Classics that reach such heights cannot be tarnished with sequels.
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What happened to IGA (Koji Igarashi)?
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BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
Scrubbing Kojima's toilet.
Father_Brain
Banned
I'm convinced that anyone who suggests this has never actually played either franchise.
What's the best aspect of every good Metroid game? Level design.
What's the worst aspect of every Igavania? Level design.
Sounds like a match made in heaven!
Kontergurke
Member
I think the "He didn't even invent the Metroidvania-style"-argument misses the point.
People don't want Iga back because he invented it, they want him back because he made games fans liked (mostly).
Also, to anyone saying "he's just copying SotN": Some might see this as a flaw, but there are many fans who would love another game like it, after such a long wait.
To get new Metroidvania games again, we wouldn't even need Iga, anyone at Konami could try to make them. But unfortunately, it seems like no one wants to.
So the question "Where's Iga?" actually always means "Where is the one guy from Konami that made those awesome SotN clones, because I want more of them?"
People don't want Iga back because he invented it, they want him back because he made games fans liked (mostly).
Also, to anyone saying "he's just copying SotN": Some might see this as a flaw, but there are many fans who would love another game like it, after such a long wait.
To get new Metroidvania games again, we wouldn't even need Iga, anyone at Konami could try to make them. But unfortunately, it seems like no one wants to.
So the question "Where's Iga?" actually always means "Where is the one guy from Konami that made those awesome SotN clones, because I want more of them?"
SolidSnakex
Member
But that still leaves an obvious hole in the handheld market, or even in the digital market. Mirror of Fate seemingly tanked at retail and didn't do too well among reviewers either. Order of Ecclesia and Portrait of Ruin were the lowest rated "IGAvania" games. By comparison, Mirror of Fate had a 72 average. At the very least it would seem like a good idea to allow him to continue to produce those games.
I thought both Portrait of Ruin and especially Circle of the Moon were well challenging. Portrait made it so you had to use the right kind of attack on the right enemy or you'd do very little damage.
Kontergurke
Member
Just wanted to say that all Castlevania games produced by Iga had at least one higher difficulty to unlock, which made the games considerably harder.
Portrait of Ruin even introduced the level cap, where you could choose the max level your characters would be able to reach in that playthrough. (OoE had this, too).
Of course, all Classicvanias are then clones of the first Castlevania.
The thing is, people use the word clone as if it were a bad thing. But it's just another way of saying "this game is in the same genre as that game."
When Doom created the FPS, nobody called them FPS, the games were all Doom-clones.
Likewise, SotN-clones are just games in the same genre (which still doesn't have its own name).
Shmuely Bully
Member
The classicvanias have a lot of different styles (compare: CV2, CV3, CV4, and Bloodlines), certainly by and large they're more diverse than the metroidvanias that followed after SoTN.
Both Aria/Dawn and Ecclesia had almost the exact gameplay systems (Sigils=Dominance + Holding Up) and HoD was a far inferior clone of SoTN including a number of the backgrounds. That covers 4 of the 6 right there. Iga didn't make CoTM, so that is 5 of the 6.
Portrait of Ruin is by far the most original thing he did on handhelds.
That doesn't sound accurate unless the final sales were a lot higher than I've seen reported since the numbers I saw were within a few months of its launch. You could actually be thinking DoS as well, since it had a budget re-release. The only budget release I know of for the GBA was the double pack and that didn't include CoTM.
72 isn't great, but it isn't terrible like some say either and the sales of Ecclesia were poor as well despite a much larger install base. I don't see any particularly compelling reason to believe Iga could improve the sales situation on handhelds. To be clear I used to be a huge fan of the guy and still appreciate him doing Chronicles and Dracula X Chronicles, but it's tough to argue he was good for the franchise's prospects.
snow in jamaica
Member
that sounds more like ecclesia than portrait. circle was a bit more challenging than most of them, yeah.
i don't think the hard modes did much until ecclesia (level cap raised difficulty/tedium by a lot but that's cheap
Didn't IGA have a much larger role in SotN than most hardcore fans give him credit for?
Didn't IGA have a much larger role in SotN than most hardcore fans give him credit for?
Wikipedia says so, but then the source says something like it's arguable Iga gave the game a lot of it's overall feel because he wrote the plot and did programming. Hagihara directed Rondo of Blood, which with SotN seems to be the best regarded game in the series. It's odd that fans have decided to deify Iga. Seems likely because he was still there making them and we needed someone to rally around.
MagnaderAlpha
Member
If anything, IGA needs to be tossed a bone and Konami's got to get him to head another 2D CV, maybe with a little MORE budget than they usually(as in USED) to be tossed. Something in the scale(and polish) of SotN, but with the moxy of OoE. No 2.5D, but something that ups the hand-drawn look of SotN to the next degree(don't think any of IGA's 2D vanias matched SotN as far as graphical quality is concerned).
Mercury Steam, they excel at the 3D style, but suck at 2D. They seem to be strong where IGA's team is weak, but weak where IGA's is strong. They'd compliment each other perfectly working on both styles separately(MS on 3D, IGA on 2D).
Mercury Steam, they excel at the 3D style, but suck at 2D. They seem to be strong where IGA's team is weak, but weak where IGA's is strong. They'd compliment each other perfectly working on both styles separately(MS on 3D, IGA on 2D).
cj_iwakura
Member
They had consistent quality, at least. I like all the Igavanias.
Yes I agree, they are mostly good games (especially Order of Ecclesia which imho 2nd best after the amazing SOTN) but I'm just saying that as producer for Konami he didn't do right to make the series bigger that what publishers want from their producers. his focus on the handhelds gave bad numbers (because of piracy on handhelds, western audience are mostly on consoles) then the Harmony of Despair and Judgment damaged the brand more. so I just get why Konami just don't want him on the series anymore (or on any big project)
It's just the same situation as Seabass (former PES producer) who also went into the Konami's bottomless basement of no return.
ToruGod is sorely missed. Imagine the man that did Rondo of Blood AND Symphony of the Night coming back for one last shot. I'd buy like 50 copies.
I remind you that IGAvania also includes
- Lamment of Innocence
- Curse of Darkness
- Judgment a.k.a where are my boobs.
- The Winner of Al Gore's annual Award for Excellence in recycling: Harmony of Despair
You know what's common between them? They are sub par. You know what else? They were made by IGA. You know what else? He didn't have a superior blueprint to follow and ended in failure.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
I think he could've stayed making the Vanias if only he didn't make that Wii Judgement game and that anime that never happened. Maybe it was the final straw for Konami.
If only. We could've been playing a 3D IgaVania right about now!
If only. We could've been playing a 3D IgaVania right about now!
And the fans too. We wanted heads rolling, it was humilliating. Rmemeber that you've been 5 years without a Symphony clone, but at judgment's time we were 11 years non stop with them and bad experiments in other gamplay modes. Ecclessia was very good yes, and Rebirth too, but by that time his fate was sealed. Harmony of Despair killed his last sigh of good will.
I don't think Konami will let him continue making Castlevania even if he kept in the 2D games only.
Konami want improves sales and brand recognition first and foremost and IGA 2Dvania werent doing that for them. same reasons why Seabass now is no more on PES and why they got rid of Akira Yamaoka (making decent games but losing sales and getting less popular). Judgement was the final blow but IGA was really doomed way before that.
Fourth Storm
Member
I was tired of the formula and personally hated Ecclesia (although it did have solid controls and some good bosses). His lack of level design was infuriating. I do wish Konami gave him a shot at a 2D 1999 game on 3DS. I miss Yamane's beats as well.
Fuck me. I want it.
IrishNinja
Member
so not here for igavania bashing
for real though, he works at konami. they don't really make games anymore, they just kill beloved studios.
for real though, he works at konami. they don't really make games anymore, they just kill beloved studios.
No offense taken.
â Narayan
Member
Couldn't hurt.
Diomedeskun
Member
Every time I go to Book Off and see how expensive the three games for DS are (especially Portrait, which seems to go for about 8000 yen most places lately) I remember what an amazing bunch of handheld adventures he was able to create. I have only played the demo for Mirror of Fate, and I expect I will eventually get one version or another of the full game, but it just lacks the appeal the (2D) Igavanias had for me.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I want a SotN-style Castlevania on console or PC (not handhelds) with UbiArt or Dragon's Crown-quality graphics, and Michiru Yamane composing. I don't care if it's Iga or not, but Castlevania deserves a game like that, with that level of polish.
Sigh... I can dream
Sigh... I can dream
Shmuely Bully
Member
MoF has very good/fun traversal and good atmosphere with a great 3D effect that actually converted me a little bit.
The core gameplay on the other hand is simple and doesn't change very much after you have most of Simon's abilities. Don't judge it by Deadly Waterfalls, but if you aren't into it after you have had the combat cross for awhile you probably won't be later on.
Basically don't go into it expecting anything particularly deep or long-lasting and you'll have more fun with it. It's pretty much classicvania with more upgrades and a metroidvania map.
AcademicSaucer
Member
∀ Narayan;99909056 said:
team him up with sakamoto and give them 5 million dollars, what can go wrong ?
LSauchelli
Member
Watch him later this year on Kickstarter with a new project: Transyilcastle
Dream game would be a collaboration between IGA and VanillaSoftware. Imagine a 2D CV game with Ayami Kojima's art drawn by VanillaSoftware...... That would be nuts.
Of course, it would be best if they do not follow the copy paste mechanic, and make each room in the castle compelling and unique.
Of course, it would be best if they do not follow the copy paste mechanic, and make each room in the castle compelling and unique.
IGA was also credited on Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth for WiiWare.
http://youtu.be/yaFYnioft7o
http://youtu.be/yaFYnioft7o
kunonabi
Member
it's nothing like a classicvania.
Shmuely Bully
Member
Really? Whip action, subweapons such as axes and holy water. Hit bars (also ones for bosses) instead of hit points. No equipment or real inventory screen. Bottomless pits and spikes that kill you if you touch them. Swinging with your whip across gaps too wide to jump across. Mermen that spring out of the water along with zombies, skeletons, and bats as enemies.
A vertically scrolling map where you have to fight off enemies and keep moving so as to not be insta-killed by an environmental object that is chasing you. How many classicvanias have you played exactly? Mirror of Fate is exactly like what you'd expect a classicvania with some nods to modern game design would be like, because that's what it is.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
Maybe only as a level designer and map designer. He's good with that.
D
Deleted member 74300
Unconfirmed Member
A 2D graphic Castlevania game for the 3DS would have been perfect. Just imagine the backgrounds with the 3D slider.
Also in my waking life. When did you play SotN?
I don't even care about that, and i've played both series. I wouldn't want him to direct one, but work on one? Yeah, definitely. His insight mixed with Nintendo's insight could be great when they combine insights on something like another game in that genre.
Like the hat?
Banned
The only castlevania games I like are the sotn-likes. The only exception is super castlevania4.
I think konami needs to count it's lucky stars that Kojima is sticking around, because really, what else do they have going on besides metal gear anymore?
I think konami needs to count it's lucky stars that Kojima is sticking around, because really, what else do they have going on besides metal gear anymore?
It must have been 3 years ago or so.
IIRC, I played IGAvanias in this order
Dawn of Sorrow -> Harmony Of Dissonance -> Aria of Sorrow -> Portrait of Ruin-> Order of Ecclesia -> SotN (as part of the Dracula Chronicles X)
At that point I had already explored so many castles that the lack of souls, glyphs or any other interesting mechanic made it seem really boring. Playing the amazing Rondo (my first classic Castlevania) right before it certainly didn't help.
What can you do when there's no concrete info? A thread can only have so many ''he's been demoted to cleaning toilets'' kind of responses.We have this thread at least a couple of times a year and they are usually disguised as "what is your favorite metroidvania" or "are we ever going to see another metroidvania?"
And the answer is always the same
Shmuely Bully
Member
SoTN still has the best music, transformations, controls, and weapons out of any of the metroidvanias. Messing around with souls/glyphs/cards/books is entirely unnecessary because Alucard can do everything with just his abilities and alternate weapon attacks. Aria came closest in terms of weapons and Ecclesia came closest in terms of controls.
There is also just a lot more to discover as far as secrets go than any of the other games. If anything I have always felt that the extra inventory juggling most of the others introduced hurt them.
The one place it didn't fare so well is difficulty, which is why I have a tough time deciding between it and CoTM as the best metroidvania.
IGA said a while back that the games sold well but as time went on the audience got a bit smaller and he seemed to equate that to the aging fan base. This is part of why he went with an anime style for DoS and PoR as he wanted to expand the appeal to a younger audience.
Judging from the backlash from western fans and the fact that was gone back on with OoE, I think he realized that was the wrong approach.