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"What's the big deal about Sin & Punishment?"

Stormbringer

Member
Feb 28, 2006
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Well, holy shit, I'm pretty surprised of how much I like this game so far. I haven't played a 3D rail shooter since...uh...Starfox 64 ? years ago, which I loved, and I thought this wasn't my thing anymore - lapsed gamer, and all that... but, damn, I'm loving that.

Well, I suck at it though. But I'm getting on, little by little.
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
Jun 9, 2004
38,484
0
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42
NJ, USA
As I said in one of the recent S&P threads, I largely consider this Star Fox 64's spiritual sequel, certainly moreso than any and every other Star Fox that came after.
 

kottila

Member
Jan 22, 2007
4,858
0
895
CoolS said:
Ok, I'm starting to get the hang of it a bit more.

I used Type 3 on the cc which is something like this:

R/L -- used for left/right movement
stick used for aiming
b used for shooting
a jumping
something else for switching modes.

Works pretty good for me. I'll have to try with me Wavebird tomorrow.
Just tried the real game and died on the second mini boss, this strange beast like thing. Couldn't figure out how to beat it ^^.
Really a nice game so far, I like the music.

yeah. type 3 definately worked best for me. game over on easy at the first (?) carrier level. it's fun, but my shooter skills are lacking. i don't have a slightest idea about what the story is though
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
Jun 9, 2004
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I wish I could experience the carrier level for the first time again, like some of you are now.
 

Stormbringer

Member
Feb 28, 2006
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Mejilan said:
As I said in one of the recent S&P threads, I largely consider this Star Fox 64's spiritual sequel, certainly moreso than any and every other Star Fox that came after.

Interesting. This would explain why it seems so familiar to me...Anyway, if this game is at least as good as SF64, well, damn, this is going to be great.
 

Joe Molotov

Member
Nov 25, 2005
16,081
1
1,500
Mejilan said:
As I said in one of the recent S&P threads, I largely consider this Star Fox 64's spiritual sequel, certainly moreso than any and every other Star Fox that came after.

I feel the same way. I loved Star Fox 64, it was so much fun and I could replay it over and over and never get tired of it. When played Sin & Punishment, I got the same feeling as when I was playing Star Fox 64. Those are the only two 3D shooters (or any kind of shooters, to be honest) that I had that much fun with.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Dec 19, 2006
16,849
1
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Atlanta, GA, USA
I still don't get why the Starfox comparison is so prevalent. For some reason I never made that connection. Comparing Sin & Punishment to Starfox and Panzer Dragoon is like lumping shmups and sidescrolling run-and-gunners together. There's a very distinct difference, to me.
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
Jun 9, 2004
38,484
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42
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Joe Molotov said:
I feel the same way. I loved Star Fox 64, it was so much fun and I could replay it over and over and never get tired of it. When played Sin & Punishment, I got the same feeling as when I was playing Star Fox 64. Those are the only two 3D shooters (or any kind of shooters, to be honest) that I had that much fun with.

Yep. Though I'd rank the original Star Fox up there as well. They're my trifecta, and definitely warmly-recalled standby titles that I tend to come back to again and again, well after my love affair for other similar kinds of games (Colony Wars series) expired.
 

giggas

Member
Mar 14, 2007
1,071
1
0
It's funny, I was absolutely positive this game wouldn't come out on the VC outside of Japan. In fact, I actually hunted down the game down back in Jan when I had my honeymoon in Japan.

Needless to say, it's a pretty cool game, though I'm not sure if I'd put it up there on "this is freaking mind blowing" scale. I'm a huge fan of on rails shooters like this, but this game was built around a dual analog setup. The cumbersome controls never really felt right. Which leads me to my next point, on the VC and with the classic Controller, this game might just become amazing. I have no problem spending another couple dollars on this game to play it the way it was intended to be played, and through component cables (since all N64 games look like trash on an HDTV).
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Dec 19, 2006
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giggas said:
this game was built around a dual analog setup.
Like hell it was. There's no reason for the character movement to be anything but digital. Double-tapping to dash would suck royally on a stick instead of d-pad / face buttons.
 

Stormbringer

Member
Feb 28, 2006
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Holy shit, GAME OVER :lol . I finally died a bit after the carrier stage... I have watched a video of this stage a while ago on Youtube, so I knew that it was pretty cool, but it's pretty FREAKING intense while playing yourself :eek: .
Anyway, fantastic game. Will replay when my index finger hurts less :lol .
 

Jiggy

Member
Sep 10, 2005
12,563
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I was already convinced to buy after seeing the Carrier stage on YouTube, but Star Fox comparisons make me happy also. Monday, please. :(
 

nix_nz

Neo Member
Mar 23, 2005
241
0
0
41
Sydney
Armada said:
Nope, it's 60Hz.

I love you so much right now, Nintendo. :D

Which leads me to believe, and this is the wrong place for it I know, but: are Megadrive games 60Hz now due to updates, or still all 50Hz? My Wii hasn't been set up for ages (I haven't had a permanent address) but I'm going to be getting it out again tonight. :)
 

Tristam

Member
Apr 16, 2007
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1,015
Bebpo said:
It's a pretty good game even today, but boy does it look and run like shit. Would be awesome if it was "enhanced" on the VC to run smoother.

Chugging at certain junctions is part of the charm of older shooters.











:(
 

Tsubaki

Member
Jun 23, 2004
2,575
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0
When I first read the thread title, I was gonna go postal. But then I see it is a tribute thread to the greatest Treasure game.

Best action game ever made.
 

JoDark

MS Viral Marketing
Aug 6, 2004
608
0
0
It's crazzzzzzzzy that this game and Bangaio didn't come out in the US on the N64; forcing me to import:) They were Nintendo games released in Japan, but not America??? Right up there with taking years to bring over Famicom Wars and Fire Emblem.

Anyway. It's excellent that this game is finally coming over, and Bangaio is getting a DS remake.

Play this game VC fans. It's brilliant. The flying ship level is still one of the most insane moments of the 90's gaming times. You will see and understand!
 

Zeed

Banned
Apr 23, 2006
8,122
0
0
Tristam said:
Assuming that this comes to North America, this will be my first VC game.
Yeah, same here. The GAF Hype Train is moving at full speed. All aboard!

...

How much is 1200 points in human money? Do I need a classic controller or will a GC one suffice?
 

rollingstart

Banned
Dec 12, 2006
38,761
4
0
eviloreisarapist
Zeed said:
Yeah, same here. The GAF Hype Train is moving at full speed. All aboard!

...

How much is 1200 points in human money? Do I need a classic controller or will a GC one suffice?

1200 points is $12, Gamecube controller might actually be a bit better than CC in this case.
 

Zeed

Banned
Apr 23, 2006
8,122
0
0
Linkzg said:
1200 points is $12, Gamecube controller might actually be a bit better than CC in this case.
Cool. $12 isn't bad at all, I dunno what people are bitching about here.

Better come to NA.
 

Tain

Member
Jun 13, 2004
24,280
4
1,555
horizonvanguard.com
Best game in the genre, I think. At least, the best modern-ish one. I really like Space Harrier, after all.

Sixfortyfive said:
Questions? Disagreements? Did I miss anything?
Sure as hell doesn't look like it. I was pretty shocked at how much detail was in the post, but then I realized that I recognized your name from SF Kosmo.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Dec 19, 2006
16,849
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Vard said:
There's a multiplayer mode in the game, right? If so, is it a co-op mode?
There's a half-assed 2-player mode, I think. One player controls the movement of the on-screen character while the other player aims and shoots. I've never tried it myself.
 

Stormbringer

Member
Feb 28, 2006
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Just finished it. Some thoughts :

-the plot is absolutely fucking ridiculous.
-I recall someone mentioning in one thread that the music was like a mix of 80's anime music and ambiant porn music. That's pretty much spot on :lol . I...I think I kind of like it, actually. So cheesy.
-the visuals are surprisingly sharp. Really, really clean (for a N64 game).
-Some breathtaking stages.
-I said WOW.

I started doubtful of this game's appeal because I was far from sure that it would appeal to me, but well, turns out my doubts were unfounded ! Because in the end, this is such a great and extremely fun game, and I recommend it to every single Wii owner out there - on condition on if the game is available for your region of course :p. Hopefully, most people will have the chance to experience it.
The main game (started on easy mode) was relatively short, but considering the type of pure arcade game it is, I can see myself replaying it a LOT of times over on the various difficulty levels.
 

Zeed

Banned
Apr 23, 2006
8,122
0
0
The more I find out about this game the more I want to play it. I've actually been itching for a rail shooter for a while now, and I'm really hoping that NoA has the sense to bring it out. There's really no reason I can imagine not to. Just give us what the Europeans got.
 

polyh3dron

Banned
Jan 14, 2007
41,965
3
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djtiesto said:
I think people have come to the realization (after Stretch Panic) that Treasure isn't invincible and is more than capable of their fair share of stinkers



Stinker indeed.
 

mclem

Member
Jan 16, 2007
42,665
4
1,190
Linkzg said:
1200 points is $12, Gamecube controller might actually be a bit better than CC in this case.

I've tried both, and I think I prefer the CC; the squishy triggers on the GC controller don't really lend themselves to quick double-presses, I feel.

What should I know about in terms of plot when starting the game, that is, just how much information does the manual give you? I've got to 2-1 so far (in typical gung-ho biting off more than I can chew, jumping straight to Normal difficulty without learning the game first), and while I can just about glean bits of what's going on, it's really not all that much, and all the various characters involved are confusing me.

SPOILER for 1-3 (not related to above, just a gameplay query):
I've completed this level already, but only through having enough health to survive the tidal waves - how are you meant to dodge them?
 

mclem

Member
Jan 16, 2007
42,665
4
1,190
Mejilan said:
Uh... double jump.

Um. Visually, it looked far too big to me to actually have any chance of clearing it with a double-jump, so I was convinced that was the wrong path. Oops...
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
Jun 9, 2004
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If you get hit by the heavier parts of the wave, you'll take damage. But you CAN safely get your feet a little wet, you know. Try it some time! :lol
 

Zeed

Banned
Apr 23, 2006
8,122
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Does Nintendo follow a predictable schedule for VC updates? I'm hoping this comes in the next NA batch.
 

Sapiens

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Mar 10, 2005
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One of the VERY few games (if not the only one) to really nail down Run and Gun gemeplay in a 3d environment.

Also: This game is nothing like Star Fox gameplay wise. Only a Nintendo Idiot would say that.
 

Squeak

Member
Jun 9, 2004
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Sixfortyfive said:
Sin & Punishment is a well-crafted arcade shooting game slightly marred by lackluster visuals, bad music and sound, and hideous voice acting. If you're a fan of classic Contra-esque run-and-gunners, and as long as the VC port doesn't fuck anything up, I'd be hard-pressed to think of a reason not to recommend this game.
Wow, I didn't think it possible for a human to be so wrong...
I'm flabbergasted and don't know where to begin. :)

Well, first off the music is awesome. It might not be your style (which is completely beyond me) but within its domain it's as good as it gets.

I've have a feeling that people who criticize this kind of music with the such scorn, really is secretly enjoying it and is just afraid to admit it to the supposedly "cool" side of themselves, that was raised on indie and "difficult listening" where the mantra is "if it sounds immediately good it's not worth your time".

And the porn music accusation is just ridiculous. Whether it has a similarity to some music heard in certain european porn flicks I don't know, but to write off an entire genre because of the arbitrary association with porn, is really unfair and stupid.

This is synth-fusion at it's very best, combining classic electronic harmonies plucking at your heartstrings, with airy casual pop funk/jazz and the controlled aggressive energy of electric guitar.

This is the kind of music that makes you feel like the greatest hero ever while playing.

The graphics are a perfect example of art over technology.
In the same way a great artist can create works of great beauty with simple tools like a pencil and watercolours, or even black ink on white paper as in Japanese and Chinese calligraphy, this game works with the limitations and particularities of the available technology, instead of stubbornly pushing against them.
The style, which can best be described as shredded polygons, perfectly captures Suzuki's scrawly, sketchy style.

The voice acting is bad in the good way and I have a strong feeling it's entirely on purpose.
It never grinds or becomes irritating, it always serves to give life and personality to the characters.

The story while not a masterpiece of shakespearean writing (show me a game story that truly is) is nevertheless compelling enough in its own way, revealing hidden depths with every playthrough. What was at first confused and non sequitur, slowly makes a vague emblematic kind of sense.
And for those who don't know it, the game was originally called Glass Soldier during development, but the title was changed when a plot similarity to Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment was seen.
And as someone who has read the book, I have to say (without drawing any qualitative comparisons) it's not too far fetched.

I wholeheartedly recommend Sin and Punishment, in every aspect. It's one of the four best games ever made for the platform and the greatest railshooter ever.
 

Sapiens

Member
Mar 10, 2005
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Sixfortyfive said:
Sin & Punishment is a well-crafted arcade shooting game slightly marred by lackluster visuals, bad music and sound, and hideous voice acting. If you're a fan of classic Contra-esque run-and-gunners, and as long as the VC port doesn't fuck anything up, I'd be hard-pressed to think of a reason not to recommend this game.

You are absolutely correct and not a sad sack, overweight, still living in his mother's vagina Nintendo fangirl.

The next post is soooo wrong, it hurts.

Squeak said:
Wow, I didn't think it possible for a human to be so wrong...
I'm flabbergasted and don't know where to begin. :)

Well, first off the music is awesome. It might not be your style (which is completely beyond me) but within its domain it's as good as it gets.

I've have a feeling that people who criticize this kind of music with the such scorn, really is secretly enjoying it and is just afraid to admit it to the supposedly "cool" side of themselves, that was raised on indie and "difficult listening" where the mantra is "if it sounds immediately good it's not worth your time".

And the porn music accusation is just ridiculous. Whether it has a similarity to some music heard in certain european porn flicks I don't know, but to write off an entire genre because of the arbitrary association with porn, is really unfair and stupid.

This is synth-fusion at it's very best, combining classic electronic harmonies plucking at your heartstrings, with airy casual pop funk/jazz and the controlled aggressive energy of electric guitar.

This is the kind of music that makes you feel like the greatest hero ever while playing.

The graphics are a perfect example of art over technology.
In the same way a great artist can create works of great beauty with simple tools like a pencil and watercolours, or even black ink on white paper as in Japanese and Chinese calligraphy, this game works with the limitations and particularities of the available technology, instead of stubbornly pushing against them.
The style, which can best be described as shredded polygons, perfectly captures Suzuki's scrawly, sketchy style.

The voice acting is bad in the good way and I have a strong feeling it's entirely on purpose.
It never grinds or becomes irritating, it always serves to give life and personality to the characters.

The story while not a masterpiece of shakespearean writing (show me a game story that truly is) is nevertheless compelling enough in its own way, revealing hidden depths with every playthrough. What was at first confused and non sequitur, slowly makes a vague emblematic kind of sense.
And for those who don't know it, the game was originally called Glass Soldier during development, but the title was changed when a plot similarity to Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment was seen.
And as someone who has read the book, I have to say (without drawing any qualitative comparisons) it's not too far fetched.

I wholeheartedly recommend Sin and Punishment, in every aspect. It's one of the four best games ever made for the platform and the greatest railshooter ever.

Wow, leave it to a person with a Nintendo Avatar to focus on unimportant things. In S&P - Gameplay is king, and while the graphics can be good for the N64, they are ultimately lacking. Blame the hardware not the progs.

The music, story and voice acting are all shit. That stuff is unimportant, really. Story in games is pointless.

Play S&P for the gameplay and nothing else. It's really, really good. You'll be sorely disappointed otherwise.
 

Corwood Rep

Member
Jun 11, 2004
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I'm just going to butt in and mention that Sin & Punishment is pretty much fucking amazing and one of my top 10 N64 games. So whenever this hits VC in your territory of choice, download it HARD.
 

Squeak

Member
Jun 9, 2004
2,052
0
0
Sapiens said:
You are absolutely correct and not a sad sack, overweight, still living in his mother's vagina Nintendo fangirl.
Wait, what?! Are you trying to be insulting? :lol Talking about sad...

Wow, leave it to a person with a Nintendo Avatar to focus on unimportant things. In S&P - Gameplay is king, and while the graphics can be good for the N64, they are ultimately lacking. Blame the hardware not the progs.

The music, story and voice acting are all shit. That stuff is unimportant, really. Story in games is pointless.

Play S&P for the gameplay and nothing else. It's really, really good. You'll be sorely disappointed otherwise.
So I guess all the people raving about the aircraft carrier level would be just as happy shooting abstract shapes on a black background instead?

You can't separate graphics and sound completely from gameplay. Like pages in a book they can be held separately but they are joined in the back. They are different aspects of the whole of the game.

You don't criticize a pencil drawing for looking like a pencil drawing, you appreciate it for what it is. Likewise with an N64 game.

The graphics and music in this games is of very very high quality. Until you can intelligently argue why they are not, my word is worth more than yours.
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
Jun 9, 2004
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I'm not one to rush and agree with Sapiens, but Squeak's contributions to this thread are the very definition of wrong. Wow.
 

Teddman

Member
Jun 22, 2004
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www.the-nextlevel.com
Can anyone who's played both versions discuss the N64 pad control vs. the Wii's Classic Controller/GameCube pad controls?

I'd like to pick this up for convenience sake, so that I don't have to crack the N64 out of storage. But if the controls aren't dead-on (important in a twitch shooter), then I'll pass...