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What Is The Future of 3D Mario?
- Thread starter apana
- Start date
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
zoukka said:
In the 3DS Iwata Asks videos released at E3 Mario was one of the prime examples Miyamoto used for the advantages of depth perception in games.
Eggplant Wizard
Member
I loved the Galaxy games, but I'd like a return to the 64/Sunshine-style design. I don't think the issue is that linearly designed levels are inherently better than open worlds. They were just so much more well designed in Galaxy that it became hard to imagine how open worlds could be better. I'd like to see what kind of crazy things they could do with the old style, now that the Galaxy style has come pretty close to perfection.
someguyinahat
Member
A full-colour port of VB Wario Land.
grap3fruitman said:
It seems that your basic fundamental failure to even whiff the point of what I was saying really just displays the kneejerk nature of your response.
The diversity we were discussing is in level design. And since level design is the #1 most important thing of any platformer, surprise, Galaxy is far and away the greatest 3D platformer!
grap3fruitman said:
You want some shitty archaic adventure game with less platforming elements like Mario 64, and I want a fucking amazing and sublime pure platformer like Super Mario Galaxy 2. I understand the difference.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Haunted said:
Didn't Miyamoto hint at them working on Mario 3DS in an E3 interview somewhere? Otherwise, as long as the genius level design keeps flowing, I think EAD Tokyo can be trusted in knowing when to depart from the Galaxy structure to some new overarching concept.
revolverjgw
Member
I have no idea what to expect and I don't know how they can top Galaxy. Besides being the two best video games ever made, the formula is just so damn... enabling. They can do anything with this concept. I guess I would sort of like a return to some more exploration/open-world stuff, but that could also feel like a big comedown from the non-stop barrage of ideas in SMG.
I think the star missions, or "levels," should be linear like Galaxy, as I agree the tightly focused platforming serves the gameplay best... But I think the overworld should be as huge as Sunshine's Delfino Plaza, with ONE major difference: at any time you can instantly access a Level Select screen.
See, Starship Mario was great in how it allowed you to quickly access levels, but it was a lifeless overworld in and of itself. I don't want want to give up the Level Select, but why does it and a robust overworld have to be mutually exclusive? Hint -- they don't.
Having a Delfino-grade overworld would allow players to have fun simply running, jumping and wall-jumping around. At any time you could hit Start, or head over to one of the copious Warp Pads littered around the overworld, and access the Level Select, just like Starship Mario. But unlike Starship Mario, if you wanted to explore, there'd be something to explore. All the convenience of Starship Mario; all the depth of Delfino and Peach's Castle. It would preserve the sense of exploration, of adventure. And it would anchor the game in a sense of place that was sorely lacking from SMG2.
Frankly, I've already forgotten most of SMG2. It's fun when you play it, but when I look back on it, I can't tell you the name of a single level, or what levels were clustered in which worlds. They're just a bunch of disassociated realms, each one over before you know it. It makes the game as a whole feel fragmented, unfocused, and less fulfilling. Though I think SMG2 had better levels, I think SMG1 still feels more EPIC because as unfunctional as SMG1's overworld was, at least it had a sense of place that created a warm, central core to the whole experience. A place with magic.
I also think that, in addition to having a huge overworld (one that again, has Level Select available anywhere at anytime), there should be some cohesion to the "worlds" in which the "levels" are clustered. For instance, the last world could be a "dark" world in which each of the seven Koopalings -- and Bowser -- have their own level. Each level would be a riff on the castle/haunted theme. Perhaps each Koopaling has one key to the Bowser galaxy at the center. Defeating them all opens the way to the final boss, creating a sense of progression and -- wait for it -- adventure. Like you're actually going someplace.
I think this is a good compromise between the two styles.
See, Starship Mario was great in how it allowed you to quickly access levels, but it was a lifeless overworld in and of itself. I don't want want to give up the Level Select, but why does it and a robust overworld have to be mutually exclusive? Hint -- they don't.
Having a Delfino-grade overworld would allow players to have fun simply running, jumping and wall-jumping around. At any time you could hit Start, or head over to one of the copious Warp Pads littered around the overworld, and access the Level Select, just like Starship Mario. But unlike Starship Mario, if you wanted to explore, there'd be something to explore. All the convenience of Starship Mario; all the depth of Delfino and Peach's Castle. It would preserve the sense of exploration, of adventure. And it would anchor the game in a sense of place that was sorely lacking from SMG2.
Frankly, I've already forgotten most of SMG2. It's fun when you play it, but when I look back on it, I can't tell you the name of a single level, or what levels were clustered in which worlds. They're just a bunch of disassociated realms, each one over before you know it. It makes the game as a whole feel fragmented, unfocused, and less fulfilling. Though I think SMG2 had better levels, I think SMG1 still feels more EPIC because as unfunctional as SMG1's overworld was, at least it had a sense of place that created a warm, central core to the whole experience. A place with magic.
I also think that, in addition to having a huge overworld (one that again, has Level Select available anywhere at anytime), there should be some cohesion to the "worlds" in which the "levels" are clustered. For instance, the last world could be a "dark" world in which each of the seven Koopalings -- and Bowser -- have their own level. Each level would be a riff on the castle/haunted theme. Perhaps each Koopaling has one key to the Bowser galaxy at the center. Defeating them all opens the way to the final boss, creating a sense of progression and -- wait for it -- adventure. Like you're actually going someplace.
I think this is a good compromise between the two styles.
I want a classical style, Super Mario World style game now. No rehashed levels, just levels in 3d, pure platforming, nothing controller-related (enough with shaking and twirling..) except for bonus levels, and so on.
I want a pure Mario adventure. While Galaxy was great; to me, it feels like a spinoff from the main line of mario games, just like Mario Sunshine.
I want a pure Mario adventure. While Galaxy was great; to me, it feels like a spinoff from the main line of mario games, just like Mario Sunshine.
No idea of what it could be exactly, but Mario 3DS is very likely the next 3D Mario game.
I like the SMG2 formula: hub and 3D worlds a la Super Mario 64/Galaxy, but also some levels with more 2D gameplay.
I would like a more balanced game between 3D and 2D, with more additions from the New SMBs, especially the enhanced multiplayer. Screw 3D OR 2D, just bring us all the stuff in order to serve us your New Super Mario World!
I like the SMG2 formula: hub and 3D worlds a la Super Mario 64/Galaxy, but also some levels with more 2D gameplay.
I would like a more balanced game between 3D and 2D, with more additions from the New SMBs, especially the enhanced multiplayer. Screw 3D OR 2D, just bring us all the stuff in order to serve us your New Super Mario World!
Funny, I was asking myself a similar question earlier. I just don't know how Nintendo will ace the Galaxy games, they just seem to be the zenith of set piece platforming (i.e. platforming that revolves around overcoming static structures with given rules with just running and jumping). Now if the next Mario game revolves around an Epic Mickey interactive design (actively changing the level design to varying degrees by player choice) while emphasizing the same degree and variety of design that the Galaxy series had, well then there's infinite directions to go in that case.
Knowing Nintendo, Shiggy & EAD Tokyo however, they'll find a way to slap me in the mouth for ever thinking about how they can out-Mario a Mario game and make me like it with the next game in the series. :lol
Knowing Nintendo, Shiggy & EAD Tokyo however, they'll find a way to slap me in the mouth for ever thinking about how they can out-Mario a Mario game and make me like it with the next game in the series. :lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-sN4blNCK4
Would've loved to see that being the HUB.
Would've loved to see that being the HUB.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
I think the next "3D Mario" will be New Super Mario Bros. 3DS from EAD Group No. 4 (Hiroyuki Kimura). Honestly. it's where the MONEY IS.
As for as the Galaxy/Sunshine 3D Mario. I think EAD Group Tokyo is probably going to take a break from that franchise until sometime in the next main console cycle. I just want to see the next game(s) from this talented group. Resurrected franchise? New franchise?
As for as the Galaxy/Sunshine 3D Mario. I think EAD Group Tokyo is probably going to take a break from that franchise until sometime in the next main console cycle. I just want to see the next game(s) from this talented group. Resurrected franchise? New franchise?
AceBandage
Banned
Hand Drawn 3D models and world.
Dream Setting (Nemo meets Matrix).
Dream Setting (Nemo meets Matrix).
Always-honest
Banned
i think both galaxies are WAAAY better than Mario 64, but i also loved M64 to death.
I do think Galaxy is done now.
I just really really hope the games will be in HD from now on.
The gameplay will be brilliant either way.
Ugh, i hate that. No thanx.
I do think Galaxy is done now.
I just really really hope the games will be in HD from now on.
The gameplay will be brilliant either way.
AceBandage said:
Ugh, i hate that. No thanx.
Amir0x said:
Garbage has more diversity than a ham steak.
But I digress. I'm not very passionate about this discussion, I will buy Mario games if they are on the level of Galaxy. If they are on the level of Mario 64 with it's expansive worlds that thoroughly explores a theme then it's even more tantalizing.
Cygnus X-1
Member
I want to be surprised once again. No Mario 64 clones. Possibly no Mario Galaxy clones (but about this: I would not be unhappy). Something innovative as Galaxy was, but of course different.
NeonZ
Member
I think the Galaxy style can still be improved for the next 3d Mario. Some points of it were held back by ties to the SM64 design style.
Eliminate "Star" collection, or, at least, change them basically just to "goal posts", like the end level marks (flags or goals) in the 2d games. In Galaxy 1, the stars seemed to be basically a leftover of the Mario 64 game design, it's about time they drop them, or, maybe not drop. Stars can give some variation in challenges aside from "Go from point A to B", but change them to a secondary role (like the post game
in Galaxy 2).
For a visual style, especially if this is a game for the next Nintendo home console, they probably can change the scenario back to Earth/Mushroom Kingdom, but that'd be only a matter of visual style change, creating busier backgrounds around the levels, but the levels themselves still should keep the same general style of Galaxy's, and not go back to Mario 64's style.
Personally, I'll never agree with people who say that going over and over to the same places creates a more "adventurous" feel. An adventure usually involved a hero traveling through various locations, not getting stuck somewhere for a long time and repeatedly going through the same locations over and over.
Eliminate "Star" collection, or, at least, change them basically just to "goal posts", like the end level marks (flags or goals) in the 2d games. In Galaxy 1, the stars seemed to be basically a leftover of the Mario 64 game design, it's about time they drop them, or, maybe not drop. Stars can give some variation in challenges aside from "Go from point A to B", but change them to a secondary role (like the post game
bonus stars
For a visual style, especially if this is a game for the next Nintendo home console, they probably can change the scenario back to Earth/Mushroom Kingdom, but that'd be only a matter of visual style change, creating busier backgrounds around the levels, but the levels themselves still should keep the same general style of Galaxy's, and not go back to Mario 64's style.
Personally, I'll never agree with people who say that going over and over to the same places creates a more "adventurous" feel. An adventure usually involved a hero traveling through various locations, not getting stuck somewhere for a long time and repeatedly going through the same locations over and over.
redbarchetta
Banned
SalsaShark said:
Let's not be telling others what they think, k?
SalsaShark said:Yup.
I mean Mario is all about platforming. Its ussually more fun when you break it down to the basics. There's a reason why these:
were the most enjoyable levels in Sunshine.
They indeed were the most enjoyable levels, but it wasn't because of the platforming. Instead, it was because they removed most of what was wrong with Sunshine: Poor gameplay mechanics (Flood), uninspired levels, unclear objectives (which is a problem when there's only one objective available at a time, unlike Mario 64), among myriad other reasons. IMO, of course.
Cygnus X-1
Member
enzo_gt said:
Well, if it can comfort you, Zelda fans usually are much worse.
RustyNails
Member
Mario needs to die. Enough.
redbarchetta
Banned
Amir0x said:
Your point is contingent on the belief that diversity automatically lends itself to better level design, when the two are really independent of one another. Great level design can be enhanced by diversity, but is not a prerequisite.
The original Mario Bros. has, what, about 4-6 level templates (and mostly only visual distinctions at that)? And yet it still stands--for me at least--as one of the greatest platformers of all time.
RustyNails
Member
Unless its a violent, gritty reboot of the original about an ex-plumber on meth, I'm not buying.DR2K said:
What he said looks more like a Mario remake for 3DS.Tim the Wiz said:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=251880
TestOfTide
Banned
Amir0x said:
Yes, but one of the appealing parts of SM64 was that it was somewhat like a 3D version of genesis sonic games in that it had many paths to the same goal. THe preoblem was that the limitations of the N64 made it so that the paths were not too varied in their methods, but with a console in the power range of 360 it would be possible to have something like SM64 but with the varied levels design of SMG.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Maybe a Jak & Daxter (1 and 1 only) type of Mario could work. Travel through Mushroom Kingdom and fuck shit up! Zelda meets Jak & Daxter meets Super Mario 3. Endless possibilities
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
The thing that was great about SM64 was that you could complete a level in 5-10 minutes or spend 20-30 minutes on it if you wanted to collect all the stars. I wouldn't call it open world so much as I would say it had multiple paths. They encouraged you to explore. At the end of the day, I suppose they don't have to make it a Mario game, but I'd like them to take those ideas of exploration from SM64 and make another game out of it. Maybe a 3D DK game would be better suited for that type of level design. I like the Galaxy games as much as the next guy, but it would be a shame if they didn't continue to use what was established in SM64 in some fashion. It's still a great game to this day imo and I'd buy a remake for Wii or 3DS with SMS or SMG quality graphics day one.
VGChampion
Member
I want to go back to the Mushroom Kingdom in a 3D Mario. I liked going on Vacation, Space was fun, but let me hang out in my country.
And it's funny. Playing the secret cave levels in Sunshine were my most hated memories from that game. After seeing how much love they got here on GAF I went back to try them out thinking maybe I was wrong... but no, I still can't handle them. I don't know what it is but I find them extremely hard and not that fun.
And it's funny. Playing the secret cave levels in Sunshine were my most hated memories from that game. After seeing how much love they got here on GAF I went back to try them out thinking maybe I was wrong... but no, I still can't handle them. I don't know what it is but I find them extremely hard and not that fun.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
The Sunshine "secrets" and the Galaxy stages are a pretty good direction to go. Abstract shapes creating platforming challenges in a 3D plane. Even Mirror's Edge used this to good effect in DLC. Galaxy's gravity mechanic was just a means to an end, but there's still plenty more design space that can be mined in this area.