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What is Nintendo's most hardcore game?

I'd probably also say competitive online Pokemon, since it requires constant mind-games.

Style points for Wonderful 101, since I can't think of any other straight up character-action games this or last generation. Platinum doesn't mess around, it's got a huge learning curve, and is focused on teaching you to master the mechanics to get higher rankings.
 
Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr., Donkey Kong 3 and Mario Bros and all of Nintendo's pre-Famicom arcade games. They're considered hardcore and difficult for today's standards
 
Competitive Pokemon is nuts. EVs, IVs, natures, fucking math.
Smash is intense too.
Of course, The Wonderful 101 (which is a Nintendo IP for those wondering)
Kid Icarus Uprising on higher difficulties (I so want a Wii U version, or an updated one for New 3DS. Need that proper camera control.)
F-Zero of course.
Fire Emblem (excluding Casual mode in Awakening)
Donkey Kong Country both Rare and Retro
Grandmaster Galaxy Perfect Run in Super Mario Galaxy 2, and Champion's Road in 3D World.
 
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I'd say Smash and Pokemon.

They definitely have others, like Kid Icarus Uprising, Sin & Punishment, F-Zero, etc...

Then there are certain aspects of titles I would consider hardcore. Like the Champions Road in Super Mario 3D World and some of the content in NSMB U challenge modes.
 
Lot of people mentioning Pokémon here; I always knew there was a certain depth, but not to this degree.

Are there Pokémon streaming events alá EVO?
 
Nibel said:
Lot of people mentioning Pokémon here; I always knew there was a certain depth, but not to this degree.

Are there Pokémon streaming events alá EVO?
Click to expand...

There are tournaments. I'm not sure if they're streamed.
Nintendo could make mad bank streaming Pokemon tournaments though. Just like they stream Smash tourneys now.
 
Single player: Donkey Kong Country (Returns/Tropical Freeze). If you are a completionist, you will hate this game. Getting 200% is extremely difficult.
Multiplayer: Competitive Pokemon. It is very hard to master, due to its deep gameplay mechanics .
LeleSocho said:
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Oh.. wow...
 
Yeah, I would go with Smash and Pokemon for the competitive scene, but I cannot forget how many times I raged playing F-Zero, the GBA one. I didn't knew the series at the time, so when I got it I thought "nice, I love racing games". It all went south very fast.
 
F-Zero GX ( I would say X, but rubberband does not count)
Metroid (specially Echoes)
Sin & Punishment

Also Wave Race Blue Storm, controlling the jet ski in strom/high tide, without missing buoys, takes a lot of practice.
LegendofLex said:
They have a few persistently hardcore franchises: Metroid, F-Zero, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade Chronicles

But, really, the first Metroid is the answer.
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Xenoblade? persistently? It has only been one game! :P And it's not hard.
 
Jezan said:
Xenoblade? persistently? It has only been one game! :P And it's not hard.
Click to expand...

I'd consider having game systems that are incredibly difficult to fully understand "hard," even if the game throws more than enough equipment and experience at you to offset any of your own failings (unless you tackle the optional content).
 
Competitive pokemon.
I am legit scare to enter a match since it isn't about skills but it's about having the time to build a perfect team/stats to match up against other perfect team/stats.
You need to be hardcore to be able to commit that much time into the game.

Other Nintendo games? Just regular gaming skills should work.
 
Speaking of, I wonder how hardcore is Splatoon going to be in the competitive scene. There's clearly lots of potential there.
 
They've been mentioned plenty of times, but I would say F-Zero, Fire Emblem, or Pokemon.

Some other pretty hardcore games would be Metroid (original; far more difficult than Super Metroid) as well as Zelda II Adventure of Link.
 
Zelda II, the original Metroid, and Super Mario 2(Japan). Those three games will cause massive frustration to the point of controller throwing(if you're the raging type, that is).
 
Competitive Pokemon seems mostly like a time sink; by far the biggest element is breeding the desired Pokemon and levelling accordingly. To draw a parallel--in a CCG, skill comes from knowing how to assemble and play a deck not from the difficulty of finding the cards you want, and the meta game has even evolved around allowing people to simulate cards that are onerously expensive or hard to get.

Not to say there isn't depth in Pokemon, but rather that the most identifiable element is the time sink: even the OP notes this.
 
I wish in threads like this people would mention a mechanic that felt dense or very demanding.

I see mentions for Pokemon and Metroid but not the other games.
 
F-Zero is the correct answer.

Getting into competitive Pokemon is easier than trying to master a relative simple tech like the quick turn in F-Zero GX so you have a chance at not placing in the bottom 10 on Master GP.
 
Pokemon. Yeah Smash is competitive but no where near the level that pokemon is.

Pokemon requires a massive timesink to even touch low-tier people
 
Stumpokapow said:
Competitive Pokemon seems mostly like a time sink; by far the biggest element is breeding the desired Pokemon and levelling accordingly. To draw a parallel--in a CCG, skill comes from knowing how to assemble and play a deck not from the difficulty of finding the cards you want, and the meta game has even evolved around allowing people to simulate cards that are onerously expensive or hard to get.

Not to say there isn't depth in Pokemon, but rather that the most identifiable element is the time sink: even the OP notes this.
Click to expand...

Eh, there's a massive amount of depth even in emulator play, just look at Smogon articles for Pokemon which all assume you have IVs properly set up. I don't think most people consider the time sink a relevant part of the actual complexity, though it is nice when Gamefreak adds features like the Destiny Knot to make breeding easier if you want to play on cart instead of emulator.
 
In terms of "most mature":
Eternal Darkness.

In terms of difficulty:
Probably Super Mario Bros. 2j (Lost Levels) EDIT: Oh, also F-Zero GX, because DAMN!!!

In terms of "appealing to the core gamer audience":
Metroid Prime, Eternal Darkness

In terms of competitiveness:
Pokémon, Mario Kart and Super Smash Bros

In terms of graphics:
Metroid Prime, Super Smash Bros. since Melee and basically every 3D Mario platformer since Sunshine, Mario Kart 8

In terms of story:
Xenoblade and the complete Mother/Earthbound series

In terms of "im in ur fort snatching exclusives":
Bayonetta 2 and Wonderful 101. And maybe Devil's Third, if it turns out to actually be good.
 
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