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[unpopularblargh]

So there was some talk in the thread about the Quebec mosque shooting about how and why it happened. It's obvious Elliot Rodger, Dylan Roof and all of the others didn't just pop up out of nowhere. Around Trump's surprise win of the election I remember reading a few good think-pieces about how and why more and more white men seem to be joining or aligning themselves with hate-groups based around white male superiority. So I thought I'd post a few here to get a conversation started:

From The Guardian:

That loose network of blogs, forums, subreddits and alternative media publications colloquially known as the “manosphere”. An online subculture centred around hatred, anger and resentment of feminism specifically, and women more broadly. It’s grimly fascinating and now troubling relevant.

In modern parlance, this is part of the phenomenon known as the “alt-right”. More sympathetic commentators portray it as “a backlash to PC culture” and critics call it out as neofascism. Over the past year, it has been strange to see the disturbing internet subculture I’ve followed for so long enter the mainstream.

These people are now part of the political landscape.

On their forums I’ve read long, furious manifestos claiming that women are all sluts who “ride the cock carousel” and sleep with a series of “alpha males” until they reach the end of their sexual prime, at which point they seek out a “beta cuck” to settle down with for financial security. I’ve lurked silently on blogs dedicated to “pick-up artistry” as men argue that uppity, opinionated, feminist women – women like myself – need to be put in their place through “corrective rape”.

One thing I noticed early on is that the community seems to be largely white. And that’s evident because race comes up, a lot. Sometimes, in the form of a kind of racial pseudo-science that advocates use to explain the dynamics of heterosexual relations. The age-old racist argument – that black men are “taking our women” – is made regularly. Racist slurs are chucked around casually. There seems to be a significant overlap with organised white supremacy.

When we fret about young people leaving western countries and going to fight with Isis, it’s common to focus on the role of the internet in their political radicalisation. It’s time we discussed the radicalisation of angry, young white men in a similar way. The manosphere gave us Elliot Rodger. He was a regular on the forum “PUAhate” – populated by bitter men who had tried the techniques advocated by so-called “pick-up artists” to attract women and failed.

Reading through the posting history of individual aliases, it’s possible to chart their progress from vague dissatisfaction, and desire for social status and sexual success, to full-blown adherence to a cohesive ideology of white supremacy and misogyny. Neofascists treat these websites as recruitment grounds. They find angry, frustrated young men and groom them in their own image. Yet there’s no Prevent equivalent to try to stamp this out.

SPLC:

Inside a student center ballroom, Spencer addressed some 400 students who had turned out for the event, some in support and some in protest. After a meandering introduction about “elective identities” and “rooted identities” — an idea written extensively about by the philosophers of Nazi Germany — Spencer quickly moved on to the crux of his speech: how white people’s history of racist domination justifies his white nationalism.

“America, at the end of the day, belongs to white men,” Spencer said. “Our bones are in the ground. We own it. At the end of the day America can’t exist without us. We defined it. This country does belong to White people, culturally, politically, socially, everything.”

When a student pointed out that the wealth of America was bound up in the forced labor and oppression of slaves, whose bones are also buried here, Spencer lamely countered that the actual labor force was irrelevant. Somehow, those directing the slave labor that built our country’s modern infrastructure deserved the credit.

“The architect is what matters, it’s the genius behind something, its not just whoever happened to do the labor,” Spencer said.

“People I don’t really have respect for, to be honest, are the kind of gutter punks that spend their life protesting other people,” Spencer said. “That their life is so empty, so meaningless, that they have to fill up that void with hatred of people that actually care about their identity. And I’m referring to people like you!”

During the question-and-answer session, several students defended Spencer's First Amendment rights, saying they had listened to the entirety of the speech without interrupting, despite disagreeing with his politics. One young woman asked how white people could be considered the best when they have been overtaken economically by Asian and Latino populations. Spencer responded by repeatedly saying, “We are not literally being replaced by them," before conceding that white people are failing to prove themselves supreme.

“This is not a wonderful state for the white race at the moment,” Spencer said.

When the student asked for clarification, Spencer merely insisted that it was a “non-sequitor” and refused to answer further.

The Independent:

“I couldn’t understand why people were surprised by the outcome,” Ms Mohutsiwa told the Huffington Post. “It seemed inconceivable to people that young, college-educated men could be motivated to vote for Trump.”

Ms Mohutsiwa, who has followed so-called “alt-right” groups on Reddit over the years, says that many participants in these groups were instructed to keep their Trump support private.

“Many young men are told to keep their anti-[people of colour], sexist views from their ‘libtard’ family and friends,” she tweeted, “Hence this surprise from the mainstream. …

“When we talk about the online radicalisation, we always talk about Muslims. But the radicalisation of white men online is at astronomical levels.”

Indeed, a recent study conducted by researchers at George Washington University’s Programme on Extremism, found that the number of self-identified white nationalists and Nazi-sympathisers on Twitter multiplied at astronomical rate – and more than 600 per cent than Isis sympathisers.

While the social media platform focused its energy to crackdown on Islamist extremism, white supremacists have managed to maintain a strong foothold within the platform.

Donald Trump emerged as a prominent subject among white nationalists not just on Twitter, but also within online message board communities like Reddit and 4Chan. The subbreddit “The_Donald” includes commentary that boasts anti-Semitism and overt racism.

“Hitler was a socialist who railed against the 1 per cent and the banks,” one user wrote, for example. “The banks just happened to be owned by Jews at the time. It is insane that we have to get into power to correct the history books on something like that.”

Ms Mohutsiwa added that her researched showed that many of the men in these forums entered looking for tips on how to meet women.

“Young men came to these online groups for tips on picking up girls and came out believe that it was up to them to save Western civilisation,” she wrote. “By the end, many were using every out of college-level ‘logic’ to argue that liberals aimed for the destruction of [it].

“These college-educated young men were then ripe enough to be sold [the] idea that Trump represented a return to Men Being Real Men.”

Esquire collected the full twitter thread by Mohutsiwa here. Also Vox had a really good deep dive into the Alt-Right and how it intersects with GamerGaters, PUA culture and white supremacy that I would highly recommend everyone check out. I've posted a few excerpts below:

“They weren't fighting for the right to look at boobs in videogames any more, but fighting against ‘white genocide.’ Suddenly the weirdly inflated, often melodramatic rhetoric of Gamergate made more sense.”

Gamergate-inspired violence also presaged the wave of hate crimes that have been reported since the election. Examples from the past two years include the threat of a mass shooting at a major public university because the university hosted Gamergate enemy Anita Sarkeesian; the many pro-rape statements made on PUA hubs and social media accounts by prominent pickup artists like the notorious internet troll Roosh V, who bragged about committing rape; and finally, the 2014 mass stabbing and shooting of six UC Santa Barbara students by Elliot Rodger, a man who fortified his misogyny and sense of alienation via the incel communities he frequented online.

The ease with which the alt-right channels male insecurity around women’s rights into an ideology of white supremacy ultimately illustrates that the paths by which men wander into the alt-right movement are deceptive. While many of the movement’s male-centered online communities may seem to offer something of value to the men who join them, the alt-right movement has never been about helping men cope with low self-esteem, relationship problems, or their personal pain and insecurity. In fact, it’s never particularly concerned itself with building up men as individuals at all. Instead, it’s about maintaining a sense of power at all costs over an ever-expanding list of designated targets.

 

[spineduke]

This is fascinating, thanks for sharing - and likening it to other forms of radicalization makes a lot of sense.

 

[StrategyFan]

defeating violent white supremacists should be part of the war on terror

 

[Garrett Hawke]

people should be terrified of this instead of the nebulous "refugee terrorist" or whatever.

these people are home grown, radicalized in ways that are incredibly difficult to track and keep tabs on because it's not treated the same as looking up jihadist materials.

 

[International Iron Man]

I don't expect white people, either liberals or conservatives, to lift a finger to do a thing about this. There's one thing white people dont do, and thats see themselves as a cohesive group. Everyone is a lone shooter or solitary bad egg with white skin, but every brown or black person that commits a crime is indicative of a deeper issue within their respective culture.

And it's how you'll end up with a second civil war.

 

[RinsFury]

These people need to be placed on a list and tracked. Enough is enough.

 

[Ac30]

My friend got suckered into this shit. He's a minority and a white supremacist, never thought I'd see the day. Classic example, brags incessantly about his sexual conquests and how women should stop complaining about "Republcians taking their rights and btw rape culture isn't real".

He also gives Milo as an example of "See the gays love us too"

I've known him long enough to know all of this is coming from his own insecurities from high school where he was bullied incessantly. Always the same. Another reason bullying shouldn't be ignored.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I don't expect white people, either liberals or conservatives, to lift a finger to do a thing about this. There's one thing white people dont do, and thats see themselves as a cohesive group. Everyone is a lone shooter or solitary bad egg with white skin, but every brown or black person that commits a crime is indicative of a deeper issue within their respective culture.

And it's how you'll end up with a second civil war.

I'm still on the fence about your conclusion, but I do agree with everything that came before it. I was actually going to say something similar.

 

[RinsFury]

How many need to die before the FBI starts taking hate-grooming forums on sites such as reddit and voat seriously? There needs to be a concerted effort to shut these places down.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I don't expect white people, either liberals or conservatives, to lift a finger to do a thing about this. There's one thing white people dont do, and thats see themselves as a cohesive group. Everyone is a lone shooter or solitary bad egg with white skin, but every brown or black person that commits a crime is indicative of a deeper issue within their respective culture.

Pretty much

And it's how you'll end up with a second civil war.

Not so much

 

[CyclopsRock]

I don't expect white people, either liberals or conservatives, to lift a finger to do a thing about this. There's one thing white people dont do, and thats see themselves as a cohesive group. Everyone is a lone shooter or solitary bad egg with white skin, but every brown or black person that commits a crime is indicative of a deeper issue within their respective culture.

And it's how you'll end up with a second civil war.

Genuine question: what *do* you want want people to do, assuming that you don't also think that every brow or black person that commits a crime is indicative of a deeper issue within their respective culture.

 

[International Iron Man]

I'm still on the fence about your conclusion, but I do agree with everything that came before it. I was actually going to say something similar.

Not sure how. The ideology will spread unchecked, eventually some of them will get into power (like say, the presidents chief adviser), and shit will go sideways real fast.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

There's going to have to be more concentrated efforts from non-white people to keep these things in the public consciousness and debunk this "lone wolf" idea

 

[FZZ]

Too late to talk about it

We need to take action

Now

 

[International Iron Man]

Genuine question: what *do* you want want people to do, assuming that you don't also think that every brow or black person that commits a crime is indicative of a deeper issue within their respective culture.

Same thing that apparently happens with every other race: places on a list, surveilled heavily, etc etc. In fact, if they did this, thy would probably be way too busy investigating police departments to bother brown and black people, considering Nazis have been invading the police for 25 years now.

There's going to have to be more concentrated efforts from non-white people to keep these things in the public consciousness and debunk this "lone wolf" idea

Don't know why you think it's the duty of PoC to help solve a white culture issue that literally no one else had a hand in but white people, but no.

White people for once have to learn to clean up their own shit.

 

[psychowave]

For years I thought people weren't taking 4chan and the like seriously enough, and look where we are now.

 

[teruterubozu]

All these articles about radicalization seem to point out the sexual frustration of these men.
There's seems to be some kind of testosterone-radicalization link.

 

[orientalNoodle]

Spencer should be on the FBI watch list

 

[Coffee Dog]

All these articles about radicalization seem to point out the sexual frustration of these men.
There's seems to be some kind of testosterone link.

It's a combination of the patriarchy and expectations set by the media, but a lot of it comes down to "my sex life isn't what I want it to be, let me make it everyone else's fault".

 

[unpopularblargh]

Genuine question: what *do* you want want people to do, assuming that you don't also think that every brow or black person that commits a crime is indicative of a deeper issue within their respective culture.

Confront them Talk to them. Debate them. Acknowledge they exist. That it's not just a lone shooter.

I have a distant friend in Toronto who's recently gone deep into the alt-right bandwagon. All of my other friends knew for months and never talked to him about it. They still don't. I'm the only one who has and I live 500km away. Their excuse is "it makes things awkward". "he's just venting", "it's all jokes man", "stop being such a SJW". And now his wife, who's a visible minority and was a bleeding liberal is now harping on Facebook about the SJWs ruining everything.

In comparison if anyone in my family tried to express any extremist Muslim thoughts, most everyone in my family would confront them. We wouldn't brush it off as them just having a bad day. We take this very seriously. I take this very seriously.

 

[XenodudeX]

All these articles about radicalization seem to point out the sexual frustration of these men.
There's seems to be some kind of testosterone-radicalization link.

Society tells that them white men are top dogs socially and economically across the world. That makes them believe that they're entitled to any women they choose.

 

[Hierophant]

i and (I hope) most sane people got off 4chan when it turned out pol was actually infesting every single board

it got to the point where that trump shit was like an infestation

 

[RinsFury]

Confront them Talk to them. Debate them. Acknowledge they exist. That it's not just a lone shooter.

I have a distant friend in Toronto who's recently gone deep into the alt-right bandwagon. All of my other friends knew for months and never talked to him about it. They still don't. I'm the only one who has and I live 500km away. Their excuse is "it makes things awkward". "he's just venting", "it's all jokes man", "stop being such a SJW".

In comparison if anyone in my family tried to express any extremist Muslim thoughts, most everyone in my family would confront them. We wouldn't brush it off as them just having a bad day.

Hmm. You may want to consider reporting him to the authorities just in case. I know I would.

 

[ratcliffja]

All these articles about radicalization seem to point out the sexual frustration of these men.
There's seems to be some kind of testosterone-radicalization link.

Computers and the internet are certainly a double edged sword. They've led to individual isolation, twisted social interactions, and hampered the healthy exertion of energy.

 

[Darryl M R]

It also seems like there is an effort to victimize these radical white males by saying that they are fueled by insecurities or have mental illnesses.

I mean just in this thread, I shared a vocal clip of a guy that is building an alt-right group at UW and he was convicted of burning a Black church on fire when he was younger. He of course mentioned his mental illness during that time but somehow he doesn't discuss whether or not he still suffered from any mental illness.

Society tells that them white men are top dogs socially and economically across the world. That makes them believe that they're entitled to any women they choose.

And when they don't get that hot chick or get into a great school or get that high paying job there world is shattered. No one told them to not put all of their eggs in one basket and that they are not entitled to anything they want.

 

[Jiraiza]

For years I thought people weren't taking 4chan and the like seriously enough, and look where we are now.

It certainly does bother me that /b/ and /pol/ shit is infesting the boards I frequent. Can't be a weeb in peace without these assholes chipping in.

 

[MrHoot]

Cock carousel sounds like a shitty disney attraction to be honest

 

[psychowave]

It's a combination of the patriarchy and expectations set by the media, but a lot of it comes down to "my sex life isn't what I want it to be, let me make it everyone else's fault".

Porn is a huge contributor to this as well. Porn is simultaneously more violent and more accessible than it has ever been before, to the point where 12 year old kids can easily see women get abused on camera.

It certainly does bother me that /b/ and /pol/ shit is infesting the boards I frequent. Can't be a weeb in peace without these assholes chipping in.

I hear ya. I like the idea of 4chan because it has so many different boards covering a wide variety of topics and they're all active (from what I've seen, anyway), but it's such a damn cesspool.

 

[Shaanyboi]

All these articles about radicalization seem to point out the sexual frustration of these men.
There's seems to be some kind of testosterone-radicalization link.

We constantly reinforce imagery and ideology that expresses that men (especially white men) are fucking owed whatever they want - including sex.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Was literally just thinking about this today.

Why are white supremacist breeding grounds treated in the same way neogaf is, instead of the same way other radicalisation centres are?

 

[fierrotlepou]

These issues need WAY more attention, especially in these times.

 

[International Iron Man]

It also seems like there is an effort to victimize these radical white males by saying that they are fueled by insecurities or have mental illnesses.

I mean just in this thread, I shared a vocal clip of a guy that is building an alt-right group at UW and he was convicted of burning a Black church on fire when he was younger. He of course mentioned his mental illness during that time but somehow he doesn't discuss whether or not he still suffered from any mental illness.

Yep, and that shit has to stop. White men are more guilty when they commit crimes than literally any other group could be living under white supremacy, because everyone else has to deal with negative effects of white supremacy on their lives socially and economically, yet every effort is made to try to absolve them of responsibility of whatever they do.

It's a historical pastime. From presidents and slaves, to Christopher Colombus, to FDR and racism. It's always excuses and reasons why their fuck ups have to be overlooked.

 

[Infinite]

We should stop attack white people with threatening language like white privilege and white fragility and maybe this problem will go away

 

[Xater]

Was literally just thinking about this today.

Why are white supremacist breeding grounds treated in the same way neogaf is, instead of the same way other radicalisation centres are?

They shouldn't be. Just today you got a great example out of Canada on why they shouldn't be.

 

[EdibleKnife]

We should stop attack white people with threatening language like white privilege and white fragility and maybe this problem will go away

Lol

 

[godhandiscen]

Perhaps the root of all these issues is that these kids can't get laid. They need to feel appreciated, and they haven't been taught how to accomplish that. So they grow with resentment against society.

 

[onadesertedisland]

Hyper-sexualized, under-sexed, adolescent males have created a narrative to cope with their romantic failings. They blame everyone else for their failures, and turned to disgusting cultures like red pill, hook up artist, the donald, 4chan etc. for misery in company. They're frightening because they hold extreme viewpoints, and usually one of those involves weapons.

 

[daffy]

Pretty much. These guys take any slight of rejection very seriously. It starts with them getting gently rejected at the bus stop and ends with a full on violent assault that seems random and uninitiated, but in actually is a result of years and years of studying how to conquer the world through unreliable, uncaring sources and being told, "nah, not really but thanks for playing".

mediocre white men are lashing back and its gonna take the whole neighborhood to stop them. Unfortunately, it starts at home and their fellow white friends aren't doing shit to stop it despite the typical, obvious signs.

 

[Metalingus5150]

Perhaps the root of all these issues is that these kids can't get laid. They need to feel appreciated, and they haven't been taught how to accomplish that. So they grow with resentment against society.

You're right, toxic masculinity is a very serious problem and needs to be tackled

 

[International Iron Man]

Perhaps the root of all these issues is that these kids can't get laid. They need to feel appreciated, and they haven't been taught how to accomplish that. So they grow with resentment against society.

The only solution to that itheory as you have written it nvolves even more kowtowing to white men, so clearly that's a shit solution and probably a bad solution to hang your hat on.

The problem is toxic masculinity + whiteness.

 

[captive]

scary. Not sure how you combat this in a society that allows freedom of speech.

I was just thinking yesterday, King of the Hill did an episode where Bobby was encouraged to go online and do research on his heritage or something like that. He and Joseph ended up stumbling upon a white supremacy site. And you can guess how it goes from there.

 

[onadesertedisland]

You're right, toxic masculinity is a very serious problem and needs to be tackled

I think the media is also to blame. Males that have trouble getting sex are seen as failures. Sex is great and all, but these poor souls are singularly focused on them not getting it and it being other people's fault.

 

[Aaronology]

I don't expect white people, either liberals or conservatives, to lift a finger to do a thing about this.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

http://variety.com/2016/digital/opinion/election-2016-blame-facebook-twitter-reddit-1201913946/

“When we talk about online radicalization, we always talk about Muslims. But the radicalization of white men online is at astronomical levels,” explained writer Siyanda Mohutsiwa in a remarkable series of tweets Wednesday morning. “These online groups found young white men at their most vulnerable & convinced them liberals were colluding to destroy white Western manhood.”

 

[IggyChooChoo]

Confession: sometimes I find some anti-Semitic alt-right monsters and just relentlessly body-shame Trump to them. It is fun because they're purely on defense now, and the lolz don't come from defense; while I can just ignore whatever they want to talk about and steer things back to Trump being physically gross/psychologically weak/sexually submissive to Putin, etc. I'm not proud of this behavior, but it does seem to be the only thing that makes them slink off with their tails between their legs. And demoralizing alt-right Nazis is a good thing, right?

 

[Atomski]

I always thought rascism and other hatred caused by ignorance would fade out with the older generations. Seeing some of this stuff recently has really pushed home that I was dead wrong.

Scary times..

 

[NobleXenon]

We should stop attack white people with threatening language like white privilege and white fragility and maybe this problem will go away

lol

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Never forget how Internet-radicalized white supremacist Anders Behring Breivik shot to death 69 people at the summer camp of the Norwegian Social Democratic Party's Youth League plus killed 8 people with a bomb in central Oslo in 2011

 

[daffy]

I think the media is also to blame. Males that have trouble getting sex are seen as failures. Sex is great and all, but these poor souls are singularly focused on them not getting it and it being other people's fault.

We need to increase the proliferation of male sex toys and the like, oils, body molds & massage gels etc. The prices need to come down perhaps abit more for these men and eventually they'll learn how to channel their sexual energies in more constructive, pleasurable ways than grabbing butts on the L train. imo

 

[ugaboga232]

From a neuroscience standpoint, the hypothalamus (which is implicated in many basic control functions including sexual aggression, aggression, and sexual pleasure) is not the same between men and women. In men, the portion that controls sexual behavior is also implicated in aggression and violence which is not the case in females. This could explain why sexually frustrated men ages 20-40 seem to be the prime background for terrorists and most violent crime in the world.

If you are curious, check out Dayu Lin and David Anderson and their labs as they work on this stuff.

This does not leave out the role of environmental pressures/cues on radicalization.