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What it is that makes Zelda so good?
- Thread starter oni-link
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BetterThanNothing
Member
Nostalgia, at this point.
Aside from the lovely aesthetics, the wonderful world made even easier to relate to through a silent protagonist, it would have the be the sense of progression. There are so many instances of the game where you either know for certain or have a good idea that you can return, and you eventually do in style. Having something thwart you completely only to return and surpass it with ease is something else.
Aside from the lovely aesthetics, the wonderful world made even easier to relate to through a silent protagonist, it would have the be the sense of progression. There are so many instances of the game where you either know for certain or have a good idea that you can return, and you eventually do in style. Having something thwart you completely only to return and surpass it with ease is something else.
Trilobit
Absolutely Cozy
The childlike sense of adventure.
WW for example gave me an adventure that was reminiscent of my own little "journeys" when I was a kid. And it is without gore and graphic violence. You feel like you are cast into this quite dangerous world, which still adheres to a child's naive worldview and promises to give you amazing discoveries.
WW for example gave me an adventure that was reminiscent of my own little "journeys" when I was a kid. And it is without gore and graphic violence. You feel like you are cast into this quite dangerous world, which still adheres to a child's naive worldview and promises to give you amazing discoveries.
rottendevice
Member
I think I remember hearing on Retronauts that Zelda was Miyamoto's take on the RPG genre. Specifically, Miyamoto didn't like RPGs, but he realized they were really popular.
So you have one of the best game developers ever working on something similar to one of the best genres in video games. Sounds like a recipe for success.
So you have one of the best game developers ever working on something similar to one of the best genres in video games. Sounds like a recipe for success.
Yes, that's what I call an "innocent" fantasy. I think this is one of the more important points that distinguish Nintendo games from all others.
NintendosBooger
Member
It's a franchise that Nintendo actually cares for. That helps.
Minimalist lore and character profile. Grand exploration. The story is interwoven with the world and its history.
Minimalist lore and character profile. Grand exploration. The story is interwoven with the world and its history.
potatohead
Member
Expert responsive gameplay and level design, and building a whole world in which using your new found items and equipment lets you further and incrementally explore the game world and its secrets.
its the premise thats carried out to perfection. you are a boy who saves the world by growing stronger but loz games never have you leveling up or anything like in other games. you grow stronger by learning, getting new items, and then progressing. the world is also genius and the idea of dungeons is so gamey that it never loses its luster. theyre video games that know theyre games and embrace that
petran79
Banned
During the NES and SNES years (pre-Pokemon era), Zelda games were popular but they lived in Mario's shadow, except perhaps the early Gameboy games.
But with Ocarina of Time (#1 selling N64 game), series became the most popular Nintendo franchise and this trend remains till today. During the transition to 3D, Zelda games expanded greatly in the visual narrative, direction and lore. While Mario more or less remained static. Character expressions in the later Zelda games were also some of the best in recent video games. Hence why Wind Waker did not fit to everyone's taste. That game took time back to the early more cartoony Zelda's.
Since I prefer gameplay and have seen enough of animation, I like the early Zelda games more. But the new games are art and I could just gaze through the villages and settings without even playing. Just listening to the music and interacting.
But with Ocarina of Time (#1 selling N64 game), series became the most popular Nintendo franchise and this trend remains till today. During the transition to 3D, Zelda games expanded greatly in the visual narrative, direction and lore. While Mario more or less remained static. Character expressions in the later Zelda games were also some of the best in recent video games. Hence why Wind Waker did not fit to everyone's taste. That game took time back to the early more cartoony Zelda's.
Since I prefer gameplay and have seen enough of animation, I like the early Zelda games more. But the new games are art and I could just gaze through the villages and settings without even playing. Just listening to the music and interacting.
Earthpainting
Member
I like games that allow me to interact with the game world in multiple and meaningful ways. Zelda delivers this in the form of its items. These items have a base functionality, and then the games keep expanding on their implementations in the form of puzzles.
To take a pretty simple example, in some of these games you obtain a pair of Iron Boots. They're just boots, but they're laced with iron parts to make them pretty heavy. They can be used to increase your weight, so your increased ballast can push down stronger buttons. You can use them to make yourself sink to the bottom of water pools. They can help anchor you down when you are trying to pull something heavier than your original mass. They can prevent you from being blown away when faced with strong gusts of wind. You can stick to magnetised surfaces. All of these little bonus functionalities and puzzles that these items bring with it make the world feel really interactive.
My favourite Zelda games are the ones that do this the most.
To take a pretty simple example, in some of these games you obtain a pair of Iron Boots. They're just boots, but they're laced with iron parts to make them pretty heavy. They can be used to increase your weight, so your increased ballast can push down stronger buttons. You can use them to make yourself sink to the bottom of water pools. They can help anchor you down when you are trying to pull something heavier than your original mass. They can prevent you from being blown away when faced with strong gusts of wind. You can stick to magnetised surfaces. All of these little bonus functionalities and puzzles that these items bring with it make the world feel really interactive.
My favourite Zelda games are the ones that do this the most.
FreedomFighter
Member
That intangible Nintendo magic.
A robust, living fantasy world to traverse in adventure to overcome cleverly crafted puzzles, enemies and dungeons. The game is built on storytelling in game mechanics, side quests and interactions with NPCs. The music and sound effects are used to perfection in leitmotif to signal and add tension when the player is in danger, celebrate the triumph of finding a significant item, etc.
OrbitalBeard
Member
This isn't true at all. For starters, OoT isn't the best selling N64 game. And Mario is still far more popular than Zelda has ever been.
To me, it's:
- Level design. There's nothing quite like a good Zelda dungeon, and most RPGs aren't even trying to do something similar.
- Fun items that open up the world and have more than one purpose. Though actually, I think Metroid does this one a little better.
- There actually aren't that many games that follow its formula, so it still offers something distinctive (even while some have gotten impatient with Nintendo not shaking up the formula more).
- Balance between a variety of different gameplay elements. Sure you can go by each part of the gameplay and find something other games do better individually - combat, sidequests, exploration, etc. But there aren't very many that are good (even if not the best) at all of the things Zelda does.
- A great mix of seriousness and fairy-tale whimsy, which has gotten less and less common in the game industry.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
They're a perfect blend of RPG, Action/Adventure, Metroidvania and platformer.
To me Zelda has been in a steady decline in recent times, hand holding, linear dungeons, brain-dead difficulty and overall a sense of "been there, done that" over and over.
TP and SS are pretty bad videogames in general, and let not even talk of the DS ones. (I guess ALBW was fine, but nothing exceptional)
TP and SS are pretty bad videogames in general, and let not even talk of the DS ones. (I guess ALBW was fine, but nothing exceptional)
It's a mixture of several elements. I doubt I could be exhaustive even if I tried, so let me just give a few reasons the series is near and dear to my heart.
The Zelda games all have a very simple premise at their core, but around that are strewn a large number of major and minor narratives with unique characters and dilemmas. These serve two primary purposes. Many of these optional side-quests provide you with rewards that can make your journey easier (like heart pieces, masks, treasure maps, larger bags, bottles, etc.), but they also give these games a ton of charm through their loveable and often goofy characters. The writing in the Zelda franchise can be very simplistic, but often turns out to be incredibly effective, as well.
There is a real sense of discovery and adventure. The best Zelda games require you to figure out not necessarily where you're supposed to go, but how to get there. You may need to do something back in town or explore a cave in the wild in order to get an item that's required in order to advance. This is reinforced by the fact that most entries in the series have a big, overarching theme that dominates overworld progression (like the 3-day cycle in Majora's Mask, the world switching in ALttP / ALBW / OoA / OoS, the Great Sea in The Wind Waker, and so forth).
The combat ranges from moderately easy to punishingly difficult (especially in the GB titles), but it is always satisfying. Sometimes, an enemy's difficulty doesn't arise from execution, but from figuring out how to tackle it. You're rewarded with visual and audio cues when your attacks connect or when enemy bodies disappear in an explosion of smoke and colour. Furthermore, enemies are visually stimulating, which only amplifies the feeling of gratification when you win in combat.
One obvious thing to mention are the dungeons, both proper and minor ones you may encounter throughout a game. You could easily create threads about dungeon design in the Legend of Zelda series, dungeon design in individual games, or (in some cases) even individual Zelda dungeons. The most basic ones serve as a neat little distraction, while the best of the bunch are immensely engaging puzzles. Puzzle-solving and exploration are what make the Zelda games adventures, and you are rewarded for thinking about your environment and the tools at your disposal.
Lastly, I feel most (if not all) Zelda games are very aesthetically pleasing, which (the level design aside) is the main reason they age so well. The entries that tend to be remembered the least fondly are the ones that have less inspired visual designs, while games like Link's Awakening or Majora's Mask will always have a timeless look to me in spite of the technical limitations of their respective systems. Another big part of this are the absolutely sublime scores that accompany each individual game. It is completely impossible for me to passingly experience a Zelda game without humming or whistling along to whatever track is playing at the moment.
These are just a few things I personally appreciate about the Zelda franchise. The various entries are not always revolutionary or ground-breaking in their design choices (although the overall effect the series has had on its genre(s) and the industry in general cannot be denied), but the execution of their core principles is often as close to perfection as one might expect video games to get.
The Zelda games all have a very simple premise at their core, but around that are strewn a large number of major and minor narratives with unique characters and dilemmas. These serve two primary purposes. Many of these optional side-quests provide you with rewards that can make your journey easier (like heart pieces, masks, treasure maps, larger bags, bottles, etc.), but they also give these games a ton of charm through their loveable and often goofy characters. The writing in the Zelda franchise can be very simplistic, but often turns out to be incredibly effective, as well.
There is a real sense of discovery and adventure. The best Zelda games require you to figure out not necessarily where you're supposed to go, but how to get there. You may need to do something back in town or explore a cave in the wild in order to get an item that's required in order to advance. This is reinforced by the fact that most entries in the series have a big, overarching theme that dominates overworld progression (like the 3-day cycle in Majora's Mask, the world switching in ALttP / ALBW / OoA / OoS, the Great Sea in The Wind Waker, and so forth).
The combat ranges from moderately easy to punishingly difficult (especially in the GB titles), but it is always satisfying. Sometimes, an enemy's difficulty doesn't arise from execution, but from figuring out how to tackle it. You're rewarded with visual and audio cues when your attacks connect or when enemy bodies disappear in an explosion of smoke and colour. Furthermore, enemies are visually stimulating, which only amplifies the feeling of gratification when you win in combat.
One obvious thing to mention are the dungeons, both proper and minor ones you may encounter throughout a game. You could easily create threads about dungeon design in the Legend of Zelda series, dungeon design in individual games, or (in some cases) even individual Zelda dungeons. The most basic ones serve as a neat little distraction, while the best of the bunch are immensely engaging puzzles. Puzzle-solving and exploration are what make the Zelda games adventures, and you are rewarded for thinking about your environment and the tools at your disposal.
Lastly, I feel most (if not all) Zelda games are very aesthetically pleasing, which (the level design aside) is the main reason they age so well. The entries that tend to be remembered the least fondly are the ones that have less inspired visual designs, while games like Link's Awakening or Majora's Mask will always have a timeless look to me in spite of the technical limitations of their respective systems. Another big part of this are the absolutely sublime scores that accompany each individual game. It is completely impossible for me to passingly experience a Zelda game without humming or whistling along to whatever track is playing at the moment.
These are just a few things I personally appreciate about the Zelda franchise. The various entries are not always revolutionary or ground-breaking in their design choices (although the overall effect the series has had on its genre(s) and the industry in general cannot be denied), but the execution of their core principles is often as close to perfection as one might expect video games to get.
Pretty catch-all question for a complex series, OP.
I'm not sure about this.
- there are plenty of huge stretches of The Witcher 3 where there is nothing but countryside and you can naturally come upon caves, castles, huts and whathave you.
- some of TW3's best moments are when you just finish a huge quest, have no pressing task at hand, and just saunter out onto a huge vista/plain and take it all in.
The space is there, perhaps you just never took the time to see it
I agree that a lot of Zelda's strength is in its purity, though.
I'm not sure about this.
- there are plenty of huge stretches of The Witcher 3 where there is nothing but countryside and you can naturally come upon caves, castles, huts and whathave you.
- some of TW3's best moments are when you just finish a huge quest, have no pressing task at hand, and just saunter out onto a huge vista/plain and take it all in.
The space is there, perhaps you just never took the time to see it
I agree that a lot of Zelda's strength is in its purity, though.
dampflokfreund
Banned
For me its the atmosphere combined with music. I really like it when you have a difference between light and dark, happy and sad moments. It makes the world feel alive. Thats why Majoras Mask is my favorite Zelda and the Shadow Temple my favorite dungeon in OoT
Yeah, this is another way to put it, I really love that aspect about Zelda games. However, I think Zelda games progressively got more and more kid friendly over the years and I hope Zelda U will deliver finally some dark moments again.
Also dungeons, sidequests and the story is important in Zelda for me.
Yeah, this is another way to put it, I really love that aspect about Zelda games. However, I think Zelda games progressively got more and more kid friendly over the years and I hope Zelda U will deliver finally some dark moments again.
Also dungeons, sidequests and the story is important in Zelda for me.
I think this is an important aspect.
I started playing OoT for the first time a few months ago and I literally couldn't believe how perfectly and organically they get you to interact with the game world. Here I am playing a game 20 years after release and it is blowing my mind.
"Hah, I can grab on to chickens! I wonder how I can reach that platform over there. Well running of ledges makes you jump, so... holy fuck"
"Hmm I need this certain item. Well, I guess I'll explore a little. Oh, what's down here... Ooh, another passage... Hey, there's the item! ... How the fuck did they guide me into finding this"
I'm hoping BotW takes this to the next level. In the sense that it will be exactly as emergent, but now not just hand-crafted; now every situation will have a bunch of solutions and you can think laterally to get through it.
DarkConfidant
Member
- The good ones have a great sense of pacing, which is managed by an ebb and flow cycle of "gear-gates" and dungeons.
- The dungeons have very good, and simple designs. In the good dungeons, every room is design with a challenge of how to clear it.
- The gear that you receive is actually fun to use, and makes you feel more capable as a character, who usually begins as a pretty powerless kid. This provides a sense of progression even if you haven't cleared the next dungeon yet. It also gives you a reason to reexplore areas that you could not pass before.
- Finally the overworld normally feels bigger than it actually is, and is able to give you the feeling that you're exploring the countryside and mountains in some far away land. They are normally littered with optional secrets. This makes them feel more like a large world rather than the tiny highways that they actually are.
It doesn't hurt that the music is pretty good, too, and they give you a sword. A freakin sword!
Simbabbad
Member
You nailed it.
This is probably why Chibi-Robo on GameCube reminded me constantly of Zelda, not only the gameplay and sense of exploration was actually quite similar, but the "child exploring/viewpoint" element was there full force.
This is probably why the "darker" Zelda games or the ones with more adult stories, such as Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword, don't work as well as some others.
All that being said... there are actually some weak entries into the franchise.
I like this description. The series is in no way a monolith. Just between the classic top down games vs the 3D games there are so many differences between titles in terms of gameplay, but this general theme of childlike adventure is pretty universal.
Zelda is one of the few series that really captures that childlike sense of wonder and awe at exploring a world. I think in large part due to its presentation. Silent protagonist, simple stories with, generally, minimal narrative interference, but they still have proper stories with easily identifiable beginning middle and end and major characters you can identify with. It let's you enter this world and share in the experience without demanding much from you.
MiamiWesker
Member
To me it's everything a video game should be. We live in an age where game mechanics are starting to be stripped, a lot of becoming automatic, story is becoming more important and as a result I feel great gameplay is lacking. My favorite genre is action adventure, there is nothing better than a mix of action, puzzles and exploration. Those are my pillars for gameplay greatness. There is no franchise that mixes those elements together better than Zelda, and most don't even come close to offering such a huge adventure.
Sure combat isn't the best but it's fun, often times acting as a sort of mini puzzle on its own. Combine the sword play with all the gadgets you get and you have a substansial varied arsenal to mess with. All the various items add new gameplay mechanics constantly and make you aware of the game world in way other games never do. Play witcher 3 and tell me you ever cared what's in that tree or paid attention to the world, you didn't have to because everything was highlighted with markers and all so strict, absolutely no room for true exploration and discovery.
Zelda worlds are playgrounds filled with combat sections, puzzles, and things to find. That felling of I see that heart but how do I get there is one of the best in gaming. It constantly surprises the player with new gameplay moments, this is not a game where you just do the same thing over again. One moment you can be a wolf, next on a horseback battle, then riding a flying creature playing a mini game, or go fishing, play a carnival game. It's a constant stream of variety.
Then there are the dungeons which are unmatched in gaming. There is nothing out there as well designed as a Zelda dungeon. Most games slap a few random hallways together, put some tough monsters in and some big guy to fight at the end, boom dungeon. Every Zelda dungeon is expertly crafted to create a pure gaming experience, it's when all the elements come together perfectly. The new item in the dungeons opens the game to all new puzzles. The boss battle is usually epic in scale. Even with this series becoming formulaic over the last few games the dungeons are still the best thing in gaming.
It's a franchise that cares about gameplay above everything else. It values what gaming should be, giving the player interesting things to do constantly, surpirse the player with what they can DO, not watch, not be a passive participant but actually control and play.
It's the king for me, the franchise I measure all others up to.
Sure combat isn't the best but it's fun, often times acting as a sort of mini puzzle on its own. Combine the sword play with all the gadgets you get and you have a substansial varied arsenal to mess with. All the various items add new gameplay mechanics constantly and make you aware of the game world in way other games never do. Play witcher 3 and tell me you ever cared what's in that tree or paid attention to the world, you didn't have to because everything was highlighted with markers and all so strict, absolutely no room for true exploration and discovery.
Zelda worlds are playgrounds filled with combat sections, puzzles, and things to find. That felling of I see that heart but how do I get there is one of the best in gaming. It constantly surprises the player with new gameplay moments, this is not a game where you just do the same thing over again. One moment you can be a wolf, next on a horseback battle, then riding a flying creature playing a mini game, or go fishing, play a carnival game. It's a constant stream of variety.
Then there are the dungeons which are unmatched in gaming. There is nothing out there as well designed as a Zelda dungeon. Most games slap a few random hallways together, put some tough monsters in and some big guy to fight at the end, boom dungeon. Every Zelda dungeon is expertly crafted to create a pure gaming experience, it's when all the elements come together perfectly. The new item in the dungeons opens the game to all new puzzles. The boss battle is usually epic in scale. Even with this series becoming formulaic over the last few games the dungeons are still the best thing in gaming.
It's a franchise that cares about gameplay above everything else. It values what gaming should be, giving the player interesting things to do constantly, surpirse the player with what they can DO, not watch, not be a passive participant but actually control and play.
It's the king for me, the franchise I measure all others up to.
Twilight Princess was a far batter game than Wind Waker
imo 
I even liked the long intro section
Exactly. My holy shit moment in OoT was discovering that you can cut signposts in half which renders them unreadable. Next you realize that the shape of the resulting planks depends on the angle of the sword slash, which means it's not a pre-determined animation. And then I noticed a suspicious one sitting alone in front of a small body of water, I thought let's hack it down to see what happens: if you hit it right so the plank lands in the water it will interact with it and float around (!)
I had the same type of thought process, I find it fascinating how they manage to guide you implicitly without noticing and it feels like it was you who figured it out, but in reality you were pushed in the right direction subconsciously. The developers are literally performing Inception on players, those are the kind of games I find to be truly special. Last one that did this for me was The Witness.
BotW will have both: the overworld is a mechanical sandbox for you to mess around in and hand-crafted content comes in the form of shrines that are meant to demonstrate a specific idea.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
The level design
superNESjoe
Member
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When I was younger, the sense of adventure on a rainy night is what captivated me to ALttP. I was too young to really grasp the dungeon mechanics, but I enjoyed just exploring the overworld. The music was catchy, and the graphics felt inviting for a lack of a better term.
I see the same thing in my 6 year old now, he'll open up the 3DS and just fuck around in the overworld of ALBW.
I see the same thing in my 6 year old now, he'll open up the 3DS and just fuck around in the overworld of ALBW.
The pacing and variety of tasks and sense of discovery is so finely tuned as a gameplay loop that I'd argue that no other series is in the same league as Zelda. No two games in the series feel the same, yet they all feel so great (yes, even the DS entries).
The sense of discovery (in particular) in Zelda games doesn't feel like anything else out there. I say that as a big Metroid and Souls fan as well. Discovering something in a Zelda game feels "earthy" if that makes any sense. There's a whimsical nature to the atmosphere yet almost a serious religious overtone to all of the imagery as well.
Really it's the gameplay that makes each game shine though. Every time you start a Zelda game, it feels like you're discovering something unique around every corner. You learn everything about each environment in order to proceed and it makes each installment feel like your own miniature garden. Even though each game is a grand adventure, they all genuinely feel intimate in scope as well. That's sort of the crux of what makes them such great games. The sense of place and familiarity you will have with each environment by the end of each game. I'd go so far as to say that the environments in Zelda games are characters, themselves with whom you are constantly engaging in dialogue through gameplay.
The sense of discovery (in particular) in Zelda games doesn't feel like anything else out there. I say that as a big Metroid and Souls fan as well. Discovering something in a Zelda game feels "earthy" if that makes any sense. There's a whimsical nature to the atmosphere yet almost a serious religious overtone to all of the imagery as well.
Really it's the gameplay that makes each game shine though. Every time you start a Zelda game, it feels like you're discovering something unique around every corner. You learn everything about each environment in order to proceed and it makes each installment feel like your own miniature garden. Even though each game is a grand adventure, they all genuinely feel intimate in scope as well. That's sort of the crux of what makes them such great games. The sense of place and familiarity you will have with each environment by the end of each game. I'd go so far as to say that the environments in Zelda games are characters, themselves with whom you are constantly engaging in dialogue through gameplay.
Simbabbad
Member
I'd say Wind Waker HD is much better than Twilight Princess. Twilight Princess was weird, it really lacked a consistent direction.Twilight Princess was a far batter game than Wind Wakerimo
I even liked the long intro section
I think it's this for me too. The sense of adventure without the relentless gore, bloat, grinding or all three that seems to go hand in hand with RPGs.
Even if something is boring in a Zelda game (like collectathons), it's usually only one sequence and then is discarded. There's also plenty of different sequences throughout that appear for one dungeon or a few minutes and then not again, so there's lots of variety.
Boss fights also don't require you to be a certain level to be able to beat them without only doing minimal damage- if you can reach them, you can beat them, which encourages pressing forward. I don't know, that stuff just feels more heroic to me than walking in circles outside a boss room.
Lion Heart
Banned
I'm currently playing wind waker, that's after I gave up on twilight HD and skyward sword because I found them very boring.
So what I ask myself is what can Nintendo do to make them fun? I love the design and on paper, these are the games I want to play. But when I actually play them I realize I'm not really enjoying myself.
Maybe because they adhere to their formula so strictly without any sort of panache, that it doesn't have much in terms of surprises. The mechanics, individually, aren't anything above mediocre, that includes the combat, puzzles, story and exploration. Now you put it all together and it's arguable the game is greater than the sum of its parts but I need one of those aspects to excel. I think that would go a long way to encouraging myself to trudge on. Whether it's combat, story or amazing puzzles.
That said I'm enjoying wind waker the most so far, partly because the artstyle and world design.
I never grew up playing Zelda games so I'm judging them against the current landscape.
The new one looks to be fixing some of my issues, I'll keep an eye on it.
So what I ask myself is what can Nintendo do to make them fun? I love the design and on paper, these are the games I want to play. But when I actually play them I realize I'm not really enjoying myself.
Maybe because they adhere to their formula so strictly without any sort of panache, that it doesn't have much in terms of surprises. The mechanics, individually, aren't anything above mediocre, that includes the combat, puzzles, story and exploration. Now you put it all together and it's arguable the game is greater than the sum of its parts but I need one of those aspects to excel. I think that would go a long way to encouraging myself to trudge on. Whether it's combat, story or amazing puzzles.
That said I'm enjoying wind waker the most so far, partly because the artstyle and world design.
I never grew up playing Zelda games so I'm judging them against the current landscape.
The new one looks to be fixing some of my issues, I'll keep an eye on it.
Jim_Cacher
Member
Great post, expressing what I feel about Zelda. Zelda games are great adventure which encourage the players to explore and to think constantly. To me, BotW seems to be a new high in this regard, and I can't wait to jump into that apocalyptic Hyrule to fully immerse myself into another world.
Phenomenal write up. Metroid and older Mario games also feature this to an insane degree. (Especially Super Mario Bros 3 which has some of the best secrets in gaming).
I'm still discovering the most obscure shit in certain Nintendo games. They really are the masters of this type of gameplay and Zelda feels like the series that pioneers this most heavily.
MiamiWesker
Member
Craziness to me. TP is an absolute masterpiece and had it come out first instead of OoT we would be talking about it as maybe the greatest game ever made. The dungeons are the best in the series hands down. The items the most interesting. Some of the best bosses. It has the best horseback riding by far, it has character switching with the wolf mechanic, it has flying segments, the best fishing, the best combat outside SS.
I will never understand TP being put under WW or SS, it's absurd to me. That said all Zelda games are excellent and there is no bad answer if you like one more than another and you know how Zelda opinions go.
For me, as someone who has loves this series more than any other, TP resonates the least. It honestly feels a little boring and empty compared to the others... Even the DS games. I haven't gotten very far in it though, and I will replay it after I finish MM3D.
Zelda games can often take me multiple attempts to get into. But when I do get into them, I fall in love with them pretty hard.
Neoleo2143
Member
I think that it's the fact that they all exceed at selling their settings. They also have satisfying gameplay with strong game feel, there's an immense variety between everything you do. Also they pretty much all have a satisfying conclusion.
If we're looking at Zelda in today's time:
It's combat is serviceable but it's no character action game. It's puzzles require a bit of thinking but they're never as complicated or thought provoking as puzzle games. It's story is simple and charming but they rarely take it to someplace truly interesting. It's a jack-of-all-trades approach to a game and there's very little on the market that matches it. Often times the puzzles in action games are frustrating because they're usually very simple and/or frustrating, conversely puzzle games with an action-threat to it can be frustrating. Zelda strikes a balance between those two. The only individual pieces that I think always stand with the best in the industry are it's music and visuals.
It's combat is serviceable but it's no character action game. It's puzzles require a bit of thinking but they're never as complicated or thought provoking as puzzle games. It's story is simple and charming but they rarely take it to someplace truly interesting. It's a jack-of-all-trades approach to a game and there's very little on the market that matches it. Often times the puzzles in action games are frustrating because they're usually very simple and/or frustrating, conversely puzzle games with an action-threat to it can be frustrating. Zelda strikes a balance between those two. The only individual pieces that I think always stand with the best in the industry are it's music and visuals.
MiamiWesker
Member
Ok you come from a different perspective so it could be interesting to see your point of view. You say the mechanics are average compared to the current landscape. I will agree the combat has always been simplistic but what games would you say has better puzzles, or dungeon design, or variety in things you do? Are those things not as important to you? Do you value a side quest with a good story where all you do is go to a marker, kill a generic bad guy and watch a cutscene versus one where you may find a cave and solve a puzzle or two to get the item?
You do mention you rather have the game excel at one aspect which I can understand. I would say the witness does puzzles so much better than any Zelda game and it's a masterpiece but I personally like a mix of elements even if inferior.
The exploration and discovery is what always sucks me in. Compared to the seemingly never sending amount of games coming out tooting larger and larger areas to explore, the relatively small landmasses Zelda games inhabit truly feels like an interconnected world where everything has a place and isn't filler. You don't need markers because you learn the world (and eventually the shortcuts) and know where the landmarks are in connection to one another. Wandering off the beaten path and getting lost is fun and leads to something. They have a basic formula for how the game progresses, but they add on just enough in each new entry (mostly) that I can hop right in and begin exploring.
And then you add combat that, despite being basic, feels great to do, a large amount of items that you learn to master and combined over the course of the game, the progression curve, the level design of the dungeons, the varied enemies that require different tactics, the music, the atmosphere, the simple but endearing stories/characters (and sometimes a completely out there one like Majora's Mask), and a million other things large and a small, you get a winning formula.
And then you add combat that, despite being basic, feels great to do, a large amount of items that you learn to master and combined over the course of the game, the progression curve, the level design of the dungeons, the varied enemies that require different tactics, the music, the atmosphere, the simple but endearing stories/characters (and sometimes a completely out there one like Majora's Mask), and a million other things large and a small, you get a winning formula.