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Washington Redskins, should we care?

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C4Lukins

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2006
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http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/03/07/fight-on-battle-over-redskins-name-heads-to-court/

So this battle has been waging for decades now. For the sake of people who may live outside of the US, we have an American Football team named "The Redskins," and there is a debate on whether or not that name can be trademarked by the team because of certain laws in the US which prevent ownership of essentially disparaging names.

I am not really all that concerned with that. I do not think you should be able to trademark the term Redskin anymore then you could do the same for the word Cowboy.

What I do find interesting is that we have a major sports franchise, with the name Redskins and we are mostly cool with it in the US. We justify it because they have an awesome helmet which seems respectful to native Americans, and it would just suck to see a franchise that most of us have known of, loved or hated our entire lives have to change their name in order to be politically correct.

But it is undeniably a messed up team name, that no matter what the intent of paying respects to our heritage may encompass, it is still a name that would probably offend most Native Americans. You simply just have to imagine calling a team the Blackskins, or Yellowskins in order to immediately feel a bit icky about the whole thing.

So outside of the trademark argument, what say you GAF? Should the pissed off Native Americans, and many other Americans who are offended by such things win the day? Or is tradition and acknowledgement of our past with a sidebar enough?
 

vas_a_morir

Banned
Jul 4, 2006
30,999
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Change the name; keep the helmet. The helmet is respectful, but I feel the name is not.

 

MWS Natural

Member
Jul 23, 2007
14,157
2
1,245
They should change the name to the Washington Warriors, problem solved. Redskins is a stupid ass name anyways.
 

ChiTownBuffalo

Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Jan 26, 2009
16,121
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Chicago
The name is reprehensible. And the argument that its a source if pride is even worse.

Replace the logo with Shanahan Rat Face.
 

Lambtron

Unconfirmed Member
Jun 6, 2004
18,511
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That mascot is gone far as I know (the Cleveland one). Seconding the "Warrior" idea.
They use a block C on their caps now, but Chief Wahoo is most definitely still around.

Redskins is a terribly offensive name. Change it right now.
 
Oct 27, 2011
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Chief Wahoo has been de-emphasized (first made smaller, then removed from the primary road cap) but still appears in a sleeve patch, on the primary home cap and alternate road cap. From what I understand the block-C logo is pretty popular, so I believe they are moving toward getting rid of him, but haven't gone all the way yet.

Edit: Beaten
 

see5harp

Member
May 12, 2009
20,072
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They already had to change from the awesome Bullets to the lamest in league Wizard's moniker. I do think it's offensive though. People would be pretty damn mad if a team was named The Boston Negroes.
 

BertramCooper

Banned
Sep 3, 2009
34,225
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It's kind of funny that the Washington Bullets' name was changed because it was deemed inappropriate, but the Washington Redskins' name still persists.

So it's going away. Good.

Part of me will be a bit sad to see him go merely because he's somewhat symbolic of my childhood, but I absolutely understand why people find him offensive and I won't be fighting to keep him around.
 

Tobor

Member
Sep 15, 2006
41,041
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They already had to change from the awesome Bullets to the lamest in league Wizard's moniker. I do think it's offensive though. People would be pretty damn mad if a team was named The Boston Negroes.

I don't mind the Wizards name, it's just a terrible logo.

As far as the Skins go, I don't see them changing it unless legally ordered to do so.
 
Oct 27, 2011
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Did you all hear the Braves nearly brought back Chief Noc-A-Homa on their BP cap this year? It got scuttled at the last minute, but it appears in the style guide. I can't believe this even *almost* happened in 2013.

 

C4Lukins

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2006
14,181
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So just an additional level to this. Is Redskin a disparaging term if nobody uses it that way? I have never heard anyone refer to a native American as a redskin. "Fuck you redskin... you are acting like such a redskin..... I have more scalps then your average redskin.." I mean if a term is so outdated that even racists do not ever use it in a sentence, does it still have any meaning at all?
 

Tobor

Member
Sep 15, 2006
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It's kind of funny that the Washington Bullets' name was changed because it was deemed inappropriate, but the Washington Redskins' name still persists.

There was an extra level of uncomfortable with the Bullets, given that it was an NBA team in a predominantly black city. I'm uncomfortable just typing that, but we all know that's the reason.
 

BertramCooper

Banned
Sep 3, 2009
34,225
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University of Illinois had a prelim vote on bringing back the Chief today. Interesting.

I felt bad for Illinois. Not only was Chief Illiniwek a badass logo, but I don't understand how he could possibly be seen as offensive or culturally insensitive.



You can thank the NCAA's misguided militant political correctness campaign for that one.
 

Dega

Eeny Meenie Penis
May 28, 2006
16,174
1
1,135
Change the name; keep the helmet. The helmet is respectful, but I feel the name is not.

http://dyn-images.hsni.com/is/image/HomeShoppingNetwork/prodzoom/riddell-washington-redskins-authentic-on-field-helmet-d-20110219000654397~6372454w.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mx8EvcG.jpg
 

WedgeX

Banned
Nov 21, 2004
20,778
0
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The National Congress of American Indians supports a change. The Mayor wants it to change. NBC's Jim Vance is not in favor of the name. The City Paper now refers to the team as the Pigskins. The DCist refers to the team as only the 'Skins. And the Washington Post has a series of articles, one here and here, about how terrible the name is.

The Post's is specifically awesome.

The only morally defensible argument for keeping the name of Washington’s professional football team is that people (like me) who wish to replace “Redskins” are supposedly exaggerating the problem because of political correctness run wild.

In this view, the name’s critics are just a small group of overly vocal, overly sensitive Native Americans backed by a knee-jerk chorus of guilt-ridden, non-Indian liberals.

I don’t think the case stands up, but the argument deserves to be addressed. That’s true especially given the recent surge of interest in the topic and the team’s attempt to dismiss complaints about the name as “ludicrous.”

The strongest argument for keeping the name is that Native Americans themselves aren’t unanimous in objecting to what Indian critics call the “R-word.”

“It doesn’t bother me one bit. There are other issues that we should be concerned about,” said George Blanchard, governor of the Absentee Shawnee Tribe of Oklahoma, which counts about 3,000 members.

Some members of Blanchard’s tribe send their children to McLoud High School, whose team is also called the Redskins. The Washington team has pointed to the McLoud nickname as evidence that the word was acceptable to Native Americans.

However, other chiefs and national Indian leaders said the number of Native Americans who share Blanchard’s view has declined with time. Most Indians would prefer to see the Redskins name discarded, they said.

“If it went through a vote [of Indians], I think it would be overwhelming to drop it. I’ve always thought the word [Redskins] was very offensive,” said George Tiger, chief of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, which is also based in Oklahoma and has 75,000 members.

All major Native American organizations have formally called on sports teams to discard Indian names and mascots.

Here in the Washington region, the chief of the Piscataway Indian Nation has been staging protests against the team’s name since 1980.

“If the team had another name related to black folks, that stadium would be on fire,” Billy Redwing Tayac said. “Redskins is a racial slur for North American Indians.”

Piscataways were based at Accokeek, about 20 miles from what is now FedEx Field, when European explorers first sailed up the Potomac. Perhaps Tayac hasn’t had much success because only 108 Piscataways remain.

“We’re lucky we even survived, when you look at the [anti-Indian] policies of the colonial and federal governments,” Tayac said.

The debate over the name reignited this month, mainly because of a first-ever symposium on the topic Feb. 7 at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of the American Indian.

Initially, the team declined to comment. That quickly became impossible, so General Manager Bruce Allen spoke up Thursday and said there was no reason to change the name.

“There’s nothing that we feel is offensive,” Allen said. “It’s ludicrous to think that in any way we’re trying to upset anybody.”

The second half of that quote is fine. Many Indian advocates concede the team is not consciously “trying” to antagonize them.

The wording of the first half is damning, however. Allen doesn’t understand (or won’t acknowledge) that it’s not up to him, a white man, to decide what offends Native Americans.

“They’re saying that it’s an honor. They’re not taking our word for it, Native people’s word for it, that we don’t want this,” said Robert Holden, deputy director of the National Congress of American Indians. It is the largest, oldest and most representative organization of Native American tribes.

The team put up postings on its Web site noting that 70 high school teams, including the one at McLoud, use the name Redskins. However, the team neglected to mention that a larger number of schools at various levels have dropped such names.

In 1970, about 500 team names were in the “red slur” category, such as Redskins, Red Men or Red Raiders, according to the Morning Star Institute, an Indian advocacy group. Now the total is less than 100.

The number is about to shrink again. In New York, Cooperstown High School is preparing to drop its Redskins name after students petitioned the Board of Education to make the switch. The Oneida Indian Nation reached out to the school district to support the change.

“From the board’s perspective, and from students’ perspective, it has an offensive connotation to Native peoples,” Superintendent C.J. Hebert said.

Please heed that point, Dan Snyder. Sometimes being politically correct is just plain correct.
 
May 16, 2011
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So just an additional level to this. Is Redskin a disparaging term if nobody uses it that way? I have never heard anyone refer to a native American as a redskin. "Fuck you redskin... you are acting like such a redskin..... I have more scalps then your average redskin.." I mean if a term is so outdated that even racists do not ever use it in a sentence, does it still have any meaning at all?
well nobody uses jigaboo but I doubt anyone would name a team that.
 

Sol..

I am Wayne Brady.
Apr 23, 2007
11,661
0
0
Did you all hear the Braves nearly brought back Chief Noc-A-Homa on their BP cap this year? It got scuttled at the last minute, but it appears in the style guide. I can't believe this even *almost* happened in 2013.


whats wrong with it? It just looks like a very elated Mr. T.

I PITY THE FOOL WHO'S NOT HAVING FUN AT TURNER FIELD!
 

Eidan

Member
May 23, 2012
13,247
2
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They should change the name to the Washington Warriors, problem solved. Redskins is a stupid ass name anyways.

Warriors is a dumb name.

The best solution I've seen has been keeping the name as Redskins, but changing the logo to a potato.
 

BertramCooper

Banned
Sep 3, 2009
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I'm not an Indians fan at all (go Reds) but this is a nice looking lid. Strangely, I think the red-with-blue-C version is hideous.

The C is fine, if uninspired. I honestly wish they'd go back to the C cap logo from the 70s.



The entire Indians visual identity is a total clusterfuck right now. We've got about three different scripts and two primary logos. It's awful.
 

C4Lukins

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2006
14,181
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well nobody uses jigaboo but I doubt anyone would name a team that.

People still use that term. It is down on the list of racist terms but I have heard it used many times. A certain moment in Gangs of New York would have been lost if a ton of people did not know that term.
 

CheesecakeRecipe

Stormy Grey
Mar 27, 2012
11,634
0
0
I can understand the term being offensive, I thought about it kinda often as a kid when I would watch and talk football with the old man. Nowadays I feel like it's too ingrained in my DNA, etched alongside 25 years of growing up in Redskins Nation that it's the team name and changing it would be really strange for me. But a team is a team, no matter what the name they go under. I'll always bleed burgundy and gold with my boys.

IMO the bigger issue is getting rid of Darth Snyder already.
 

see5harp

Member
May 12, 2009
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I don't mind the Wizards name, it's just a terrible logo.

As far as the Skins go, I don't see them changing it unless legally ordered to do so.

The uniforms, colors, logos, and the name is just terrible. Retro Washington Bullets jersey's are so damn cool. There's not a single Wizards jersey, hat, or clothing I'd ever rock.
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
Mar 29, 2007
35,906
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Did you all hear the Braves nearly brought back Chief Noc-A-Homa on their BP cap this year? It got scuttled at the last minute, but it appears in the style guide. I can't believe this even *almost* happened in 2013.

Brave - a warrior, especially among North American Indian tribes.

Atlanta Braves using a logo of a Brave. I don't understand the outcry from this.
 
May 16, 2011
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People still use that term. It is down on the list of racist terms but I have heard it used many times. A certain moment in Gangs of New York would have been lost if a ton of people did not know that term.
well, people probably still say redskin somewhere too.
 

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
Sep 30, 2004
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Did you all hear the Braves nearly brought back Chief Noc-A-Homa on their BP cap this year? It got scuttled at the last minute, but it appears in the style guide. I can't believe this even *almost* happened in 2013.

That's a great logo, though. I'll never understand why anyone would group that alongside the crude caricature that is the Indians' mascot.
 

ChiTownBuffalo

Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Jan 26, 2009
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Chicago
University of Illinois had a prelim vote on bringing back the Chief today. Interesting.

Well, the NCAA has their own view on what happens when schools use "hostile or abusive" mascots.

What tribe is the Chief supposed to represent anyway? He dresses like a Sioux.

I felt bad for Illinois. Not only was Chief Illiniwek a badass logo, but I don't understand how he could possibly be seen as offensive or culturally insensitive.



You can thank the NCAA's misguided militant political correctness campaign for that one.

Ultimately the Native American students on campus asked them to stop. The Sioux asked them for the Chief's battle regalia back (But I think the school probably just bought it back int he day.) I think the tribe who they say the Chief represents asked them to stop as well.
 

WedgeX

Banned
Nov 21, 2004
20,778
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Brave - a warrior, especially among North American Indian tribes.

Atlanta Braves using a logo of a Brave. I don't understand the outcry from this.

A conquered people who were subjected to injustices such as the Trail of Tears get first right of refusal of the conquering people using their names.
 

Synth_floyd

Banned
Jun 12, 2005
6,218
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Calling the team the "Redskins" is totally racist. Imagine if there were a team called the "darkies" or the "slanty eyes." At least the Braves isn't blatantly racist, though I can see how it is rather condescending.
 

Cagey

Banned
Jul 28, 2011
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I can understand the term being offensive, I thought about it kinda often as a kid when I would watch and talk football with the old man. Nowadays I feel like it's too ingrained in my DNA, etched alongside 25 years of growing up in Redskins Nation that it's the team name and changing it would be really strange for me. But a team is a team, no matter what the name they go under. I'll always bleed burgundy and gold with my boys.

IMO the bigger issue is getting rid of Darth Snyder already.

Long live Snyder.
 

notworksafe

Member
Jun 17, 2008
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I understand why Chief Wahoo is being phased out for the Indians, but it's still a bummer to me. I grew up with the Indians and went to so many games in middle and high school. Oh well. :(

Kinda want to get a Chief Wahoo hat before they are all gone.

Part of me will be a bit sad to see him go merely because he's somewhat symbolic of my childhood, but I absolutely understand why people find him offensive and I won't be fighting to keep him around.
Yep, same here.
 
Feb 26, 2011
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The name needs to go. Now.

redskin
n. Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a Native American

It's unbelievable that it hasn't been changed yet.
 

tycoonheart

Member
Mar 17, 2010
6,868
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575
Calling the team the "Redskins" is totally racist. Imagine if there were a team called the "darkies" or the "slanty eyes." At least the Braves isn't blatantly racist, though I can see how it is rather condescending.

And what about the Cleveland Browns?

As a brown guy, I find it very offensive. I hope that changes too.

I love this slippery slope.
 
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