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What makes nintendo franchises so strong?
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Doctor Decimate
Member
that's irrelevant
whalleywhat
Member
Off the top of my head, Nintendo have not yet been creative enough to add a cover based shooting mechanic to one of their games.
It's funny how this topic led to fanboy wars so easily.
Still, I wonder if people realize how much the notion that Nintendo thrives due to both "nostalgia" and appealing to "teh kiddies" makes no sense. So it's just nostalgia? Even though they also appeal to the kids who weren't even alive when those old games came out? Also, nostalgia's got me buying new games? That's not how it works. If nostalgia was really in play I'd just play their old games over and over again.
As for "fanboyism", that should just be bannable at this point, it's so stupid. Yes, the only reason people buy Nintendo games is because they're fanboys. Millions and millions of fanboys. And it's not for any reason in particular, they just decided at random to become fanboys of this company over another. Makes sense.
Actually, that brings me to another point: "It's because they've been popular for a long time". That makes very little sense, too. What else was popular back when Nintendo was establishing itself? Sega? Atari? Where are they now?
No brand is going to be nourished by consumers just because "they've been around for a long time". It makes it easier for the company to gain mindshare with the public, but if there was no quality to back it up they would soon be discarded.
As for why I personally believe their franchises thrive, I would put it on their ability to identify what a certain market wants and focusing on appealing to those people enough to generate sales while allowing them to avoid altering their franchises too much. This is balanced, however, with constant innovation in gameplay concepts, enough that each product can really be called its own. This balance is most easily seen in the Mario series. Those who say the series has been the same forever, can you really say with a straight face that 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, NSMBW and SM3DL are the same game? Not if you've played them.
You personally might not consider the changes to be enough to warrant buying it, but if you can't see why someone would see these games as different then there's really nothing I can do for you.
Polish is also an integral factor to their success. If their games were not consistently solid from a technical standpoint every other reason for their success would falter. No one's going to buy a broken game just for nostalgia's sake, or even due to innovation. Nintendo's reputation for providing consumers with satisfying gameplay experiences makes considering their products a safe choice in the eyes of many consumers.
Still, I wonder if people realize how much the notion that Nintendo thrives due to both "nostalgia" and appealing to "teh kiddies" makes no sense. So it's just nostalgia? Even though they also appeal to the kids who weren't even alive when those old games came out? Also, nostalgia's got me buying new games? That's not how it works. If nostalgia was really in play I'd just play their old games over and over again.
As for "fanboyism", that should just be bannable at this point, it's so stupid. Yes, the only reason people buy Nintendo games is because they're fanboys. Millions and millions of fanboys. And it's not for any reason in particular, they just decided at random to become fanboys of this company over another. Makes sense.
Actually, that brings me to another point: "It's because they've been popular for a long time". That makes very little sense, too. What else was popular back when Nintendo was establishing itself? Sega? Atari? Where are they now?
No brand is going to be nourished by consumers just because "they've been around for a long time". It makes it easier for the company to gain mindshare with the public, but if there was no quality to back it up they would soon be discarded.
As for why I personally believe their franchises thrive, I would put it on their ability to identify what a certain market wants and focusing on appealing to those people enough to generate sales while allowing them to avoid altering their franchises too much. This is balanced, however, with constant innovation in gameplay concepts, enough that each product can really be called its own. This balance is most easily seen in the Mario series. Those who say the series has been the same forever, can you really say with a straight face that 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, NSMBW and SM3DL are the same game? Not if you've played them.
You personally might not consider the changes to be enough to warrant buying it, but if you can't see why someone would see these games as different then there's really nothing I can do for you.
Polish is also an integral factor to their success. If their games were not consistently solid from a technical standpoint every other reason for their success would falter. No one's going to buy a broken game just for nostalgia's sake, or even due to innovation. Nintendo's reputation for providing consumers with satisfying gameplay experiences makes considering their products a safe choice in the eyes of many consumers.
DeviousAngel
Member
From where I stand, maturity is a cold, brutal and unforgiving wasteland of shattered dreams and expectations
But seriously, I think some people here in this forum would definitely mature a little if they could just realize one simple truth: you can be all 'growed up' AND STILL love Nintendo. Maturity and Nintendo are not mutually exclusive.
I consider the set pieces to be pretty damn creative; first thing that popped in my head. I would really enjoy to hear you ask that question to the creative director though as I am sure they wouldn't say "Well, I didn't really do much creatively with this game but Nintendo; they do creative like nobody else."
This is fact. Plus I rather Nintendo be the face of gaming they have been around the longest and have been successful the industry isn't that old, and Nintendo has been around for the bulk of it. They are the "Disney" of gaming, whats to hate?
The Wii controller doesn't really lend itself well to those titles, wouldn't you agree?
He probably just got that last year after being stuck with a Wii for the whole generation. Poor guy
Doctor Decimate
Member
many developers hold nintendo in very high regard.
oh, and obligatory Gears of Indiana Raider
Nocturnowl
Member
Pointer controls for aiming? sounds like a good plan to me.
AkimbO_Arcana
Banned
What is mature about not being able to enjoy SMG? I'm seriously stuck here...
whalleywhat
Member
No, I guess they have to be... I guess they have to design around it.
Have you ever played a shooter on the Wii? If so, you would rather play it with the Wii wand than a traditional controller?
If anything, the Wiimote + nunchuck are better suited for that type of gameplay.
Oh yeah, like the guy who worked on the game is just going to disparage it like that. Wouldn't he have a bias?
Wait... are YOU the creative director for Uncharted?
EDIT:
Yes.
What does this have to do with anything.
And, regardless, IR Controls are far superior to dual sticks, and are only beaten by keyboard and mouse.
People credit Microsoft for Gears of War, although it's developed (and the IP is owned) by Epic Games.
And people also credit Sony for Jak & Daxter and Uncharted and Killzone, although developed by Naughty Dog and Guerrilla.
If we only count games that were developed by developers, which are owned by Sony/MS/Nintendo, fine. But then remove Gears of War from the list too.
So your point was?
And for Layton, I posted "I don't know who owns the IP, so no idea if it's okay to list it here". EDIT: After a bit of research: IP seems to be owned by Level-5. Still the games are published and even localized by Nintendo. Which means it's somewhat the same situation as Gears of War minus the localizing part. Which means if you don't count it, then you also can't count Gears.
Spieler Eins
Member
I thought this was the consensus among many who actually tried it. RE4 Wii Edition is also often considered definite version for a reason.
By the way, you don't have to be jumping and constantly stretching your arm while playing like in the commercials, just to let you know...
AkimbO_Arcana
Banned
Totally. Play Goldeneye or Blops on Wii and tell me it doesn't control better. Sure, it looks shitty, but controls wise dual analog is not in the same ballpark.
Those are Sony first party studios though, so what are you talking about?
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Been awhile since I played it, but I'm pretty sure Disaster: Day Of Crisis has cover based shooting sections.
With superior to dual analogue aiming and all.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
someone didnt play RE:4 Wii Edition
I'm exaggerating but it felt like an entirely new game with the pointer controls.
Edit: Beaten
But seriously I can still remember the (small) issues I had with aiming the laser sight using the cube controller. Playing with the Wii controller was so much easier It really made the game new again for me even though I loved it back in its original release
Doctor Decimate
Member
i don't find it hard to believe ND would praise nintendo like that
and congrats ignoring the important part of the post
AkimbO_Arcana
Banned
The Ace of Knaves
Banned
Nostalgia, quality, and fanboys.
I am out. I get where you guys are coming from, to an extent, but I also think some act as if Nintendo does no wrong, can't do anything uncreative and are basically untouchable. For those, there is nothing I can say or anyone can say.
Nocturnowl
Member
I certainly have, when done well it's fantastic and what few shooting games there are give great customization options to ensure you don't have the reticule going all over the place. The Pointer itself is quite possibly the best thing about the wii remote from a gameplay standpoint.
Specifically for Resident Evil 4 I always play it on the wii edition now, while I can use a GC controller I opt for the remote every time.
Doctor Decimate
Member
it's not their fault your attempts to discredit nintendo are pathetic
whalleywhat
Member
Look what you've done, fanboys.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
:lol
- Make sweeping erroneous statement
- Get called on it
- whatever fanboys, I'm out
What the hell... People are rebutting your point that Uncharted is more creative than Wii ___ and Wii remote is not suited for shooters. You brought this up. No one said anything about there're no uncreative Nintendo games.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Canis lupus
Member
Sure, no one wouldn't mind Crash, Spyro or Medieval getting released every 4 or 5 years
AkimbO_Arcana
Banned
Huh? Your argument was, that you don't believe that anyone prefers pointer controls over dual analog. People arguing against that has nothing to do with defending Nintendo. I can ensure you, that I also play my PS3 shooters with the move, as long as they support it. It's simply the superior control setup. Getting off topic though.
Spieler Eins
Member
I don't think you could find too many Nintendofans around here that were happy with the company just a month ago at E3.
Unlike people calling you out, it sure felt you didn't even put too much time (if any) into the thing you are trying to downplay, and hence come across more blinded than the supposed fanboys.
I mean, pointer to be considered superior by lots of people really shouldn't be the most surprising of all things, lol.
That's true and it's what I meant with "some input". Like Nintendo's imput on Metroid Prime. My point was more about concepts than gameplay suggestions. Like Nintendo japan studio wouldn't do an fps, they would ask third parties or Retro to do it. I know they (Retro) are considered first party as well, my point was just that Nintendo sticks to what they're good at.
I like the "outgrown" comments. It's like you all wished you become more mature and "develeped" in in some way. Someone intelligent said we should read books in our childhood, prime and when we're old. Good things don't lose it's merit, maybe your taste changes and you can't appreciate something you did in your past... Growing up often is just an euphemism for getting close minded, it's the opposit of what aging should mean.
I never said Nintendo does no wrong. But your examples and arguments are easily refuted (as you can see).
If you talked about the quality of the online infrastructure, I would criticize them with you.
If you talked about the worrying relationship between Nintendo and third parties, I would be right there with you.
If you talked about the actual games that got mixed reactions (Looking at you, Other M), I would be right by your side.
Those are actual problems that i often find myself against Nintendo more than not, its not because of my username that I think they can do no wrong, its just that I happened to disagree with pretty much everything you have said so far.
IrishNinja
Member
universal appeal is definitely a factor, but yeah, i'm echoing the consistency of quality thing. as an example, sega's been fighting an uphill battle to try to reconnect to that reputation they had & lost for far too much of the last decade, sadly.
fanboyism is barely worth mentioning because every company has that element and it's really your fault if you indulge them anyway - speaking of, that's a really lazy 1st reply where better jokes could've gone.
Gears yes, Uncharted not so much but fortunately i'm allowed to like all sorts of things!
well, i thought i was enjoying games, but fuck that - your bold words have given me pause to think about my life, junior.
i think i'm ready. i'm gonna go start a family now, and subscribe to XBL gold!
fanboyism is barely worth mentioning because every company has that element and it's really your fault if you indulge them anyway - speaking of, that's a really lazy 1st reply where better jokes could've gone.
Gears yes, Uncharted not so much but fortunately i'm allowed to like all sorts of things!
well, i thought i was enjoying games, but fuck that - your bold words have given me pause to think about my life, junior.
i think i'm ready. i'm gonna go start a family now, and subscribe to XBL gold!
AkimbO_Arcana
Banned
Ever heard of having your cake and eating it too?
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
20+ years of fairly consistent quality and accessability.
chemicals
Member
In my opinion (and I am not a fan of Nintendo nor do I own a Nintendo product anymore) Nintendo franchises are generally high quality and bad games are rare. They're becoming a lot less rare, sadly... but overall the games are good. Think of other franchises that we all love - Sonic has more poor quality games than good quality, Final Fantasy has bad games, Madden has off years, but not Nintendo. They have games that miss the mark (Metroid Other M, Mario Sunshine) but they're not BAD games.