Support NeoGAF

[SmokedMeat]

all npcs had a 'routine', some would occasionally change up depending on the time of year and where you are in the story, and a certain few were season specific (also dobuita street gets decorated when you close in on christmas)

speaking of the time of year, the weather would change depending on where in the calendar you are (and you also had the ability to switch over to the real weather patterns of yokosuka in 1986/1987), the injured kitten would begin to heal over the course of the year (although this was accelerated if you got through the story quicker), and the vegetation would start to change once you got into spring (ryo's cherry blossom tree being a giant doomsday clock when it comes to taking so long you get the bad ending)

I know, I had the game. Everything had a predetermined routine/ dialogue until you reached a certain point and then it would change to a new predetermined routine/dialogue.

Sega made interesting use of the Dreamcasts clock, but it also did so with Clockwork Knight 2, and even Sonic Adventure which I recall having Halloween decor in the main hub in October.

My experience with Shenmue wasn't as rosy as everyone else's. For me the curtain was pulled back and the world just didn't pull me in. Where some people found it amazing to walk into a store and examine every candy bar I found it pointless. The saving grace for me was the arcade. Forget the black car, I'm playing Space Harrier.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

It was basically an adventure game with some fighting thrown in, and I loved it. Also, Ine-san was the shit.

 

[RurouniZel]

yu so cute

I loved taking care of that adorable cat! :3

Shenmue was all sorts of ambitious and I've always had tremendous respect for that. Combined with solid fighting mechanics, an engaging story and the feeling of a living, breathing world, and it remains one of my favorite games of all time.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Can't believe someone would try to compare Shenmue and GTA. Makes me rage.

You've got serious issues if videogame talk makes you rage. Do you break controllers on a regular basis?

 

[Village]

Well, in Fallout and Elder Scrolls you have an inventory, a level up system and non-mission-specific

You have had that in GTA for a long time ( most of it guns)

NPCs that have their own personalities and titles.In GTA you do not have any of these,

GTA VC, SA, 4 and 5

San Andreas introduced RPG-lite levelling up of skills but they were really mostly cosmetic or "power-ups" such as faster running

But its still an Level up system, they also have that in 5 too. Just because it isn't punches and kicks does not legitimize it. Epically someone who quoted Fall out earlier.

. A situational inventory (one item on a mission) is not an inventory. The only GTA with an inventory is GTA Online, and even that is basic compared to the inventories in RPGs

.
" its not as indepth so its no real" that isn't how comparison works. Because something can be a less indepth version of a thing and still be valid.

It's not reactionary hatred as much as you would like.

Seems so actually.

How can you like something if its boring though ?

Unless you enjoy being bored.

Sometimes Yes.

 

[V_Arnold]

As a kid, I only got to play Shenmue a bit after its time of debut (so in ~2001 december for Shenmue 1, 2002 december for Shenmue 2), and I hated that my friends just said "oh, it is like GTA3 but you cant kill stuff, right?". I hated it with a passion.

The most weird thing about this thread going slightly into that direction is the inability to realize that the main goal and story of Shenmue 1 (and especially 2) was to teach a lesson to Ryo (and subsequently, the player) a lesson on revenge, and where it can take you. At the end of the second episode, most games would have ended where you face the boss at the end (

Spoiler

Skycraper, Lan Di on the chopper, we all remember it

). Yet, the whole game's story is about holding back, what power means in relation to martial arts, and all that jazz. Yet, Shenmue II went on for one more journey, without a care in the world for power and violence. And that was absolutely amazing in my eyes. Very few games ever managed to do that well.

You cant steal cars and kill random folks in Shenmue? Why the fuck do you want to do that? Are you a sociopath? You do not play as old, non-refined gangsters, murderers or straight-up psychopats: you play as a teenager who is learning his biggest lesson in life after his father has been murdered. It is not a revenge fantasy.

 

[-KRS-]

The game's budget was pretty great.

 

[Village]

As a kid, I only got to play Shenmue a bit after its time of debut (so in ~2001 december for Shenmue 1, 2002 december for Shenmue 2), and I hated that my friends just said "oh, it is like GTA3 but you cant kill stuff, right?". I hated it with a passion.

Admittedly GTA3 isn't that much like shenmue GTA has evolved into that more and more over time.

You cant steal cars and kill random folks in Shenmue? Why the fuck do you want to do that? Are you a sociopath?

Some people find it fun sometimes.

You do not play as old, non-refined gangsters, murderers or straight-up psychopats: you play as a teeneger who is learning his biggest lesson in life after his father has been murdered. It is not a revenge fantasy.

Is this supposed to be the implication that makes one is better than the other?

 

[V_Arnold]

Is this supposed to be the implication that makes one is better than the other?

This is an implication that we are comparing an adventure games with fighting elements with sandbox style action games where you play as gangsters. It is like demanding the ability to have killing sprees and tactical nukes from Mario, although I am exaggerating a little.

Also, /slowclap for GTA4+ implementing "real" NPC's 10+ years after Shenmue did it in its own, hardware/scope-limited way. Really big props.

 

[Jinko]

Is this supposed to be the implication that makes one is better than the other?

Nobody is saying one is better, we are saying they are different -.-, different to the point that they almost incomparable.

 

[daviyoung]

You have had that in GTA for a long time ( most of it guns
GTA VC, SA, 4 and 5
But its still an Level up system, they also have that in 5 too. Just because it isn't punches and kicks does not legitimize it. Epically someone who quoted Fall out earlier.
.
" its not as indepth so its no real" that isn't how comparison works. Because something can be a less indepth version of a thing and still be valid.
Seems so actually.
Sometimes Yes.

You aren't really paying attention to the differences, so why are you bothering to argue anything other than "this is reactionary"?

That's really the only point you have, it seems. The intricacies of the levelling up, the skills, the inventory are the differences. You are painting with very broad strokes with your comparisons, and one that I could just contest by saying: Shenmue is RPG and GTA is sandbox, and be done with it.

Just by saying that there are NPCs in GTA VC does not mean they are comparable. Those non-mission NPCs all had the same personalities and the same dialogues and the same 2 voices. Just by saying your inventory in GTA is all guns (not most, all) is not the same as having an inventory that functions like the ones in Shenmue or Yakuza. There is also a wealth of difference between the level-up system of GTA and Yakuza. Just because they're modern day openworlds where you control a male is not a strong enough place for you to say they are similar.

 

[darkiguana]

The lulz when 6.8 happened

 

[Mexen]

Would be more about closure than anything else.

Unless of course the game developers added never-seen-before features with super innovative use of the current technology.

And so far...

Kinect is meh at best
Dual Screen use hasn't had a super mind-blowingly fantastic use yet
VR is pretty much in its infancy

What's my point? Shen Mue was way, way ahead of its time. A remake or sequel today wouldn't mesmerize me as it did back then because I cannot for the life of me see how it can repeat history by being a bleeding edge conduit of gameplay mechanics.

All the remake would do is to cater to my nostalgia and closure.

 

[dripdripsplash]

Shenmue is one of those rare games that makes you proud of being a gamer. When I think of Shenmue, I think of MGS1 on PSX.

That realism both in graphics and atmosphere, mature story with emotions. That sense of engagement with main protagonist...

To trully understand what the love for Shenmue is, you just had to play it back then and experience it for yourself.

Nowdays people think that triple A tittles like The Last of Us or Beyond have engaging stories.

Nope, they are lame compared to Shenmue or MGS. This is the sad truth. It was very long since any game gave me the same experience like Shenmue or MGS.

Well, maybe Portal 2 a little bit.

wat

 

[R_thanatos]

Easy question to answer.

the great things about shenmue were :
- a logical flow of time
- events that were tied to the current time
- Good 3D ( at the time )
- Deep customisation system ( for the fight encounters )
- Qte that made sense ( based on the 4 limb system )
- Characters that made life coherent within the world
- Lots Lots of distractions ( mini games , dialog , extra events )
- Lots lots of secrets

 

[Village]

WHOOPS

 

[endresults]

It's the depth. I remember being blown away by the depth of the characters and environments back when it came out. Fun fact: the townfolk NPC behavior is at least as good or better than Skyrim.

 

[Zafir]

GTA goes for a completely different style though.

Rockstar decided to go for scale instead of detail. There's a massive world, but the majority of it is empty and only there to aide gameplay, rather than to build a believable world. Outside of gun stores and the occasional gas station you can rob, the only buildings you can go in are mostly ones that have a mission attached to them. All of the NPCs are random, nameless entities who aimlessly wander around, they have no life, no schedule and you can't have a conversation with them. Again, one could argue they're only there to allow people to go and massacre everyone, should they please.

Shenmue, didn't do that. Instead it went for detail, and made a world that easily could live outside of the game. You could go in the majority of buildings, talk to everyone and pick stuff up. The people would go around on their own schedules, actually talk about their life, and best of all they actually evolved throughout the game. I know a flower girl was going out with one of the guys at the jacket shop I think it was, and they broke up half way through the game, and their conversations would reflect that. Even the world itself would evolve. The reason I love playing it around Christmas so much is because it has such an amazing Christmas atmosphere when it gets to December. Decorations go up, Christmas songs play as you walk around the town, and even Santa goes walking around the town.

It's two completely different takes on open world, in my opinion.

 

[SmokedMeat]

This is an implication that we are comparing an adventure games with fighting elements with sandbox style action games where you play as gangsters. It is like demanding the ability to have killing sprees and tactical nukes from Mario, although I am exaggerating a little.

Also, /slowclap for GTA4+ implementing "real" NPC's 10+ years after Shenmue did it in its own, hardware/scope-limited way. Really big props.

Most of the talk regarding Shenmue pertains to the small details of the game world that make it come to life for some people.

THAT'S why I brought GTA3 into the discussion. It's the same generation, and brought similar details to pull you into the game world like changing radio stations in a car. San Andreas if I'm not mistaken also changed your appearance on whether you took care of your body.
Nobody is clamoring for violence so let's not create a straw man argument.

 

[Roto13]

People just really like QTE-filled big budget AAA games from big publishers.

 

[Village]

GTA goes for a completely different style though.

Rockstar decided to go for scale instead of detail. There's a massive world, but the majority of it is empty and only there to aide gameplay, rather than to build a believable world. Outside of gun stores and the occasional gas station you can rob, the only buildings you can go in are mostly ones that have a mission attached to them. All of the NPCs are random, nameless entities who aimlessly wander around, they have no life, no schedule and you can't have a conversation with them. Again, one could argue they're only there to allow people to go and massacre everyone, should they please.

Shenmue, didn't do that. Instead it went for detail, and made a world that easily could live outside of the game. You could go in the majority of buildings, talk to everyone and pick stuff up. The people would go around on their own schedules, actually talk about their life, and best of all they actually evolved throughout the game. I know a flower girl was going out with one of the guys at the jacket shop I think it was, and they broke up half way through the game, and their conversations would reflect that. Even the world itself would evolve. The reason I love playing it around Christmas so much is because it has such an amazing Christmas atmosphere when it gets to December. Decorations go up, Christmas songs play as you walk around the town, and even Santa goes walking around the town.

It's two completely different takes on open world, in my opinion.

This is a very interesting and well formulated view on the subject. However I would say in 4 an 5 ( epically 5) they have implemented more world building elements into the game. I believe GTA has become more Shenmue over time. And will continue to, They have a lot of the game play down to iterate and evolve it. They now have been more focused on story and the world you live in and how you can effect it.

 

[daviyoung]

Most of the talk regarding Shenmue pertains to the small details of the game world that make it come to life for some people.

THAT'S why I brought GTA3 into the discussion. It's the same generation, and brought similar details to pull you into the game world like changing radio stations in a car. San Andreas if I'm not mistaken also changed your appearance on whether you took care of your body.
Nobody is clamoring for violence so let's not create a straw man argument.

Well, changing radio stations was something you could do in the first one. And radio stations were linked to "types" of cars too.

The elephant in the room though, is that they really are two different types of game in terms of progression, inventory management, interaction with the environment, and interaction with PC and NPCs. They both have small details that try and make their respective worlds come alive, but most games do.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Shenmue 1 on DC was impressive for me at the time, because of the graphics and how it really immersed you in a small Japanese town. But when Shenmue 2 finally came out on Xbox, I really started to hate the series due to the QTEs. With so many games relying on QTEs these days, I place a lot of blame on Shenmue for making it popular.

 

[Retro_]

This is a very interesting and well formulated view on the subject. However I would say in 4 an 5 ( epically 5) they have implemented more world building elements into the game. I believe GTA has become more Shenmue over time. And will continue to, They have a lot of the game play down to iterate and evolve it. They now have been more focused on story and the world you live in and how you can effect it.

GTA will never become shenmue

GTA's identity is killing hookers and stealing cars without any real social consequences.

Shenmue forces you to live by the rules of society by not giving the player the option of harming NPC's. As a result the game was able to detail the lives and routines of NPC's. Because you couldn't kill them as a result of traversing the world or just on a whim.

The games are like exact opposites. One of the fundamental aspects of a GTA game is that the NPC's are disposable. Shenmue only works because the NPC's around town aren't.

 

[Mikhal]

My experience with Shenmue wasn't as rosy as everyone else's. For me the curtain was pulled back and the world just didn't pull me in. Where some people found it amazing to walk into a store and examine every candy bar I found it pointless. The saving grace for me was the arcade. Forget the black car, I'm playing Space Harrier.

The people that found it amazing to examine candy bars ended up seeing cool stuff like this. It was mindblowing to me that little details they put in the game.

 

[Boulotaur2024]

And some other shots of Shenmue in Demul a while ago. The game is still very pleasing graphically once supersampled to death, only the textures are very low-res of course. I usually blur these out with a filter to soften them up

 

[Zafir]

This is a very interesting and well formulated view on the subject. However I would say in 4 an 5 ( epically 5) they have implemented more world building elements into the game. I believe GTA has become more Shenmue over time. And will continue to, They have a lot of the game play down to iterate and evolve it. They now have been more focused on story and the world you live in and how you can effect it.

It is becoming more detailed, I agree, but I'd still argue a lot of changes they are adding, are for mostly game play purposes rather than just for building a believable world. Buying businesses is still there in 5, but it didn't really change anything in the world, nor could you go in them. What it did offer was more missions. Adding the shares system which fluctuated and changed based on what happened in the story was a nice touch, but again I'd argue that was done more so people had more ways to make money, rather than it being for building the world.

It's no surprise that's the case though. GTA is all about the gameplay. What people love about it is killing the random npcs in random crazy ways, and then going to do a mission to do equally ridiculous stunts. On the other hand Shenmue is first and foremost an Adventure game. It's all about the world and exploring. Consequently, I'm not sure we'll ever see quite the same detail in GTA, just purely because it doesn't need it for what it wants to achieve.

 

[orborborb]

I played it the week it launched in the US and Shenmue was the first game that made me realize I don't enjoy realtime 3d adventure games, voice acting, shallow minigames you play only to earn points that affect other parts of the game, quick time events, and videogame music composed for cutscenes instead of gameplay. It was way ahead of its time all right.

 

[Kimppis]

I got my Dreamcast in 2011 and started playing Shenmue 1 immediately. Yeah, it has aged and doesn't feel as revolutionary anymore. Still, I actually enjoyed my playthrough somehow. The game is incredibly unique to this day. It's an experience like nothing else. Dat atmosphere. Dat attention to detail. The graphics are amazing for a game that was released in 1999 (in Japan)!

Shenmue 2 is a better game in every way possible. For some reason, it's rarely mentioned. Is it because it was never released on the Dreamcast in NA? I played the game for the first time in 2012 and now it's in my top 10. Pacing is much improved. Great characters and the story starts to pick up pace. Disk 4 and the cliffhanger ending... :/

And the soundtrack is Chrono Trigger-tier. Absolutely incredible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly6qB2IFpCE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THvcTyP27To

 

[Village]

It is becoming more detailed, I agree, but I'd still argue a lot of changes they are adding, are for mostly game play purposes rather than just for building a believable world. Buying businesses is still there in 5, but it didn't really change anything in the world, nor could you go in them. What it did offer was more missions. Adding the shares system which fluctuated and changed based on what happened in the story was a nice touch, but again I'd argue that was done more so people had more ways to make money, rather than it being for building the world.

I would argue otherwise, I would also argue gameplay changes can also be world changes. One is not mutual exclusive to one another, the addition of more non story relvant NPC's animals pets and ect goes along with stock market additions.

GTA will never become shenmue

GTA's identity is killing hookers and stealing cars without any real social consequences.

You should really play grand theft auto. SA was about was about the rise of drugs in th 80's and early 90's and the riots in California and how it effected califonia's minority poor youth and every one else in general. 4 was about immigrants coming to america trying to do better, learning that America isn't all it seems, America not bineg an "erase my history" button. 5, well not not going to go much into that, but its WAY more than you seem to be implying.


What you say is really indicative of someone who does not play grand theft auto

Shenmue forces you to live by the rules of society by not giving the player the option of harming NPC's.

I cant harm NPC's in most games either, how revolutionary.

As a result the game was able to detail the lives and routines of NPC's. Because you couldn't kill them as a result of traversing the world or just on a whim.

I just did that in GTA 5 while running over people. Wait you can do two things at once, how revolutionary.

The games are like exact opposites. One of the fundamental aspects of a GTA game is that the NPC's are disposable. Shenmue only works because the NPC's around town aren't.

There are NPC's you cannot kill in GTA, and in 4 and 5 introduced non story relevant NPC's that you need alive to do things with. I don't see what your point is really. You are just making GTA look better because it can kill NPCs and keep them alive.

" wait a minute it can do both, its almost as if game design evolves or something."

 

[Robot Pants]

What's Capcom got to do with it?

"What's Capcom got to do, got to do with it"

 

[M.W.]

Shenmue is better than 98% of games released today. Fact.

 

[Fattony12000]

One of my kittens kinda looks like the Shenmue kitten!

#shenmuekittens

Oh, and the two Shenmue games that we do have are pretty great.

 

[D6AMIA6N]

I actually bought this game day one and was completely underwhelmed. So boring. Cool a game that mimics the monotony of every day real life! Just what I was looking for!

 

[SmokedMeat]

The people that found it amazing to examine candy bars ended up seeing cool stuff like this. It was mindblowing to me that little details they put in the game.

The dull sleep inducing tone of the game is on full display in this short video. The drab lifeless delivery of dialogue when Ryo wins a prize is perfect.
The lively energy that pops the moment Space Harrier fires up is a stark contrast to the main game it's appearing in.

 

[Broank]

Really it's the amount of detail put into the world. Even stuff 90% of people wouldn't even notice.

-Every NPC is distinct and has a backstory, has a home they go to every night, goes to work throughout the day, goes out to at their favorite restaurant eat etc. Even the dogs, cats and various animals you see roaming around have bios and schedules they do. I followed a little dog one day through a few different areas just to see where it went.

-Real weather system from the actual date in Yokosuka, realistic day night cycle. It could rain in the morning and people would have their umbrellas out, then in the afternoon when it clears up kids come out to play. It could snow at night and the next day the streets and buildings would be covered. Night time comes and all the street lights come on and shops put on their lights.

-Incredible amount of easter eggs, special events, cutscenes on certain days for certain conditions, memorabilia, collectables and just tons and tons of little details lovingly tucked into every corner. People still find new stuff in the games even though they has been gone through with a fine tooth comb even down to the actual code.

-The fighting was surprisingly deep and had RPG elements to learning and upgrading the moves. QTEs were done right. Used as ways to make cutscenes and cool looking moments have multiple branching paths and outcomes.

-One of the largest and best soundtracks in games. Distinct music and sounds for every room, area, location.

-One thing I remember being blown away with at the time was it was the first game I remember that had online leaderboards for different countries, world wide etc. you could sell and trade little trinkets online, had really detailed stats you could look up down to even how many steps you took.

-The actual overarching plot of the games and the things it hinted at were fairly intriguing, even if the voice acting was some of the worst ever (although to be fair voice acting on that scale was pretty primitive in 1999)

-Darts

Honestly it was a million different things that made it. It's not for everyone but for people that really like to explore and observe the little details it was revolutionary and still isn't matched in a lot of ways.

 

[Retro_]

I feel like you're being intentionally obtuse here. I mean people have spelled out why they like Shenmue and what it does well, but you don't seem to take that into consideration when addressing bits of pieces of arguments individually

You should really play grand theft auto. SA was about was about the rise of drugs in th 80's and early 90's and the riots in California and how it effected califonia's minority poor youth and every one else in general. 4 was about immigrants coming to america trying to do better, learning that America isn't all it seems, America not bineg an "erase my history" button. 5, well not not going to go much into that, but its WAY more than you seem to be implying.

That's the game's central plot. What people are praising in Shenmue isn't the plot, but the little world details. Things that most people probably miss, but it only makes the game world richer for people that pay attention.

What you say is really indicative of someone who does not play grand theft auto

I haven't played 5 yet. It's sitting in my room.

but I played 4. It's still the same base game. It's not anything like Shenmue. Cars and people are still as disposable as ever. Which sort of conflicts with the story it's trying to tell.(although I'm sure you've had this argument with people more knowledgeable about the game than I am)

I cant harm NPC's in most games either, how revolutionary.

I'm not saying it's revolutionary. I'm saying it's a deliberate design decision that allowed them to make the game they wanted to make. If they didn't make that call and let Ryo beat up everyone they wouldn't have been able to make the same game. This is also why GTA, a game that does allow such an option, can never be anything like Shenmue

I just did that in GTA 5 while running over people. Wait you can do two things at once, how revolutionary.

I need to play GTA 5 then. Up until 4 everyone on the street was randomly generated and disposable and all the named NPC's giving you missions were available at your convenience. Their story doesn't progress until you get involved. Everything is designed to be something fun for the player to do when they want to do it. Few things can be missed forever

There are NPC's you cannot kill in GTA, and in 4 and 5 introduced non story relevant NPC's that you need alive to do things with. I don't see what your point is really. You are just making GTA look better because it can kill NPCs and keep them alive.

Obviously you don't get my point otherwise you wouldn't be making these counterarguments.

Not killing NPC's is what allowed Shenmue to be the game it was and prevents GTA from being Shenmue. No clue why you're so fixated on it as a feature.

 

[Endesu]

Played it for the first time years after the DC had died and was taken with the atmosphere, detail, and music present in the world. I was temporarily obsessed with the official strategy guide, which went into detail about certain NPC's (rather detailed) routines, which is another detail I love. One of the best games ever made and I'm not a 'cinema game' buff either.

I've only played the first section of the sequel and while I liked its bigger scope, the lesser focus on intimate details caused me to lose some interest. It's still a game that I should really play more of.

 

[RedSwirl]

Like other people said, outside of a few PC games, 3D games just didn't have Shenmue's level of detail in its environments and the systems that run the game back in 2000. The fact that you could open every drawer and closet in the main character's house and find stuff in there was slightly mindblowing at the time. Then there's the fact that every NPC is unique and has their own daily schedule. Even today, on consoles the level of detail in Shenmue's world and mechanics is only rivaled by games like Fallout and Skyrim, which people criticize for being extremely buggy.

That, and it's a storyline that went criminally unfinished. I have a feeling a third game would end up like MGS4 or Resident Evil 5 -- trying to tie up a seemingly massive storyline that probably can't be neatly tied up in just one game. Unless they make it like a 40-hour game or something.

 

[daviyoung]

I need to play GTA 5 then. Up until 4 everyone on the street was randomly generated and disposable and all the named NPC's giving you missions were available at your convenience. Their story doesn't progress until you get involved.

This is still true of 5.

 

[Retro_]

Yeah I figured

because like I was trying to say, that's a fundamental part of what GTA is.

and what makes Shenmue so remarkable is that it's not that.

 

[shinobi602]

Practically everything minus the English dub (which was tolerable back then).

Story, characters, atmosphere, music (gorgeous music), setting, attention to detail, in-depth combat.

Shenmue I + II are my greatest gaming experiences.

Pretty much.

 

[Jinko]

Played it for the first time years after the DC had died and was taken with the atmosphere, detail, and music present in the world. I was temporarily obsessed with the official strategy guide, which went into detail about certain NPC's (rather detailed) routines, which is another detail I love. One of the best games ever made and I'm not a 'cinema game' buff either.

I've only played the first section of the sequel and while I liked its bigger scope, the lesser focus on intimate details caused me to lose some interest. It's still a game that I should really play more of.

The sequel gets much better towards the second half I'd say.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

You need to have been there to experience it and it was first out. My last true jaw-dropping experience in gaming. I mean, I've had moments but I literally sat with amazement with this game for almost the entire time.

 

[Village]

Edit:

You know what, just forget it. This is going no where.

 

[Kimppis]

The sequel gets much better towards the second half I'd say.

Yeah, Shenmue II is a game that just keeps getting better and better towards the end.

 

[IAmRandom31]

The original was utter crap to be honest. It was unique and ambitious but there is a reason it sold like ass really. Your ran around with a curfew while asking the same question over and over again to 15 different people and eventually getting into a fight every once and awhile..

To me Shenmue 2 was much better. 1 was laughably bad

 

[RedSwirl]

The effect of Shenmue's systems and level of detail was that you could, essentially, live out Ryo Hazuki's life to an extent much deeper than you could for most game protagonists. Shenmue's actual reasonable passage of time affected everything in the game: shops opened and closed, characters could be found at different places, and most importantly parts of the main quest had to be done at certain times. That left you with a lot of downtime when you had to wait till the next day or a certain day of the week to do something since I don't think there was a time skip option in the game. I remember just killing time at the arcade or training at the dojo, and you could probably do a ton of other stuff too. Shenmue forced you to "live" in its world, not just play in it.

I really do think western first person simulation games like Elder Scrolls, the human city in Arx Fatalis, and towns in Fallout 3 make a better comparison to Shenmue than GTA or Yakuza. Elder Scrolls and Fallout try to have characters that do their own things which creates a somewhat organic system you have to navigate. The difference is that in games like Bethesda's, you have a lot more freedom to do things irregardless of time (you can time skip, you don't have to sleep, etc.) -- so you're not as locked into the time scale of the world as you are in Shenmue. In GTA you're just driving around basically wrecking the environment, and in GTA the time of day has almost no affect on the world. Even despite Yakuza's detailed world with which you become extremely intimate, it still isn't locked into that fourth dimension -- time.

 

[Kimppis]

The original was utter crap to be honest. It was unique and ambitious but there is a reason it sold like ass really. Your ran around with a curfew while asking the same question over and over again to 15 different people and eventually getting into a fight every once and awhile..

The assertion that Shenmue sold poorly is actually kind of a myth. It sold over 1 million copies and was one of the best selling Dreamcast titles. The budget was the problem.

 

[RedSwirl]

On the subject, is Shenmue II even playable on a 360? I've had an original Xbox copy sitting here for a while.