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Vox: How a recording studio mishap shaped 80s music

L

lazygecko

Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxz6jShW-3E

Great summary on the history and technology behind the particular reverb style that defined the decade.

There's even more to the story that isn't covered by the video though. Around the same time as Phil Collins was experimenting in Britain, there was The Power Station studio in New York which was deliberately constructed to get those heavy acoustics reminiscent of 60s Motown records. More than just an isolated freak accident, the reverb-soaked sound of the 80s was sort of an inevitable cultural backlash to the artificially dry sound that pervaded the 70s.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
That's what gated reverb is? I thought it was referring to that echo-like sound from a singer that was pretty common in the 80s.

Still, yeah that's a cool sound, which I always liked. Glad it's making a comeback. The 80s had the best music.
 
X

Xun

Member
I had a feeling it would be gated reverb when I saw the thread title.

Thanks for the link.
 
M

Mosse

Neo Member
Xun said:
I had a feeling it would be gated reverb when I saw the thread title.

Thanks for the link.
Click to expand...

I wrote a paper about Steve Lillywhite in school a few years ago and I remember a big part of it being about Phil Collins and gated reverb, so that was my guess as well when I saw the thread title
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Oblivion said:
That's what gated reverb is? I thought it was referring to that echo-like sound from a singer that was pretty common in the 80s.

Still, yeah that's a cool sound, which I always liked. Glad it's making a comeback. The 80s had the best music.
Click to expand...

I'm really pleased with how 80s sound is re-entering popular music. Trends that were considered gauche and gone forever when I was a kid in the 90s is now re-entering the mainstream. Love it.

Obviously this gated reverb is just one part of it... between synthwave, vaporware etc.... it seems like a lot of "dead sounds" are getting a second chance and re-entering the economy of music.
 
Daffy Duck

Daffy Duck

Member
BocoDragon said:
Obviously this gated reverb is just one part of it... between synthwave, vaporware etc.... it seems like a lot of "dead sounds" are getting a second chance and re-entering the economy of music.
Click to expand...

Because of things like Thor: Ragnorak, Blade Runner etc I have recently discovered a passion for synthwave, it's all I've been able to listen to recently.
 
I

iamblades

Member
lazygecko said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxz6jShW-3E

Great summary on the history and technology behind the particular reverb style that defined the decade.

There's even more to the story that isn't covered by the video though. Around the same time as Phil Collins was experimenting in Britain, there was The Power Station studio in New York which was deliberately constructed to get those heavy acoustics reminiscent of 60s Motown records. More than just an isolated freak accident, the reverb-soaked sound of the 80s was sort of an inevitable cultural backlash to the artificially dry sound that pervaded the 70s.
Click to expand...

You mean ruined it.

I still haven't forgiven Phil Collins for that shit.

A decade of what could have been good music ruined by shit drum sounds.

Also when I think 70's drums I think Led Zeppelin, which was not 'artificially dry' by any means.
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
iamblades said:
You mean ruined it.

I still haven't forgiven Phil Collins for that shit.

A decade of what could have been good music ruined by shit drum sounds.

Also when I think 70's drums I think Led Zeppelin, which was not 'artificially dry' by any means.
Click to expand...
There's other bands that made albums too and didn't record in big rooms in giant mansions.
 
J

JackAubrey

Member
iamblades said:
Also when I think 70's drums I think Led Zeppelin, which was not 'artificially dry' by any means.
Click to expand...

I agree with that. Page's drum production comes immediately to mind when talking about 70s drum sound. Not dry at all - especially the drums recorded with Bonham's kit in the stairwell/hall of Headley Grange with mics far from the kit.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
BriareosGAF said:
For sure there's no accounting for taste and it's, to me, one of the more lamentable sounds of the 80s. If I were to propose a sound that defined the 80s and was great it would be Marr's guitar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq3Hi6htzk4
Click to expand...

That guitar sound is not what I think of when I think of the 80s at all. Hell, it's not even the top 10 sounds I think of when I think of the 80s.

Unless there's a particular part of that video I should be hearing.
 
J

jstripes

Banned
iamblades said:
You mean ruined it.

I still haven't forgiven Phil Collins for that shit.

A decade of what could have been good music ruined by shit drum sounds.

Also when I think 70's drums I think Led Zeppelin, which was not 'artificially dry' by any means.
Click to expand...

It's not often on NeoGAF I get to call someone "old man".

As an '80s kid, that sound was amazing, old man.
 
V

Vital Tundra

Member
iamblades said:
You mean ruined it.

I still haven't forgiven Phil Collins for that shit.

A decade of what could have been good music ruined by shit drum sounds.

Also when I think 70's drums I think Led Zeppelin, which was not 'artificially dry' by any means.
Click to expand...
Ruined it? Come on now.
 
B

BriareosGAF

Member
Oblivion said:
That guitar sound is not what I think of when I think of the 80s at all. Hell, it's not even the top 10 sounds I think of when I think of the 80s.

Unless there's a particular part of that video I should be hearing.
Click to expand...

Are you familiar with the Smiths or REM? "Jangle pop", as it was sometimes called, was a post-punk movement/aesthetic that was important in the 1980s guitar sound, primarily driven by upper register tones on Rickenbacker semi-hollow bodies.
 
F

FrontalMonk

Banned
Daffy Duck said:
Because of things like Thor: Ragnorak, Blade Runner etc I have recently discovered a passion for synthwave, it's all I've been able to listen to recently.
Click to expand...

replace Thor: Ragnarok and Blade Runner with Hotline Miami 1 & 2 and you are me. A buddy of mine spins live DJ sets on tuesdays and alternates between electroswing and synthwave. I'm not the biggest electroswing fan but I try to always tune in on synthwave nights.
 
T

teruterubozu

Member
BriareosGAF said:
Are you familiar with the Smiths or REM? "Jangle pop", as it was sometimes called, was a post-punk movement/aesthetic that was important in the 1980s guitar sound, primarily driven by upper register tones on Rickenbacker semi-hollow bodies.
Click to expand...

lol. That's some post era analysis jargon. Nobody called it that in the 80s. All this need to categorize sub-genres is a modern phenomenon.
 
M

Myriadis

Member
teruterubozu said:
lol. That's some post era analysis jargon. Nobody called it that in the 80s. All this need to categorize sub-genres is a modern phenomenon.
Click to expand...

Doesn't change the fact that it is still a part of the 80s sound.

Compared to the sound of the other decades, the 80s is my least favorite, especially when combined with the Casio sound and rise of Drum machines. Doesn't mean that I completely dislike it, there is a good number of bands that used it well (The the, Tears for fears) and where it did fit well (The more poppy gothic rock like The Mission or some post punk bands).
 
Davey Cakes

Davey Cakes

Member
BriareosGAF said:
Are you familiar with the Smiths or REM? "Jangle pop", as it was sometimes called, was a post-punk movement/aesthetic that was important in the 1980s guitar sound, primarily driven by upper register tones on Rickenbacker semi-hollow bodies.
Click to expand...
Jangle Pop and New Wave are two of my favorite genres/movements in music. There's a very particular sound there that I really happen to enjoy. I guess that's why I keep finding myself going back to the late 70's and early 80's when I want to listen to something.
 
kruis

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
iamblades said:
You mean ruined it.

I still haven't forgiven Phil Collins for that shit. A decade of what could have been good music ruined by shit drum sounds. Also when I think 70's drums I think Led Zeppelin, which was not 'artificially dry' by any means.
Click to expand...

Musicians are always looking for fresh sounds. Those gated reverb drum sounds were exactly what the doctor ordered after decades of dry drum sounds. Decades later we may shake our heads at the 80ies infatuation with drum machines, FM synthesis, reverb overkill, crappy Fairlight samples, etc. But all of those things sounded exciting and new at the time.
 
B

BriareosGAF

Member
teruterubozu said:
lol. That's some post era analysis jargon. Nobody called it that in the 80s. All this need to categorize sub-genres is a modern phenomenon.
Click to expand...

Normally I would agree with you about navel-gazing categorization, but in this case since "jangle" as a sound started in the 60s, it was actually referred to as such in the 80s revival thereof. (Someone needs to write an Ali G script where he's talking to someone about jangle and he thinks they're saying jungle.)

Either way, just a way to refer to a specific sound explored at that point in time, and that the bands associated it were important (whatever that means to you) in the scene.

This is all to say: The Smiths were the best band ever, obviously.
 
T

teruterubozu

Member
BriareosGAF said:
Normally I would agree with you about navel-gazing categorization, but in this case since "jangle" as a sound started in the 60s, it was actually referred to as such in the 80s revival thereof. (Someone needs to write an Ali G script where he's talking to someone about jangle and he thinks they're saying jungle.)

Either way, just a way to refer to a specific sound explored at that point in time, and that the bands associated it were important (whatever that means to you) in the scene.

This is all to say: The Smiths were the best band ever, obviously.
Click to expand...

I know you're using the wikipedia definition. But if you look at all the references they used none are from the 80s (or even 90s), almost all are from the 2000s and 2010s. I was a consumer of 80s music in the 80s. Nobody called it jangle pop or looked to the Rickenbacker as a pioneer of a specific sound movement, that's all I'm saying.
 
F

Flux

Member
That's actually a really insightful article. I half expected the article to just read: cocaine?
 
B

BriareosGAF

Member
teruterubozu said:
I know you're using the wikipedia definition. But if you look at all the references they used none are from the 80s (or even 90s), almost all are from the 2000s and 2010s. I was a consumer of 80s music in the 80s. Nobody called it jangle pop or looked to the Rickenbacker as a pioneer of a specific sound movement, that's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...

In my case, I did in fact buy a white-on-black Ric 360 specifically because of Marr, as well as George Harrison, although not in the 80s, I didn't start playing until the mid-90s, and didn't have enough money to afford one until the early aughts.
 
W

Why would you do that?

Member
For whatever reason, despite being born in '89, I loved '80s music way more than pretty much anything else. Now I know a huge part of why!

I am also very happy about the current music trend of what's basically a huge '80s revival.


(Also, as a New Yorker, I enjoyed playing "guess the train station" with the video, lol.)
 
O

orava

Member
It's funny to read how people talk about "80's synthwave" and how they have always loved it. There really was no such thing and all most of the current trendy 80's style synth music is actually a new genre. Sure there was elecronic music it was quite different. Some movie soundtracks and game music probably come closest. But i like it and i'm happy that it exists.

The best name would be "newretrowave". It's new and it sounds retro. It's basically this idealized pseudo 80's thing that never really existed.
 
P

pswii60

Member
I love that big phat analogue reverby 80s sound, with all those big snares. Everything sounds too clean and lifeless these days.
 
A

Atom Heart Mother

Banned
Not the first time a Genesis member accidentally popularized/created a technique in music. The former lead guitarist of Genesis, Steve Hackett was the first to really use finger tapping on a popular rock record -- way before Van Halen or anyone in the late 70s/80s. All the members of Genesis are musical geniuses. Collins and Gabriel are amazing!

The Musical Box by Genesis
 
I

iamblades

Member
Timedog said:
There's other bands that made albums too and didn't record in big rooms in giant mansions.
Click to expand...

With the notable exception of When the Levee Breaks, Zep's drum sound had nothing to do with the room they were recording in, and even that was with the help of tape(err magnetic drum?) echo.

You have to really work to capture much room sound when you are recording an instrument with the dynamic range of a drum kit, and the way Bonham's drums were usually recorded does not really do that. It sounds like there is a lot of room reverb, but really it's just the drums being wide open and resonant. The room sound is waaay down in the noise floor, especially if the player is loud.

The problem is that in when mixer channels became effectively free(as started to happen in the mid-late 70s), it became super tempting to close mic drums because it makes it easier to mix and the drummer does not have to control their dynamics as closely, Problem being when you close mic everything all you get is attack and most of the resonance goes away. Putting a gated room reverb on top of it doesn't fix the problem though, it just makes it worse.

This still sounds better than anything made during the entire decade of the 80s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZZY4mrm--g

kruis said:
Musicians are always looking for fresh sounds. Those gated reverb drum sounds were exactly what the doctor ordered after decades of dry drum sounds. Decades later we may shake our heads at the 80ies infatuation with drum machines, FM synthesis, reverb overkill, crappy Fairlight samples, etc. But all of those things sounded exciting and new at the time.
Click to expand...

There is looking for fresh sounds and there is hopping on a gimmicky trend and using the same sound for an entire decade, regardless of context.
 
H

Henchmen21

Banned
orava said:
It's funny to read how people talk about "80's synthwave" and how they have always loved it. There really was no such thing and all most of the current trendy 80's style synth music is actually a new genre. Sure there was elecronic music it was quite different. Some movie soundtracks and game music probably come closest. But i like it and i'm happy that it exists.

The best name would be "newretrowave". It's new and it sounds retro. It's basically this idealized pseudo 80's thing that never really existed.
Click to expand...

Yes. This. Thank you. It's amazing how many of these bands trying to ape 80s music get it so wrong.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
teruterubozu said:
lol. That's some post era analysis jargon. Nobody called it that in the 80s. All this need to categorize sub-genres is a modern phenomenon.
Click to expand...

Sure they did. REM, Replacements, Smiths, and a lot of other Alex Chilton worshippers were called that at the time. One of my favorite sounds. Mitch Easter produced some of these acts.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
I didn't realize this all started with Intruder (though I did know it was a Peter gabriel thing). Always loved that song (and In the Air Tonight, despite disliking most of Collins vocal stuff).

WIkipedia said:
Lillywhite and Padgham's work on Peter Gabriel 3 was bookended with their work on XTC's Drums and Wires and Black Sea. In this period they perfected their technique on Terry Chambers' drums, which can be heard most distinctively on Black Sea (particularly songs Respectable Street, Generals and Majors and Love At First Sight).
Click to expand...

I love the whole Black Sea album too.
 
Squirrel Killer

Squirrel Killer

Member
BriareosGAF said:
Are you familiar with the Smiths or REM? "Jangle pop", as it was sometimes called, was a post-punk movement/aesthetic that was important in the 1980s guitar sound, primarily driven by upper register tones on Rickenbacker semi-hollow bodies.
Click to expand...
Never knew it by that name, but the Wikipedia list of jangle pop bands reads like my CD collection, including some pretty damned obscure stuff like Game Theory.

teruterubozu said:
lol. That's some post era analysis jargon. Nobody called it that in the 80s. All this need to categorize sub-genres is a modern phenomenon.
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure about that, I did a high school sociology survey in the late 80's where I broke down musical genres into like 30 genres. I remember breaking out gothic, showgaze, industrial, punk, pop-punk, folk-rock, etc, etc... I totally would have included "jangle pop" had I known the term (I think I threw it in to "college alternative" IIRC.) Then again, I did catch a lot of shit from the survey respondents for having too many choices...
 
N

Nappuccino

Member
I'm weird. I generally hate the original 80s sound. But this resurgence has been pretty great. A lot of artists take the sound and run with it in interesting ways.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Squirrel Killer said:
Never knew it by that name, but the Wikipedia list of jangle pop bands reads like my CD collection, including some pretty damned obscure stuff like Game Theory.


I'm not so sure about that, I did a high school sociology survey in the late 80's where I broke down musical genres into like 30 genres. I remember breaking out gothic, showgaze, industrial, punk, pop-punk, folk-rock, etc, etc... I totally would have included "jangle pop" had I known the term (I think I threw it in to "college alternative" IIRC.) Then again, I did catch a lot of shit from the survey respondents for having too many choices...
Click to expand...

Game Theroy is another Mitch Easter produced band, and a damned shame they never made it big. Loud Family, Scott Miller's follow up band, us also awesome.
 
G

gamz

Member
BriareosGAF said:
Normally I would agree with you about navel-gazing categorization, but in this case since "jangle" as a sound started in the 60s, it was actually referred to as such in the 80s revival thereof. (Someone needs to write an Ali G script where he's talking to someone about jangle and he thinks they're saying jungle.)

Either way, just a way to refer to a specific sound explored at that point in time, and that the bands associated it were important (whatever that means to you) in the scene.

This is all to say: The Smiths were the best band ever, obviously.
Click to expand...

I love The Smiths, but I'm partial to The Replacements.

Man, I adore the 80s music.
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
iamblades said:
With the notable exception of When the Levee Breaks, Zep's drum sound had nothing to do with the room they were recording in, and even that was with the help of tape(err magnetic drum?) echo.

You have to really work to capture much room sound when you are recording an instrument with the dynamic range of a drum kit, and the way Bonham's drums were usually recorded does not really do that. It sounds like there is a lot of room reverb, but really it's just the drums being wide open and resonant. The room sound is waaay down in the noise floor, especially if the player is loud.

The problem is that in when mixer channels became effectively free(as started to happen in the mid-late 70s), it became super tempting to close mic drums because it makes it easier to mix and the drummer does not have to control their dynamics as closely, Problem being when you close mic everything all you get is attack and most of the resonance goes away. Putting a gated room reverb on top of it doesn't fix the problem though, it just makes it worse.

This still sounds better than anything made during the entire decade of the 80s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZZY4mrm--g



There is looking for fresh sounds and there is hopping on a gimmicky trend and using the same sound for an entire decade, regardless of context.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I don't think you understand how acoustics work or how important they are to drum recordings. Have you recorded drums before? I have. Like a lot. In different environments with widely varying acoustics, including a studio designed in the 70s that was almost unchanged since. Sounds like there is plenty of room sound in that clip. Doesn't sound like the drum sound I think of when I think of the 70s (which is a good thing, minus that kick drum resonance).
 
J

JackAubrey

Member
Timedog said:
Yeah, I don't think you understand how acoustics work or how important they are to drum recordings. Have you recorded drums before? I have. Like a lot. In different environments with widely varying acoustics, including a studio designed in the 70s that was almost unchanged since. Sounds like there is plenty of room sound in that clip. Doesn't sound like the drum sound I think of when I think of the 70s (which is a good thing, minus that kick drum resonance).
Click to expand...

I'll tend to take Jimmy Page's word for it over iamblades.
 
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