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[SniperHunter]

I don't know what they were thinking but I was thinking Penis.

hahaha same here

 

[ari]

Some gamers really seem to have an active dislike toward anything that isn't a polished, scripted, easily defined, conventional set of mechanics in a well-worn genre of game.

that presentation was very scripted actually.

Every? First you are wrong about that, but I'm not surprised. I'm sure you speak out of your....edit....I'm sure you often state opinions as facts about subjects you don't know about or products and games you haven't experienced.

which games would you say they did that was "me too"...sure there are some, well in your case you say every..but go ahead and list a few.

i have the move and have a couple of games along with it. I am not going to go in full detail because defending a gimmick is beneath me. I am sure you will though.

 

[Prime crotch]

Honestly I was mind blown with the demo, if it weren't tied to a console I'd say it would be game changing.

 

[superbank]

Some gamers really seem to have an active dislike toward anything that isn't a polished, scripted, easily defined, conventional set of mechanics in a well-worn genre of game.

Am I the only one who spent many hours as a kid playing with creative titles like 3D Movie Maker? Titles that don't have an endgoal or a win condition, but are about providing simple tools to just make cool stuff happen on screen? I guess if you really want to be reductive and insist that those aren't "games" and therefore have no place on a video "game" console--especially if it doesn't directly stroke the hardcore male 18-35 demographic--you can do so, but this industry is already suffering from a drought of innovation in mechanics and design because of the need to make everything as streamlined and conventional as possible. It's refreshing to see a first party, especially Sony, give so much attention to something that opens up more possibilities for what their system can be used for.

I had a lot of fun as a kid making incoherent movies with my friends in 3D Moive Maker (at least I think it was 3D Movie Maker). You can play with it but I wouldn't call it a game personally. These types of software embody the essence of play.

I agree it was the best demonstration at the conference. Any other exclusive shown was a by the books installment in it's respective genre, if there was even any gameplay. At least MM were showing something fresh.

 

[The Lamp]

I'll just say what I said in another thread

I guess I didn't think about that.

A Create Mode level in a new PS4 LittleBigPlanet could show you on your TV screen in your living room, with in-game materials and objects to use overlaying the screen.

You use the move controller to paint your level out in 3D space and make subtle, delicate tweaks in logic/etc. with the controller. Literally sculpt out your own 3D world to play.

I think that's what the Mm demo was trying to showcase but wasn't able to communicate properly. This is clearly what Mm is hinting that they've been working on.

If this hints toward the kind of game they're going to make, I am incredibly excited.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I wonder if Sony is going to include a DS4 and a Move controller with every PS4.

I would hate for the userbase to be splintered with the Move, and it seems like Media Molecule's next game is based entirely upon aspects of Move functionality.

What are the chances that Sony includes a Move with every PS4? They're already including the camera.

 

[Byakuya769]

I watched it again, and I think it was actually worse on the second watch. Now I'm pretty confident that making use of the Move itself is using a gimped tool to prove that you can instead of expanding your creative tools. Was their a showing of any greater complexity provided by the tools? No, just platitudes heaped on what the move and PS4 will allow you to do.

No one seems to be asking the seminal question of "why?" Why would I want to spend time sculpting models with the move? Because I can? Meh.

And I am generally confused what their final concert was supposed to show. I saw no head tracking or new uses of the camera, just wild flailing, tethered animations, and exaggerated scripted "fun." I think "wii music" is fair.

 

[-COOLIO-]

I wonder if Sony is going to include a DS4 and a Move controller with every PS4.

I would hate for the userbase to be splintered with the Move, and it seems like Media Molecule's next game is based entirely upon aspects of Move functionality.

What are the chances that Sony includes a Move with every PS4? They're already including the camera.

same here

 

[Afrikan]

that presentation was very scripted actually.



i have the move and have a couple of games along with it. I am not going to go in full detail because defending a gimmick is beneath me. I am sure you will though.

I'm sure you mean, "defending my *opinion* that I state as fact, is beneath me."

I didn't ask you to defend anything or defend a gimmick. I just asked you to list some of the games you felt were "me too" games that you say are the only types of games Sony has developed.

Have you played Datura?

 

[gofreak]

I watched it again, and I think it was actually worse on the second watch. Now I'm pretty confident that making use of the Move itself is using a gimped tool to prove that you can instead of expanding your creative tools. Was their a showing of any greater complexity provided by the tools?

I'm not sure what you're getting at. 'Instead of expanding your creative tools'? Move is the best tool available for them for what they're trying to do, no? MM isn't in the business of making peripherals.

MM has no compulsion to use Move. They can do whatever they want. But they chose to use Move here because it accommodates their goals better than the DS3 (or 4). They didn't build this for Move, or as a showcase for Move, Move was just the best fit for what they were wanting to build.

No one seems to be asking the seminal question of "why?" Why would I want to spend time sculpting models with the move? Because I can? Meh.

Creative expression. This is digital play-doh. Why does anyone make things with creative tools?

But it is fair to ask if there's a framework that this bolts into. I think there is. They didn't elaborate on it at all, but I think there is a 'game-ified' framework that this tool is a part of.

 

[Skidd]

This was the most innovative thing for the Move, ever. Much potential, if implemented well enough.

 

[djplaeskool]

If I saw it right, it looks like a toolset for move-driven 3D sculpting, scripting, animating, and presenting.
That's really damn cool.
I'm not sure if it was packaged for the conference in the best way, however.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I watched it again, and I think it was actually worse on the second watch. Now I'm pretty confident that making use of the Move itself is using a gimped tool to prove that you can instead of expanding your creative tools. Was their a showing of any greater complexity provided by the tools? No, just platitudes heaped on what the move and PS4 will allow you to do.

No one seems to be asking the seminal question of "why?" Why would I want to spend time sculpting models with the move? Because I can? Meh.

And I am generally confused what their final concert was supposed to show. I saw no head tracking or new uses of the camera, just wild flailing, tethered animations, and exaggerated scripted "fun." I think "wii music" is fair.

Why do we spend time watching movies? Or playing games? Or throwing a football? Why isn't a very useful question when applied to entertainment. Play is just something that many animals do.

The concert was meant to express "Look how easy it is to create something then bring it to life" I don't think they are saying that this is a music game.

 

[wildfire]

It was probably the only part of the conference that made me feel excited, like I was seeing something that would actually be fresh and exciting. I doubt it will actually turn into anything I'll enjoy, but it was fun to watch. The puppets bugged me though because it was so obviously not being controlled by the move, except for possibly the most basic movements.

That's not accurate if you count only the movement of their legs as basic. When one puppet grabbed the guitar you can clearly see the person controlling it press a button to make that happen. It makes me wonder what type of scripting tools they want to offer so even more complex actions can be achieved.

 

[superbank]

I watched it again, and I think it was actually worse on the second watch. Now I'm pretty confident that making use of the Move itself is using a gimped tool to prove that you can instead of expanding your creative tools. Was their a showing of any greater complexity provided by the tools? No, just platitudes heaped on what the move and PS4 will allow you to do.

It's easier to understand and use as a fully 3D cursor editing fully 3D objects than say, a mouse or two analog sticks in conjunction. This is an important point to lowering the barrier of entry for content creation.

No one seems to be asking the seminal question of "why?" Why would I want to spend time sculpting models with the move? Because I can? Meh.

If you're not the creative type you could instead experience another persons content.

And I am generally confused what their final concert was supposed to show. I saw no head tracking or new uses of the camera, just wild flailing, tethered animations, and exaggerated scripted "fun." I think "wii music" is fair.

Try creating that quality of animation that quickly with the accepted norms of 3D animation programs. It's not possible or easy.

 

[chogidogs]

I wonder if Sony is going to include a DS4 and a Move controller with every PS4.

The light bar on the DS4 pretty much makes it a move controller so they probably don't need to pack it in.

 

[wildfire]

I don't think there's any chance they'll ever be used to create game assets, nor do I think anyone at MM expects them to.

That's where you are exactly wrong. I'm wondering if Media Molecule is going to offer a full blown application to create things in 3D.

It would become the primary reason I would buy a PS4 a year after its launch instead of waiting towards the end of its cycle because it would offer something I'm not terribly good at even with Unity.

I can't speak for everyone, but my ridicule stems from a feeling of time being wasted on something better for GDC. Your first showing of your system that basically holds the entire division in balance and you allow MM to get up and do a puppet show with a controller people laugh at? Oh ok. Good job, good effort.

Obviously you hate tools for sandbox gameplay or are you just that clueless to what sandbox gameplay is supposed to be about?

 

[ASIS]

that presentation was very scripted actually.

This only proves his point. People are focusing on the scripted part rather than the game itself.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

If I saw it right, it looks like a toolset for move-driven 3D sculpting, scripting, animating, and presenting.
That's really damn cool.
I'm not sure if it was packaged for the conference in the best way, however.

The thing is you don't even need to pick up a move controller to benefit from the creations. If LBP taught people anything it should be that there will always be creators that really dig the ability to make their own stuff, and people who don't will know about the creations one way or another. Just go to it and play, experience, use it.

I tried making levels, and while it gave me hours of fooling around while not realizing how much time passed, my level was embarrassing. I burst out laughing when a year or so later one of my friends mentioned having just played one of my levels. However I played hundreds of LBP levels.

People will be borrowing thousands of MM PS4 creator items. Like someone said, if they make a Minecraft like 3d world where you build and craft stuff, people will eat those creations up. People craft and create houses, armor, weapons, and maps in Skyrim. Doing so is a hard process in a 3D program I bet. The skyrim mod acquisition site is hugely popular. Who here mods for skyrim?

I rest my case.

 

[nelsonroyale]

The tech was cool, interested to see where they go with this...

 

[Hoo-doo]

I want Spore 2 with the Move controller for the creature creator.

 

[Laranja]

That's where you are exactly wrong. I'm wondering if Media Molecule is going to offer a full blown application to create things in 3D.

It would become the primary reason I would buy a PS4 a year after its launch instead of waiting towards the end of its cycle because it would offer something I'm not terribly good at even with Unity.

Sorry, I don't see it happening.

I can't imagine any 3D artist giving up his trusted PC, familiar software, and precise tools in order to create game assets on a PS4 with a Move controller. What advantages would this have over the professional software already available on the PC and that has been used for such a long time? How would the model be optimized? You can't just throw a model into a game and it'll automagically work, especially on a console.

This seems like a tool meant for players to fool around and have fun, not to create professional-level game assets, and I'm fairly sure it won't ever be used in game development.

Just to be clear, I'm talking about real game development, not hobbyists or wannabe developers.

 

[Stampy]

If we're talking about the pseudo-"live" performance. Then I feel that they thought too much of what they were doing was more self explanatory than it was.

It came out of nowhere and had no explanation. I guess they got the feeling that fans of rhythm games would want to create a fictional concert like that where they can take their "guitar hero" fantasies to the next level.

But it all seemed kind of... weird. And... awkward.

We will get a lot of insight into the process later on. Although this maybe was not the best way to demonstrate the creative process of their potential game, but then again taking into account that this isn't even a game announced, I believe it is really not such a big misstep. Who wanted to analyze the video, saw the hidden potential, while those who didn't, they just saw the music jamming motion mumbo-jumbo.

I think the very interesting thing about the music part is that they seemed to have found away of auto animating custom creations. That is no mean feat. at all. In fact it's extremely impressive.

What do you specifically mean by auto-animating? Are you referring to leg and head movements?

If this hints toward the kind of game they're going to make, I am incredibly excited.

I think that we can have a lot of belief, based on what we saw, that it hints towards that type of game.

No one seems to be asking the seminal question of "why?" Why would I want to spend time sculpting models with the move? Because I can? Meh.

Hm, well sculpting objects in 3d is probably not that easy with sticks. They are ok for 2D, but just imagine doing 3D objects the simple way with DS. You would go mad. So if Mm based their project around the 3D idea, they probably tried to find the best possible solution.

And I am generally confused what their final concert was supposed to show. I saw no head tracking or new uses of the camera, just wild flailing, tethered animations, and exaggerated scripted "fun." I think "wii music" is fair.

There is no head tracking for controlling characters in that video. They were just playing along. You really saw no subtleness in the control of characters? I can’t believe it. Analyze the video second by second. As a matter of fact, you pick any part of the video that seems suspicious and disclose it here so we can discuss.

Sorry, I don't see it happening.

This seems like a tool meant for players to fool around and have fun, not to create professional-level game assets, and I'm fairly sure it won't ever be used in game development.

Yep, it would be truly unrealistic to expect this to be a tool that pros would use. Nor is that the aim of Mm. In the end they have to hit that fine line of having enough freedom in order to allow creative expression, whereas not slowing the process down by all the complexities (which are more than necessary for professional developers).

 

[Phatmac]

Mm is one of my favorite developers. They're one of the few that is full of charm. I don't know what they were doing with that demo but I liked it.

 

[odhiex]

I was thinking they are making the next-gen Minecraft...with shared creations to your world. Seems like I was the only one thinking like that?

 

[Stampy]

I was thinking they are making the next-gen Minecraft...with shared creations to your world. Seems like I was the only one thinking like that?

Nope, about 25-ish% of people in this thread, and plenitude of them on the internet.

Anyway, what do you guys think how will they address the necessity to move the created characters in the 3D world. From the video it is somewhat clear that Move won't be able to freely move the characters around the world when acting out. I guess this would be used in combination with stick (for movement). Which makes Navi+Move combo useful. But on the other hand, we don't even know if PS4 will support Navi controller.

 

[RiverBed]

Maybe they want to take the LBP concept to the next level: game creation. Instead of being limited to the pre-set tools and narrow canvas, maybe MM's next game will be a kind of a workshop where you build your item (asset creation) then create a flexible canvas then make your own little game.
You could have user generated adventure uploads with distinctive art styles and aesthetics.

I'd like that.

 

[Stampy]

I would like that. You could have user generated adventure uploads with with distinctive art styles and aesthetics.

Although I agree that aesthetics will differ based on the person creating them, but in the end they will always have that cloudy-sculpted feel, just like LBP has this sameness of the general aesthetics in all the user created levels. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. In the end this is not one game to conquer all.

 

[SykoTech]

Watching it a second time, this was actually pretty cool. At first I just wanted them to forget showing off tech and get to the actual games. But now that I'm actually paying attention, the potential here is pretty huge. I hope this creation potential can truly come to fruition.

Maybe they want to make take the LBP concept to the next level: game creation. Instead being limited to the pre-set tools and narrow canvas, maybe MM's next game will be a kind of a work shop where you built your item then create a canvas then make your own little game.
I would like that. You could have user generated adventure uploads with with distinctive art styles and aesthetics.

I'd like that.

This would really be the best outcome. Especially if the DualShock 4 can be used when it comes to playing the sculpted creations. Not sure if they'd be able to pull off radically different art styles, but that would be great.

 

[PaulloDEC]

Watching it a second time, this was actually pretty cool. At first I just wanted them to forget showing off tech and get to the actual games. But now that I'm actually paying attention, the potential here is pretty huge. I hope this creation potential can truly come to fruition.

I was just about to say pretty-much this.

It just looked weird and ridiculous to me the first time round, but watching it again last night it actually seemed quite impressive. Even the stuff with the crazy puppets was pretty neat; the motion-tracking seemed spot-on, and the fluidity of the translation from controller to the characters was amazing.

Still not exactly hyped for a virtual puppet theatre, but the tech shows a lot of promise, certainly a lot more than it did on the PS3.

 

[Mononoke]

I think the actual tech was cool. But it just looks so damn goofy watching people play with the move controllers. I don't now if that's something we'll ever get over. But I always hated the way motion controls look when you play them. They are just so damn goofy. So they always look bad (IMO) in presentations. But I could see this being cool if you are using it in your own home.

 

[Pyccko]

Well shucks, I thought it was cute as heck. Not necessarily something I'd be totally interested in, but who knows, maybe they can plug that 3d modeling tech into the next LBP or somesuch. Might lead to something interesting in the future.

 

[blitzcloud]

For a few months of exploring, building a zbrush-esque modelling tool in move that can be later used as meshes for a game where you create your own animations is something pretty outstanding.

 

[Zampano]

I was just left thinking that the demo was completely scripted and fake. The movement of the puppets had nothing to do with what the people controlling it were doing.

Looks like fun tech though.

 

[noah111]

I was just left thinking that the demo was completely scripted and fake. The movement of the puppets had nothing to do with what the people controlling it were doing.

Looks like fun tech though.

Pretty sure it wasn't fake. You have to keep in mind that they're controlling the bodies with the Move, but they still have numerous buttons they can use to trigger different functions (like grab, etc).

 

[cuyahoga]

On second viewing, this came across a lot better. And I'm eager to see the full product this is connected to.

 

[Zampano]

Pretty sure it wasn't fake. You have to keep in mind that they're controlling the bodies with the Move, but they still have numerous buttons they can use to trigger different functions (like grab, etc).

I don't know man. Watch dat Santa. Something is off.

 

[UncleSporky]

I was thinking they are making the next-gen Minecraft...with shared creations to your world. Seems like I was the only one thinking like that?

It's not next-gen Minecraft. I'm not disparaging it at all, it's really cool and has a ton of potential, but it's not next-gen Minecraft. It looks a lot more like a content creation tool than something that presents itself as a part-time game, and Minecraft is just going to be far easier to get into. Anyone can place blocks like a bricklayer...not everyone can sculpt.

It's the difference between blocks and Lego vs. modeling clay.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

It wasn't even a concept of a game, it was just a statement in a pseudo-video trailer reel format.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

I felt embarrassed for the people 'pulling the strings'. I don't even think little kids would think that was cool.

 

[Mondriaan]

It's not next-gen Minecraft. I'm not disparaging it at all, it's really cool and has a ton of potential, but it's not next-gen Minecraft. It looks a lot more like a content creation tool than something that presents itself as a part-time game, and Minecraft is just going to be far easier to get into. Anyone can place blocks like a bricklayer...not everyone can sculpt.

It's the difference between blocks and Lego vs. modeling clay.

Well, anyone can take other people's sculptures and furnishings and make themselves a house for a set for a skit. Maybe they could use characters other people have crafted as well.

 

[blitzcloud]

I felt embarrassed for the people 'pulling the strings'. I don't even think little kids would think that was cool.

gaming prejudices.


Many people look "stoned" when playing games, let's make fun of it too.

 

[Z3M0G]

I feel people missed the point entirely. Its basically an animated film maker, using the move gestures as an easy form of "motion-capture". While the community will take care of creating characters and props for everyone to share.

Their mistake was the music band concept... they should have animated a short comedy skit with a simple plot. People would have been instead blown away by the same tech.

 

[Mondriaan]

Their mistake was the music band concept... they should have animated a short comedy skit with a simple plot. People would have been instead blown away by the same tech.

I think they had to be aware of how the music band concept would be received.

It seems more likely this was homage to the infamous unveiling of wii music. It's not like anyone remembers much else from that presentation, but people certainly remember that.

 

[videogamephilosopher]

Well here is hoping little big planet 3D or whatever mascot or character they use (Super Sony World) will continue they play share create theme and let user build with the move and place the objects in their world for other to see experience. No reason for sony not to create an I.P like dark clouds world builder and the media molecule build tool to create set pieces with a brand new I.P. That heavily borrows from the Minecraft secret sauce.

 

[Laranja]

I feel people missed the point entirely. Its basically an animated film maker, using the move gestures as an easy form of "motion-capture". While the community will take care of creating characters and props for everyone to share.

Their mistake was the music band concept... they should have animated a short comedy skit with a simple plot. People would have been instead blown away by the same tech.

I don't think it's a matter of people missing the point (they didn't, in my opinion), it's a matter of Sony showing harcore gamers, the one watching the show and posting on GAF, a game/tool/toy/whatever that I believe would mostly appeal to kids and casual gamers.

 

[superbank]

I don't know man. Watch dat Santa. Something is off.

This definitely needs to be acknowledged. There were a lot of little motions and overlapping actions the characters were doing. The Santa in casual clothes is the best example, especially towards the end. Lots of individual leg/hand movements and especially his head movements as he was jamming to the music. It's hard to believe everything there was controlled just in that one take. I don't think it was faked, rather there was more Move motion capture that was done after the initial movement blocking. If I was developing this tool I would make it possible to create animation for each body part/joint if you desire more animation layering. There were other animations such as the way the partners looked at eachother that could easily be controlled by the software. Simply set the head to look towards the other head with a delayed reaction, possibly with some control over the delay with button inputs in real time (the girl puppets head turns were more delayed than the santa).

 

[DEADEVIL]

I won't hate on MM as they deserve to do anything they want and probably could pull it off. It just the fact that so many bashed MS for any Kinect related game, while praising Sony for waht they believed was never promoting the device, that it poked holes in that theory.

 

[Grinchy]

I won't hate on MM as they deserve to do anything they want and probably could pull it off. It just the fact that so many bashed MS for any Kinect related game, while praising Sony for waht they believed was never promoting the device, that it poked holes in that theory.

I think it's possible that people exist who think Kinect is a piece of shit while Move actually has the ability to work properly.

 

[Stampy]

Here is a video of the Mm conference taken by hand camera. I would definitely urge those interested to watch it, because at the moment when myriad of sculptures are shown, the camera remains zoomed on the central screen, making it much easier to discern some objects which were made with the sculpt tool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31B9SVug1LQ

I feel people missed the point entirely. Its basically an animated film maker...

It's funny how you say that, taking into account that it was pointed out on stage that this can be used to create set, games, music videos, etc...