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Was Donald Trump Really Against the Iraq War? (The Atlantic)

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T

Tom_Cody

Member
Wait, Trump didn't actually speak in opposition to the war in Iraq? He claimed this so aggressively during the debate that I just assumed he couldn't be making it up, but it looks like he didn't go public with his opposition to the war until 2 years in (when it had clearly had already started to go south).
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-iraq-war-thats-not-how-i-remember-it/462804/

Rough timeline:

October 2002: Obama gives speech opposing war.
October 2002: Congress votes on the war. Hilary Clinton votes in favor of the war, Sanders votes in opposition.

March 2003: Invasion begins
May 2003: Bush gives "Mission Accomplished" speech

August 2004: Trump begins vocally criticizing the war. By this time over 1000 US troops had already died.

"I'm the only one on this stage that said, ‘Do not go into Iraq. Do not attack Iraq,’ " Trump said. "Nobody else on this stage said that. And I said it loud and strong. And I was in the private sector. I wasn't a politician, fortunately. But I said it, and I said it loud and clear, ‘You'll destabilize the Middle East.’ "
-Trump during the primary debate

(please let me know if there are any errors)
 
C

Cerium

Member
I'm just pleased that he's popping the conservative establishment bubble regarding their ridiculous Dubya era nostalgia and revisionism.

Attacking the Bushes for Iraq and 9/11 in a Republican debate in South Carolina and likely winning in a landslide? I love it. He's shitting all over Dubya's legacy among conservatives.
 
H

hydrophilic attack

Member
Hey, I watched when that war was starting. And I saw in Trump Tower, New York, where Trump was loudly criticizing it thousands and thousands of times as that war was coming down. He criticized it thousands and thousands of times.
 
T

Tom_Cody

Member
metalslimer said:
Well unless he gave support at some point they can't really go after him on this
Click to expand...
"I'm the only one on this stage that said, ‘Do not go into Iraq. Do not attack Iraq,’ " Trump said. "Nobody else on this stage said that. And I said it loud and strong. And I was in the private sector. I wasn't a politician, fortunately. But I said it, and I said it loud and clear, ‘You'll destabilize the Middle East.’ "

lol
 
B

Buzzman

Banned
Tom_Cody said:
Wait, Trump wasn't actually opposed to the war in Iraq? He claimed this so aggressively during the debate that I just assumed he couldn't be making it up, but it looks like he didn't go public with his opposition to the war until 2 years in (when it had clearly had already started to go south).
Click to expand...

AHAHAHAHAHA

Welcome to the Republican Party.
 
A

Aikidoka

Member
Cerium said:
I'm just pleased that he's popping the conservative establishment bubble regarding their ridiculous Dubya era nostalgia and revisionism.

Attacking the Bushes for Iraq and 9/11 in a Republican debate in South Carolina and likely winning in a landslide? I love it. He's shitting all over Dubya's legacy among conservatives.
Click to expand...

It completely threw me that the crowd was booing so much in defense of Bush.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Tom_Cody said:
"I'm the only one on this stage that said, ‘Do not go into Iraq. Do not attack Iraq,’ " Trump said. "Nobody else on this stage said that. And I said it loud and strong. And I was in the private sector. I wasn't a politician, fortunately. But I said it, and I said it loud and clear, ‘You'll destabilize the Middle East.’ "

lol
Click to expand...

Welp, this still won't hurt him in the primaries because no one is going to go the left of him on this. This can only hurt him in the general.
 
E

Ecotic

Member
Seriously, I don't remember Trump saying anything about the war until some interviews with Wolf Blitzer years later.
 
GuyKazama

GuyKazama

Member
The Apprentice didn't start until 2004, and he had been somewhat out of the national spotlight before that time. Doubt anybody asked him.
 
A

Arkeband

Banned
Trump probably never actually spoke publicly on it until it was already in full swing, to be honest. His entire thing is capitalizing on publicity. It would make no sense to call it a disaster before he knew it was a disaster.

Trump also has such a reputation for stretching the truth but having a nugget of truth in his sea of bullshit that A) "I was against the Iraq War" is true as far as anyone knows, but then he can weasel in B) "I told them it was a bad idea", which is clearly false, but you can't call him an outright liar because A is true. He does this with almost every talking point he has. His book basically outlines his public speaking strategy.

He's playing the American public like fiddles because he knows we don't read anything other than each other's Facebook walls.
 
D

DontBeThatGuy

Member
He's full of shit. I mean, he did come against it at least, and the fact he's up there going hard on Bush and all those people is entertainment(right out of the comments section) but I'd love to see his evidence that he was against it from the get-go.
 
Iorv3th

Iorv3th

Member
DontBeThatGuy said:
He's full of shit. I mean, he did come against it at least, and the fact he's up there going hard on Bush and all those people is entertainment(right out of the comments section) but I'd love to see his evidence that he was against it from the get-go.
Click to expand...

If only twitter was around at that point in time.
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
Tom_Cody said:
Wait, Trump didn't actually speak in opposition to the war in Iraq? He claimed this so aggressively during the debate that I just assumed he couldn't be making it up, but it looks like he didn't go public with his opposition to the war until 2 years in (when it had clearly had already started to go south).
Click to expand...

This pains me so much.
 
W

WinFonda

Member
Article is trying too hard to discredit Trump's position in 2004. The Iraq War was by no means widely considered a quagmire at that point, and in fact, that was an election year and the republican propaganda machine was working overtime to make as many people as possible favorable to the war and the Bush presidency (obvious, or he wouldn't have won re-election.)

I would say mainstream anti-war sentiment didn't start to set in until 2006 or so.
 
O

Oriel

Member
Tom_Cody said:
"I'm the only one on this stage that said, ‘Do not go into Iraq. Do not attack Iraq,’ " Trump said. "Nobody else on this stage said that. And I said it loud and strong. And I was in the private sector. I wasn't a politician, fortunately. But I said it, and I said it loud and clear, ‘You'll destabilize the Middle East.’ "

lol
Click to expand...

I wonder how load and clear his opposition to the invasion would have been had he been a GOP Congress-critter.
 
M

Miles X

Member
If he's on record opposing it in 2004 I doubt it's a stretch to say he opposed it when it started. I mean he wasn't in the spotlight in 2001, why would it be publicised?
 
R

royalan

Member
CNN has been repeating it that there is no evidence that Trump was opposed to the war until we were already in the midst of it. Which makes sense seeing as it would have required Trump to demonstrate something other than hindsight thinking.

Miles X said:
If he's on record opposing it in 2004 I doubt it's a stretch to say he opposed it when it started. I mean he wasn't in the spotlight in 2001, why would it be publicised?
Click to expand...

Donald Trump has been in the spotlight since the early 90s.
 
E

Ecotic

Member
Miles X said:
If he's on record opposing it in 2004 I doubt it's a stretch to say he opposed it when it started. I mean he wasn't in the spotlight in 2001, why would it be publicised?
Click to expand...

I think the issue is Trump is saying he was incredibly outspoken at the time and that his opposition to the war was widely publicized.

He may have easily been against the war personally, but not publicly as he's bragging now.
 
E

EatinOlives

Member
Miles X said:
If he's on record opposing it in 2004 I doubt it's a stretch to say he opposed it when it started. I mean he wasn't in the spotlight in 2001, why would it be publicised?
Click to expand...

Uh, yeah it's a stretch. A lot happens in 3 years, and by 2004 it became clear the war was a mistake. Opposition against the war had solidified well before then.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Unless there's a record of him supporting it at some point this is a non issue. At best you're saying Trump was exaggerating how vocal he was pre2004.
 
R

Rubenov

Member
EatinOlives said:
Uh, yeah it's a stretch. A lot happens in 3 years, and by 2004 it became clear the war was a mistake. Opposition against the war had solidified well before then.
Click to expand...

What is everyone talking about? Didn't we invade Iraq in 2003? If so, Trump's video came only a year after we went in there. Maybe shortly after the Mission Accomplished pic.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
Being against the Iraq War in 2004 (even if that's when he started holding that position) is still MILES ahead of anyone on the Republican field at the moment.
Is there anyone there who is even willing to admit now it was a mistake?
 
R

Rubenov

Member
Chichikov said:
Being against the Iraq War in 2004 (even if that's when he started holding that position) is still MILES ahead of anyone on the Republican field at the moment.
Is there anyone there who is even willing to admit now it was a mistake?
Click to expand...

Exactly. In 2004 you still had a ton of DEMOCRAT support in Congress for the war, never mind Republican.
 
B

Bruce Springsteen

Member
This is a non story, no one can say he ever supported the war before it started, so unless someone has an undercover tape of him back in 2002 or something saying we should go to Iraq, it's going to be worthless trying to say he lied about it
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Chichikov said:
Being against the Iraq War in 2004 (even if that's when he started holding that position) is still MILES ahead of anyone on the Republican field at the moment.
Is there anyone there who is even willing to admit now it was a mistake?
Click to expand...
Everyone on the debate at one point on another agreed that the Iraq War was a mistake. Trump called out Jeb just in the last debate for not admitting it for a few weeks after he started campaigning.
 
R

Revolver

Member
Chichikov said:
Being against the Iraq War in 2004 (even if that's when he started holding that position) is still MILES ahead of anyone on the Republican field at the moment.
Is there anyone there who is even willing to admit now it was a mistake?
Click to expand...

Yeah, he's probably exaggerating his opposition to the war. But he said he was the only one on that stage that opposed it and even now I haven't heard any of the other ones criticize it unless to try to blame it's failure on Obama.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
jmdajr said:
The Clinton Blame is Hilarious.

It's wasn't 1/11.

It was 9/11
Click to expand...
Marco Rubio pulled that line that he thanks God Bush was president, and not Gore.

Maybe if Gore was president, he would have listened to Dick Clarke. Maybe the Secretary of State wouldn't have misspelled al Qaeda's name in memos.
 
G

GoldenEye 007

Member
The Llama said:
It's kinda crazy how much I agree with pre-2015 Trump tbh.
Click to expand...

Up until last year before he declared, Trump had always been associated with democrats/liberals. It's why so many people still wonder if he's a plant and just trolling. Obviously he isn't at this point, but it was a major talking point closer when he declared.
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
The Llama said:
It's kinda crazy how much I agree with pre-2015 Trump tbh.
Click to expand...
He's pulling the greatest bait and switch of all time. He appeals to the crazies with plans he could not possibly deliver while bringing in a lot of progressive policies for a republican.
 
Z

ZombiePlatypus

Member
Trump makes me feel like I'm living in a parallel universe. Specifically because when propped against the rest of the Republican nominees, I'm finding him....likable. I keep catching myself rooting for him as he faces off against his colleagues. Then I immediately feel the need to go and dunk my head in a tub of bleach.
 
J

Joni

Member
He was in a major interview one year after the war started to oppose it. Bush easily won an election based on his promise to continue it that same year. Let's be honest, Trump was ahead of at least 50 percent of the country. Otherwise kerry would be president.
 
B

Bruce Springsteen

Member
Joni said:
He was in a major interview one year after the war started to oppose it. Bush easily won an election based on his promise to continue it. Let's be honest, Trump was ahead of at least 50 percent of the country.
Click to expand...

this, no one is calling him a saint here, but of all things to attack Trump on, this is not one of them
 
E

Emperor Bohe

Member
Miles X said:
If he's on record opposing it in 2004 I doubt it's a stretch to say he opposed it when it started. I mean he wasn't in the spotlight in 2001, why would it be publicised?
Click to expand...

Donald-Trump-in-Home-Alone-2-20th-Century-Fox-640x480.jpg
 
T

Tom_Cody

Member
teruterubozu said:
You mean this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqA2Hs5dTFM

Posted on 2007, but people are saying it's from 2004.

He definitely sounds sane, almost presidential dare I say?
Click to expand...
This is from 2007. They talk about the Albrerto Gonzalez affair in the video (which dates it to 2007). By this time thousands of troops had died in Iraq.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Gonzales#Resignation

That said, he did publicly oppose the war in other interviews in 2004 so this is kind of a moot point.
 
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