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[Entryhazard]

It's amazing how much Sticker Star made people dislike Miyamoto a whole lot more.

Totally his fault on that though. The game was turning out like TTYD and he wanted to change it for the sake of it.

With dumb choices like pushing for removing the story in an RPG. And every Paper Mario had simple yet beautiful stories with lovable characters.
Also he pushed for removing every character or monster that wasn't from the core series aside Kersti that for the most time was insufferable.

Really he put the worse aspect of the NSMB games into the game removing all the real fun it had.

WTF was he thinking. A game utterly butchered.

This does not negate all the amazing accomplishments he had before but I'm lot less optimistic in his future output. I already see Starfox for Wii U utterly barebones.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

It wasn't that bad, reading this thread you'd think it was Sonic 2006 or something.

It was fun for what it was. The enemy designs were nice, it was cool to see enemies that hadn't been in Paper Mario turned into paper, and others that were made more consistent with their normal appearance.

I enjoyed it a lot, and this is coming from someone who adores the Paper Mario series and have been playing it since the beginning.

 

[Mr.Fusion]

It's the game I regret buying the most for 3DS. I loved the other Paper Marios, but I could only play this one for a couple hours. It's story is nonexistent and there's no incentive to battle.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Totally his fault on that though. The game was turning out like TTYD and he wanted to change it for the sake of it.

With dumb choices like pushing for removing the story in an RPG. And every Paper Mario had simple yet beautiful stories with lovable characters.
Also he pushed for removing every character or monster that wasn't from the core series aside Kersti that for the most time was insufferable.

Really he put the worse aspect of the NSMB games into the game removing all the real fun it had.

WTF was he thinking.

Wasn't he doing it because of criticism of SPM's story or something, that there was too much of it? So instead of saying "tweak this so it's at the levels of TTYD which got no complaints about its story", he's like "I guess people don't want story anymore"

 

[zogged]

Battles are completely pointless in SS, and when they were so damn fun in the previous PM games that's a pretty damn big negative

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

It's a solid and fairly fun game with its own charm that is not at all like Thousand Year Door and now everyone will tell you that it is "objectively terrible" because of it.

 

[axisofweevils]

I think it's the 3DS Other M.

Good game but flawed.
Not what some people were expecting / hoping from the IP. Plays differently to previous games.

 

[A Link to the Past]

It's a solid and fairly fun game with its own charm that is not at all like Thousand Year Door and now everyone will tell you that it is "objectively terrible" because of it.

"Battles are worthless" is not a criticism that has anything to do with being like TTYD. I'm asking for it to be like a game.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Wasn't he doing it because of criticism of SPM's story or something, that there was too much of it? So instead of saying "tweak this so it's at the levels of TTYD which got no complaints about its story", he's like "I guess people don't want story anymore"

IMO, Super Paper Mario went in the opposite direction, it ignored traditional Mario enemies and designs as much as it could and certain parts of the game almost end up feeling like a totally different series with random Mario cameos than an actual Mario game. It didn't enjoy that aspect of it, it felt too distant and alien.

I know this isn't particularly popular, but as far as design of and selection of environments and enemies, I prefer Sticker Star.

 

[Entryhazard]

Wasn't he doing it because of criticism of SPM's story or something, that there was too much of it? So instead of saying "tweak this so it's at the levels of TTYD which got no complaints about its story", he's like "I guess people don't want story anymore"

It was because in the Club Nintendo survey very few pointed at the story as the best aspect of the game. And it makes all of it even more moronic.

 

[Reset]

I think it's the 3DS Other M.

Good game but flawed.
Not what some people were expecting / hoping from the IP.

Zero reason to enter a battle, in fact battling was more of hassle because it made you waste stickers.
Since the gameplay itself was complete shit, you think it'd be one of those games that maybe it has a somewhat decent story to redeem it self. But the game didn't have one at all, it was complete barebones.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Didn't Sticker Star sell more than the first two Paper Mario games?

 

[Glowsquid]

Didn't Sticker Star sell more than the first two Paper Mario games?

it's the 2nd best selling game in the series (SPM is first overral).

 

[A Link to the Past]

Didn't Sticker Star sell more than the first two Paper Mario games?

Well yeah, it sold more than games on the N64 and GameCube.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Good ideas, bad realization. I honestly would like to see another shot at it...

* Sticker System had potential, being a lite-Baten Kaitos type system, but lacks a real risk/reward element to it. I honestly was not that upset with Partners gone since it seems like a cool replacement, but badly implemented. I think if more of the Stickers summoned enemy characters, that would be a nice balance.

* It's the most "authentic" RPG to the mainline Mario canon, perhaps, and this could've been really neat if done right...imagine giving all the established characters like Birdo, Bowser Jr., Daisy, etc. the chance to actually have characters! Unfortunately, Miyamoto didn't let them do that so all the established characters that appear like Bowser Jr. (in his first RPG appearance, something I wanted for years!) come off as flat and more or less just random foes. Kamek perhaps is the most fleshed out, but barely. Paper Mario 64 DID THIS RIGHT by fleshing out the established cast like Peach, Bowser, and Luigi, and still feeling like it was part of the Mushroom Kingdom (which TTYD and Super both faltered on I feel), but also could do its own thing when need be.

* The World Map was pretty cool. I liked that, and with a good plot and more interesting locations, would actually like to see that in the next Paper Mario.

Honestly, I think the lack of an enticing plot is the biggest death-kiss to the game. TTYD and Super Paper Mario have a lot of questionable elements as well, some really tedious moments, but they both, imo, have great writing that made you overlook their flaws. Sticker Star doesn't have that, so there's no real push to see what the game has to offer once you realize a lot of it falls flat despite having a strong presentation graphically and musically, and some neat ideas.

Some people think they should totally abandon every single idea in Sticker Star, and those folks are wrong. What they should do, like any good developers should, are study what works, and what didn't work, and try and refine that. Imagine if every developer tossed out an idea after a weak first entry---we'd miss out on a lot of great, refined games.

 

[theprodigy]

it's the 2nd best selling game in the series (SPM is first overral) and the best selling one in Japan.

wow, it's almost like the games on bigger install bases sold more

 

[Zen_Arcade]

The only positive aspects were the music and that the art style and graphics are good. The sticker system is awful and I didn't find it fun to play at all. By far the worst Paper Mario game.

wow, it's almost like the games on bigger install bases sold more

Why are you giving him an attitude when he was just answering someone else's question?

 

[Ninjimbo]

You can get all the coins you need from outside of battle. People aren't exaggerating that you can get through the game without doing battles.

Also yes, I guess people are upset that a series renowned for its story got a sequel that had no story. That a series whose top characters (quality-wise) usually includes Bowser got a sequel where Bowser is no more a character than a rock. Weird that people respond to bad design by pointing out just how bad it is.

Well, I didn't care too much about the story in the Paper Mario games. They were derivative of everything you see in a shonen anime. About the coins, you got some in the levels but you got a whole lot more if you actually battled which were useful for stocking up with stickers for boss fights and buying the special stickers you find on the field that were critical for finding some secrets. People make it out to be like figuring the boss' weak points were this obvious thing like a Zelda boss. It wasn't. It was way more cryptic than that and it was easy to find yourself in a battle against a boss and running out of stickers if you didn't play smart.

The game is good fun. Throw the RPG elements out the window. They were never all that interesting in the Paper Mario games. TTYD was an awesome because it had you doing creative shit like drawing on enemies and tapping A on the correct frames of animations. It wasn't fun because of by the numbers stat whoring.

 

[SolidChamp]

Nope.
GAF hyperbole

I'd go with this. For a free game, this is absolutely fine.

It's charming as hell and looks gorgeous in 3D. The battle system might be light on the RPG elements, but traversing the world is still very satisfying.

It's not even close to being the best Paper Mario game, but you could do far, far worse than this. It's fun, and it's one of the few 3DS games that had my attention from start to finish.

 

[twozerotwo]

Shit sucks, brah.

No joke. Super excited for it and enjoyed it a bit but that wore off VERY fast. Traded it to my co-worker for free lunch one day.

I enjoyed the pho I got more than the entire playthrough of Sticker Star.

 

[brinstar]

It's very flawed, but I actually quite enjoyed my time with it. I think it has the most fun worlds to explore in the series and the graphics and music are top notch. But the gameplay side of it is very oddly balanced as people pointed out in this thread already.

I never thought it was the pile of shit a lot of people believe it to be but I definitely would've preferred something like the first two games more.

 

[Velcro Fly]

I don't get the hate.

If this game was called something else people wouldn't have cared.

It's not TTYD2 after the shitstorm of SPM so people are pissed.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

TTYD was an awesome because it had you doing creative shit like drawing on enemies and tapping A on the correct frames of animations. It wasn't fun because of by the numbers stat whoring.

Actually, I've seen quite a few people who dislike TTYD because it moved a bit more towards typical RPG territory...

It dropped the very humble level cap of 64, which took some of the simplistic "depth" out as you weren't as limited. For example, in 64 by Chapter 5 I ran out of BP and basically had to really pick and choose---in TTYD, you can earn enough BP to basically use everything.

Plus giving Partners more depth with HP I think sort of removed the cute puzzle-element of the original, where the Partners were an extension of Mario instead of full-members, and it seemed like there was more of a strategic element to switching Partners for the right foes, where I think in TTYD it was far easier to just brute force.

But different strokes.

If you think about it, the most effective way to play 64 and TTYD is just battle a bit early on to get enough EXP to make Danger Mario viable, and then basically avoid all random encounters since leveling up too far can ruin the Danger build. So you could say even in the first two battles became less important as time went on.

 

[FleetingFlowAir]

I at least liked Super Paper Mario. Sticker Star was terrible all around. It's like every fun part of an RPG game was stripped from it.

 

[Hispanic! At the Disco]

When my friend asked what my worst goty of last year was I said Sticker Star. He then reminded me that its a 2012 game. My hate for that game is so strong it is always fresh in my memory and has been my worst goty for 3 years now.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I like SPM because even though it's flawed, it at least succeeded enough at the idea they tried to do. Sticker Star had a good idea and fucked it up because they did a bad job of executing it. I was behind Sticker Star for the entirety up its existence up until I actually played it. I gave it every opportunity to succeed as its own game, and it failed.

 

[zogged]

Totally his fault on that though. The game was turning out like TTYD and he wanted to change it for the sake of it.

With dumb choices like pushing for removing the story in an RPG. And every Paper Mario had simple yet beautiful stories with lovable characters.
Also he pushed for removing every character or monster that wasn't from the core series aside Kersti that for the most time was insufferable.

Really he put the worse aspect of the NSMB games into the game removing all the real fun it had.

WTF was he thinking. A game utterly butchered.

This does not negate all the amazing accomplishments he had before but I'm lot less optimistic in his future output. I already see Starfox for Wii U utterly barebones.

Yeah, I kinda started hoping he would start taking a more hands-off approach after SS. I also felt that even more when he stated that he wouldn't consider a new F-Zero until they worked out an "innovative new control scheme" or something along those line. Seriously, its a racing series that demands an extreme amount of precision, you don't need to change it in any drastic way.

 

[Grexeno]

EDIT: nevermind

 

[rhandino]

wow, it's almost like the games on bigger install bases sold more

You see, if SPM was so hated as the Internet could make one believe I could see the next entry selling even less regarding the install base...

Also, I think the one you quoted only answered the question, no need to being so extra =/

... maybe I need to play TTYD, the hype for that game is too much and I only played SPM and Sticker Start (Love them both a lot)

 

[TheyTookOurJobs]

Avoid at all costs. The battle system using stickers is terrible, the puzzles are hard and it's just an all around bad game.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Yeah, I kinda started hoping he would start taking a more hands-off approach after SS. I also felt that even more when he stated that he wouldn't consider a new F-Zero until they worked out an "innovative new control scheme" or something along those line. Seriously, its a racing series that demands an extreme amount of precision, you don't need to change it in any drastic way.

The biggest gut-punch was that he put token innovation into Mario Kart so often, including one that could have been utilized for F-Zero instead of Mario Kart (the gravity). F-Zero could have had gliding, it could have gone underwater, it could have had gravity defiance or motorcycles, but Miyamoto gave them all to Mario Kart and was left scratching his head as to why there's nothing left for F-Zero to try.

You see, if SPM was so hated as the Internet could make one believe I could see the next entry selling even less not more regarding the install base...

Also, I think the one you quoted only answered the question, no need to being so extra =/

... maybe I need to play TTYD, the hype for that game is too much and I only played SPM and Sticker Start (Love them both a lot)

Why would that be the case? Other M isn't hated by the mainstream, that shouldn't go to say that the hate is just some fringe critics/players.

 

[theprodigy]

You see, if SPM was so hated as the Internet could make one believe I could see the next entry selling even less regarding the install base...

Also, I think the one you quoted only answered the question, no need to being so extra =/

... maybe I need to play TTYD, the hype for that game is too much and I only played SPM and Sticker Start (Love them both a lot)

typically, even games with heavy backlash don't end up affecting the sales of the game itself (unless you're Metroid: Other M LOL), it affects the sales of the next one

also I suspect Super Paper Mario, as divisive as it is, was received better

Spoiler

and it's definitely better than the first game, I mean seriously

 

[Pokemaniac]

This guy gets it mostly.
While I managed to appreciate it, I kept a guide at hand for when to use the thing stickers as most of the puzzles using them are obtusely obscure.

But in the end there's no way to spin it to something that is not a huge downgrade to the previous games like TTYD, and the fact that Miyamoto was a huge factor in this worsening adds to the shock value.

Yeah, I probably wouldn't have finished the game without a guide.

 

[zogged]

You see, if SPM was so hated as the Internet could make one believe I could see the next entry selling even less regarding the install base...

Wait real? Sure it had some pretty big flaws, but SPM still managed to be a thoroughly enjoyable games and had a story up there with TTYD. I never thought it would be hated to that degree.

 

[ChrisD]

The game was okay but mostly because of the soundtrack. The music was ama-

Music is irritating

confound it

 

[Wanderer5]

It was definitely a major disappointment to say the least. The sticker system had it merits, but ugh the setup for the battles and boss fights were pretty bad. The game also suffered from lacking a charming story/cast of characters. Graphics and the music were top-notched, but otherwise....

Sheesh Super Paper Mario at least work well for what it was despite being very different.

 

[mullet2000]

It's not a bad game. It's a bad Paper Mario game.

It's bad by both standards.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

It's bad by both standards.

No it's not.

How bad has gaming become where a game with an average score of 75 is a terrible game? Mediocre yes, but bad? No way

 

[RM8]

I love all PM games and SS is my favorite :/ I'll never understand the hate, it's clearly not a traditional RPG (it's more of a puzzle adventure game) so bashing it for not being a traditional RPG is silly to me. It's not flawless, but it's not a bad game.

FWIW it outsold all previous PM games in Japan, it had pretty nice legs (which doesn't happen when there's negative word of mouth).

 

[rhandino]

I suspect Super Paper Mario, as divisive as it is, was received better

Spoiler

and it's definitely better than the first game, I mean seriously

Well, your spoiler is not lie =D

Wait real? Sure it had some pretty big flaws, but SPM still managed to be a thoroughly enjoyable games and had a story up there with TTYD. I never thought it would be hated to that degree.

Yeah, I guess it steamed from the fact that it came after the VERY beloved TTYD, the backslash was and is very real.

I was hooked for the story and characters tho, such a funny and creative game. Loved the part were you can refuse to use a helmet on space and your companion asks you if you need one a LOT if you say no until she stops bottering you and

Spoiler

you obviously get a game over X_x

EDIT: HERE IT IS =3

 

[zogged]

No it's not.

How bad has gaming become where a game with an average score of 75 is a terrible game? Mediocre yes, but bad? No way

Without going off other people's scores I can safely state that my experience with SS left me feeling like it was an overall bad game. There was nothing to the story, nothing to the gameplay. The only thing I even remember doing was a whole lot of walking.

 

[dreampeppers99]

It's bad =/

One thing I liked it, though! this music

https://www.youtube.com/embed/tUpbaJePhLo (Decalburg - Paper Mario: Sticker Star)

 

[jnWake]

I haven't played it but the soundtrack seems damn good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wubN9O34TkY

That remix <3.

 

[Ezalc]

Keep in mind this was the first we saw of it:

Goddamn it does this hurt. I would have loved to have a Chain chomp as a partner.

The biggest gut-punch was that he put token innovation into Mario Kart so often, including one that could have been utilized for F-Zero instead of Mario Kart (the gravity). F-Zero could have had gliding, it could have gone underwater, it could have had gravity defiance or motorcycles, but Miyamoto gave them all to Mario Kart and was left scratching his head as to why there's nothing left for F-Zero to try.

A few things on this, I somewhat agree but: motorcycles and going underwater are not needed for F-Zero. Also, gliding is already a part of it and so is the gravity mechanic. The only thing F-Zero really needs is to make it HD and put it online. F-Zero GX is perfection, all it needs is to look even better and to have great online. It isn't a hard concept to grasp. Maybe put in a course editor like the 64 game and there you go.

But returning to the thread, best answer was that it may not be a bad game OP, it's just a bad paper mario game.

 

[RM8]

I haven't played it but the soundtrack seems damn good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wubN9O34TkY

That remix <3.

It has the best soundtrack in the series, honestly.

 

[A Link to the Past]

No it's not.

How bad has gaming become where a game with an average score of 75 is a terrible game? Mediocre yes, but bad? No way

Y'know, people talk of "people wouldn't hate it so much if it was a Paper Mario game", but that rings true for the reverse. Being Mario got it better reviews.

 

[SalvaPot]

GAF already proved that Metroid: Other M was a good game, so we may need another one of those "Stand and be counted" threads to see how many enjoyed it vs how many hated it.

I liked it a lot, not as good as the others but pretty good.

 

[A Link to the Past]

GAF already proved that Metroid: Other M was a good game, so we may need another one of those "Stand and be counted" threads to see how many enjoyed it vs how many hated it.

I liked it a lot, not as good as the others but pretty good.

I don't trust people who consider Other M good

I guess that means I do not trust NeoGAF

 

[Alchemy]

It isn't awful, but there is literally no reason to ever fight a random battle, and the main focus of the game is the combat system, so...

This is really the only problem with the game, but it is a HUGE fucking problem. Running from every single damn enemy you find is pretty obnoxious, and there really isn't anything else there to hold the game together. The writing, story, and characters are the weakest of the series as well.

 

[theprodigy]

GAF already proved that Metroid: Other M was a good game, so we may need another one of those "Stand and be counted" threads to see how many enjoyed it vs how many hated it.

I liked it a lot, not as good as the others but pretty good.

you mean a thread that was basically a call for Metroid: Other M fans had a majority of the posters in favor of it? try making a poll for it on GAF and see how it goes