like universal healthcare, universal access to higher education and the like you have to pay for it. These tax increases at least come with appreciable and meaningful benefits for the majority of Americans.
 

Boke1879

Member
Real talk. That shit just isn't going to fly. No matter how much you explain it an easy attack will be "he's going to tax the hell out of you"

That shit wouldn't play well with a lot of democrats
 

Kas

Member
I'm okay with this.

I have medical issues that I haven't been able to afford to get taken care of. Having to pay a bit more, but being able to be healthier is a net gain.
 

massoluk

Banned
Not sure why he pushed for the lower brackets increases, especially with his stance. Bang for the buck, it's better to keep it low in those brackets. It's not gonna contribute much overall anyway, leave people some money for rent.
 

MartyStu

Member
Doesn't it also include free college tuition as well, along with some of his other proposals?

No one likes to have their taxes increase, but shit isn't ever actually free. If you want stuff like universal healthcare, universal access to higher education and the like you have to pay for it. These tax increases at least come with appreciable and meaningful benefits for the majority of Americans.

Not that anyone will care, but this is super important.

Most of the time when politicians increase taxes or give tax break, the average person does not see much of a difference.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
Sanders's tax increases come with healthcare built-in, right? So you wouldn't be paying separate health insurance anymore. For many people that alone could make up the difference.

Correct. Am I wrong, or would this include his college plans as well?
 

gdt

Member
Free healthcare/school. Free healthcare/school. Needs
to be screamed anytime this info is spread.





This tax plan isn't gonna happen anyway.
 
Socialism isn't cheap (not being facetious I promise)

Paying more upfront in taxes gets you free-ish health care, free tuition, a more robust social safety net. For a lot of people (especially those are under insured now) they would be paying less overall under this scheme.
 
Someone making 35k a year would have a tax increase of 2500, but would get free health care (no deductables, no premiums, etc) That's a bargain for what you get.

It makes a hell of a lot more sense than giving huge tax breaks to the rich.
 

Goodstyle

Member
Your missing that these tax plans are designed to fund things like universal health care. So, paying $165 more in taxes at the lowest brackets is a pretty good deal, because you're completely covered for healthcare. I'm pretty sure it's impossible to find healthcare in America for $165 a year otherwise.

Ah that makes sense. I knew there was something I'm missing, that actually sounds pretty good. It just looks terrible on paper.
 
Your missing that these tax plans are designed to fund things like universal health care. So, paying $165 more in taxes at the lowest brackets is a pretty good deal, because you're completely covered for healthcare. I'm pretty sure it's impossible to find healthcare in America for $165 a year otherwise.

I'm in the second bracket, and if I'm reading this right I would be paying $1625 more in taxes? The whole reason I skipped signing up for healthcare is because I couldn't afford the extra burden it put on me financially, and the penalty was less. So the benefit of universal healthcare under this plan is personally not gaining my support for a $1625 loss. I'd be more than happy to pay it if it were sub-$1000.
 
So the ones being hit the hardest (middle class/lower middle class) will likely not see much of that benefit (Free College)

That is going to do well.
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Not that anyone will care, but this is super important.

Most of the time when politicians increase taxes or give tax break, the average person does not see much of a difference.

Which really sucks because everyone is so used to getting fucked over they'll never be open minded to someone who actually isn't trying to just rip them off. We can't even have the debate or simply the discussion about providing people with basic services and benefits because the fact that we actually have to pay for it, ie increase taxes, is an automatic deal breaker because of all the bad politicians that have been taking something for nothing for years now.
 
Socialism isn't cheap (not being facetious I promise)

Paying more upfront in taxes gets you free-ish health care, free tuition, a more robust social safety net. For a lot of people (especially those are under insured now) they would be paying less overall under this scheme.

40% of American's will be hugely impacted by these taxes in a negative way. Current cost of healthcare premiums are cheaper than these taxes.
 

Hydrus

Member
Your missing that these tax plans are designed to fund things like universal health care. So, paying $165 more in taxes at the lowest brackets is a pretty good deal, because you're completely covered for healthcare. I'm pretty sure it's impossible to find healthcare in America for $165 a year otherwise.

You'd be saving a fair amount, because you'd no longer be paying premiums for insurance. Again, the taxes are set at this level to pay for universal health care. So you'd only ever see them if UHC were implemented, which not only saves you money, but it frees up the money your company is paying for insurance, which is often as high as thirty percent of revenue for companies.

What about people like myself who get health insurance thru work? I don't pay for it, my job does and they definitely won't be giving me that money back if the government is giving insurance. These taxes would screw me over big time.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
The middle fifth of Americans — those making between $45,153 and $80,760 a year — would see taxes go up by $4,692 a year, or 8.5 percent, in 2017.

Ummm fuck you Bernie. I like how the article says middle fifth of Americans. WTF does that mean? 20% of americans?
 
Would happily pay more in taxes to make my life and the lives of people around me better. Unfortunate that many others don't feel the same.
 

Tesseract

Banned
You should want to pay more taxes so your fellow man gets guaranteed healthcare and education

Healthcare is a human right
 
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