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What's next for the Final Fantasy franchise?

If I can just turn off Gambits they might as well have just made an action RPG. The only good FFXII is the version we didn't get.

I don't understand. If you turn gambits off, you can go to wait mode and have what is essentially traditional ATB. Why do you jump immediately to action rpg?

Personally, I think turning off gambits makes things a lot of work and I enjoyed automating certain tasks. But you certainly had your choice there.
 
Can we please, at least, just get a main character that isn't whiny, depressed, or named after a weather condition? I think designing a seriously "cool" main character would get the ball rolling in the right direction. I guess pretty boys and powerful, independent women appeals to people still? I'm so sick of it, can't we get a male lead that is more similar to Guts from Berserk and maybe a female lead that is more like Koudelka from Koudelka? AT LEAST bring back a male lead more like Kain or Cecil from FFIV.

Anything is better than whatever the fuck that dummy skinny boy from XIII-2 is called or Sera, Jesus Christ, ANY female character is better than ALL of the females in the XIII universe.
Adult characters don't resonate with what Squeenix believes to be their target audience. Remember how Basch was originally supposed to be the main character of FFXII? Nixed in favor of Vaan due to internal concerns that the fans might not want to play as a grown-up.
 
I don't understand. If you turn gambits off, you can go to wait mode and have what is essentially traditional ATB. Why do you jump immediately to action rpg?

Personally, I think turning off gambits makes things a lot of work and I enjoyed automating certain tasks. But you certainly had your choice there.

If I turn Gambits off, the game gets tedious; if I turn them on, they automate the game for me. XIII has that nice middle ground.
 
Either Square goes back to basics or the series will continue to run itself into the ground.

And by going back to basics, I'm not talking about re-releasing the Golden-Era Final Fantasy titles every fucking year for whatever handheld is currently on the market.
They need to take a long, hard look at what made the older games the complex-yet-charming adventures that they were.

Now there's an idea. Remember when they could have 10+ characters each with their own unique backstories and gameplay styles? Now we have FFXIII-2 with what? 2 playable characters?
 
If I turn Gambits off, the game gets tedious; if I turn them on, they automate the game for me. XIII has that nice middle ground.

Indeed. So did The Last Remnant. You were essentially picking up and dropping entire sets of tactics(classes with XIII, you got four or so choices or action per team with TLR). However it would also be fair to say neither game required a lot of precision in tactical choices(basically by bundling up many choices, they can still be rather automatic, like hitting the answer with a big club instead of finely picking the perfect choice), which is a downside, especially if we are talking 3 man teams.
 
If I turn Gambits off, the game gets tedious; if I turn them on, they automate the game for me. XIII has that nice middle ground.

I don't understand your problem with automation given your comments on FF13. The system is too quick to have complete control over every action (which is why the menu is so heavily simplified), so you just pick autobattle most of the time. You don't even have any microcontrol over your party members at all. FFXIII automates far, far more than FFXII.

FFXII's system wasn't perfect, and it was significantly improved in ZJS. But maybe you can help me to understand.
 
I think it's more evident that there's more strategy in XIII-2 with how fast you can swap between roles and tactics. You can prepare for enemy attacks by rapidly switching to all Sentinels, then going back on the offense. More or less you are constantly engaged by the game which is what I want in new FF games.

I can't really articulate what it is about XII that didn't gel, but 30 hours in and it put me to sleep. With XII you can let the game play itself, you at least have some input with XIII in terms of switching roles and choosing abilities -- also the ability to cancel turns and get fresh ones allowed for some interesting strategy and allowed offense without any lulls.
 
Make the main character a 30-40 year old character would be my contribution. More appealing than a teen/young 20s character

I really agree with this. I know it may never happen, but I really want a character who has a lot of history about him/her. Someone who's actually done something. "Hey the world's in danger, why not ask so-and-so to do something about it? I hear that they did X with Y, clearly they're someone we can trust over this child".

It's probably because I'm fixing to turn 30 that I want this, but I no longer have any patience for the plucky or reluctant 13 - 17 year old hero who is tasked with doing something grand in a world full of adults who apparently lack the combined skill and knowledge to do anything for themselves.
 
If I turn Gambits off, the game gets tedious; if I turn them on, they automate the game for me. XIII has that nice middle ground.

If you're so against automation, then I'm sure you also don't like the auto-battle feature in FF13, right? It selects all of your commands for you, after all.
Not using that makes battles tedious, too.

As for gambits, they only do what you tell them to. There is nothing wrong with automating tedious tasks like stealing in every fight or automatically attacking, while you take care of the other stuff.
 
Tidus had open chest shit in X.

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Didn't like his look at all. Basche was fucking bad ass though. Same with Balthier.

As opposed to Cait Sith, Umaro & Quina being completely normal?

Plus, I think those midget furry things you mention were moogles... >_>; Vaan's clothes make sense considering they ARE living in a tropical/warm climate...

Maybe I am thinking about XI.

Meh, the battle system was customizeable. It's what you made it to be. If it was too automated for you, just turn off some Gambits. FFXII is awesome, one of the best in the series.

I appreciate the innovation, but to me, X still has the best battle system.


That's what happens when you make most of the content of a FF within a year.

Heh, I know nothing about the development process to comment, but I wouldnt be surprised if it was true.

It's a great PSP action RPG which has some of those traditional features you were pining after in XIII (like a world map, air ships & towns).

I'll check it out. But its action, right? Like Kingdom Hearts? Not really a fan of that style of combat in jrpgs.

Well, they've tried to listen to the complains about XIII and to make amends. It still hasn't really made any difference when it comes to the story's quality, but they've added a lot more exploration, mini-games, towns & stuff, so at least it's not as straightforward as XIII.

I'll check it out, but 13 has just soured me so god damned much.
 
I really agree with this. I know it may never happen, but I really want a character who has a lot of history about him/her. Someone who's actually done something. "Hey the world's in danger, why not ask so-and-so to do something about it? I hear that they did X with Y, clearly they're someone we can trust over this child".

It's probably because I'm fixing to turn 30 that I want this, but I no longer have any patience for the plucky or reluctant 13 - 17 year old hero who is tasked with doing something grand in a world full of adults who apparently lack the combined skill and knowledge to do anything for themselves.

Honestly you're absolutely right. With an older protagonist It's just that much more believable. Hell even someone in their mid 20's would be fine. Cloud was what 23? Also easily one of the most popular Final Fantasy protagonists. Sabin, Edgar, Basch, Balthier all older and better characters.
 
If I remember correctly, SE released very quickly a press release saying that FFXIII had the best start in series history in the west. Taking that into account, I can't see how the character design is supposed to be a serious problem for the series.

Well, one, that stat is kind of meaningless -- they may even have been talking about revenue, which makes it extra meaningless.

But two, the visual design of FFXIII was relentlessly savaged in the West before its release, and this is a series where visual design is probably its most prominent strength as a franchise. This isn't the primary cause of decline by any means, it's just emblematic of the general problems FF faces -- but offputting visual design is a huge liability specifically to efforts to revitalize a brand. If Square-Enix wants to put out a new FF that makes a splash, they're going to want something they can sell easily on visual wow, even with only a few still images or short videos.

I can't see how making FFXIII more "western" would solve any problems.

I'm not even talking about emulating Western games or anything (I certainly wouldn't want FF to start copying Skyrim or whatever) but rather about taking elements that are actively offputting to the Western audience and trying to replace them with elements that can have a broader, less specific appeal (and possibly start to skew the FF target age a bit upwards in Japan.)

And you base this on... what?

...paying attention to what I'm looking at? I honestly don't know where to start here.

Well, Versus will offer that and the environments seem much like XII's.

Based on the information released to date, Versus actually has a structure much more akin to older FFs, not the sort of interlinked single-scale world present in XII.

Please tell me how it has been in development hell?

Because with over three years of full-team development and years of small-team work and pre-production beforehand it's still not in any shape to show publicly, much less let people play it.
 
A return to antiquity. NOT a remake. Make a series of 2D Final Fantasies that follow the classical themes of swords and sorcery with a bit of steampunk thrown in, NOT sci-fi. Don't try to emulate an MMO or an open-world game like Skyrim. Model them after the gameplay systems of the SNES-era Final Fantasies, with modern conveniences here and there. Make it challenging. Make the story serious, dark, and characters engaging, epic and memorable. Sublime music and cinematic CG scenes.

I can dream, can't I?

This guy has the right idea.

edit: although i'd prefer it 3d.
 
Despite character designs, the one thing S-E still is capable of is beautiful-looking games. That and the music have not been a problem whatsoever.

Well, except for XII's soundtrack. Bleh.
 
Honestly you're absolutely right. With an older protagonist It's just that much more believable. Hell even someone in their mid 20's would be fine. Cloud was what 23? Also easily one of the most popular Final Fantasy protagonists. Sabin, Edgar, Basch, Balthier all older and better characters.

You could also say the problem is that when the mentor figure of games pop up, they are just that. A Final Fantasy might be better off at pleasing multiple audiences if they make a story about an older character passing the torch to a younger one, and they are both affected by this as main characters. Like if "Auron" was just as important as "Tidus".

Well, except for XII's soundtrack. Bleh.

Disagree, especially when it came to cutscenes.
 
Speaking of Final Fantasy as a franchise, when are we going to get a proper sequel to Final Fantasy Tactics? I'd love to see a new console entry into the series. They could do so much with current gen.
 
You could also say the problem is that when the mentor figure of games pop up, they are just that. A Final Fantasy might be better off at pleasing multiple audiences if they make a story about an older character passing the torch to younger one, and they are both affected by this as main characters. Like if "Auron" was just as important as "Tidus".

Right, like if they had a diverse cast of characters that all played a big role in the story. Not focusing on just one kid. Have old, young, male, female everything in between. A nice big diverse cast. I feel like FF6 did this, it wasn't all just about Terra even though she was the starter character.
 
Right, like if they had a diverse cast of characters that all played a big role in the story. Not focusing on just one kid. Have old, young, male, female everything in between. A nice big diverse cast. I feel like FF6 did this, it wasn't all just about Terra even though she was the starter character.

FF6 wasn't really about anyone though, lol. (I don't think people want a FF6 story/cast. They would say it is dated, no personality/bunch of JRPG archetypes, etc.)
 
Personally, I'd love them to go back to the older times with normal swords and wooden houses and nice villages and all that. Nature filled big world to explore. Variety of side quests with a variety of awards. A sub-decent story, likeable characters, etc...

There's always hope for 15 :(
 
If I turn Gambits off, the game gets tedious; if I turn them on, they automate the game for me. XIII has that nice middle ground.
Maybe you forgot you could edit your gambits, which meant you can set them to do the minimal things like casting cure while you come with creative ways to take out enemies. There were all kinds of things you could try, like playing single member only, or using measures and magic, or messing with enemies via status effects. Gambits were only as automated as you construct them to be, so your complaint that they are incredibly automated is invalid.

I think they should probably drop the Fabula Nova Crystallis subfranchise after releasing VsXIII. If they decide to make another mainline FF on a home console, then they'll have to consider constructing story, setting, and characters that can easily continue in a separate story. It might seem abhorrent to some people, but I think they should plan for a sequel ahead of time, so they can spend less rush and less stupid cooking up a -2 after the proper game releases.

I'm thinking in terms of how Uncharted has a treasure hunter as a main, allowing subsequent entries to be about other treasures instead of ending with just the usual "saved the world" deal. Or how Asscreed plots out stuff about multiple ancestors and whatnot.
 
FF6 wasn't really about anyone though, lol. (I don't think people want a FF6 story/cast, they would say it is dated, no personality/bunch of cliches, etc.)

Well, yeah, it was more about how they all joined together to face a common evil.

I think that naturally they would have to give the characters a bit more personality, but honestly I feel like in games like FFXIII they characters spend way too much time talking and complaining about stuff. In FF6 FF4 FF7 they pretty much just stuck with the mission at hand.

As far as story, I wouldn't want them to do the same thing again, although I would argue that rebellion still makes for a pretty good plot even if it is overused. It's something we can relate to. Nice avatar BTW.
 
It might seem abhorrent to some people, but I think they should plan for a sequel ahead of time, so they can spend less rush and less stupid cooking up a -2 after the proper game releases..

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I think there's some merit to the sequels idea, but a part of me thinks those resources could be better spent taking the time to plan something completely new. They should have just cut their losses with XIII and moved on. I mean, I get that they did it because the engine was there, it was probably really cost effective to build the sequel instead of starting from scratch on a new project etc. But was anyone really like "OMG What happens next?" at the end of XIII? Those people that actually managed to finish it that is.
 
Maybe you forgot you could edit your gambits, which meant you can set them to do the minimal things like casting cure while you come with creative ways to take out enemies. There were all kinds of things you could try, like playing single member only, or using measures and magic, or messing with enemies via status effects. Gambits were only as automated as you construct them to be, so your complaint that they are incredibly automated is invalid.

I think they should probably drop the Fabula Nova Crystallis subfranchise after releasing VsXIII. If they decide to make another mainline FF on a home console, then they'll have to consider constructing story, setting, and characters that can easily continue in a separate story. It might seem abhorrent to some people, but I think they should plan for a sequel ahead of time, so they can spend less rush and less stupid cooking up a -2 after the proper game releases.

I'm thinking in terms of how Uncharted has a treasure hunter as a main, allowing subsequent entries to be about other treasures instead of ending with just the usual "saved the world" deal. Or how Asscreed plots out stuff about multiple ancestors and whatnot.

Fine, replace automated with boring, then.
 
I want Final Fantasy XII-2: Monster Hunter. Optimally, I'd like a game with a main focus on quests, weapons and armor upgrades (similar to MH), set in Ivalice, and with the chocobo breeding from FF7.

Having said that, I know that I will never get it.
 
I want Final Fantasy XII-2: Monster Hunter. Optimally, I'd like a game with a main focus on quests, weapons and armor upgrades (similar to MH), set in Ivalice, and with the chocobo breeding from FF7.

Having said that, I know that I will never get it.

I really just want them to go back to Ivalice, period. It's the best multi-game world they've crafted, with a lot of mature elements that make it better than the XIII games in a lot of ways. The story of XII alone was the huge departure from the series norm. XII wasn't a perfect game, but it got a lot right, and it's the closest Square has come to making a Western friendly JRPG while staying true to who they are as a company.
 
I think it's more evident that there's more strategy in XIII-2 with how fast you can swap between roles and tactics. You can prepare for enemy attacks by rapidly switching to all Sentinels, then going back on the offense. More or less you are constantly engaged by the game which is what I want in new FF games.

Strategy only really works in an RPG like XIII when you actually have enemies that pose a threat, which seems to be a pretty big problem in XIII-2. Moreover, using roles in such a fashion isn't even something unique to XIII-2; you pretty much had to use the Tortoise paradigm (SEN/SEN/SEN) switch to withstand a lot of the higher end enemy attacks.
 
Based on the information released to date, Versus actually has a structure much more akin to older FFs, not the sort of interlinked single-scale world present in XII.
It's XII without zones, not giant character walking over a miniaturized map. That's sounds like an improvement to me.
 
Strategy only really works in an RPG like XIII when you actually have enemies that pose a threat, which seems to be a pretty big problem in XIII-2. Moreover, using roles in such a fashion isn't even something unique to XIII-2; you pretty much had to use the Tortoise paradigm (SEN/SEN/SEN) switch to withstand a lot of the higher end enemy attacks.

I didn't say the role utilization was unique, but the fact that it's lightning quick makes it a viable strategy.
 
I didn't say the role utilization was unique, but the fact that it's lightning quick makes it a viable strategy.

True, but then things start to turn on the usability of classes like SEN besides that, but that's a different subject. With that said, I do agree that was one of XIII's strengths.
 
...paying attention to what I'm looking at? I honestly don't know where to start here.
You're trying to make it seem like your opinion is the opinion of the majority of potential FF buyers. It's pretty clear even with a superficial glance around different forums that people don't hate Versus XIII's character designs and there are quite a lot of people who already like many of them, some of them people who hate some of XIII's characters with a passion. I mean, there are far more Noctis & Stella avatars used around the web than there ever were for anyone from XIII (except maybe Lightning, at one time). What's really so bad about this kind of character design that it would bring up some ZOMG BAD ANIMUUU WON'T BUY reactions from people who might be even remotely interested in a Final Fantasy game?

MZL4x.jpg


I think he looks fairly normal and hasn't acted in an annoying way in any of the trailers (like, say, Snow & his "I'm a HERO" antics). I don't think it's wrong to think he looks kind of cool and might be that way even for people who don't like FF in general. This kind of slightly more mature/realistic anime-style is one that could look good even to people who aren't normally interested in Final Fantasy.



Based on the information released to date, Versus actually has a structure much more akin to older FFs, not the sort of interlinked single-scale world present in XII.
No, it's more like XII's, but with some improvements that the better technology makes possible (like the whole no loading screens other than maybe when switching between bigger areas or moving from field to city, being able to fly & drive around etc.). They BEGAN the project with testing a more old school world map (though, still much bigger in scope than something like FFVII), but IIRC they changed their mind already during the pre-development phase and decided to go with a more FFXII like approach where fields are in the same scale as the cities/dungeons.



Because with over three years of full-team development and years of small-team work and pre-production beforehand it's still not in any shape to show publicly, much less let people play it.
Well, it was 3 years of development with a mid-sized team (if I'm not completely wrong, didn't Nomura say the team has been around 40-50 members strong until ~Summer 2011 or so, when they started to build up the size of the team for the final crunch phase in development). That's kind of small for a game of this size, so it's not all doom & gloom when it has taken this long.

And.. uhh.. Versus XIII has been in a shape where it could be shown for a long time now (and a fairly stable & polished looking build of the game WAS shown of it in January 2011, if you haven't forgotten...), it's just the PR/Marketing department who are holding it back because they don't want people to ignore the games that are coming out in the near future. Nomura has even said so, how he'd like to show it, but how it's "not yet Versus XIII's time". I had hoped it would be "Versus XIII's time" at Jump Festa this year since XIII-2 & Type-0 would be out by then but apparently they might still be holding it back (maybe until XIII-2 is released in the west). Still, I wouldn't be surprised if they ("re")revealed Final Fantasy Versus XIII in January/February 2012 with a release date revealed for late Q2/early Q3 2012.
 
I'd rather see the FF series die off than become more "western friendly"... but seriously, people loved the classic FF games due to their awesome stories, likeable characters, refined turn-based gameplay and upgrade systems, interesting settings, and plethora of optional content/sidequests/minigames... a mixture of super-seriousness and lightheartedness... S-E just needs to recapture what made those old games great. Another "throwback" similar to 9 would be just what the series needs to recoup IMO.

Start with FF15 being a throwback-esque game with an atb-ish battle system, charming art direction, and all that other stuff I mentioned...

Then make FF5 and 6 remakes on 3DS.

Finally, cool it off on the spinoffs and porting FF1/2/4 to everything up to my microwave for a while.
 
For me...

1 - Ignore/Stop any attempts to westernize it.
2 - Bring me back a classic battle system
3 - I would like a party of 5 again.
4 - FFXII world type, feels explorable without being stupid open world garbage.
5 - Ignore the west, but still release it here.
6 - Faster release cycle
7 - Gran Pulse.... But I think that's FFXIII-2.
 
I'm all for a throwback to swords and sorcery.

Even though I wasn't a fan of the gambit system, I really think FFXII with a better story and plot would have been the perfect FF. The thing that enrages me about the story complaints about FFXII are the people that complain that it was boring because it was “too political”. Did we play the same game? FFXII is as poltical as the Phantom Menace. It makes FFT look like Shakespeare's Titus or the Witcher in comparison. The thing that bugged me about FFXII is they had the perfect setting but under utilized villians and protagonists. Basch should have been the main character. The plot should have not revolved around stones.
 
FFXV should:

1. Retain the similarity and speed of XIII's battle system, but this time the characters take turns (aka FFIV-FFIX's ATB).

2. Have a world similar to FFXII, but not overdo it. Simply a "slightly dumbed down" world of FFXII (FFXII is too massive though). Variety is important.

3. Nice graphics of course.

4. If you put a love story, make it interesting and you actually care about the characters (FFX did a decent job with this, especially at what happened in the English ending).

5. Return of classic elements such as the world map (although I'm okay without this) and the crystal/end/chocobo/victory theme.

6. Finally, Nojima will do the story, Toriyama either out or demoted to "Scenario Planner".
 
I'm all for a throwback to swords and sorcery.

Even though I wasn't a fan of the gambit system, I really think FFXII with a better story and plot would have been the perfect FF. The thing that enrages me about the story complaints about FFXII are the people that complain that it was boring because it was “too political”. Did we play the same game? FFXII is as poltical as the Phantom Menace. It makes FFT look like Shakespeare's Titus or the Witcher in comparison. The thing that bugged me about FFXII is they had the perfect setting but under utilized villians and protagonists. Basch should have been the main character. The plot should have not revolved around stones.

This was the biggest letdown after that glorious opening movie. When the end credits started rolling I was like "Man, that was it? WTF even happened?".
 
Release Versus, then we can talk about what's next :<

Hey Kagari, what can you suggest for the next FF (similar to charlequin's post)? :P
 
Number one. Competent writer who can write a conversational script and build a narrative that evokes emotions rather than facepalms.

The core gameplay is great in FFXIII. They needed to allow more customization with weapons/armors.
I agree with this. The writing and characters in FFXIII was something awful and I am not a picky man when it comes to stories or characters. Stop it with the fashion show, overly elaborate feminine hairstyles for the guys, stop with the emo characters, stop with the cars, jets and guns.

Final Fantasy needs to go back to it's roots. Give me swords, castles, magic, crystals, dungeons, an airship that looks like a pirate ship, an orchestrated soundtrack (as in not techno or rock) and maybe even a light and fun atmosphere.

Simply put, Final Fantasy needs to be a fantasy game again.
 
I agree with this. The writing and characters in FFXIII was something awful and I am not a picky man when it comes to stories or characters. Stop it with the fashion show, overly elaborate feminine hairstyles for the guys, stop with the emo characters, stop with the cars, jets and guns.

Final Fantasy needs to go back to it's roots. Give me swords, castles, magic, crystals, dungeons, an airship that looks like a pirate ship, an orchestrated soundtrack (as in not techno or rock) and maybe even a light and fun atmosphere.

Final Fantasy needs to be a fantasy game again.

There's still plenty of orchestra left in the series. The music is one thing that needs to keep going in the direction that it is.
 
Despite what a large portion of the west thinks, Nomura has nothing to do with the quality of Final Fantasy games outside Crisis Core & Dissidia where he was the creative producer and soon Versus which is his debut FF game.

He had nothing to do with FFXIII's disaster, or FFXIV's disaster, or FFXII's semi-disaster, or most of the FF spinoffs.

Yes, he did some art for them. SE says "make pretty boy" and he draws one for the game. He has nothing to do with the story/character/gameplay concepts.

The person you want to FIRE and take blame for FFXIII (and The 3rd Birthday script nonsense) is Toriyama. He wrote those and directed XIII (which is why 3rd Birthday played better, since he didn't direct that one).

Nomura always gets so much undeserved hate from the FF franchise just because he does their character art.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Toriyama's the king fuck-up who keeps ruining mainline FF games, not Nomura. Hell, the few games Nomura's actually been directly responsible for and not just people on the internet thinking he's responsible for, most folks liked and did well sales-wise.

What I think should happen to the next FF game to make it not suck:

1. Fire Toriyama. Immediately. Nojima can write (I'd say Matsuno but they were stupid enough to let him go).

2. FFXII-style open world, with the shitload of FFXII-style side quests and extras.

3. Stop trying to "Westernize" the game.

4. Make characters people care about again. Lightning was the worst main character in an FF game, like ever.

5. Focus everything on making that one game good and complete, with no need of sequels/novels/whatever other cash grabs SE has been using recently. Don't write the story with the expectation of a sequel.
 
I don't get the Nomura hate. Nomura made a new IP which was a blockbuster (Kingdom Hearts) which has a strong following. What did Toriyama do?

4. Make characters people care about again. Lightning was the worst main character in an FF game, like ever.

You forgot about Vaan. See, that's how unmemorable he is. :P

Seriously, I like the world of FFXII but not the gameplay. Slighty dumbed down world of FFXII + FFXIII's tweaked battle system will do wonders.
 
I don't get the Nomura hate. Nomura made a new IP which was a blockbuster (Kingdom Hearts) which has a strong following. What did Toriyama do?



You forgot about Vaan. See, that's how unmemorable he is. :P

Seriously, I like the world of FFXII but not the gameplay. Slighty dumbed down world of FFXII + FFXIII's tweaked battle system will do wonders.


Having played XII, I just don't even see how Vaan can be considered the main character of that entry. His role in the overall story is pretty small.
 
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