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[LCGeek]

Way to get defensive and rant over there. I was talking about the Game itself not LAN. And you could have picked Counter Strike from my post instead of Halo , if that was your point.Since that game was pretty much born on LAN.

Doom also heavily borrowed from Wolfenstein , thats not the point here. What I was talking about is how different FPS today are from doom. Fighting games and 3D platformers on the other hand arent all that different from SM64 and SF2.

I was just saying the success of the FPS genre shouldn't ENTIRELY be placed on Doom alone , as there have been other titles along the way.
The reason I mentioned Halo or actually I should be placing Goldeneye , was its importance on Consoles. FPS was a dead genre on consoles and those two games changed that. Without Consoles FPS , the genre wouldnt be as big today.

It's my choice and right here, didn't break the rules so go ahead and be more whiny about facts or history. Nor was anyone shouldering the entire success of fps games on doom, we just give it's influence due credit since ID software went out of their way to include or do certain features well that devs today don't even do or still do worse than doom which is pathetic. If you want to claim that point it out and call it out but I don't see anyone doing that I see you taking aim at a bullseye nobody put up.

Doom did borrow a lot from wolfenstein, but most people know the basic reason why it's from the same company but it also has quite a bit to separate itself from it. The line to dismiss doom because of wolfenstein is old as hell and doesn't make any of it's accomplishments or features any less considering wolfenstein can't/didn't do most of the things doom did well.

Most modern shooters aren't that different at the core just the surface. Doom was about as much as how a fps can function as much what a lot of people liked about it's gameplay. Considering how the other 3 games are afforded that in this discussion seems odd people don't want to really examine what doom did outside of pure gameplay or worse act like it didn't happen at all.

We are talking about systematic influence including consoles doom without a doubt influenced a lot of other platforms besides pc considering where it showed up.

That's a rant.

 

[Cormano]

Doom? I'd say Wolf3D

 

[CronoShot]

Super Mario 64 > Doom > Street Fighter 2

Doom set the bar for FPSs.

Street Fighter 2 set the bar for 2D fighters.

Super Mario 64 set the bar for 3D games in general.

 

[grandwizard]

Lol, 20 years later and Marathon fans are still trying to pretend it was anything more than a bad ripoff of Doom made for the captive Mac audience. Marathon isn't in the list amongst these games for a reason, it doesn't hang. Let it go.

I'm just saying that while Doom was great, it's influence to future aspects of the genre were no where near as great as Marathon or Quake. Those took the genre from the Maze faze to the modern shooters we have today.

You keep calling Doom a 'Maze game'. I think you need to actually play Doom or look up it's map design to see it's anything but that. Doom had great level design that holds up to this day. Wolf3d was what you could refer to as maze-like, Doom is a completely different story.

 

[213372bu]

Doom influenced the FPS genre.
Super Mario 64 influenced all genres with a 3rd person camera.

This needs to be quoted again :

You already posted that, but I don't think you understand that Doom kickstarted lots of things of PC, and later,console gaming:

Easily moddable files which led whole "expansions" and themed mods with new levels.

Got lots of modders employed at high positions for different companies. This was due to Doom being the first and biggest modding communities.

Popularized network multiplayer

Had a revolutionary engine that changed the way 3D graphics were presented and included stereo audio.

And that's excluding its gameplay influences

A lot of that would also heavily influence console gaming to what it is today.

 

[Jonneh3003]

Doom didn't perfect the genre at all, unless that genre is "maze game". It's the epitome of that style of FPS for sure, but again modern FPS take very little from what Doom did, and more from what Marathon did.

Marathon is the roots that all other modern FPS trace back too... it's just not as well not because it was a Mac game... it had story, freelook and MP.

Quake took it to the next level though, and the genre never looked back.

I think people tend to remember Doom as something other than what it was... it was a great game and hella fun to play and a fun MP game as well.

It's why I always laugh when people wanna post up Doom maps as a "LOL MODERN MAPS, LOOK AT DOOM"... it's a different game entirely.. it was the end result of Maze to Wolfenstein to Doom.

Doom is fun for the same reason PacMan is still fun, but Marathon created the modern FPS.

I still throw Doom into my 32X every couple of weeks and find more fun in it than the vast majority of other shooters. It's more replayable and simply playable than almost anything else out there so I still personally think it perfected the genre. Sure the genre's evolved but has anything surpassed Doom in terms of enjoyment?

 

[LeleSocho]

SM64>Doom>SF2

The only influential thing FF7 did was to make developer understand to never use these again as style for your characters:

 

[Synth]

I mean without COD4 or Halo , FPS wont be the juggernaut it is today. SM64 and SF2 on the other hand brought their genres to the forefront.

I think a pretty important thing to consider here is that the other two genres outright aren't juggernauts today. And in Street Fighter's case the most resilient other entries in the genre, are those that took the least from it (Tekken, Smash, Mortal Kombat etc).

 

[pancakesandsex]

I would say FF7 since it's arguably the catalyst for the shift to narrative focused gaming as we've seen it the past 12 years

 

[BigDug13]

Doom? I'd say Wolf3D

Map, various environment types, outdoor areas, verticality, enemy variety, large weapon options including explosions, multiplayer deathmatch and co-op modes.

Wolf3D is the true start of the FPS genre but Doom redefined it with many things that still exist today. I can still go back and play Doom and have a blast. wolf3D has not aged anywhere near as close and is missing a TON of the features that Doom spawned. Wolf had none of those things above and it also had no "strafe while turning" that became such a defining attack method in the FPS genre.

 

[Solid Samus]

I would say FF7 since it's arguably the catalyst for the shift to narrative focused gaming as we've seen it the past 12 years

It's not even close to having been that.

 

[Aaronrules380]

You already posted that, but I don't think you understand that Doom kickstarted lots of things of PC, and later,console gaming:

Easily moddable files which led whole "expansions" and themed mods with new levels.

Got lots of modders employed at high positions for different companies. This was due to Doom being the first and biggest modding communities.

Popularized network multiplayer

Had a revolutionary engine that changed the way 3D graphics were presented and included stereo audio.

And that's excluding its gameplay influences

A lot of that would also heavily influence console gaming to what it is today.

i don't think you can credit any game as being influential because it was modded, since that's not something the game did itself, it's something fans did

 

[Mcdohl]

For me, FF7 by a very wide margin.

For the industry, all 3 but probably Doom the most.

 

[MisterCrow]

Super Mario 64, no contest.

SF2 was good for fighting games, and Doom for FPS.

But SM64 was a leap into full-blown polygonal 3D gaming, including full analog movement, camera systems, etc, the likes of which still appear in many genres today.

Those Super Mario 64 exactly! I'm personally torn between that and Doom, which really pushed the tech for graphics and networked play, plus the ability to make maps and mods. Doom was really seminal.

 

[Stevey]

Doom

 

[diaspora]

Super Mario 64/ Doom toss-up. Hell, I wouldn't put FF7 up with the rest of those, wtf

 

[Aaronrules380]

I think a pretty important thing to consider here is that the other two genres outright aren't juggernauts today. And in Street Fighter's case the most resilient other entries in the genre, are those that took the least from it (Tekken, Smash, Mortal Kombat etc).

Mario 64 is influential because it's influences go far beyond 3d platformers. See quotes from creators of stuff like GTA 3 and assassins creed

 

[Solid Samus]

Super Mario 64/ Doom toss-up. Hell, I wouldn't put FF7 up with the rest of those, wtf

For real. Remember that "which is more revolutionary, Sm64 or FF7" thread? Shit was pure crazytown, bunch of Cloud avatars trying to rewrite history.

 

[KooopaKid]

This isn't true one bit.

Let me say the first real thing doom gave us compared to maze war or wolfenstein is real combat mechanics or having to use them to complete levels. You can bully your way through on wolfenstein and never need to conserve ammo you won't be doing this to complete doom on the harder difficulties. Another thing people take for granted is environmental destruction or inciting monsters in variety of ways, which wolfenstein lacked. I would say that alone is a key feature of a lot of fps games today still employ in some fashion for entertainment or function. Doom gave us WASD, multiplayer coop and dm along with mods. So with all that said I look forward to seeing your evidence on influence cause one game literally wrote the book not on it's own genre but on a lot of others that borrow heavily from engine designs or mechanics ID software gave us.

Doom did as much for it's own genre as it has for parts of the industry overall most people want to forget before doom shareware downloading was non existent same for other aspects of it's design people keep mentioning. We have demos today because of this one game.

So Doom invented up, down, right and left? lol
Multiplayer coop? What about Double Dragon?
Death Match? What about say, Super Mario Kart?

LCGeek
Fomerly sane

Oh.

 

[Vice]

Doom and SM64 are on the same tier. Both changed gamong completey on pc and consoles. The gameplay theyninteoduced was emulated in tons of other titles, but the additions of stuff like modding, online and famera control pretty much setup how they'd be handled for years and years.

Then SF2, it's style has influenced the entire genre and you can see bits of it in every 2D fighting game.

Then FF7, it was the most popular rpg at the time with cutscenes, but they already existed and its gameplay systems weren't too influential.

 

[Tacitus_]

Doom clones have been the best selling titles for how many years now?

 

[Synth]

Mario 64 is influential because it's influences go far beyond 3d platformers. See quotes from creators of stuff like GTA 3 and assassins creed

Sure, but so does Doom. You don't have be an FPS (or even a shooter at all) to draw from DooM. All these games games will have influenced tons of developers both consciously and subconsciously. A handful of quotes doesn't mean much in a discuss like this imo.

 

[Shadoken]

It's my choice and right here, didn't break the rules so go ahead and be more whiny about facts or history. Nor was anyone shouldering the entire success of fps games on doom, we just give it's influence due credit since ID software went out of their way to include or do certain features well that devs today don't even do or still do worse than doom which is pathetic. If you want to claim that point it out and call it out but I don't see anyone doing that I see you taking aim at a bullseye nobody put up.t.

Choice and right for what ? Randomly misunderstanding a post and saying I don't know shit about fps history ? What kind of elitist bs is this ?
I AM giving doom its credit. And there were posts on here claiming about the success of the FPS genre as if no other title helped it along the way. FPS had a steady growth and other titles did help along the way , thats the point I was trying to make.

 

[Solid Samus]

Doom clones have been the best selling titles for how many years now?

Doom clones haven't been hot for over a decade. It's all about dem CoD4 clones now.

 

[213372bu]

i don't think you can credit any game as being influential because it was modded, since that's not something the game did itself, it's something fans did

It is widely the credit of the game.

The file type and engine allowed for the game to be modded, lol.

Even then, modding is nothing compared to stuff Doom brought out.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Sure, but so does Doom. You don't have be an FPS (or even a shooter at all) to draw from DooM. All these games games will have influenced tons of developers both consciously and subconsciously. A handful of quotes doesn't mean much in a discuss like this imo.

I think crediting modding as an influence is ridiculous since that's something that was done to the game, not something the game did. And that's all I've seen people give for doom really.

 

[AgeEighty]

They were all important for different reasons, and the influences they exerted on gaming were in different areas that don't have a lot of overlap. So it's pretty tough to compare them side-by-side.

 

[213372bu]

So Doom invented up, down, right and left? lol
Multiplayer coop? What about Double Dragon?
Death Match? What about say, Super Mario Kart?



Oh.

Deathmatch and online multiplayer in the mainstream was Doom.

 

[LCGeek]

So Doom invented up, down, right and left? lol
Multiplayer coop? What about Double Dragon?
Death Match? What about say, Super Mario Kart?
Oh.

I see snarkiness is your only point.

Considering how you could map your controls in some fps games before and after it's quite a big deal. Lets not remember how people were forced to use crappy keyboard arrows before doom vs doing anything you wanted or as someone mentioned strafe and turn which makes it automatically a lot different than any wolfenstein.

Most fps games didn't have coop before and very few after it. Considering how bungie took off with making it even more of a trait in their games I say it had an effect.

I wasn't aware that mario kart in anyway offered any official form of networking multiplayer till what version recently?

 

[rokero]

super mario 64 no contest for me, I remember people lining up the demo kiosk for hours just looking at the game in awe

 

[petran79]

Doom wasn't the first FPS. Super Mario 64 wasn't the first 3D platformer. FFVII wasn't the first JRPG. It isn't about "spawning a genre" it's about being the game that pushed an existing genre to the forefront and making it popular. After Street Fighter II the market was suddenly flooded with 2D fighters all wanting a piece of the action.

It is also a pity that Fatal Fury was overshadowed by Street Fighter II, even though they were released the same year. FF was developed by original SF creator. It featured a two lane stage and it had its own unique fg mechanic. It also had a better story and introduced perhaps the best fg villain, Geese Howard.

The two lane system that was dropped in the SNES version and the Genesis version removed two characters.

Depending where one lived, SNK games were much more popular than Capcom games.
SNK also developed Samurai Shodown, that would spawn a lot of weapon based fighting games. This lead also to 3D weapon fighters like Toshinden, then Soul Blade, Edge and Calibur.

 

[KooopaKid]

They were all important for different reasons, and the influences they exerted on gaming were in different areas that don't have a lot of overlap. So it's pretty tough to compare them side-by-side.

This is too reasonable! Pick a side!

Spoiler

 

[213372bu]

I think crediting modding as an influence is ridiculous since that's something that was done to the game, not something the game did. And that's all I've seen people give for doom really.

Do you think users just grab games and change a few text files to mod them?

Doom and the file format WAD allowed for easy modding.

And that inclusion birthed an entire community that would go on to heavily impact gaming as we know today.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

It's obviously not doom as many games actually were influential on that one.

The most influential game is obviously a hard debate and different games at different time periods may have had more clones or people following it at different points in time.


As far as what games are most influential for their respected times

Mario NES

Super mario 64

Street Fighter 2

Cod

These are all pretty good choices and I'd say it's up in the air who actually had more clones. I don't think you can count SF2 as it had a lot of games already like it before it was out actually

I think you need to include Fighter in the mix though. And I put it above sf2 as there were already a lot of games like SF2 before SF2 was a thing.

Mario Brothers
Super Mario 64
Mario Kart
Wolfienstein
Pong
Wii Sports
WOW
Virtua Fighter
FF7
Tetris
COD
Virtua racing
Contra
Halo
Ridge Racer
Zelda
Metroid
Gran Turismo






There are in order of what I think had most influence possibly...

I'd go with something like this

 

[Prototype]

street fighter 2 set a template that is still used to this day, almost exactly. That's huge imo

 

[Aaronrules380]

I see snarkiness is your only point.

Considering how you could map your controls in some fps games before and after it's quite a big deal. Lets not remember how people were forced to use crappy keyboard arrows before doom vs doing anything you wanted or as someone mentioned strafe and turn which makes it automatically a lot different than any wolfenstein.

Most fps games didn't have coop before and very few after it. Considering how bungie took off with making it even more of a trait in their games I say it had an effect.

I wasn't aware that mario kart in anyway offered any official form of networking multiplayer till what version recently?

i don't think being the first to do something makes you influential if you don't make it the standard. I'm honestly not familiar with PC gaming, so if anyone's willing to say if the way doom did network multiplayer is similar to today? Did it create a boom of such games for PC? And was anyone else working on the same thing at the same time?

 

[Whide]

Super Man 64

 

[Aaronrules380]

Honestly, I want to clarify that in general, my original statements are more about the way people dismiss SM64. From what I understand, DOom probably is comparable. SF4 and FF VII definitely don't compare though

 

[Shadoken]

They were all important for different reasons, and the influences they exerted on gaming were in different areas that don't have a lot of overlap. So it's pretty tough to compare them side-by-side.

But but my favorite genre > yours. Is pretty much this thread.

Although I still have to give SM64 credit for other genres as well. But its not the only title.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

For real. Remember that "which is more revolutionary, Sm64 or FF7" thread? Shit was pure crazytown, bunch of Cloud avatars trying to rewrite history.

I've been defending FF7 here, not because I think it's actually the most influential (I'd go SM64 > Doom > FF7 > SF2), but because I think a lot of people are seriously underestimating its influence. It reaches far beyond just JRPGs.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

i think it's best to look at what created more games to try to follow it and none were more apparent than mario 64 and mario bros imo, nothing about what I like.

COD is getting there though lol

Strange that doom is part of the discussion, that makes no sense since other games were used to inspire doom and while it did have a lot of copy cats those games expanded way beyond doom quite quickly (half life, etc)

Street fighter should be the real influence (even though sf2 was copie more)

Fatal Fury came before SF2 as well. So, sf2 had the most overall influence in that time period perhaps but it wasn't the true influence, that belongs to SF1.

 

[Aaronrules380]

street fighter 2 set a template that is still used to this day, almost exactly. That's huge imo

It's also limited to one very niche genre. It's definitely important and influential, but not on the level of sm64 or doom. FF VII on the other hand has 2 noteworthy influences that it can be credited for, and that is fmcs and prerenderee backgrounds, and both of those are long dead

 

[LCGeek]

i don't think being the first to do something makes you influential if you don't make it the standard. I'm honestly not familiar with PC gaming, so if anyone's willing to say if the way doom did network multiplayer is similar to today? Did it create a boom of such games for PC? And was anyone else working on the same thing at the same time?

Doom 1&2 networking led in to quake networking. Without quake or id tech we literally wouldn't have COD as it's built on quake tech, is that enough for your influence requirement. Doom was the first major peer to peer game certainly the first to be played in the high thousands or millions, if you don't realize how influential that is and how it's on various platforms I can't really say much else.

Forgot to add id software created the modern tick in fps game for multiplayer which is the basis of how most fps games data operate in multiplayer still today.

 

[everthustodeadbeats]

It's easier to dismiss SM64 when you consider today that only the Mario franchise is carrying that sort of game. If you're going to link SM64 to something like Tomb Raider, then you have plenty of offshoots of the Tomb Raider formula going.

3d platforming is fairly dead, so I choose Doom. FPS'es flood the market.

 

[213372bu]

Honestly, I want to clarify that in general, my original statements are more about the way people dismiss SM64. From what I understand, DOom probably is comparable. SF4 and FF VII definitely don't compare though

Eh it's just a discussion.

I said myself that SM64 was probably just as influential for not only the analog stick but attention to detail and some gameplay elements.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I've been defending FF7 here, not because I think it's actually the most influential (I'd go SM64 > Doom > FF7 > SF2), but because I think a lot of people are seriously underestimating its influence. It reaches far beyond just JRPGs.

it was super popular, but I really don't think it had a strong impact on modern gaming. Crediting it for modern cinematic games is ridiculous imo since the modern trend is way more recent.

 

[Birgitte2004]

Back in the day the question was always Doom or Dune 2. Too bad there are so few games in the vein of Dune 2 these days, unless you put MOBAs in that category.

 

[Solid Samus]

It's easier to dismiss SM64 when you consider today that only the Mario franchise is carrying that sort of game. If you're going to link SM64 to something like Tomb Raider, then you have plenty of offshoots of the Tomb Raider formula going.

3d platforming is fairly dead, so I choose Doom. FPS'es flood the market.

As users in this thread have stated, there's a lot more to the influence these games had than just 'how well their genre is doing today'.

I don't know why so many people are hung up on genre like that's the only metric you can judge influence by

 

[Shadoken]

It's also limited to one very niche genre. It's definitely important and influential, but not on the level of sm64 or doom. FF VII on the other hand has 2 noteworthy influences that it can be credited for, and that is fmcs and prerenderee backgrounds, and both of those are long dead

I would hardly say SF2 is just limited to fighting games. How many other head to head games were there before it. It completely changed how competitve gaming is , when all previous games were based on high scores instead of human opponents.

And look at how big competitive gaming is now.

I've been defending FF7 here, not because I think it's actually the most influential (I'd go SM64 > Doom > FF7 > SF2), but because I think a lot of people are seriously underestimating its influence. It reaches far beyond just JRPGs.

You cant just give FF7 credit for cinematic cutscenes , those were well underway just that CD tech was needed for it to become realised. Didnt RE,MGS also have these features?

 

[Aaronrules380]

Doom 1&2 networking led in to quake networking. Without quake or id tech we literally wouldn't have COD as it's built on quake tech, is that enough for your influence requirement. Doom was the first major peer to peer game certainly the first to be played in the high thousands or millions, if you don't realize how influential that is and how it's on various platforms I can't really say much else.

doom is definitely super influential, and I never meant to say it wasn't