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What does the next Elder Scrolls game need to improve upon most?
- Thread starter tea_and_crumpets
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Drillary Clinton
Banned
We need a new engine. Fallout 4 proved how dated the gamebryo based on they're currently using is. After an engine upgrade, we need to talk about improving the side quests and bringing them up to the standards other games are held to.
Taliban Stan
Member
I wish that every dialog scene that involved you making choices on a wheel was shot in a cinematic way with body animation and facial animation present and camera angles/shots.
If a game is going to have a dialog system where the only real work the player has to do is choosing dialog options, why not make it look as good and movie like as possible? There's so much of this in Bethesda games and it's always so terrible imo. Characters just stand still and waddle with a generic facial expression that isn't tied to the emotion of the dialog.
I just worry thatgames like Mass Effect Andromeda and Dragon Age Inquisition have copied that approach so now Bethesda may view it as an awesome, industry standard setting feature rather than something that needs to be addressed.
If a game is going to have a dialog system where the only real work the player has to do is choosing dialog options, why not make it look as good and movie like as possible? There's so much of this in Bethesda games and it's always so terrible imo. Characters just stand still and waddle with a generic facial expression that isn't tied to the emotion of the dialog.
I just worry thatgames like Mass Effect Andromeda and Dragon Age Inquisition have copied that approach so now Bethesda may view it as an awesome, industry standard setting feature rather than something that needs to be addressed.
Fbh
Member
2 things IMO:
Combat: Should be the number one priority. This is easily the worst issue with the franchise right now. These games would be amazing if one of the major game mechanics wasn't this bad. Combat is what you spend at least half of your time doing and if it's crap then your game is crap.
The combat in Skyrim isn't "decent" or "average", IMO it's just downright bad. Melee combat in particular is terrible to play and even looks bad. Hits should have more impact, there should be better flow to the combat, hopefully make it more skill based and mabye even add moves or skills (look at how Shadow Warrior handles powers for example).
Also stop with the scaling of enemies. You kill any sence of progression if after 80 hours and having the legendray swords and killing ancient dragons for breakfast I'm still getting my ass kicked by a fucking bear.
Story: This is, of course, just my opinion, but I find both the world and stories from TES and Skyrim in particular to be mediocre. I still remember NPC's and characters from games I played 20 years ago, but I spent like 50 hours with Skyrim and can't remember a single character from that game.
With how these games are made focusing on doing what you want and go explore I'd love to see them create a world like the one of The Witcher 3. Where the main plot is pretty standard and by the numbers but the world itself is filled with interesting, complex and unique characters and stories to encounter.
Also loot. But I think that would be more tied to the combat system.
If the combat system is actually good then mabye movesets, skills and various types of build become more relevant than just stats. That way you can make offer a higher variety of viable weapons and make rewards for quests feel worth it instead of fighting the ancient spirit of a legendary warrior inside a secret temple only to be rewarded with crappy gear
I'd rather have an engine which provides good visuals and performane over having stuff like this
Combat: Should be the number one priority. This is easily the worst issue with the franchise right now. These games would be amazing if one of the major game mechanics wasn't this bad. Combat is what you spend at least half of your time doing and if it's crap then your game is crap.
The combat in Skyrim isn't "decent" or "average", IMO it's just downright bad. Melee combat in particular is terrible to play and even looks bad. Hits should have more impact, there should be better flow to the combat, hopefully make it more skill based and mabye even add moves or skills (look at how Shadow Warrior handles powers for example).
Also stop with the scaling of enemies. You kill any sence of progression if after 80 hours and having the legendray swords and killing ancient dragons for breakfast I'm still getting my ass kicked by a fucking bear.
Story: This is, of course, just my opinion, but I find both the world and stories from TES and Skyrim in particular to be mediocre. I still remember NPC's and characters from games I played 20 years ago, but I spent like 50 hours with Skyrim and can't remember a single character from that game.
With how these games are made focusing on doing what you want and go explore I'd love to see them create a world like the one of The Witcher 3. Where the main plot is pretty standard and by the numbers but the world itself is filled with interesting, complex and unique characters and stories to encounter.
Also loot. But I think that would be more tied to the combat system.
If the combat system is actually good then mabye movesets, skills and various types of build become more relevant than just stats. That way you can make offer a higher variety of viable weapons and make rewards for quests feel worth it instead of fighting the ancient spirit of a legendary warrior inside a secret temple only to be rewarded with crappy gear
Good luck finding an engine that can handle this..
And even if you do it will probably be a buggy mess again..
I'd rather have an engine which provides good visuals and performane over having stuff like this
'Better story' really is a 'be careful what you wish for" type of thing.
Fallout 4 is their latest attempt at better story and we all saw how it turned out.
Not only that, but one of the strengths of ES compared to other open world games is how you can actually completely ignore the actual story and build your own within it's world.
The ES series, like the way they did Fallout since they took it over is kind of a Minecraft type of deal, where the whole package is enough to go on for a quick playthrough, but where if you take every bit on it's own everything is deeply flawed.
Overall they just need to stop over-simplifying things and litterally assume that their players are stupid, and it'll be a major step in the right direction.
Fallout 4 is their latest attempt at better story and we all saw how it turned out.
Not only that, but one of the strengths of ES compared to other open world games is how you can actually completely ignore the actual story and build your own within it's world.
The ES series, like the way they did Fallout since they took it over is kind of a Minecraft type of deal, where the whole package is enough to go on for a quick playthrough, but where if you take every bit on it's own everything is deeply flawed.
Overall they just need to stop over-simplifying things and litterally assume that their players are stupid, and it'll be a major step in the right direction.
That and the terrible, terrible dialogue system.
Vincent Grayson
Member
UserDoesNotExist
Member
TES can't be The Witcher 4, no matter how badly people want it. TES games *can't* have a strong narrative because the main character can be anything. They need to lean into their strengths, which are ambiance and world building.
Anyway, combat has to change. The combat was already a bit stale back in Morrowind, now it's embarrassing. And would it kill Bethesda to make people, as another GAFer put it, "not look like their heads were carved out of potatoes"?
Anyway, combat has to change. The combat was already a bit stale back in Morrowind, now it's embarrassing. And would it kill Bethesda to make people, as another GAFer put it, "not look like their heads were carved out of potatoes"?
I love Witcher 3. I love Skyrim. I don't want Witcher 3 in my Skyrim or vice versa. Either give me a game with strong story and characters or a flexible game with a blank slate protagonist with a huge reactive world to interact with and roleplay. Try and achieve both and you end up with Fallout 4 which, in my opinion, failed in both regards.
Fbh
Member
So instead of trying to improve the franchise now that games like The Witcher 3 and Breath of the Wild have raised the bar they should be contempt to be the rpg where you can throw stuff on the ground? Awesome.
I mean, sure it's cool you can pick up so many different things. But if that's more important than decent visuals and performance (on consoles) then at least make something interesting with the game mechanic.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
I hope for all that is holy, that they don't listen to NeoGAF about the combat.
It's fine.
Don't fuck with it too much. It's not why we play the game.
I don't usually agree with this line of thought, but for TES I agree with you. If you don't like the combat of TES.. go play a different game.
People going down this route of complaining about combat mechanics is how we ended up with shit like FF13.
The game is NOT about skill based combat. RPG's in general never have been about skill based, precision reflex combat. It'd be a mistake to change it.
Why not ask the Souls series to become more open like TES then?
It's fine.
Don't fuck with it too much. It's not why we play the game.
I don't usually agree with this line of thought, but for TES I agree with you. If you don't like the combat of TES.. go play a different game.
People going down this route of complaining about combat mechanics is how we ended up with shit like FF13.
The game is NOT about skill based combat. RPG's in general never have been about skill based, precision reflex combat. It'd be a mistake to change it.
Why not ask the Souls series to become more open like TES then?
Skittzo0413
Member
Morrowind wasn't fully voiced (which in my opinion is a very good thing) so they were happy to write thousands and thousands of lines of dialogue to help develop the story. Unlike in Skyrim when there are maybe 15 voice actors voicing about 500 NPCs, each with maybe 2 lines of dialogue if we're lucky.
InsaneFandom
Member
Well...
- Combat.
- Characters in general could really do with some work. Having some prominent NPCs with their own arcs would be cool
- More choices & flexibility regarding quests - atm for the most part your only real choice is whether to accept a quest or not. Having different quests actually interact with each other would also be cool
- Some actual consequences & reactions depending on who you are and what you've done - I get that this can be difficult to implement but something more then some throwaway comments from the guards would be nice.
SpiceMelange
Member
Good luck finding an engine that can handle this..
And even if you do it will probably be a buggy mess again..
Is it really important that spoon and forks are physics object? I'd prefer they'd cut that feature if that means the death of cells and support of seamless transitions (outdoors to cities, every single house interior, actual caverns physically there, etc)
I think my biggest beef with Skyrim is actually the way crafting works within the level up system. The whole system where you level up skills by actually using them works out fine for everything else, but for any of the crafting perks you're pretty much forced to tediously grind out shit you don't need to get your abilities anywhere near useful. You would never get something like smithing or enchanting up by just naturally using it when needed so you end up cranking out hundreds of items just to raise your level.
Raven77
Member
I honestly feel that if they completely changed the combat and character movement it would no longer feel like the elder scrolls we've come to know.
I personally love it because the "issues" with it are simply part of the gameplay for me and I wouldn't want it any other way. Although I must admit I do tons of archery and never focus too heavily on melee.
I personally love it because the "issues" with it are simply part of the gameplay for me and I wouldn't want it any other way. Although I must admit I do tons of archery and never focus too heavily on melee.
The #1 thing I would like to see in the next ES is Oblivion-quality quests. Skyrim did a lot of things right, like leveling, perks, etc., but there we no quests as good as:
The only quests that comes *close* in Skyrim is the "Hangover" quest. I love Skyrim but the "go here and kill draugr" quests muddied the waters so much my enthusiasm for all quests was greatly diminished.
I think ES (and Fallout) should drop the engine that auto-generates quests all together. It lowers the quality of the game and Bethesda games have plenty of content without it.
- Missing painter
- The locked mansion
- Invisible assassin
- Almost all the daedric shrine quests
- Inn at the ship
- The ultimate heist
- Assassin's Guild (the best quest ever IMO)
The only quests that comes *close* in Skyrim is the "Hangover" quest. I love Skyrim but the "go here and kill draugr" quests muddied the waters so much my enthusiasm for all quests was greatly diminished.
I think ES (and Fallout) should drop the engine that auto-generates quests all together. It lowers the quality of the game and Bethesda games have plenty of content without it.
Emergent gameplay. Look at Zelda: BotW and Dishonored as more recent examples of the direction they should go for. Quests become much more interesting when you have limitless ways of completing them. Tie the physics into the gameplay. I should be able to use magic to pick up all the junk I drop on the floor and throw it at my enemies. Make the world more vertical with being able to climb things and abilities like blink from Dishonored. Get help from Arkane.
OfficerRaichu15
Member
New engine
How neatly thought the NPCs were meh in regards to quests and personality.
Oh and more interactions with the environment.
How neatly thought the NPCs were meh in regards to quests and personality.
Oh and more interactions with the environment.
Quests and writing. Skyrim is a vapid place, and has the worst guilds and quest lines in the series, not even having a jot on Oblivion, not to mention Morrowind. With such a rich and evocative lore, there is absolutely no reason for the game to have the stilted and monochrome setting that Skyrim has. I don't know how anyone could feel satisfied exploring that place -- I was left bored to tears by the end.
Bethesda won't heed that advice, though. Fallout 4 is proof of that.
Bethesda won't heed that advice, though. Fallout 4 is proof of that.
Either their horrible with their own engine or they need a new one. The sheer level of bugs and jank is beyond almost any game of their calibre. You might be comfortable with your assumption, but there's clearly something not clicking.
killatopak
Member
Combat.
Easton Dark
Member
You already can. Telekinesis.
To their credit Fallout 4 is the least buggy game Bethesda has ever made.
R_thanatos
Member
There is no point unless they change their freaking engine.
The priorities are :
1) engine
2) animations
3) battle system
The priorities are :
1) engine
2) animations
3) battle system
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Well, yes.
It's part of what makes them immersive.
I'd suggest that shit like the bolded is really important.
People who complain about the combat in TES are missing the game for what it is, and want it to be something it isn't.
..also the engine is fine. What other engine is really doing anything close to what Bethesda is doing with TES/Fallout?
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Honestly? Everything.
I'd love to see a complete rethink of what makes TES and Fallout tick. They're trying to hold on to minimal elements of the past in order to make it feel like they haven't truly abandoned their "RPG" status, when in fact, they have, they just don't have the nous to pull it off.
They either need to fully go down the road of making their games more action focused, or take a different route and go for a more traditional role-playing system. I don't mind which, so long as it's compelling and fun to play.
Their writing has stunk for a decade and a half now, between frigid characters and forgettable stories. I think this extends to the lore and worlds they inhabit. TES feels so derivative at this point that it has no identity of its own. It's just another western fantasy game.
People will probably disagree with me but I think their environment design and approach to building believable worlds needs a real overhaul. I see a lot of people say that TES and Fallout are immersive, but to me, they're anything but. They've always felt very cookie cutter in the sense that it does really feel like they create a bunch of assets and then slap them around their world, only vaguely making an effort to make it feel cohesive. I actually think this was one place Fallout 4 improved, the world was a little smaller, but it felt more packed with unique buildings and areas.
Besides that, their engine and AI systems need to be completely rethought. Skyrim was not a living, breathing world. It was a world where you could see the cogs moving, the gears slowly grinding and all the ticks and tocks of each NPC's existence. They need to move past that.
I'd love to see a complete rethink of what makes TES and Fallout tick. They're trying to hold on to minimal elements of the past in order to make it feel like they haven't truly abandoned their "RPG" status, when in fact, they have, they just don't have the nous to pull it off.
They either need to fully go down the road of making their games more action focused, or take a different route and go for a more traditional role-playing system. I don't mind which, so long as it's compelling and fun to play.
Their writing has stunk for a decade and a half now, between frigid characters and forgettable stories. I think this extends to the lore and worlds they inhabit. TES feels so derivative at this point that it has no identity of its own. It's just another western fantasy game.
People will probably disagree with me but I think their environment design and approach to building believable worlds needs a real overhaul. I see a lot of people say that TES and Fallout are immersive, but to me, they're anything but. They've always felt very cookie cutter in the sense that it does really feel like they create a bunch of assets and then slap them around their world, only vaguely making an effort to make it feel cohesive. I actually think this was one place Fallout 4 improved, the world was a little smaller, but it felt more packed with unique buildings and areas.
Besides that, their engine and AI systems need to be completely rethought. Skyrim was not a living, breathing world. It was a world where you could see the cogs moving, the gears slowly grinding and all the ticks and tocks of each NPC's existence. They need to move past that.
TheCongressman1
Member
Combat and movement need major overhauls. All the fantasy rpg story tropes don't bother me, but clunky gameplay certainly does.
After playing Skyrim I thought they should have some kind of climbing skill. Awkwardly trying to jump up the side of a mountain sucks, and I want to explore.
After playing Skyrim I thought they should have some kind of climbing skill. Awkwardly trying to jump up the side of a mountain sucks, and I want to explore.
R_thanatos
Member
It's possible to improve without doing something entirely different.
We want improvements .. Right now that system is bad for many players because it doesn't have the right balance.
It's like the leveling system . many games have such a system but they cap the range so you can feel the difference.
The game lack a sense of progression and a reason to experiment other than " experiment otherwise you'll bored out of your mind" .
And no the engine is not fine.. It's not optimised for starters .. and the fact that it save everything you do is USELESS in 99% of the situations you encounter and cause memory management problems just because the game get slightly prettier each time doesn't mean that the underlining problem with the engine isn't there.
When you have the same technical problems across 4+ games since morrowind it's time to LET GO of that freaking engine
Yo this^
BotW was the first open world game since Morrowind to nail this feeling. I hope Bethesda and other RPG makers take note of the lack of quest markers and give us more exploration based on interacting with NPCs and the environment and less based on quest marker/guided arrow bullshit.
Don't even make quest markers optional. Remove them from the game and design around the lack of them so we can actually feel lost in a giant world.
Spiritwalker
Member
Gameplay should be the #1 priority. The combat in TES is just dreadful.
R_thanatos
Member
The creation engine is just another branch of gamebryo .. it still carries the same underlining problems gamebryo has.
Back then in 2011 , it had problems , the same problem found in F4 .
They need to change that freaking engine
New Engine.
Also they need to understand that finishing a quest line doesn't necessarily have to result in you becoming the king of said faction. It doesn't make sense and it feels really hollow.
"This guy is the leader of the theives guild and hte college of magic and the thane of every keep and the leader of the companions AND..., but naw, never heard of him?"
Also they need to understand that finishing a quest line doesn't necessarily have to result in you becoming the king of said faction. It doesn't make sense and it feels really hollow.
"This guy is the leader of the theives guild and hte college of magic and the thane of every keep and the leader of the companions AND..., but naw, never heard of him?"
An actual economy that we can interact with if we choose to have a profession.
An opportunity to be a blacksmith and make custom weapons (based on my XP/skill) with different abilities/strengths)
My skill/xp would determine the quality/weakness (the higher the skill/xp the better the quality, and unique customization options)
I could then put these up for sale on a bulletin boards of sorts or even sign a contract with in-game vendors (for an in-game fee (you decide the split)) which other players could see and purchase from the vendors themselves in their playthroughs
Imagine be a lumberjack selling wood to a carpenter who makes specialized furniture for player homes...
An opportunity to be a blacksmith and make custom weapons (based on my XP/skill) with different abilities/strengths)
My skill/xp would determine the quality/weakness (the higher the skill/xp the better the quality, and unique customization options)
I could then put these up for sale on a bulletin boards of sorts or even sign a contract with in-game vendors (for an in-game fee (you decide the split)) which other players could see and purchase from the vendors themselves in their playthroughs
Imagine be a lumberjack selling wood to a carpenter who makes specialized furniture for player homes...
BouncyFrag
Member
-Better quests that make use of the massive amount of lore TES has. Special emphasis on the batshif crazy lore too
-More voice actors so I don't feel like I'm bumping into the same 5 npcs every ten minutes that say the exact same things
-More guilds that have rivalries/conflicts with other guilds
-NO VOICED PROTAGONIST
-More voice actors so I don't feel like I'm bumping into the same 5 npcs every ten minutes that say the exact same things
-More guilds that have rivalries/conflicts with other guilds
-NO VOICED PROTAGONIST
I'm genuinely stunned that people are saying things like "combat is fine" and "we don't play the game for the combat".
It's boggling my mind that a game where fighting is literally one of the main things that you do is being excused for having a truly horrendous combat system.
Sorry, stealth archery may be fine but try destruction magic / melee some time. It's total ass. It's floaty, totally lacking in impact, poorly balanced and completely unsatisfying. Just because the game is an RPG doesn't mean that melee combat, which is a pretty huge part of the game, should boil down to skill free button mashing.
I mean someone said that RPGs in general haven't had skill based combat. Really? If you're going to have combat in an RPG it either needs to be either: strategic, like CRPGs such as Divinity or Pillars of Eternity, where "skill" comes down to how you strategise and utilise character abilities etc. Or: it needs to be real time like Elder Scrolls in which case it needs to require some ability on the part of the player and it needs to feel satisfying.
At the moment TES is neither strategic nor satisfying. If you're playing a melee fighter it's just a case of running in and mashing the attack button till either they or you die and if you're a magic character it's... erm... spamming weak ass fireballs which feel like spitballs until you run out of mana and then have to chug potions while running around dodging the enemy who hasn't really lost much hp.
People go on and on about how TES has this wonderful physics system where you can pick up loads of random junk and throw it about. However when it comes to combat which, as I've said before, is a HUGE part of the game whether some people on here like it or not, the physics system plays hardly any part at all. It's so superficial and games like BOTW are making TES look totally outdated.
It's boggling my mind that a game where fighting is literally one of the main things that you do is being excused for having a truly horrendous combat system.
Sorry, stealth archery may be fine but try destruction magic / melee some time. It's total ass. It's floaty, totally lacking in impact, poorly balanced and completely unsatisfying. Just because the game is an RPG doesn't mean that melee combat, which is a pretty huge part of the game, should boil down to skill free button mashing.
I mean someone said that RPGs in general haven't had skill based combat. Really? If you're going to have combat in an RPG it either needs to be either: strategic, like CRPGs such as Divinity or Pillars of Eternity, where "skill" comes down to how you strategise and utilise character abilities etc. Or: it needs to be real time like Elder Scrolls in which case it needs to require some ability on the part of the player and it needs to feel satisfying.
At the moment TES is neither strategic nor satisfying. If you're playing a melee fighter it's just a case of running in and mashing the attack button till either they or you die and if you're a magic character it's... erm... spamming weak ass fireballs which feel like spitballs until you run out of mana and then have to chug potions while running around dodging the enemy who hasn't really lost much hp.
People go on and on about how TES has this wonderful physics system where you can pick up loads of random junk and throw it about. However when it comes to combat which, as I've said before, is a HUGE part of the game whether some people on here like it or not, the physics system plays hardly any part at all. It's so superficial and games like BOTW are making TES look totally outdated.
johntown
Banned
Combat - this should be the number 1 thing they improve.
Stop dumbing down the game - this "should" be an RPG where you have stats to manage and a ton of abilities, weapons and armor to manage as well. Ever since Morrowind they have steadily been removing abilities and and things from the game. Please don't make it perks only like Fallout 4.
Choices and decisions that actually matter - These games (not just Bethesda) are starting to make it where you can never fail, you have no real good or evil and nothing you do really matters. Give me more shades of gray, if I join the Dark Brotherhood and start killing people make something happen beside overhearing people talking in the street. Maybe I want to help Necromancers? If I do of course help evil there should be some price to pay.
Stop dumbing down the game - this "should" be an RPG where you have stats to manage and a ton of abilities, weapons and armor to manage as well. Ever since Morrowind they have steadily been removing abilities and and things from the game. Please don't make it perks only like Fallout 4.
Choices and decisions that actually matter - These games (not just Bethesda) are starting to make it where you can never fail, you have no real good or evil and nothing you do really matters. Give me more shades of gray, if I join the Dark Brotherhood and start killing people make something happen beside overhearing people talking in the street. Maybe I want to help Necromancers? If I do of course help evil there should be some price to pay.
I'd want them to go back and look at Morrowind, then look at BotW, and work out how Nintendo beat them at their own game.
I also hope they've learned from Fallout 4 and lean away from voiced protagonists.
It's also been time for a new engine for about a decade.
The absolute last thing I want from TES games is fucking Dark Souls style combat.
There are games out there for people that like that shit, keep it the hell away from TES.
Could the combat be better? Sure. But I don't play these games for the combat, so I really don't want it to be something they focus on or make challenging.
I also hope they've learned from Fallout 4 and lean away from voiced protagonists.
It's also been time for a new engine for about a decade.
The absolute last thing I want from TES games is fucking Dark Souls style combat.
There are games out there for people that like that shit, keep it the hell away from TES.
Could the combat be better? Sure. But I don't play these games for the combat, so I really don't want it to be something they focus on or make challenging.
Skittzo0413
Member
I don't know if it's the way you're phrasing it, but are you really suggesting that the Witcher 3 has good combat? Or at least better combat than Skyrim?
Honestly, while Skyrim's combat is pretty crappy, the Witcher 3's is absolutely awful. I don't know how they managed to make it so bland and so terrible to control.
It could certainly take some cues from Dark Souls though, especially when it comes to the weight behind attacks and hits.