Trickster
Member
Let's just pretend they don't exist, or something.
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(Warning! Essay) So...why do people say FFX and FF13 are the same?
- Thread starter Inuhanyou
- Start date
Let's just pretend they don't exist, or something.
Yes, i also forgot about the special spheres in my OP, but they do give the player even more flexibility to design their characters how they wish
Dénouement;151508348 said:
You're tripping. FF6 and 9 alone debunk that horseshit. Great characters, good, well-told stories and have long periods of nonlinear world exploration and side quests.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Whomever says these games are even remotely similar needs their goddamn head checked. It probably goes no further than "DURR LINEAR STAGES", which is in itself laughable.
I'm playing FF9 now and good god, wandering around on the world map is the worst part of the game. It takes so long for battles to start up and the battles themselves are so slow that I would never go looking around for anything. That's unimaginable. The battles are bearable if you know immediately where to go but if you're ever lost it's absolute torture.
X definitely has a better story than 6. 6's characters may be better but not enough is done with them compared to X. Especially World of Ruin. Most of the major characters have just 1 or 2 little scenes. They never feel like the close knit group that X's cast is.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I have seen this comparison multiple times before just because the story takes you in a straight line.
Even in the linear dungeons and small towns, X at least filled them up with NPCs. XIII was practically a ghost town (although I did not finish it, I 'only' played for 20 hours). You could argue that it's because the XIII cast were fugitives.
Even in the linear dungeons and small towns, X at least filled them up with NPCs. XIII was practically a ghost town (although I did not finish it, I 'only' played for 20 hours). You could argue that it's because the XIII cast were fugitives.
badcrumble
Member
It's mostly being said by people desperate to defend 13's game design. It's definitely not a good argument.
Aeriscloud
Banned
The hate for the XIII battle system is absurd, it's the best damn thing about the game.
As far as comparison, there are definitely some hallway moments in X, but nothing as extreme as XIII. The Crystarium needed to be more similar to the sphere grid, even it feels too linear most of the time. I sort of find the XIII settings to be more interesting, but damn if they weren't just backdrops for 80% of the game, and that sucked. I wanted to explore more of those beautiful backgrounds.
I would love to know what ideas and content that SE has claimed to have cut from XIII are. I don't think they have anything to do with the follow up titles.
As far as comparison, there are definitely some hallway moments in X, but nothing as extreme as XIII. The Crystarium needed to be more similar to the sphere grid, even it feels too linear most of the time. I sort of find the XIII settings to be more interesting, but damn if they weren't just backdrops for 80% of the game, and that sucked. I wanted to explore more of those beautiful backgrounds.
I would love to know what ideas and content that SE has claimed to have cut from XIII are. I don't think they have anything to do with the follow up titles.
Tidus_Great
Banned
people who say they are the same are just trolls who are over simplifying it. They are both linear story driven games.difference is FFX has towns, , better customization of weapons and armor, monster arena, ultimate weapon quests, blitzball, more diverse areas, better minor characters and most importantly better story and characters.
FFX you get to a new area and you can explore it talk with minor characters and admire the beauty. In FF13 you are on the run 95% of the time and cant enjoy the scenery, no interesting side characters or towns to explore, no quests, not nothing. The plot in FF13 is decent and i think the game is pretty good but its not the same as FFX.
It's all about execution. FFX is linear story driven done right. FF13 is linear story driven done wrong to the point it becomes repetitive and boring. With FFX they switch things up so often I never found myself getting bored at all. with FF13 you go through so many generic enviroments and battles you just want to get on with the story and stop fighting mobs of minor enemies.
FFX you get to a new area and you can explore it talk with minor characters and admire the beauty. In FF13 you are on the run 95% of the time and cant enjoy the scenery, no interesting side characters or towns to explore, no quests, not nothing. The plot in FF13 is decent and i think the game is pretty good but its not the same as FFX.
It's all about execution. FFX is linear story driven done right. FF13 is linear story driven done wrong to the point it becomes repetitive and boring. With FFX they switch things up so often I never found myself getting bored at all. with FF13 you go through so many generic enviroments and battles you just want to get on with the story and stop fighting mobs of minor enemies.
Aeriscloud
Banned
Can we talk about, for a moment, the moment you step into Nautilus for the first time in XIII and feel like this could be something big! And then it just turns out to be cutscenes and find the chocobo chick? This could have been the Luca moment. This could have been the Gold Saucer moment, and wtf did we get? Bombastic music leading to cut scenes and mean old Jihl.
Oh and we can't forget about Jihl Nabaat the character.
Hi, I'm a bad guy, I say terrible things, and I mean absolutely nothing. Also, you don't get to fight me.
I just can't. I can't.
Oh and we can't forget about Jihl Nabaat the character.
Hi, I'm a bad guy, I say terrible things, and I mean absolutely nothing. Also, you don't get to fight me.
I just can't. I can't.
threelights
Member
I wonder if people who hate Auto-Battle in FFXIII also play action games on Automatic and then complain about how the game is easy later...
Anyway, OP, I'll just repeat what I said before. This will settle nothing. People who want to compare both will still compare both...
And in a completely unrelated note, in terms of cast, the one thing FFXIII has in advantage over X is that the coolest character in XIII is cooler than the one in X (Sazh >>> Auron,
).
Anyway, OP, I'll just repeat what I said before. This will settle nothing. People who want to compare both will still compare both...
And in a completely unrelated note, in terms of cast, the one thing FFXIII has in advantage over X is that the coolest character in XIII is cooler than the one in X (Sazh >>> Auron,
and Balthier is better than both
Tidus_Great
Banned
lol at FF6 you mean the game where the plot basically dies when the WOR starts. gimme a break. and FF9 was not that open but it does have a good story that stays good the whole way. generally the more open a game is the more its story suffers. The best story games are linear.
Aeriscloud
Banned
Oh I like you. You know what's up.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Yep. It looks like a confrontation is finally going to happen but then...
She gets zapped by Space Pope for no reason. At the very least I expected a fight and then Bart says "You've failed me for the last time." or something and then kills her. Instead he just doesn't care and the entire scene becomes silly.
I like FF13, but it's a very frustrating game.
At least there's the
annoying
^ It was worse because they had featured her in tons of PV's like she was supposed to be a somewhat important character. LOLNO.
Worse than Tales of Zestiria's heroine bait and switch
Which is what my entire first post is about. Even this linearity you speak of is only skin deep. X gives you far more options in terms of pure variety of things to do and secrets to unlock than 13 which is a constant run through a series of pretty environments but no interacting or customizing or real input from the player outside of the battle system, which i agree can be fun if you forgo autobattle.
Worse than Tales of Zestiria's heroine bait and switch
Which is what my entire first post is about. Even this linearity you speak of is only skin deep. X gives you far more options in terms of pure variety of things to do and secrets to unlock than 13 which is a constant run through a series of pretty environments but no interacting or customizing or real input from the player outside of the battle system, which i agree can be fun if you forgo autobattle.
encephalon
Member
I would argue that the level design in ffx is actually more linear than ffxiii. Nor would I be surprised if the same was true of ffix (think lifa tree). The difference is that ffxiii lays it all there for you on a single map. It's so much more apparent how linear the map design is.
Thanks for the kind response. Again, i'm not trying to say anyone is stupid or dumb for liking 13. You can like what you like. But these two games and that argument are just not applicable at all. The two games arent on the same level.
I'm honestly surprised to see so many responses say they have never once heard of the charge. It literally comes up in every single FFX or FF13 thread that gets posted atleast once
I'm honestly surprised to see so many responses say they have never once heard of the charge. It literally comes up in every single FFX or FF13 thread that gets posted atleast once
Stereogatari
Banned
I personally think the games are much closer than some are passing off here.
* Both games are hand holdy and easy until the latter parts.
* Both have large expansive landmasses where the end-game content is.
* Both upgrade systems push you towards certain roles for the characters. You have to grind hard to create your own roles.
* Majority of FFX is walking straight in linear dungeons just like FFXIII. But it still has towns, just about.
* Racism towards Al-Bheds = racism towards L'Cie/People from Pulse.
* My Dad is a whale VS My Sister is a crystal.
* Sin destroys world VS L'Cie destroys world.
* Corrupt leadership/pope-like figures.
FFX is better, but it already had signs of the direction the series was heading.
* Both games are hand holdy and easy until the latter parts.
* Both have large expansive landmasses where the end-game content is.
* Both upgrade systems push you towards certain roles for the characters. You have to grind hard to create your own roles.
* Majority of FFX is walking straight in linear dungeons just like FFXIII. But it still has towns, just about.
* Racism towards Al-Bheds = racism towards L'Cie/People from Pulse.
* My Dad is a whale VS My Sister is a crystal.
* Sin destroys world VS L'Cie destroys world.
* Corrupt leadership/pope-like figures.
FFX is better, but it already had signs of the direction the series was heading.
dark_chris
Member
This.
You knew what X was gonna be about stepping into the game. Youre heading to one direction.
XIII boggles my mind on how it didnt give you an understanding of that.
toddhunter
Member
I appreciate the effort, but I have never, ever heard that 10 and 13 are the same.
The worst you will get is "10 is kind of linear as well"... Which is true.
In general, anybody trying to make any sort of valid case for 13 is just wasting your time or stirring you up. There is no case.
The worst you will get is "10 is kind of linear as well"... Which is true.
In general, anybody trying to make any sort of valid case for 13 is just wasting your time or stirring you up. There is no case.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think the two are absolutely comparable. But XIII takes X's bad traits and magnifies them by 10x.
X is sort of linear (far moreso than FFs before it - which disappointed me greatly when it was new) while XIII is so suffocatingly linear with some of the most straightforward level designs in the history of gaming.
X is sort of linear (far moreso than FFs before it - which disappointed me greatly when it was new) while XIII is so suffocatingly linear with some of the most straightforward level designs in the history of gaming.
Stereogatari
Banned
In FFXIII you're on the run as fugitives.
Earthpainting
Member
"The same" is an exaggeration, but I don't think it's unfair to connect the dots between the two. FF13 builds on the design philosophies that made FF10 what it was, and shares the most similarities with it from any other main entry in the series. I always thought FF10 was the first of its kind in the franchise, and FF13 is another one of those. It wouldn't surprise me if 13 was internally seen as a return to form after 12 too.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I had it explained to me before release that FFX was going for more realism, so no more "world map" with your disproportionately sized character sticking his head out of the top of a forest.
That was fine... I accepted that. But the lack of world map didn't mean that it had to have an A-B-C linear order of destinations. And the lack of a controllable airship was really disappointing. That was one FF tradition that I still haven't accepted that they've let go of.....
FFXII gave me the "no world map but open world" with criss-crossing destinations that I desired. It's superior to X and XIII in that way, for me. Hopefully XV gets this aspect right.
Soultaker0220
Member
I really hope FFX deliver. FFXIII was terrible, the only good thing I remember about it is the soundtrack and grund pulse.
Lemme fix that FFX Sphere Grid image for you:
(People say they're the same because superficially they both have an extremely linear gameplay path, limited exploration in each aside)
Europeans (and JP International Version) had the expert grid which gave you much more customization than the standard grid.
The HD version includes the Expert Grid too.
My opinions below
Yeah, I agree.
But FFX has more than the Calm Plain. You have the post-game areas you discover with the ship, there are optionable summons, and more diversity of sidequests.
The Standard Grid, probably. I've only played that game with the Expert Grid though. That gives you much more freedom. Crossing paths was really, really easy. There are less slots for the getting 255 in every stat part, but the flexibility is much better.
True. But as the OP said: A) Is masked. B) There are more and more interesting sideways.
I say A because you have stuff like towns and temples (which have puzzles) and there are more areas where you can wander around and find some special weapons / special summons / sidequests and other contents. I won't give you clear examples because I've played the game in Spanish so it's hard to me to name you a few. If you can't think of those examples I'd try to make the effort
Racism is a really common cliche in JRPGs. Not limited to FF.
I think the idea is different. The Dad part is a plot twist around the end of the game. The sister part is supposed to be Lightning and Snow motivation at the start of the game (well, outside them becoming crystals too).
Monster destroys the world is another JRPG cliche. Not limited to FF neither.
That's another JRPG common theme.
I agree with this conclusion even if I don't with some of your points. Final Fantasy XIII looks like the saw the success of FFX, decided to make a similar game but only scratched the surface instead of analyzing, what it did well and what it didn't.
I find in some ways FFXIII it's almost a caricature of FFX. You have the same flaws, but they're even worse. And you have many stuff that is quite similar in the surface, but when you try to go deeper you can't in FFXIII while you certainly can in X.
otaku-asia
Member
Well, they are far from the same. Actually every Final Fantasy main game is pretty unique on its own. However if you ask which Final Fantasy FF13 is closest to, then I'd agree it's probably Final Fantasy X.
Tidus_Great
Banned
in battle system i'd say it's closer to FFX-2 for sure
Ninja Kn1ght
Member
Aside from similarities with the levelling system, I don't feel like I've heard many people compare the two. FFX is pretty linear, but at least you always felt like you were exploring a vibrant world, FFXIII is just a lengthy sterile corridor for the most part and transitions into a massive empty field.
Yes, it was a shame. I don't know if Versus(15) still has that system, but i really hope they either balanced it to have it less frustrating or took it out completely
That doesn't mean they are even close enough to be compared, much less as a false dichotomy to defend another game that has surface similarities with none of the depth. The moon is the closest object to the earth in the solar system, still doesn't mean its easy to get there.
I respect your effort here, but I think in your effort to explain just how 'it couldn't be further from the truth' that they're the same, you're describing a lot of where their similarities lie, and where the comparisons tend to come from. I don't think many people meant they were truly exactly like one another, as there are obviously differences, but they tend to have many of the same trappings that ultimately lead to them both feeling like they are just different takes on the same general design ethos, perhaps excluding the combat aspect.
Eudaemonium
Member
he giant empty field was pretty much where the game got good, though, primarily because I think it was around the time you got all the roles for each character, which made the combat system infinitely more fun.
I really liked the FF13 combat system once it opens up. It's unorthodox, yeah, but I found the strategic paradigm shifting in a lot of the later fights pretty engaging as a player. It made the strategy different to earlier games, but I don't think it was intrinsically worse in any way.
I think the game would have benefitted greatly from giving you all 6 roles from the start, allowing you to experiment with different paradigm setups from early on. I think that would have made the first 20 hours or so a lot more engaging to play through.
plasmawave
Banned
Dénouement;151508348 said:
Wut.
FFX is great.
True. But in my haste to explain why i thought there were different, i probably got the crux of my point slightly off. Instead of explaining the differences, i was actually trying to explain why the basic similarities people point to are just skin deep and not really similar in design at all.
As you say, they are different takes on similar design ethos, but one was done a bazillion times better and with more depth and nuance in my opinion, which is why one of these games is generally praised and why the other's reception is generally mixed.
Many posts i've heard have tried to say in effect that people should like 13 because they liked X, and they are hypocrites if they claim to like X and no 13. That's mainly what my analysis was attempting to dispel.
ForsakenLotus
Member
I look at it like this: Final Fantasy X is an example of how to do a fairly linear JRPG right. It has a really good and diverse cast, a well told and paced story that for me makes me alright with the linear nature, and great customization through the sphere grid and weapons.
Final Fantasy XIII is basically the opposite. It has a terrible cast of characters, a muddled and horrendously paced story, and customization that is pretty lacking.
So while it's easy to see the similarities, most predominantly the linear structure of the game, it's also easy to understand why one gets away with it and another one doesn't.
Personally I love Final Fantasy X, and it's disappointing to see it maligned as much as it is. However I wish people wouldn't continuously lump it into the same category as XIII, because it's just clearly better.
Final Fantasy XIII is basically the opposite. It has a terrible cast of characters, a muddled and horrendously paced story, and customization that is pretty lacking.
So while it's easy to see the similarities, most predominantly the linear structure of the game, it's also easy to understand why one gets away with it and another one doesn't.
Personally I love Final Fantasy X, and it's disappointing to see it maligned as much as it is. However I wish people wouldn't continuously lump it into the same category as XIII, because it's just clearly better.
I dont like active time battles. I enjoy turn based battles.
I dont like that I need to swap settings in the middle of battle (when time is running) to different playstyles (hitter to magic to healing). I cant enjoy the visuals when I need to focus to changing tactics etc, thus Iam missing a lot of spell visuals & whats happening in the screen.
Click click enjoy click enjoy enjoy click..
vs
Click click click click click *what happened* *push button x in right time then push button z* click click *ask yourself do I enjoy this*...
For me FFX & FF13 arent the same, the X is the king, 13 is the clown.
I dont like that I need to swap settings in the middle of battle (when time is running) to different playstyles (hitter to magic to healing). I cant enjoy the visuals when I need to focus to changing tactics etc, thus Iam missing a lot of spell visuals & whats happening in the screen.
Click click enjoy click enjoy enjoy click..
vs
Click click click click click *what happened* *push button x in right time then push button z* click click *ask yourself do I enjoy this*...
For me FFX & FF13 arent the same, the X is the king, 13 is the clown.
The worst thing about it is that X actually does the same thing, only does it better. You can switch to any character at any time during battle. It accomplishes the exact same thing as the paradigm system but is more seamless, better integrated into the battle system, and makes use of all party characters instead of just three. So rather than going into the menu to change party characters and having to redo paradigms every time and only being able to play as one of them (which as a side effect limits your summons to only one), FFX gives you access to all characters and all roles in every battle, and since it's pure turn-based and not the half turn-based, half real-time garbage of the ATB system you can actually control all characters and not deal with AI being stupid. So you get your paradigm system without all the garbage, and to get the full range of summons all you have to do is switch in Yuna.
XIII's combat is just horrible all around, but I can understand how some people can enjoy it on its own. But when you compare it to X there's just no contest. They're both similar in concept, but X's is just plain better.
Ok, I gotcha. I think they are certainly different enough that its possible to like one and not the other and its the details that are often the difference between a good and a mediocre or bad game.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
They're similar games to me with just one difference: FFXIII does everything better. It's a more balanced and polished game than X ever was. Well except for the upgrade system of the weapons that was probably thrown in during the last stretch of development. As for all the rest is more focused than X without boring or stretched sections to play. It's fun and engaging from start to end.Also the battle system is actually deep and well thought and not just a copy and paste of paper, rock & scissor.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
While there are differences I see them rather as differences in degree rather than differences in kind. For the casual player without a deep understanding of the systems at play they are exactly the same. For the hardcore player with a deep understanding of the systems at play they are very different.
In my mind, because I care very little for these types of games: they are exactly the same. Just a different paint job and enough variety between the two so that people might mistake it for a whole other game.
In my mind, because I care very little for these types of games: they are exactly the same. Just a different paint job and enough variety between the two so that people might mistake it for a whole other game.
What did i just read. 13 sure did towns and mini games better.
I'd only argue the the battle system, I like both games battle systems, but I found FFXIII's more enjoyable and satisfying when it came to the high end top tier content... Unfortunately I only really started appreciating it in that way when it came to FFXIII-2's lightening DLC. >_> Then they change the system into that abomination of confusion that is Lightening Returns. <_<