That's why I mostly avoid the book OT thread, the non book thread isn't so bad. It's close to a point where I'm about to put a bunch of people on ignore, which is not something I normally do. I just don't have any interest in hearing a bunch of bitter people crap on a show they hate yet supposedly watch every episode.
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Vox: Game of Thrones will disappoint us in the end
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
That's why I mostly avoid the book OT thread, the non book thread isn't so bad. It's close to a point where I'm about to put a bunch of people on ignore, which is not something I normally do. I just don't have any interest in hearing a bunch of bitter people crap on a show they hate yet supposedly watch every episode.
ResidentWeevil13
Member
"Fickle" for "turning on got"?
TV shows aren't my friends. I don't need to be 'loyal' to them.
Once TV shows start sucking people have every right to criticize them. And GOT's shitiniess started way back in season 4 (Crasters Keep bullshit, Yara rescue mission, bungling the wall storyline in relation to the books). The turn against GOT has been a long time coming, because the show has gotten progressivley worse once D&D had to make up there own plots
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
I didn't mind it either and I loved the war arc making all the side characters and other villages relevant. The samurai fight with honzo was my favorite
"Turn" as it grows in legal viewership and piracy every season. Sure...
tonysidaway
Member
It doesn't seem to have come. Audience figures are higher than ever. Surely that must occasionally cause some cognitive dissonance among haters.
theignoramus
Member
The show will set viewership records next season and Vox, The Verge, and the rest of them can write up another half dozen articles about how dissapointing they find the show while they tune in every week.
theignoramus
Member
Not only that, the word of mouth from pirated, leaked episodes seems to increase the hype and boost viewership numbers when they actually air.
Its just a vocal number of nerds on the internet who've been complaining since season 3.
If the show was anywhere near as bad as some of these articles make it out, we'd see a precipitous drop off in viewership, like what happened with Walking Dead the last couple of seasons. (a show that truly took a nose-dive in quality)
ResidentWeevil13
Member
I was referring to a critical turn against the show from a portion of the fan base, which is what the commenter I was responding to and quoting was talking about. Don't divorce my comments from context.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
Man, this is exactly how I feel. lol
This is ridiculous. People have given reasoned, clear and concise reasons why they think the show has gone downhill. The writing and in world logic have absolutely gotten worse since the fourth season. It's seems obvious to me people don't like seeing a once great show go downhill.
I swear it seems like some of you want to apply no critical thinking at all to the show. Its a discussion forum but some people want a giant circle jerk over the show. Show some objectivity.
Yeah but the problem with an ever growing total fanbase is that there is no real way to measure this "portion of the fanbase" that is "turning from the show". It would seem to me that growth would slow or the viewership would decline if it represented anything significant. But its not so alas
It seems like there is a very small minority of people who once liked the show and now dont and want to scream this every chance despite no one else really latching on.
Your post is ridiculous to assume that he ignores the "reasoned, clear, concise" reasons. Those comments are often drowned out by the "omg this sucks" "end it now" shit that only serves to poison the discussion, if any is being had in the first place. Nobody needs a circle jerk, you show some objectivity.
Critical thinking about a show that has magic and dragons in it? Now that's funny. Either enjoy the show for what it is, or dont watch it. What is the point of nit picking a show and then whining about it week after week on a forum? Sounds fun... not.
Monocle
Member
Movie threads are like this too. Either the quality of GAF's TV and movie discussion has declined dramatically, or I didn't notice how toxic it was to begin with.
So just because the show has dragons and magic means it can throw all logic out the window? Before you start let me remind you that bad writing is not a nitpick. The show used to be much better and people dislike what it turned into. Saying, stop watching the show and do not complain its just dumb fantasy bro, is one of those shallow useless and disingenuous statements that serves no point.
Well clearly there's a lot more to a television show than writing and world logic. For all the problems of those things getting worse, season six is quite possibly the best season of the entire show, I'd say season one is the only to top it. Criticism is perfectly fine, it's the ridiculous hyperbole in that criticism and some people feeling the need to repeat themselves as often as possible that's f'ing annoying and I can't help but think that's the reason they do it.
Ocarina_117
Banned
Good post.
There's very little to no posts of that kind in the book thread. I'd like to see receipts. To the extent it drowns out active discussion in the thread.
This is bollocks.
The first seasons and books are held in esteem due to maintaining realism in character arcs, motives and interactions despite the high fantasy setting.
This is a show where the fiddling of a necklace led to discussion and theories being spawned on a murder.
People are going to DISCUSS a show on a DISCUSSION forum.
RoninChaos
Member
I definitely think there's something to it. Some people have been predicting these twists for 20 years. And when they get it right they're bound to be somewhat disappointed.
Maybe if Martin wrote quicker we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Discussing the show is fine. Incessant whining week after week is what is annoying. If I used this place to judge how the show was I would think it sucks ass. Season 7 was good, and season 8 is shaping up to be better. You guys keep being critical though week after week as you complain in real time as the episode airs.
RoninChaos
Member
I have to back the person you quoted, most of the complaints I see about the show are hyperbolic and bordering on parody. What that dude said is fair. Some people are saying that the shows creators haven't wanted to film this show since the 3rd season. That's patently ridiculous.
Yeah, the show has taken a dip it's far as quality goes but I'm always surprised at how much hate watching appears to be happening. Very few people in the book thread are enjoying the the show but they keep watching and shitting all over the show, like the books are flawless masterpieces or something.
Ahahahaha. Almost feell from my chair laughing. Thanks for that.
This sentiment is completely fucking ridiculous. Fantasy writers don't have to write logically anymore? What the fuck? Just because it has magic and dragons doesn't give readers/watchers an excuse to hand wave bullshit. As someone who was a fantasy writer himself for a while this almost offends me because it belittles the work good fantasy writers put into making their stories grounded and believable. Just because there are dragons doesn't mean literally anything goes.
Your quite literally saying the show is immune from criticism. So all fantasy shouldn't be criticised? Are you actually saying that? Writing, character development and internal consistency can be criticised in any genre.
I adored the first four seasons of GoT. I'm sad that,imo, the quality has declined. It's a valid opinion. All the snarkiness is coming from people who can see no problem with the show or more likely can and just don't give a a shit. Some people need more than spectacle.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Alpha quitters - https://www.marketplace.org/2011/07/22/tech/commentary/early-adopters-meet-your-match - used to apply just to tech and social media, but you see it with pretty much anything now.
Except of course most people don't even quit watching a show, they continue to 'hate' watch.
Queen Vulpix
Member
The only way GoT could disappoint me is if they cancel the 8th season. I have loved both the early seasons and the latest ones and GoT is probably my favorite western fantasy show/movie ever and I have no complaints <3
Phrozenflame500
Member
...It's almost as if people have different opinions about the show?
Well, I expect there to be dramatic spectacle, emotional character moments, and snow. As long as I continue to get these things I'll be happy. It's one of my top 5 shows of all time and I don't expect the last 6 episodes to change that. What can I say, I'm an optimist. Or maybe I'm just easy to please. 
Edit: Whoops I forgot. Dragons are also a requirement, and Dany must say dracarys at least one more time.
Edit: Whoops I forgot. Dragons are also a requirement, and Dany must say dracarys at least one more time.
Dash_Riprock
Member
See this is why I don't mind seeing the people bitch and moan about the show, since the knowledge that they are in the minority must be so soul-crushing to them (And it obviously is, otherwise they wouldn't keep whining about it). Reminds me of people who criticize TFA, and WOW is there a massive overlap between them and people who hate GoT nowadays. The hipster mentality is very real...
tonysidaway
Member
My "films you like that everybody hated" thread was pretty good, I thought. There was plenty of advocacy of unpopular films, not a lot of carping.
In a way, I can see how both the Game of Thrones anti-fandom and the championing of certain films both feed a need in gaffers to demonstrate their real or fancied superior intelligence and discernment. I assume we're mostly well out of our teens, but there's something endearingly teen-like about many NeoGAF comments.
I've only been a member of NeoGAF for three years or so, but having said that I see no sign of a great decline in quality. I think this is just part of who we are as a community.
This is exactly where I'm at.
And lol at people responding with WOW YOU HATE CRITICISM! Some people have a surprisingly difficult time separating toxic hyperbole from genuine criticism.
The show's not perfect. But I think our critical thinking skills are advanced enough to differentiate the two.
Criticism: I didn't feel like the Sansa and Arya stuff was handled well, the climax wasn't set up properly.
Hyperbole: OMG THE WORST WRITING EVER! THE DIRECTION, WRITING, ACTING, IT'S ALL HORRIBLE! GoT is TRASH TIER SOAP OPERA
Both can be found in this thread
The latter is mostly what I've been seeing in GoT threads. Makes for a tiring, pointless discussion.
And articles like this help perpetuate the problem. Basically pre criticising a season that hasn't even SHOT yet.
tonysidaway
Member
A very small and insignificant portion of fans, in the context of a year-on-year growth in popularity.
That _is_ the context.
cartographer
Member
Surely you can find the humor in this.
Let the butt hurt flow thru all of you! I loved season 7! It was one of the funnest seasons with some kickass moments. Only issue I had with it was it should of been 10 episodes. Everything was a little too fast for my taste. Bring on season 8 and give my favorite series a great ending!
Can you name one instance where book readers have claimed that the books are flawless and the show is nothing but trash on this board? Seems to me the only people throwing around hyperbole are the show defenders. Even book readers who have complaints usually say that seasons 1-4 were for the most part great. Even stating clearly time and time again why seasons 5-7 were disappointing. But i guess legitimate complaints get labelled as nitpicky or hyperbole by the people who cant defend their stance on it any other way.
Only show defenders are using hyperbole? You might wanna skim through this thread and also the main threads. Do you not think "trash tier soap opera", "the writing, acting, direction, editing are all terrible" and "there are no good actors left" is hyperbole?
I haven't seen anyone saying any of those things though.
99.5% of the criticism I have seen has been the writing.
ETA: ok, so rereading the thread, your beef is with one fucking poster. lol.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
There's been many others. Like I said it's not just this thread it's in the other main threads too.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
You could do a find and replace on this article and have a primo template to use for literally every long running TV show.
Hard to take a post like this seriously. Instead of making a case for why you think they are wrong or defend the show with valid points you just label people using hyperbole by using hyperbole yourself. Even in other topics the the posters who are hyperbolic are few and far between. There have been only one or two in this thread for example but that is all. Are you one of those who like to brush every piece of criticism as hyperbole?
Grenouille
Member
GRRM has had the ending planned for a long time now, right?
And the ending of Fever Dream was very emotional.
Both these things makes me think it could be really good.
Almost half of the OT discussion revolves around people trying to predict what's gonna happen next, and half the time they are successful. I don't know why people like doing that. I'd rather be surprised.
And the ending of Fever Dream was very emotional.
Both these things makes me think it could be really good.
Almost half of the OT discussion revolves around people trying to predict what's gonna happen next, and half the time they are successful. I don't know why people like doing that. I'd rather be surprised.
It's suffering from awful writing at this point, and HBO knows which path will make the most people happy. And they went there in the last episode. I don't think they care about finishing the series with any semblance of consistency as that went out the window already.
Everyone is 1 dimensional at this point, which is shit writing but makes for successful (ratings) TV, that's why Hollywood prioritizes the concept.
Everyone is 1 dimensional at this point, which is shit writing but makes for successful (ratings) TV, that's why Hollywood prioritizes the concept.
Some other examples:
Atrocious writing
Couldn't possibly be more disappointed. Season 8 will suck!!
This is just from what I remember and briefly skimming.
Lol and of course, I'M the one being hyperbolic. And I've already said lots of times that the show does have problems and isn't prefect. I never said there's not a good conversion to be had about its weaknesses.
Atrocious writing
Lannisters only good actors left..
Couldn't possibly be more disappointed. Season 8 will suck!!
Comparing the last three seasons to fucking McDonalds, lmao. Best for last
This is just from what I remember and briefly skimming.
Lol and of course, I'M the one being hyperbolic. And I've already said lots of times that the show does have problems and isn't prefect. I never said there's not a good conversion to be had about its weaknesses.
That shit ain't hyperbole though. It is exactly the problem with the show. Style over substance, gives you the dopamine hits of battle scenes and dragons and sex in the place of a coherent plot and decent characterization.
It's fine to enjoy a McDonald's burger, and it's fine to enjoy watching GoT on Sundays(I still mostly do, even with all my criticisms), but that doesn't mean you can argue that it is well written television, because it fucking isn't, any more than McDonald's is prime rib.
Outside of some obvious stuff that we all saw coming, a lot of the prediction success came from the fact that the entire Season 7 plot synopsis was leaked like 8 months before this season broadcasted. Between the leaks and the books (before the show overtook them in pace), GOT threads have always been full of people who knew what was going to happen pretending to have surprisingly accurate guesses.
Yeah, it's a decent analogy. Once the writers were on their own they went for a more mass market, focus group approach. The really liked good guys are safe, the details and politics take a backseat to special effects and explosions. It sells.
tonysidaway
Member
Perhaps you have a large ignore list. In this thread alone the ridiculous and wildly exaggerated criticisms have completely hijacked a thread that is ostensibly about a specific and highly limited case, that the writers have set themselves up with a situation in which no one resolution can satisfy every viewer.
The very first reply said, in full: "In the end? Did they see season 5?" Thus writing off a season that has a 95% average episode approval on Rotten Tomatoes. The seventh reply, though longer, dismissed Season 7, which saw the largest ever season-upon-season audience growth and contained the most popular ever single episode.
I didn't have to look far for these summary dismissals. These aren't attempts to analyse the show or to provide reasons beyond "the writing sucks".
People are right to complain when the level of criticism is this low. It's barely more than a sneer.