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[Barnabot]

I'm asking this because i don't think everyone has the same idea about those two. So that's why I'm interested into hearing your opinions.

Well i'll go first. If you ask me point-blank what is a 'lie' then I'd answer based on my life experience:

• A lie when perceived that is a lie is: from head to its tail everything claimed is false. It doesn't need context. It only needs the sign and meaning in order to communicate. The intent of the messenger who is sending the message is to deceive someone.

But let's not stop here yet and now let's take a look at what the dictionary says:

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

And what about false narratives or fake news?

• A false narrative(fake news) is like a contaminated lie imo: it's a story that needs the element of truth in that in order to become somewhat convincing and therefore it needs a context. The intent of the messenger(at least the original messenger) is also to deceive someone. It needs to pack the lie within some lines of truth so the false narrative can be accepted as the whole truth without people noticing that it contains a lie. So that's why I've come with this 'contaminated lie' term.

So that's my opinion. How about you guys?

 

[Happosai]

I'm asking this because i don't think everyone has the same idea about those two. So that's why I'm interested into hearing your opinions.

Well i'll go first. If you ask me point-blank what is a 'lie' then I'd answer based on my life experience:

• A lie when perceived that is a lie is: from head to its tail everything claimed is false. It doesn't need context. It only needs the sign and meaning in order to communicate. The intent of the messenger who is sending the message is to deceive someone.

But let's not stop here yet and now let's take a look at what the dictionary says:

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

And what about false narratives or fake news?

• A false narrative(fake news) is like a contaminated lie imo: it's a story that needs the element of truth in that in order to become somewhat convincing and therefore it needs a context. The intent of the messenger(at least the original messenger) is also to deceive someone. It needs to pack the lie within some lines of truth so the false narrative can be accepted as the whole truth without people noticing that it contains a lie. So that's why I've come with this 'contaminated lie' term.

So that's my opinion. How about you guys?

To me a lie is information submitted or presented by whatever means in complete falsehood.

E.g. -- "The Earth is flat." That is a lie and stupidity added as an extra. You don't even need to submit defense for a lie that pathetic, but "the internet" and ... um some people say it's true. Pardon my Spanish...pero es puro mentiras.

Now, fake news I lump into politics and conspiracy theories. Anything Alex Jones (InfoWars), anything without clear concrete indisputable evidence presented as news or sometimes as a leak; that's false news.

E.g. -- 5G retroactively caused the events of 9/11 to occur so the government could distract us and pollute our water with fluoride and destroy our air with contrai...er...chem-trails. That there is a whole steaming pile of false information and/or fake news.

Note: I don't really have a left or right political leaning. I just stay out of politics of sometimes watch politicians battle with some popcorn and a Freezee.

 

[iconmaster]

As you say, it's a matter of intention. And if we are talking about news, there are (still some) limits on what journalists can imply about a person. So "false narrative" would be a much safer claim than "lie," as false narrative leaves open the possibility of being mistaken.

Is that what you're getting at?

 

[-Arcadia-]

To me, a false narrative is just a specific kind of lie.

 

[Barnabot]

As you say, it's a matter of intention. And if we are talking about news, there are (still some) limits on what journalists can imply about a person. So "false narrative" would be a much safer claim than "lie," as false narrative leaves open the possibility of being mistaken.

Is that what you're getting at?

yes. i'd say a false narrative could have the fifty shades of intent according to the messenger.

To me, a false narrative is just a specific kind of lie.

but what kind of lie according to your point of view?

 

[Tesseract]

context and intent, what kind of lie is it (argument and magnitude), where is it coming from and for what reasons

ned stark lied to jon about his birthright, but he did it for the right reasons (or wrong)

 

[TaySan]

It's all about intention.

 

[Barnabot]

context and intent, what kind of lie is it (argument and magnitude), where is it coming from and for what reasons

ned stark lied to jon about his birthright, but he did it for the right reasons (or wrong)

well he did lie or else there wouldn' t be any jon snow alive. he did deceive everyone but saved a life. but catelyn stark thinking that ned had betrayed her because of jon snow... can we consider that being fake news?

 

[Tesseract]

well he did lie or else there wouldn' t be any jon snow alive. he did deceive everyone but saved a life. but catelyn stark thinking that ned had betrayed her because of jon snow... can we consider that being fake news?

not sure

i'm using an example i relate to, someone smarter and more attuned to the characters could provide an adequate answer

without the lie there's no jon, with the lie there's a remarkable man who changes the course of history (we all know the cost)

damned if you do or don't, i think

 

[Nester99]

A lie is a deliberate mistruth or material omission.

A false narrative is when true statements are viewed from an angle or said with a tone or that distorts the truth or removes context to blur the message.

 

[Amory]

Trump lies because he literally doesn't care about the truth.

The media and most other politicians spin stories and data and selectively pull quotes and facts to fit their own narrative

 

[HE1NZ]

False narrative is when you deliberately select a number of truths that would support the wrongful conclusion. The simplest example would be when words are taken out of context and pushed all over twitter.

 

[HE1NZ]

Trump lies because he literally doesn't care about the truth.

I don't think he ever told a lie. He exaggerates sometimes and makes small mistakes, but I don't think he ever intentionally told a straight up lie.

 

[obin_gam]

A lie is a lie is a lie.

If its not true, then its false. And if you say a false thing a puttning it forward as true, you lie.

 

[and 3 others]

I don't think he ever told a lie. He exaggerates sometimes and makes small mistakes, but I don't think he ever intentionally told a straight up lie.

He has. I remember at least half a dozen factually incorrect things he's said. He does lie however, to bait news media and other politicians to talk about what he wants to be discussed which otherwise wouldn't.

 

[Sakura]

It seems kinda explained in the OP there.
False statement vs false narrative.
A narrative is basically a story. A bunch of things/events that are connected.
For example, the statement "Trump colluded with the Russians" by itself might be a lie, but everything together trying to support the lie would be a false narrative. All the "evidence" that gets brought up, the quotes by various people, media spin and out of context bits, etc etc is all a part of the false narrative, in other words, the "story" of how Trump colluded with the Russians.

 

[MHubert]

It is way more simple than I think a lot of people would like it to be.
Saying something that isn't true does not constitute a lie unless there is a clear intention of misleading the perceiver (as in: X knows Y is not P -> X claim (communicate) Y is P). Lying is all about intentions as some here have already pointed out.

A false narrative is simply a story about reality that doesn't correlate with said reality, and is not necessarily dependant of there being a lie to begin with. It could simply be based on misinterpretation.

A lie is a lie is a lie.

If its not true, then its false. And if you say a false thing a puttning it forward as true, you lie.

To me a lie is information submitted or presented by whatever means in complete falsehood.

E.g. -- "The Earth is flat." That is a lie and stupidity added as an extra. You don't even need to submit defense for a lie that pathetic, but "the internet" and ... um some people say it's true. Pardon my Spanish...pero es puro mentiras.

None of these examples constitute a lie. 'The earth is flat' is a wrong statement that someone might believe to be true. It can only be considered a lie if it was part of some kind of conspiracy, in which case it would require one or more agents with the intention of organizing a lie, which is usually a pretty fruitless accusation unless you have some hardcore evidence.

I know people want to be able to blame others, who says or claim stuff they don't believe to be true, to be liars, and thus be able to leverage a more serious accusation at them than just accusing them of being misinformed, but by inflating the term you are watering out the onthology of what constitutes 'truth' in the first place.

Edited.