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We need to talk about game preservation.

IDKFA

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Jan 15, 2017
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Seriously.

I was playing Duke Nukem (anniversary addition on PS4) and I was reminded of a Duke Nukem 3rd person game that was released on the PS1 called Duke Nukem: Time to Kill.

It wasn't the greatest game of all time. It was Duke Nukem traveling through time with a third person view point. It was good, but nothing amazing, but thinking about this game made me realise that the only way to play it for most people is by trying to obtain a physical PS1 disc, then having the console to actually play it on. I then started to think about all the other games released on older hardware that is lost to time.

Surly there is something we can do about this? We don't have the same problem with films, books and music, so why must it be this way with games?

Take the PS1 for example. It has some absolute amazing games that are just lost to memory with no way for modern audiences to play them. Yes the graphics of say, Wild 9 or Alien Resurrection will not hold up by today's standards, but I think publishers are leaving money on the table by not making these games available to purchase on modern consoles as digital downloads.

Why don't publishers do this? I understand there are licensing issues, but surly these can be resolved in the name of game preservation and the money it would make. Tell me that you wouldn't want to download the absolute full PS1 catalogue on your PS5 or the full N64 catalogue on your Switch?

So what is stopping them? Costs? Licensing issues? Effort? I think it's important and we should be pushing more to preserve these games.

Also, apologies if this seems like the ramblings of a mad man. I've had a few Krakens ( rum) and I'm feeling nostalgic.
 

Ian Henry

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OP that's a really good topic. I think it's best that we show some love and respect to games that came before. Considering how people always want next and new thing, it be hard to promote to those types. However, for those interested in gaming history and culture, it's best for them and we need some more gaming historians up in here. We need to treat them with care and dedication.
 
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IDKFA

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OP that's a really good topic. I think it's best that we show some love and respect to games that came before. Considering how people always want next and new thing, it be hard to promote to those types. However, for those interested in gaming history and culture, it's best for them and we need some more gaming historians up in here. We need to treat them with care and dedication.

Gaming history is important and should be preserved.

Alien Resurrection on the PS1 is a game that I mentioned in the OP. Not because it's a fantastic FPS that pushed the PS1 to its limits, but it also has historical importance by being the first console FPS, or in fact the first FPS, to use duel analogue stick movement, which is a control scheme now used for every console FPS.
 

MrFunSocks

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This is why what MS have done and are doing is so important to me, and why I would have bought a series X even without a single new game ever releasing on it. It can play almost every game from the last 7 years better than ever, along with most of the good games from the 7 years before that, along with a handful from the 6 years before that. With retroarch now it can also play all be legally backed up PS1/PS2/etc games too - including duke nukem: time to kill, which I still have the original of and have backed up on my pc. Same with alien resurrection.

Their commitment to releasing literally every first party game on console and pc and having future backwards compatibility is incredible for game preservation. The fact that I can play Black, and original Xbox game and one of my favourites of all time, on my series X in 4K is amazing.
 
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Neff

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So what is stopping them? Costs? Licensing issues? Effort?

All of the above. Turning the rusty wheels of entertainment law is time-consuming and expensive, and most publishers just figure it's not worth it, especially when most folks are going to just go and emulate old games anyway.

If a publisher sees that there is demand for a commercial re-release, and the stars align to make cutting through the web of legal red tape possible, then yes, of course they'll do it. But publishers looking at old catalogues of classic titles and saying 'fuck it, it's not worth it' happens more often than not.

Backwards compatibility is a more ideal solution because it sidesteps a lot of legal issues due to the game not actually requiring re-certification for re-release, but if you want to play anything older than PS4 you'd have to put the question to Jim 'let the past die' Ryan.
 
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01011001

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Dec 4, 2018
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Seriously.

I was playing Duke Nukem (anniversary addition on PS4) and I was reminded of a Duke Nukem 3rd person game that was released on the PS1 called Duke Nukem: Time to Kill.

It wasn't the greatest game of all time. It was Duke Nukem traveling through time with a third person view point. It was good, but nothing amazing, but thinking about this game made me realise that the only way to play it for most people is by trying to obtain a physical PS1 disc, then having the console to actually play it on. I then started to think about all the other games released on older hardware that is lost to time.

Surly there is something we can do about this? We don't have the same problem with films, books and music, so why must it be this way with games?

Take the PS1 for example. It has some absolute amazing games that are just lost to memory with no way for modern audiences to play them. Yes the graphics of say, Wild 9 or Alien Resurrection will not hold up by today's standards, but I think publishers are leaving money on the table by not making these games available to purchase on modern consoles as digital downloads.

Why don't publishers do this? I understand there are licensing issues, but surly these can be resolved in the name of game preservation and the money it would make. Tell me that you wouldn't want to download the absolute full PS1 catalogue on your PS5 or the full N64 catalogue on your Switch?

So what is stopping them? Costs? Licensing issues? Effort? I think it's important and we should be pushing more to preserve these games.

Also, apologies if this seems like the ramblings of a mad man. I've had a few Krakens ( rum) and I'm feeling nostalgic.

my Xbox Series X can play these games perfectly fine thank you very much :) also my beloved PSP Go does it pretty well, especially on the go.

preservation of games is important and thanks to emulator developers and people ripping every imaginable version of every known game if possible also helps. these guys are dedicated as hell, they will look into a hex editor and see if they found a rom of a game that is ever so slightly different and if it is they'll upload it just so we have every imaginable variation of a certain game.

and CD/disk based games in particular are super easy to even legally play these days. ripping them is super easy and emulators with custom bioses are also getting more common so you don't even have to get a legally obtained bios anymore for GC or PS1 games.

get a PS1 game, put it into you PC's disc drive, rip and format it accordingly and play it through the emulation device of your choice
 
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baphomet

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This whole thread is very confusing.

The entire PS1 library is preserved and has been for quite some time.

There is a HUGE amount of music, movies, and literature that actually is lost.
 
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MrFunSocks

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This whole thread is very confusing.

The entire PS1 library is preserved and has been for quite some time.

There is a HUGE amount of music, movies, and literature that actually is lost.
OP is talking about the platform holders and publishers making all the old games like PS1 available digitally, which is different to how they’re playable and preserved now.
 

Tschumi

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Jul 4, 2020
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Do not worry OP. Most games are backed up on the internet. Or will be until corporations take em down.
This.. gog, and a billion rom sites (which i do not even look at), the games are almost all there. Ps Vita homebrew also doing it's part for many older systems...
 
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Tmack

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And btw not all movies/music are preserved and a lot still fall into oblivion.
 

LazyParrot

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If you're worried now, just wait until subscription and streaming services really start to catch on. Eventually, there are going to be games whose files will never leave the servers of the publisher or streaming platform owner. If either of them decide they no longer want them there, then they're gone for good.
 

baphomet

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OP is talking about the platform holders and publishers making all the old games like PS1 available digitally, which is different to how they’re playable and preserved now.


I know what he's talking about, but that will never happen.

He seems to think that that's how it works for music and movies, which it most definitely does not.
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

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I'm sure someday it'll be a felony to have a digital iso or rom downloaded to your computer, even if you ripped it yourself.
Considering people are pushing for dumber laws and punishment without proof I don't doubt it.
 
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Virt McPolygon

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Digital backups will always be available. Even if deemed illegal, there's always gonna be a workaround and a way to avoid prosecution if anything is actually enforced.
 

IDKFA

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I know what he's talking about, but that will never happen.

He seems to think that that's how it works for music and movies, which it most definitely does not.

A majority of films, music and books are available for me to legally purchase as digital downloads. Even some really obscure, international films from French or Japanese cinema.

How many games from the PS1 library (or N64, Saturn, Megadrive etc) are available to purchase and download now? Barely any at all. I know emulation exists, but that's not a viable method for the masses to experience these old classics.
 

HE1NZ

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PS1 library is fully preserved through scene iso packs. The fact that they're not available to buy digitally is not important. If you're one of the few who cares about these games you can do some work finding these and setting up an emulator or console with optical drive emulator. Every console library is preserved except probably Xbox One digital games because that console was never exploited (Forza Horizon 2 DLC is legit lost).
 

Pallas

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May 9, 2018
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That’s a good point OP, luckily a lot of older games are backed up on the internet and you even have emulation consoles like the Polymega, though iirc it requires the game disc/cartridge, but heard they were trying to do some online store, so you could legally purchase them.

Game preservation is important, it’s like preserving movies, or even art.
 

teezzy

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Mar 18, 2020
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People only preserve what theres a market for. This is why piracy is important for all entertainment mediums.
 

mcjmetroid

Member
Feb 11, 2019
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530
Limerick, Ireland
Seriously.

I was playing Duke Nukem (anniversary addition on PS4) and I was reminded of a Duke Nukem 3rd person game that was released on the PS1 called Duke Nukem: Time to Kill.

It wasn't the greatest game of all time. It was Duke Nukem traveling through time with a third person view point. It was good, but nothing amazing, but thinking about this game made me realise that the only way to play it for most people is by trying to obtain a physical PS1 disc, then having the console to actually play it on. I then started to think about all the other games released on older hardware that is lost to time.

Surly there is something we can do about this? We don't have the same problem with films, books and music, so why must it be this way with games?

Take the PS1 for example. It has some absolute amazing games that are just lost to memory with no way for modern audiences to play them. Yes the graphics of say, Wild 9 or Alien Resurrection will not hold up by today's standards, but I think publishers are leaving money on the table by not making these games available to purchase on modern consoles as digital downloads.

Why don't publishers do this? I understand there are licensing issues, but surly these can be resolved in the name of game preservation and the money it would make. Tell me that you wouldn't want to download the absolute full PS1 catalogue on your PS5 or the full N64 catalogue on your Switch?

So what is stopping them? Costs? Licensing issues? Effort? I think it's important and we should be pushing more to preserve these games.

Also, apologies if this seems like the ramblings of a mad man. I've had a few Krakens ( rum) and I'm feeling nostalgic.
And Nintendo have to be the worst for this considering the sheer amount of potential they could have when it comes to the amount of money they could make from s service that has all it's classic games on it.

They should have been first with a streaming service at the very least or even better an online shop where if you bought a classic Nintendo games youd own it forever.
 

IDKFA

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And Nintendo have to be the worst for this considering the sheer amount of potential they could have when it comes to the amount of money they could make from s service that has all it's classic games on it.

They should have been first with a streaming service at the very least or even better an online shop where if you bought a classic Nintendo games youd own it forever.

This.

Nintendo did start to embrace this with the Wii VC, where that had a very large amount of Nintendo's classic library to purchase, but for some reason, I'm guessing costs, it was never transferred to the Switch.
 

mcjmetroid

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This.

Nintendo did start to embrace this with the Wii VC, where that had a very large amount of Nintendo's classic library to purchase, but for some reason, I'm guessing costs, it was never transferred to the Switch.
I don't know about you but I'd be pissed if I spent a large amount of money in the Wii and WiiU VC and weren't able to play my games in the Switch.

A way bigger deal should have been made of that.
 
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alf717

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I don't know about you but I'd be pissed if I spent a large amount of money in the Wii and WiiU VC and weren't able to play my games in the Switch.

A way bigger deal should have been made of that.
I was pissed with how it was handles on the WiiU. I spent quick a bit of cash on those games back on the Wii VC. The WiiU transfer option seemed like an after though. I wanted to play those game on the gamepad buttons and all but was only given a cruddy upgrade option where they wanted more cash out of me. Not to mention WiiU VC was mainly only Nintendo games no more Sega consoles etc until the very end of the WiiU's lifespan when they finally added TG-16 games.

Preservation will exist so long as we continue to love this hobby of ours. I am not an advocate for piracy and would like to pay for retro games so longs as they could be readily available and more accessible on current and furtue platforms. I bought and installed my first ODE (Optical Disc-drive Emulator) the xStation and it is such a fantastic device. Years ago I decided to back up and preserve as many of my cartridge and disc based games as I could. Disc based game were fairly easy to do but the cartridges were more difficult and I wasn't able to find a solution that could handle all my carts. Legal limbo will leave games lost to time forever so my suggestion is to explore currently available options. Flash carts, ODE's and of course affordable titles you can find second hand are the way to go. Waiting for companies to figure these things out isn't gonna happen or will take ages before they "get it".
 

YuLY

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Oct 3, 2020
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Surly there is something we can do about this? We don't have the same problem with films, books and music, so why must it be this way with games?
There is, its called PC gaming as main platform and only playing exclusives on consoles which you can hopefully just emulate later still on PC as the years go by and good emulators are out and hardware that can handle it.

I can play games from 1998 with no problems on PC. Authentification servers are down for older titles? torrent the crack without hesitation, its your right as a customer to gain access to the product you paid for.