I was with you when I completed my first playthrough. Then I went up to hard difficulty and or whatever where you didn't have "listen mode". It's staggering how much more tense and better the game became. I want them to ditch them, because even if you can toggle it off, you will design the game with listen mode in mind first and that will end up shaping the encounters. I don't want anyone to be able to "listen" through walls.
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What would you want from TLOU2's gameplay?
- Thread starter Catalix
- Start date
I was with you when I completed my first playthrough. Then I went up to hard difficulty and or whatever where you didn't have "listen mode". It's staggering how much more tense and better the game became. I want them to ditch them, because even if you can toggle it off, you will design the game with listen mode in mind first and that will end up shaping the encounters. I don't want anyone to be able to "listen" through walls.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Exactly. I've been wanting this from all games, but TLoU seems to be the perfect fit for such a "mechanic".
brickarts295
Member
I'd be lying to myself if I said they should have limits to weapons you can carry. But it definitely felt unrealistic that Joel was a walking tank with all these weapons on hand.
I would love if we can use more common materials for different stuff. Like using a can/bottle to make a silencer etc.
I would love if we can use more common materials for different stuff. Like using a can/bottle to make a silencer etc.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Just make it a movie. I'd buy and watch it.
MegaSackman
Member
Gameplay is fantastic, just tweak it a little accordingly to the times. What I want are new original "missions/sequences/setpieces (call it what you want)" designs, which is also gameplay.
isaacnukem
Member
Truly open environments. Why do I need to find that specific hole or that specific door? Let me climb up a tree or shoot a window to get outside.
Some good suggestions in this thread.
I've been wondering how they'll handle melee. Now Ellie was only 14 in the first game and was inexperienced, all things considered, when it came to fighting and was pretty ineffective when facing an enemy head on, and at close range. Part ii is 5 years later, so I'm hoping she'll now be more capable in this department. I'm not expecting her to match the pure strength and brutality of Joel, but she should certainly have more of a presence than in the first game, where her melee hits did not interrupt enemy animations and she was limited to the knife.
Now they need to make sure it still look messy, like she's really just fighting to survive. Ellie will probably be more nimble than Joel, and should use this to her advantage. Maybe target the knees to get the enemy off their feet, then start whaling on them while they're down on the ground. Make her fight a little bit dirty as well; I'm talking kicking male hunters in the balls or grabbing the hair of female hunters and yanking them around. She should also be able to use all the melee weapons that Joel had access to in the first game, along with the ability to upgrade them through crafting. Bricks/bottles and any other distraction tools they may add should also be usable as melee weapons. Then, get rid of her one hit kill knife, it trivialised many of the encounters in the first game and removed a lot of the tension from encounters, specifically ones involving clicker. We should have to craft shivs like Joel in the first game.Then there's other elements like the human shield move and the ability to get enemies into a downed state, where they are begging for their life, that I hope are kept in some form for the sequel. (though obviously altered to better fit Ellie's fighting style) I'm sure there's a bunch more they could do with it but that's just off the top of my head.
Conflicted on this one. Obviously I'm hoping they add more variety to the many combat encounters, but I don't want them going too crazy with the creature design. Could really undermine what they are going for with the world/story.
I've been wondering how they'll handle melee. Now Ellie was only 14 in the first game and was inexperienced, all things considered, when it came to fighting and was pretty ineffective when facing an enemy head on, and at close range. Part ii is 5 years later, so I'm hoping she'll now be more capable in this department. I'm not expecting her to match the pure strength and brutality of Joel, but she should certainly have more of a presence than in the first game, where her melee hits did not interrupt enemy animations and she was limited to the knife.
Now they need to make sure it still look messy, like she's really just fighting to survive. Ellie will probably be more nimble than Joel, and should use this to her advantage. Maybe target the knees to get the enemy off their feet, then start whaling on them while they're down on the ground. Make her fight a little bit dirty as well; I'm talking kicking male hunters in the balls or grabbing the hair of female hunters and yanking them around. She should also be able to use all the melee weapons that Joel had access to in the first game, along with the ability to upgrade them through crafting. Bricks/bottles and any other distraction tools they may add should also be usable as melee weapons. Then, get rid of her one hit kill knife, it trivialised many of the encounters in the first game and removed a lot of the tension from encounters, specifically ones involving clicker. We should have to craft shivs like Joel in the first game.Then there's other elements like the human shield move and the ability to get enemies into a downed state, where they are begging for their life, that I hope are kept in some form for the sequel. (though obviously altered to better fit Ellie's fighting style) I'm sure there's a bunch more they could do with it but that's just off the top of my head.
- More enemy variety
More infected types, each requiring a different approach. Or show us some grotesque infected like this weird fucking thing:
Conflicted on this one. Obviously I'm hoping they add more variety to the many combat encounters, but I don't want them going too crazy with the creature design. Could really undermine what they are going for with the world/story.
- Remove listen mode
This completely destroys tension, why would I be tense if I know EXACTLY where the enemies are at all times. Be ballsy and just remove it. With a third person game the player already has a huge advantage over the enemies, you can use the camera to peek around corners and such. You don't need another crutch.
- Better AI
AI was very inconsistent in the first game. At times the enemy AI would behave very smart. They would flank me or sneak up on me or call out to their friends that I was out of ammo, but other times the AI would just glitch and the molotov enemies would just run up to the player and back off constantly like a headless chicken.
- More enemy variety
More infected types, each requiring a different approach. Or show us some grotesque infected like this weird fucking thing:
- Improve the balance of power system
I loved that cat and mouse gameplay, but make it better.
- More moments like the hotel basement
More horror like tension.
- No forced slow walking sections
This makes replaying the game a bitch.
- No more awful pallet/plank "puzzles"
These weren't even puzzles, they were just insulting.
- Be less obvious where enemy encounters will happen
Waist high cover everywhere, bricks and bottles everywhere.. hmm I wonder whats going to happen after the next cutscene.
- More melee/combat options
What I loved in the first game: Using bricks to smash Clicker heads in, throwing a brick/bottle to stun and following up with a melee hit for a 1 hit kill. Just put way more options like that in the game.
This completely destroys tension, why would I be tense if I know EXACTLY where the enemies are at all times. Be ballsy and just remove it. With a third person game the player already has a huge advantage over the enemies, you can use the camera to peek around corners and such. You don't need another crutch.
- Better AI
AI was very inconsistent in the first game. At times the enemy AI would behave very smart. They would flank me or sneak up on me or call out to their friends that I was out of ammo, but other times the AI would just glitch and the molotov enemies would just run up to the player and back off constantly like a headless chicken.
- More enemy variety
More infected types, each requiring a different approach. Or show us some grotesque infected like this weird fucking thing:
- Improve the balance of power system
I loved that cat and mouse gameplay, but make it better.
- More moments like the hotel basement
More horror like tension.
- No forced slow walking sections
This makes replaying the game a bitch.
- No more awful pallet/plank "puzzles"
These weren't even puzzles, they were just insulting.
- Be less obvious where enemy encounters will happen
Waist high cover everywhere, bricks and bottles everywhere.. hmm I wonder whats going to happen after the next cutscene.
- More melee/combat options
What I loved in the first game: Using bricks to smash Clicker heads in, throwing a brick/bottle to stun and following up with a melee hit for a 1 hit kill. Just put way more options like that in the game.
quickwhips
Member
As long as the multiplayer is good I could give shit about single player. I just don't want more bullshit pay to win guns. Makes the guns all free with maps and make skins that cost money like rocket league. The gameplay was so good already it just needs to get rid of the bullshit guns and bleed out crossbows.
Jonneh3003
Banned
Make it feel less artificial, Uncharted 4 had this issue too by having patches of grass that let you know combat is coming up.
LowEndTorque
Member
AI is the biggest area for improvement.
I'm good with the gameplay staying the same and the team focusing on AI.
I'm good with the gameplay staying the same and the team focusing on AI.
somecrazymember
Banned
Lol.
For that one naughty dog guy that might read this thread,i think / hope you're joking. The ladder mechanic was ok but too slow to my taste and sometimes broke the tension completely.
For my part, gameplay was mostly fine, AI can surely be better and i would also like more types of zombies, not just 2-3. Some could have no legs for example and crawl..
Jonneh3003
Banned
More boosting people up too.
how would this work? sounds like something you'd see in an open world game or an rpg
GiantEnemyGoomba
Member
Have a little more interesting encounters like when the sniper is shooting at you the whole time. Aside from that I honestly can't remember any other scenario where something more interesting was happening than "slowly sneak around, distract, and stealth kill." Thankfully the base gameplay was pretty solid and really fun at times, but I feel like there was more potential.
visiblemode
Member
Criticisms of listen mode being supernatural confuse me to no end.
If you're in a building with other people irl, you can definitely tell where they are based on sound. In games that normal human ability is limited by technological hurdles. Listen mode recreates this natural ability. I like it just fine.
For the rest, I agree with most of what OP said, I too loved the gameplay and style and would just like to see AI advancements and also would like to see more enemy human/infected stuff.
Like in Left Behind.
Could have some of the enemy chatter you hear before going loud be more sympathetic. Then have the last couple of enemies alive in an encounter trying to escape, and you can choose whether or not to kill them.
RustyNails
Member
More ways of going past an infested area besides throwing bottles and distracting zombies. Examples: using Decoys, fire alarms/noise machines, more molotov cocktails, etc.
Also I loved the MGSV feature where if an enemy is close, Snake automatically looks at him focusing the camera. This helps avoid surprises due to the fact that it's a videogame and you cant see people behind you, and is also realistic. I'd go with this and scrap the listen mode.
Also I loved the MGSV feature where if an enemy is close, Snake automatically looks at him focusing the camera. This helps avoid surprises due to the fact that it's a videogame and you cant see people behind you, and is also realistic. I'd go with this and scrap the listen mode.
SaganIsGOAT
Junior Member
Also steal some shiv kill animations from Factions.
Like this one:
God damn. Right in the asshole.
Megalosaro
Banned
An actual game instead of a walking simulator with mediocre gun fighting.
Get_craycray
Banned
Sanctuary
Member
Less cutscenes and walking, and more gameplay, with less linear (but not "open world") levels. Improved AI.
You can just shut it off already. With my one and only playthrough, I had it off from the start after the first encounter, just to see what it was like.
You can just shut it off already. With my one and only playthrough, I had it off from the start after the first encounter, just to see what it was like.
No slow walk and talk segments. On second and repeated playthroughs I don't want to be forced to see all the story segments again. It's infuriating.
The combat scenes in the first game are pretty solid mixes of stealth and survival. That should remain the focus.
More variety in enemy types would definitely be welcome. As well as some more 'boss type' encounters.
The combat scenes in the first game are pretty solid mixes of stealth and survival. That should remain the focus.
More variety in enemy types would definitely be welcome. As well as some more 'boss type' encounters.
PseudoViper
Member
Online co-op like RE:5
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
I agree with those saying they'd like to see a bit more variety on dealing with potential human threats. Maybe give them indiviually unique personality traits. Some more fearful of combat, some super aggressive, others neutral with the possibilty of shifting mood depending on your actions. Maybe even have the ability to hold them up at gun point and interrogate Metal Gear style, or trade scavanged goods. You could also encounter a few innocents being harassed by other hostile bandits, with the opportunity to save them.
This is exactly the type of stuff that was on my mind. I can imagine Ellie's brawling style being a little more vicious/feral than Joel's. Like you said, it'd probably involve more dirty tactics and trying to get larger enemies off their feet so she can start wailing on them when they're down. Not sure how much of this would be purely contextual attacks, or on-command with advanced new melee mechanics. Either way it'd be super fun to watch it play out. I'm also thinking more contextual environmental attacks, like pulling down large bookselves or slamming heads into doors.
Yup. I can easily see them making her lose the indestructable knife early on. Having to resource manage shiv materials is absolutely integral to difficulty balance and the feeling of survival.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
What do you guys think could make for interesting set pieces? Remembering that in TLoU set pieces could be claustrophobic and intimate... like Ellie struggling to walk Joel out of the building while he's injured, etc.
I wonder if they'll come up with anything that isn't too tropey.
I wonder if they'll come up with anything that isn't too tropey.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
After two games with subpar enemy AI I'd like ND to actually deliver in that regard. And please cut as many "help me up over this platform" moments as possible.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Idk TLoU enemy AI was pretty good at times. I'm skeptical of your metrics with a comment like that.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
That's a good question. Neil said much of the gameplay mechanics and setpieces this time around will emphasize the game's main theme of "hate." Just like how various elements from the original game were meant to evoke "love/bonding/companionship." The much maligned ladder, plank, palette, and boosting mechanics were a part of that.
How "hate" will be showcased in Part II though? I'm honestly drawing a blank when coming up with possible scenarios. So I guess I'm just waiting to be surprised on that front.
Off the top of my head, other memorable setpieces from TLOU1 include: hanging upside-down while protecting yourself and Ellie, avoiding the turret mounted hummer, the suburban sniper, hunting the deer,
David boss fight
carrying Ellie out the hospital
For some reason, I really want another tracking and hunting wildlife sequence, but this time with a hostile target, like a bear. Would be a good inverse of the deer in Winter part.
PensivePen
Member
A lot more enemy and encounter variety.
The Xtortionist
Member
Pacing closer to UC2 or TLOU1 instead of whatever the fuck happened with Uncharted 4.
Also more three way fights between humans and infected.
Also more three way fights between humans and infected.
Comfort Jones
Banned
A complete rehaul of how stealth works and seriously improve the ai.
No more fucking "carry this ladder" sections either.
No more fucking "carry this ladder" sections either.
NullPointer
Member
This'd be my vote, knowing nothing else about the game or how it'll be different from the original.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Any specific suggestions? There's many different ways to do a stealth system, but ideally, how would you wanna see it executed this time around?
Venuspower
Member
I am fine with the gameplay of the first game.
Of course there is room for improvements:
- No "stupid" allies (e.g. in the first game your friend tells you to stay quiet and careful but in the same second the are doing something really stuipid and ran straight into clickers)
- Using infected as a "weapon" to kill human enemies. The Last of Us Left Behind already has that feature. But it is really important for me for TLOU: Part 2
- I want to see more gameplay with infected in general.
- Improved human AI.
- No jumping/Climbing/Swinging like Nathan Drake. If there are some parts where you have to climb I am fine with it. But please do not focus on it. Also swinging on ropes does not fit into the game. Jumping in general is not a huge problem for me. But I do not want to see an Ellie jumping across the map like Drake.
- No listening mode. For "noobs" it might be a nice help. But it kills the gameplay. Also I do not want to see it in Multiplayer. People should buy good headphones. Then they should be able to track opponents even better.
- More craftable weapons. E.g. if I find a road sign I want to combine it with a pipe or something else to create an epic weapon.
- It would be nice if there would not be that much guns in the game. Bows and Crossbows would be more interesting I think since the world already is f*cked up 29 years and even in the first game it was too easy to find guns and ammo. End-Game Spoiler for Part I:
- Bigger Levels. I want to explore! Give me artifacts, comics, Firefly pendants. I want them all. It really had a lot of fun to collect all these things. I never really did that before in other games. But TLOU gives so much side information with that things (Hello Ish!). Really awesome.
- Also traps would be cool. For example they could offer an opportunity to place bear traps or some other funny self-made-traps to lure infected or even humans to death.
- Bricks and Bottles. I hope these two heroes will stay with us to help protecting us and our friends.
- Let our allies kill some enemies (if we get one of course). It was pretty stupid to see e.g. Bill who shots 100 times with a shotgun and did not manage to kill a god dam runner.
- Let the enemies walk a random path. In Part I it was really easy to beat some levels because the enemies took the same route everytime.
_______________
I think that the gameplay as a whole can be really easy identified as TLOU-Gameplay. Same thing with Uncharted. Every part of the for game clearly the same framework in case of gameplay. Just improved. And I think Naughty Dog will also do that with TLOU-Part II. Should be really easy to identify the game while we are doing our first steps in the game.
Of course there is room for improvements:
- No "stupid" allies (e.g. in the first game your friend tells you to stay quiet and careful but in the same second the are doing something really stuipid and ran straight into clickers)
- Using infected as a "weapon" to kill human enemies. The Last of Us Left Behind already has that feature. But it is really important for me for TLOU: Part 2
- I want to see more gameplay with infected in general.
- Improved human AI.
- No jumping/Climbing/Swinging like Nathan Drake. If there are some parts where you have to climb I am fine with it. But please do not focus on it. Also swinging on ropes does not fit into the game. Jumping in general is not a huge problem for me. But I do not want to see an Ellie jumping across the map like Drake.
- No listening mode. For "noobs" it might be a nice help. But it kills the gameplay. Also I do not want to see it in Multiplayer. People should buy good headphones. Then they should be able to track opponents even better.
- More craftable weapons. E.g. if I find a road sign I want to combine it with a pipe or something else to create an epic weapon.
- It would be nice if there would not be that much guns in the game. Bows and Crossbows would be more interesting I think since the world already is f*cked up 29 years and even in the first game it was too easy to find guns and ammo. End-Game Spoiler for Part I:
Everytime when I enter the operation room I have tons of guns with maxed out ammo and I am standing there and asking me "ouhh I will kill you with the shotgun. Oh no, El Diablo is better. Nah lets take the shorty.". I hope you understand what I mean...
- Bigger Levels. I want to explore! Give me artifacts, comics, Firefly pendants. I want them all. It really had a lot of fun to collect all these things. I never really did that before in other games. But TLOU gives so much side information with that things (Hello Ish!). Really awesome.
- Also traps would be cool. For example they could offer an opportunity to place bear traps or some other funny self-made-traps to lure infected or even humans to death.
- Bricks and Bottles. I hope these two heroes will stay with us to help protecting us and our friends.
- Let our allies kill some enemies (if we get one of course). It was pretty stupid to see e.g. Bill who shots 100 times with a shotgun and did not manage to kill a god dam runner.
- Let the enemies walk a random path. In Part I it was really easy to beat some levels because the enemies took the same route everytime.
_______________
I think that the gameplay as a whole can be really easy identified as TLOU-Gameplay. Same thing with Uncharted. Every part of the for game clearly the same framework in case of gameplay. Just improved. And I think Naughty Dog will also do that with TLOU-Part II. Should be really easy to identify the game while we are doing our first steps in the game.
SolidChamp
Banned
I want a deeper crafting system. More options. More random generation of items you could find. More drawers and cupboards to open (I hated that you could open some cupboards, but not others).
SlipperyFishes
Banned
The inevitable story crossover with Tokyo Jungle.