• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

'We believe in generations:' PlayStation argues cross-gen games risk stifling innovation

Rolla

Report me for trolling MS/Xbox threads > 06/27
Jan 26, 2020
546
2,169
525
“As we’ve said many times, with PlayStation 5 it’s a brand new generation, and we believe in generations. So we want to evolve every part of the experience. ”

“In many cases, we can’t take everybody with us from previous consoles into [a next generation experience],” Lempel tells Keighley. “You need new hardware, you need new devices to experience what these developers want you to experience.”


Source:
 
Dec 10, 2018
1,617
3,434
625
This is the right approach but Sony doesn't have 10 million GP subs they need to feed. They would sing a different tune if they had more psnow subs.
If Gamepass is the reason why Phil wants all games or just MS ones to be cross-gen (even though apparently he doesnt care much at all) , why not support the Xbone for the next 7 years? Why stop after 2021 or 2022 ("couple of years")?

What´s the point of adding 1 or 2 extra years, to a console with much lower sales (hardware, software) than the PS4? You also assume that all those 10mill. gamepass subs are on Xbox.

What if majority are on the PC? Then his reasoning for cross-gen support have less meaning, make no sense as they already own the "ngen xbox and old xbox gen".
 
Oct 26, 2018
13,128
17,302
695
“As we’ve said many times, with PlayStation 5 it’s a brand new generation, and we believe in generations. So we want to evolve every part of the experience. ”

“In many cases, we can’t take everybody with us from previous consoles into [a next generation experience],” Lempel tells Keighley. “You need new hardware, you need new devices to experience what these developers want you to experience.”


Source:
So that means no PS5 upgrade file for Ghosts or LoU2. I guess I was wrong thinking they would make that available when PS5 launches.
 

CerealBro1

Member
Jun 10, 2020
276
374
240
I mean, both approaches are equally valid, and it is important to consider the goals of each company. Xbox is trying to grow through services and games, whereas Sony is trying to get people to buy their hardware and hope they buy some games too.

The Xbox approach of "if it can run on Xbox One then great let's do it" compared to the Sony approach of "Make everything only run on PS5" is questionable and both have pros and cons, but most importantly both make sense for where the companies are right now
 

Saaleh

Member
Jul 3, 2020
99
146
210
Sony’s strategy will sell more consoles.

Up to you to decide whether this is the mark of a successful video games console producer.
Sony's approach generates a worldwide hype, generate tons of impressive games, it gives me a reason to buy their console and makes me have a unique feeling of appreciation for sony and playstation.

Whereas every time I see something new from xbox, my heart says... I have a gaming pc so whatever and I continue my day either disgusted or like nothing changed.. on top of that i only see a dry line up of games from their studios and if I like something from them it feels like a multiplatform game.
 
Last edited:

Aion002

Member
Nov 21, 2019
1,572
3,031
435
SP - BR
This is the right approach but Sony doesn't have 10 million GP subs they need to feed. They would sing a different tune if they had more psnow subs.
Becouse they can't or don't want to?

Because MS tried to play Sony and Nintendo game.... And failed.... 3 times.

Now they are trying a new approach, Sony and Nintendo don't need to.
 

CamHostage

Member
Sep 30, 2004
5,815
467
1,530
This is the right approach but Sony doesn't have 10 million GP subs they need to feed. They would sing a different tune if they had more psnow subs.
They wouldn't need to sell me a PS5 is they had 10 million PS Now subs, though. Just sell access of PS5 games to PS4 players. Or PC players. Or maybe, in the future, Android and iOS players. Or hell, PS3 and PlayStation Vita, if Sony still supported those platforms with PS Now. (PS Vita foreva...) It's just a stream of video and controller input, so the only "generation" is in the box that runs the game code, so replace the box in the server farm and everything downstream is "next-gen".


(The PS Now Server Farm, running on custom PS3s in 2014.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-sony-creates-custom-ps3-for-playstation-now )
 
Last edited:

leo-j

Member
Jun 27, 2018
545
700
330
Just like how they believed that first party games must be exclusively to console and not be on PC ? Lol

By the time This will change as usual from sony
getting a game on pC years after it was experienced on the original platform is smart buisness considering emulators would do it down the line anyway and the company makes $0 on the games on pc.
 

A.Romero

Member
Feb 23, 2009
2,841
1,564
1,130
Mexico
www.lavejota.com
This is the right approach but Sony doesn't have 10 million GP subs they need to feed. They would sing a different tune if they had more psnow subs.
They do, however, have 100 million PS4 in the market that would be potential buyers for cross gen games.

I mean, they could do 2 versions of the game like Fifa or Shadow of Mordor and sell to the older gen but their strategy is not to.
 

ProLogY

Neo Member
Jul 3, 2020
31
60
125
It'll be interesting to see what the Miles Morales Spider-Man game looks like.. But I feel fairly confident with the information we have now that it could have launched on PS4 without compromising the PS5 version if Sony wanted it to.

This is about selling consoles for Sony. Microsoft doesn't care as much about the hardware as they do their service, which is why there's more cross play options, got to keep those who don't upgrade to Series X happily subscribed to Game Pass Ultimate.

You can play the Witcher 3 on a switch. Games can scale. The reality here is that the vast majority of PS4 users will NOT upgrade to a PS5 this year. They can't play new Sony games until they drop that money.

Xbox users who wait to upgrade will get the biggest launch title for the Series X on their console as well as well as other upcoming titles. That's a pro-consumer move, I'm surprised that the walled garden approach to gaming that Sony has is so celebrated online.
 
Last edited:

eastwood333

Banned
Nov 3, 2019
1,689
3,152
480
Welp, Halo Infinite (cross gen) will finally be unveiled in about 5 days. What will be the excuse if it ends up looking better than any game shown at the sony event?

Also, nothing at the sony event wowed me. Most of them looked like cross gen games that could easily run on a PS4 with downscaling of effects,loading etc.
 
Last edited:

Men_in_Boxes

Member
May 31, 2020
1,782
3,300
400
Welp, Halo Infinite (cross gen) will finally be unveiled in about 5 days. What will be the excuse if it ends up looking better than any game shown at the sony event?
I have a sneaking suspicion that it will.

As of right now this "We believe in generations" stuff is bogus from Sony. Maybe we'll see some Forbidden West gameplay in August that makes us believe them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ritsumei2020

Gamernyc78

Banned
Jun 11, 2018
5,815
15,316
655
Welp, Halo Infinite (cross gen) will finally be unveiled in about 5 days. What will be the excuse if it ends up looking better than any game shown at the sony event?
Looking better? Graphics first of all are very subjective and second of all Sony first party for gens have been passing the graphical benchmark amongst eachother from killzone, to uncharted, tlou, Ghost of T, etc... They are the masters of pushing hardware/software innovation and graphics continuously when competition are releasing games aligned within the same time frame. One game, tht looks better if you feel so a town does not make 😊 Either way I'm convinced even late current gen games like tlou 2/Ghost of T will look as good or better than the competitions first next Gen games.

Again I'm all for games being created around new hardware and not being restricted by old. Let's not let our fav companies flip flop a message tht not so long ago was universally agreed upon until another company started their pr assault and Changing the tune due to not having fully next gen games ready in time.
 
Last edited:

A.Romero

Member
Feb 23, 2009
2,841
1,564
1,130
Mexico
www.lavejota.com
It'll be interesting to see what the Miles Morales Spider-Man game looks like.. But I feel fairly confident with the information we have now that it could have launched on PS4 without compromising the PS5 version if Sony wanted it to.

This is about selling consoles for Sony. Microsoft doesn't care as much about the hardware as they do their service, which is why there's more cross play options, got to keep those who don't upgrade to Series X happily subscribed to Game Pass Ultimate.

You can play the Witcher 3 on a switch. Games can scale. The reality here is that the vast majority of PS4 users will NOT upgrade to a PS5 this year. They can't play new Sony games until they drop that money.

Xbox users who wait to upgrade will get the biggest launch title for the Series X on their console as well as well as other upcoming titles. That's a pro-consumer move, I'm surprised that the walled garden approach to gaming that Sony has is so celebrated online.
At least from the videos it doesn't seem that Spider-man could run on the PS4. Maybe Pro but not base.

I guess it depends if the short trailer they showed is anything close to actual gameplay or not. Considering Imsomniac doesn't seem to over promise I think that's how the game will look.

Would it be possible to release the game in PS4 with compromises? Of course but why compromise? If anything it would be in Sony/Disney's best interest to tap onto 100 million potential buyers. Not so good for gamers that are eager for Next-gen. Specially people like myself who didn't pick up a Pro.
 
  • Like
Reactions: shubhang

eastwood333

Banned
Nov 3, 2019
1,689
3,152
480
Looking better? Graphics first of all are very subjective and second of all Sony first party for gens have been passing the graphical benchmark amongst eachother from killzone, to uncharted, tlou, Ghost of T, etc... They are the masters of pushing hardware/software innovation and graphics continuously when competition are releasing games aligned within the same time frame. One game, tht looks better if you feel so a town does not make 😊 Either way I'm convinced even late current gen games like tlou 2/Ghost of T will look as good or better than the competitions first next Gen games.
I'll take you on that bet. You're forgetting MS has acquired a bunch of new studios. And the fact most if not all of sony 1st party studios aim for 30fps. So yes, it is subjective when games that are 60fps are being compared to 30fps games

Playgrounds(rpg team is full of ex Rockstar and Rocksteady devs) new Fable, Ninja Theorys Hellblade 2, The Initiatives(full of Sony Santa Monica,Naughty Dog, Rockstar devs) new rumored Perfect Dark, The Coalition new game, Turn 10's new Forza etc all with the power of the most powerful next gen console.
 
Last edited:

mejin

Member
Oct 18, 2012
5,424
5,768
740
Brazil
Xbox users who wait to upgrade will get the biggest launch title for the Series X on their console as well as well as other upcoming titles. That's a pro-consumer move, I'm surprised that the walled garden approach to gaming that Sony has is so celebrated online.
that's MS PR you are buying. I mean you are free to believe, but this is just won't work on anyone with a ps4, especially this year with so many great exclusives to serve as transition to the next gen. People were happy with ps4 and now are interested in ps5. PS4 will still be in the market after ps5, it's not like it will stop to get games and even if big first party won't come to the platform anymore it has enough games that MS can't offer better in the next years with cross gen for xbox one.

It is really easy to understand...what you didn't offer in 6 years you just can't cover in a pair of years. The ship has sailed ages ago. Next gen is arriving.
 

eastwood333

Banned
Nov 3, 2019
1,689
3,152
480
that's MS PR you are buying. I mean you are free to believe, but this is just won't work on anyone with a ps4, especially this year with so many great exclusives to serve as transition to the next gen. People were happy with ps4 and now are interested in ps5. PS4 will still be in the market after ps5, it's not like it will stop to get games and even if big first party won't come to the platform anymore it has enough games that MS can't offer better in the next years with cross gen for xbox one.

It is really easy to understand...what you didn't offer in 6 years you just can't cover in a pair of years. The ship has sailed ages ago. Next gen is arriving.
Nonsense. Most of the games shown at the sony event could have been mistaken for cross gen games. Many of those games could run on PS4 with downscaling of resolution, loading,no ray tracing etc..

Halo Infinite(cross gen) is proof of this if it actually ends up looking better than any of the games shown at the sony event, including 1st party. I have a suspicion that it will.
 
Oct 5, 2013
2,572
138
470
Aside from Ratchet, which seems to be designed as a tech demo for PS5, I'm not convinced they've shown any 'innovation' that must be PS5 exclusive lest is be stifled. The vast majority of games will be doable on current gen with compromises just like the last transition. I'd love to see some PS5 launch day exclusive that shifts paradigms and blows me away, I'm just not convinced it exists. The last time console games really felt like they made a leap along with the hardware was probably PS2 for me. PS3/360 gen really started unifying cross-platform and brought consoles into pseudo-parity with PC (you went from having oddities like COD Big Red One instead of the actual original PC COD to essentially having the same game on both with COD2).

With far more robust back compat, and various GaaS titles that will have next-gen builds at launch, the bar for an impressive launch exclusive is higher than ever.
 

mejin

Member
Oct 18, 2012
5,424
5,768
740
Brazil
Nonsense. Most of the games shown at the sony event could have been mistaken for cross gen games. Many of those games could run on PS4 with downscaling of resolution, loading,no ray tracing etc..

Halo Infinite(cross gen) is proof of this if it actually ends up looking better than any of the games shown at the sony event, including 1st party. I have a suspicion that it will.
I think Spider will do wonders but Horizon 2 will be set a new level on 2021.

Ps5 upgrades of TLoU and Ghost, for example, also will do some real damage.

But my point... there is no feeling of loss since PS4 had a great life cycle.
 

eastwood333

Banned
Nov 3, 2019
1,689
3,152
480
I think Spider will do wonders but Horizon 2 will be set a new level on 2021.

Ps5 upgrades of TLoU and Ghost, for example, also will do some real damage.

But my point... there is no feeling of loss since PS4 had a great life cycle.
Horizon 2 probably will when it comes out a long with Playgrounds new Fable. That's a comparisons i can't wait to see. Both studios highly talented making similar open world rpgs

I disagree from a graphical perspective and from an impact perspective. Both will be old games by the time Halo Infinite launches. Halo Infinite has been in development with the XSX specs in mind for a long time.

And you're kind of changing the goal post now. Its not MS PR. Its simply being more consumer friendly and it disproves what sony has been stating. Most, if not all the games shown at the sony event could have been mistaken for cross gen, or at the least, downscaled to run on PS4
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: HerjansEagleFeeder

SlimySnake

Gold Member
Feb 5, 2013
6,660
13,254
1,040
Nonsense. Most of the games shown at the sony event could have been mistaken for cross gen games. Many of those games could run on PS4 with downscaling of resolution, loading,no ray tracing etc..

Halo Infinite(cross gen) is proof of this if it actually ends up looking better than any of the games shown at the sony event, including 1st party. I have a suspicion that it will.
So you think games built from the ground up on PS5 look cross gen, but a cross gen game that initially started dev on the base xbox one will look better? Do you not see how flawed this logic is?

Especially a game that has to run at 60 fps. By common sense logic, a 30 fps NEXT gen game will look better than a 60 fps next gen game. So how can a last gen 60 fps game look better than a NEXT gen 30 fps game?
 
Last edited: