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Western RPGs are casual as hell.
- Thread starter GayForMaster
- Start date
makingmusic476
Member
Meanwhile, in Demon's Souls...
Which is why %chance of opening a lock or lock picking minigames are bad design. Your lockpicking skill is too low? Too bad, can't open it.
KillerTravis
Banned
Xenoblade let's you save anywhere. I think it's a really useful mechanic.
The Living Tribunal
Member
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Those features also largely eliminate challenge and punishment for failure. "Oh, I died, but I saved 30 seconds ago!"
I'll abuse the hell out of the feature if it's there, but I prefer having only suspend saves anywhere and hard saves at specific locations. I'm probably just backwards and stuck in the 80s/90s though.
I think he's saying that he's annoyed at games that have auto-save/save-anywhere because playing so many of them has caused him to develop bad habits, as there's not much reason to be cautious or think ahead in auto-save based games. Now he's run into a situation where those bad habits have cost him a lot of progress.
There's a logic to it, even if it seems to have been expressed in as whiny a way as possible.
Messofanego
Banned
This is going to again blow up into 50 pages, isn't it? Even when the OP doesn't deserve it.
EdibleExplosives
Member
Uhh, didn't the first Mass Effect not have an autosave feature? I remember losing over an hour of gameplay because I forgot to save one time.
partyphone
Banned
well it's on the Wii the most casual of casual platforms.
I think it's off by default.
It had auto-saves, but there were a few select parts of the game where the auto-save checkpoints are hilariously far apart and you can easily lose an hour or two of play if it's your first time through.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
what have you done
he is coming
(Im now dedicated to make Derrick's entrances)
Human Revolution is not a particularly hardcore game (and I say that as a huge fan)
Everybody knows that Dwarf Fortress is as hardcore as the West ever got.
And a certain game by the name of Dragon Quest 2 is harder than that.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Someone score that man some pre-2005 WRPGs, quick!
joseph1594
Member
You know, Bethesda and Bioware are hardly the only companies that design WRPGs... Besides, save systems do not necessarily have an impact on the difficulty. Save points in JRPGs don't make the game harder, they just increase the amount of time you spend doing stuff over. Not to mention save points are pretty liberal in most JRPGs nowadays and are more designed to warn you of an incoming boss and show how far you are in a dungeon. As people have already mentioned above, they also are there to prevent you from getting yourself in a situation you cannot get out of and force you to restart the whole.
What baffles me most about the OP is it seems he gets annoyed when games don't have save anywhere or checkpoint systems. It seems odd to say "Oh! I wouldn't hate this kind of game design if those pesky casual games didn't train me on this!" It is all right to admit that you find save anywhere systems or checkpoints convenient. Besides, a game's save system does not have that big of an impact of the difficulty. It is not like it magically makes it where you do not have to plan your strategies, automatically get better gear, obtain higher levels, etc.
By the way, people really need to stop acting like Bethesda and Bioware are the only companies that makes WRPGs.
What baffles me most about the OP is it seems he gets annoyed when games don't have save anywhere or checkpoint systems. It seems odd to say "Oh! I wouldn't hate this kind of game design if those pesky casual games didn't train me on this!" It is all right to admit that you find save anywhere systems or checkpoints convenient. Besides, a game's save system does not have that big of an impact of the difficulty. It is not like it magically makes it where you do not have to plan your strategies, automatically get better gear, obtain higher levels, etc.
By the way, people really need to stop acting like Bethesda and Bioware are the only companies that makes WRPGs.
Technosteve
Banned
FTL casual as fuck
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Anybody who thinks that Western RPGs aren't more casual needs to wake up and smell the metaphorical roses. I would recommend this video for more insight
http://youtu.be/oyA8odjCzZ4?t=1m17s
http://youtu.be/oyA8odjCzZ4?t=1m17s
i got this casual game by trading an item in the casual shooter tf2 which i got by using a casual computer, macbook pro, to play it.
hemtae
Member
DQ2 wasn't that hard IMO. Just grind-y.
What? The ability to turn back time an unlimited number times until you get the perfect desired result, doesn't have an impact on the difficulty?
I feel that JRPG are way more casual. Most of the Final Fantasy games is the same thing every single round. Attack with the Warrior, Attack with the Thieft and hope to prop the double attack, heal with the priest and do Fire/Ice/Lightning attack depending on the weakness with the Wizard.
No difference. Final Fantasy IV is probably the worst of the bunch where you cannot even choose skills, classes or anything. You just press A until the game is over, and you have to pay attention only with bosses.
No difference. Final Fantasy IV is probably the worst of the bunch where you cannot even choose skills, classes or anything. You just press A until the game is over, and you have to pay attention only with bosses.
flintstryker
Banned
Exiting the cave in DQ2 always make me wonder if the Devs collectively got pissed off about something at that point in the development, I don't believe I have ever seen a bigger jump ion difficulty in a game before.
Basileus777
Member
Not having to waste my time repeating content does not make something casual.
zerokoolpsx
Member
Permadeath sucks.
OP should do some tri-attacks. I have trouble understanding what he's saying. Save more often?
I don't think OP did a good job conveying a convincing argument but I kind of see where someone would make the statement that western rpgs are casual.
Skyrim was easy as hell even on the hardest "difficulties", same with Fallout3, New Vegas (what I played of it) and many many other rpgs this gen.
I hate to bring it up because it's brought up in almost every thread imaginable (and I for one don't think it's the answer to all of gamingdoms questions) but Demon/Dark Souls did right by the RPG western or not.
Skyrim was easy as hell even on the hardest "difficulties", same with Fallout3, New Vegas (what I played of it) and many many other rpgs this gen.
I hate to bring it up because it's brought up in almost every thread imaginable (and I for one don't think it's the answer to all of gamingdoms questions) but Demon/Dark Souls did right by the RPG western or not.
Trent Strong
Banned
Note to self: never play Resonance of Fate.
Witcher 2 is probably my favorite this "gen" but it's a joke if you're looking for a challenge. Dark Souls has the best mechanics I've seen in a arpg.
Knights of the Chalice or gtfo!
At the risk of being unpopular, all games should have autosaving and save-anywhere options IMO. Making me replay more than a minute of gameplay because I had the nerve to go and do something else before the game said I could isn't challenge, it's just time-wasting.
As a hangover from the days before PCs and home consoles, it's almost as dumb as the lives system. When I play pool with a friend, the table doesn't reset if I have to duck off to the shops. When I play tennis, my score doesn't reset if I serve one too many double-faults. I don't have to start watching a movie from the beginning if I'm tired and want to sleep instead.
As a hangover from the days before PCs and home consoles, it's almost as dumb as the lives system. When I play pool with a friend, the table doesn't reset if I have to duck off to the shops. When I play tennis, my score doesn't reset if I serve one too many double-faults. I don't have to start watching a movie from the beginning if I'm tired and want to sleep instead.
Rodney McKay
Member
Has no effect on difficulty for me, but it has a MASSIVE effect on the amount of frustration a game causes.
Unless a game is a Rouge-like, odds are it has some kind of a save/checkpoint system that lets you infinitely turn back time and redo a section over and over and over again.
Whether a game forces me to go back an hour or it lets me manually save 30 seconds previously, it makes the game no more or less difficult. All it does it make it more or less frustrating.
Sentenza
Member
ToEE in Ironman.
joseph1594
Member
I said "not necessarily". Also, save points are also about turning back time an unlimited number of times until you get the perfect desired result, it just takes more time, which does not equal difficulty. That is kinda the point of difficulty and dying is to do go through something until you do it right.
The Souls series and games with permadeath are really the only notable exceptions to this rule that I can think of.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
The elephant in the room here in this very goofy thread is few RPGs PERIOD these days are eat you 'n shit you out hard as fuck any more. Willing to dick you over with RNG. Willing to force you to master difficult, complex battle and character-building systems. Willing to make you WORK for your XP/gold/materials/etc. Willing to throw roadblock boss fight after roadblock boss fight into your path. Willing to make you specialize with purpose. Willing to make you hunt for the right macguffin, the right dialogue choice, the right path.
"I am blind, I see no colors; therefore, colors do not exist."
Quicksave only. Deletes upon loading. Boom, ya done.
"I am blind, I see no colors; therefore, colors do not exist."
Quicksave only. Deletes upon loading. Boom, ya done.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
The original Crash Bandicoot had a non-casual saving system.
HolyBaikal
Banned
What's sad is that this mentality seems to be shared by most jRPG and wRPG fans alike.
I didn't really enjoy the game part of it as it was basically typical turn based boring find the elemental weakness and spam the spell jrpg stuff, but I enjoyed the light hearted interactions with the characters and the stories outside of the main plot.
dragonfart28
Banned
Gay for master?
It makes that particular encounter easier with each reload, as they provide you with foresight and make the encounter deterministic.
Simple checkpoints are no better than load anywhere mechanics. Both distort encounters, while checkpoints make it more of a nuisance.
My avatar is probably a little misleading; I'm not a fanatical Crash fan, I just really like his goofy 90's polygonal style. That said, if they'd given me an option for infinite lives system, I'd have been all over it. Those games did tend to have a decent amount of mid-level checkpoints though, which was much appreciated.
That actually sounds kinda horrifying. I remember an instance in the original Max Payne where I had the misfortune of hitting the quicksave key a split-second before an unseen enemy blew me full of holes with a shotgun. I spent about 10 minutes repeatedly reloading and trying to escape the blast while my buddy nearly cried with laughter.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
AuthenticM
Member
Oh lol. Thank you based TC.
cj_iwakura
Member
The genre is still popular in Japan, so only Japan, unless you count Legend of Grimrock(which is more of an action RPG if you ask me, but a damn good one).
HolyBaikal
Banned
Well you'd better be!
I'll have you know those are 2/10 unplayable. What are designers thinking to not include this essential content?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
lmao DEHR being considered hardcore. Guys...
Eh, both sides are terrible. You got bland McHardAss Drzzt and you got lolis. Good god.
Eh, both sides are terrible. You got bland McHardAss Drzzt and you got lolis. Good god.
Oh, my mistake. I forgot to mention they're ten thousand year old dragons that choose to be a flat chested little girl.