Shouta said:Persona 2's story is nice overall but the scripts (both in English and Japanese) are a bit wonky. It's a bit confusing at times and the characters are a bit flat despite having some pretty memorable quirks and designs. The scenario is more interesting than Persona 3 but P3 is a lot more coherent and poignant to its characters.
CountZeroInt said:Ever since I started reading lots of fantasy and sci fi books (yes books, not games...) I can't get into JRPG games on a story level anymore. They are still fun for gameplay, but the stories...ugh. I've noticed other folks go through this progression as well when they age/get marriedOne thing liking JRPGs implies is that you enjoy the atmosphere, environments, and uniqueness, which is cool, but I have a hard time taking people seriously that think that Final Fantasy Tactics can somehow compare with fantasy novels like Tolkein or George R R Martin, or Poul Anderson, or Guy Gavriel Kay on a STORY level.PC games FTW
ethelred said:Tolkien was a really shitty writer, though. Why exactly would we be wanting video game storytelling dragged down to that level?
Oh, and people complain about RPG stories/worlds being cliched? These guys don't have a thing on Tolkien's filching off Beowulf, Das Nibelungenlied, Kalevala, and a slew of other pieces of folklore.
Avalon said:You sure about that?
Persona 2 has a fantastic cast. There is a lot to each character and with all the little conversations you can have with them across all the different city location (I spent hours doing this) it gives them a lot of life, more then most RPGs. Not to mention how fresh it is to have an adult cast who actually talk about real things.
EDIT: Man, I can't believe you said that. So much detail is given to each character. Did you know Ulala has trouble walking sometime because of her bust size? It's little details like that made the characters so wonderful. Best cast ever in my opinion.
ethelred said:Tolkien was a really shitty writer, though. Why exactly would we be wanting video game storytelling dragged down to that level?
Oh, and people complain about RPG stories/worlds being cliched? These guys don't have a thing on Tolkien's filching off Beowulf, Das Nibelungenlied, Kalevala, and a slew of other pieces of folklore.
pancakesandsex said:Shouta, we need to get him to play DESTINY
I just got to the awakening of dycroft, this game is everything i want it to be and more.
Shouta said:Of course, this is partially due to the writing. There's not as much "depth" of writing for the characters in Persona 2 IMO. There are story events that do a bit of character development but a lot of the other dialogue doesn't do much beyond reveal relatively interesting quirks to the characters.
Avalon said:I never looked at it that way. I suppose, in regards to the actual plot their personalities don't mean a thing. You never see them break away from archaic roles during story events and if you don't take into consideration what is learned from information outside of the main story, they might even seem a little cliche.
But that's the thing, it's everything (well, at least a good portion) outside of the linear story events that gives them life. You learn so much information about each characters by just talking around and talking to them at the varies city location. That's probably were a good portion of those 100 hours on my first playthrough came from. Sure, according to the plot it might not matter that Katsuya is unfortunately allergic to cats when he loves them or that Ulala knows the Flamenco dance, but it was knowing all those little about details that really made them seem like actual people.
EDIT: It was also all the minor characters which had such memorable personalties like the Ninja girl at Peace Diners and that pervert at the Tanning place. Man, such a great game.
Shouta said:Details outside of the main story are pretty fine and dandy. I, however, don't think it makes up for not seeing the character interact, respond, and view situations that occur to them. That's what makes a character feel like a real person.
So, I gather you haven't read a lot of good contemporary fantasy. Tolkien was nice for his time I guess, and I loved LoTR when I was 12, but it doesn't compare in detail and especially "reality" to Steven Erikson's "Malazan Book of the Fallen", for example. In fact, I'd argue Deadhouse Gates alone is superior in most aspects to LoTR. (I wanted to avoid the generic George RR Martin mention - also, I slightly prefer Erikson after their respective most recent efforts )Gaijin To Ronin said:What makes Tolkien so remarkable is not the "story", but the writing and how he crafted a world and its history. There is no fantasy universe more detailed, rich and "real" than the Middle Earth.
Durante said:So, I gather you haven't read a lot of good contemporary fantasy. Tolkien was nice for his time I guess, and I loved LoTR when I was 12, but it doesn't compare in detail and especially "reality" to Steven Erikson's "Malazan Book of the Fallen", for example. In fact, I'd argue Deadhouse Gates alone is superior in most aspects to LoTR. (I wanted to avoid the generic George RR Martin mention - also, I slightly prefer Erikson after their respective most recent efforts )
Also, someone said earlier that it's hard to get into JRPG stories when I read a lot of fantasy/SF. I'd wager I've read at least as much of both as most on this board, and I don't experience that. Sure, it gets harder to take the "strife" in many of the games seriously, but the stories - while mostly simplistic - can still be very enjoyable.
It does? You must have played some awfully good RPG modules then! Seriously, I don't see it. Not any more than most other popular fantasy I can think of at least - Williams, Hobb, Martin, Feist, heck even Jordan - they all have RPG-like elements. Or rather, I'd say RPGs have fantasy book-like elements :lolBlackace said:not to derail but Erickson is fun but it reads like a RPG module (which is what it was before it became a book) still fun!
Get any Lucasarts adventure game you can, or at least Grim Fandango.Dale, you might try some point and click adventure games.
Fragamemnon said:If you can stand the somewhat dated visuals (still looks 1000x better than most PSOne RPGs on here and almost as good as early PS2 games), then my vote would be for Anachronox. It's much more linear than most CRPGs and is a ton of fun.
Durante said:So, I gather you haven't read a lot of good contemporary fantasy. Tolkien was nice for his time I guess, and I loved LoTR when I was 12, but it doesn't compare in detail and especially "reality" to Steven Erikson's "Malazan Book of the Fallen", for example. In fact, I'd argue Deadhouse Gates alone is superior in most aspects to LoTR. (I wanted to avoid the generic George RR Martin mention - also, I slightly prefer Erikson after their respective most recent efforts )
Durante said:Anyway, making a thread like this and then refusing to play Planescape: Torment is an affront against humanity. At least the part that cares about RPGs.
That's fine, I just wanted to inject another opinion on the matter, since your original statement sounded a bit like some absolute consensus to me.Gaijin To Ronin said:Erickson? You are entitled to your opinion, but I stand with mine
Sorry for that, I often come across as elitist, mostly because I am. At least on the internets, and when it concerns important stuff like books, games and anime :lolGaijin To Ronin said:(and please, that attitutde of "I gather you haven't read a lot of good contemporary fantasy" is so elitist, especially when you don´t know me).
I realized that from your initial post, and that's why I brought up Erikson. (whom, btw, both you and Blackace misspelled ) I also agree that there are better fantasy authors out there (though, IMHO, not too many), but his world building is meticulous. Though I guess we'll have to wait until all 10 books are released before we can fully judge it.Gaijin To Ronin said:I am speaking of the Middle Earth and how he created the world.
elektrotal said:Suikoden 2.
Bebpo said:It's not about the difficulty, it's about the non-linearity. I just want to know where to go next. If I walk into a room and there are 20 NPCs with 10 mins worth of dialogue to read and one of them will tell me where to go next but I don't know which and what line of dialogue...well that turns me off. I have a busy life and I don't want to waste an hour just talking to NPCs in a room, I just want to get my line of dialogue pointing to the next area and leave.