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[SD-Ness]

My friend's girlfriend recently found out he cheated on her. All she knows, however, is that he kissed another girl. (He has done worse stuff in the past but this kiss is the only recent indiscretion.) She broke up with him immediately (a few days ago) and has not taken him back yet.

Yesterday I was driving with this friend and another friend, and we got into a conversation that quickly escalated into a fight/debate about dating vs. marriage. Now he's pretty upset about the fact that she broke up with him, and it probably wasn't wise of me to defend my side so passionately in the moment. If I could go back, I probably wouldn't have even gotten myself into this position. But whatever.

Now I have a question for GAF: What's the difference between dating and marriage?

It was them against me. I stated that I don't see that big of a difference between dating and marriage, especially as far as cheating goes. (I guess one could say there are different levels of dating but what I mean is serious relationships that go beyond hooking up, etc. Relationships in which there is a level of commitment, in which marriage is being considered, and so on.) I said that if you want to hook up with another girl then you have a duty to break up with your current girlfriend or at least go on a temporary break with her or whatever. In the end, it's pretty simple to me: even though we're just "dating," I want to be treated a certain way (i.e., I don't want her to cheat on me), so I will treat her the same way.

To me marriage is more of a legal/financial/traditional thing. You are now legally and financially bound to this person and have formally announced your affection for her. I don't see why it would be OK to cheat on my girlfriend but not on my wife. (And honestly, I'm not so infatuated with the idea of marriage. I like the trend in the Scandinavian countries: less couples are getting married but they stay together longer than, for instance, their American counterparts. Again, I just think a commitment is a commitment.)

They disagreed with me and said that most guys would disagree too. They said since they're not married to a girl it means they can still hook up with other girls as long as they don't get caught. And, no the idea of an open relationship was never mentioned. They said that in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. What she doesn't know, won't hurt her. They're horny guys and want to make sure they have their fun before they get married. And also it's just not about fun, they want feel fulfilled before they settle down and get married -- make sure they don't have regret when they're 50. This just sounds like a double standard to me. Especially in that I'm pretty sure either one of them would break up with their girlfriends if they caught them cheating.

I agree with them about the fact that in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. If she doesn't find out, it won't hurt her. I don't believe in god, don't believe in divine punishment for immoral actions, don't believe in religious morality. But that's the thing. I feel very uncomfortable with their utilitarian approach to this issue compared to my more deontic one. Maybe it just comes down to personality, etc.

I asked them what the difference between dating and marriage is, and they said that marriage is when you make a real commitment, when you've agreed to spend the rest of your life together with someone. They definitely agreed that cheating on one's wife is wrong. Dating is when you really like one girl and want to spend a lot of time with her -- but it's still free for all as far as sex goes. I don't see this. It doesn't really seem like "dating" to me.

Another one of their criticisms of my opinion is that I'm not as experienced as they are -- which is true. I have had a girlfriend for four years and not a whole lot of experience with other girls before that. They said that if I was surrounded by more girls -- at bars or in clubs or anywhere really -- that I wouldn't be as confident about my commitment. I countered by saying that I still feel attracted to other girls but don't act on it. I don't know how I would be able to look her in the face after cheating no her. And then they also said that once you start cheating, it becomes easier.

So what does GAF think? Do you agree with my approach to dating/marriage or do you favor the approach of my friends?

I want to stress that I understand these are my own standards. I'm not interested in judging people. I don't want to turn this into a White Knights of GAF bragging thread. I'm much more interested in getting input from more than two people.

 

[Koomaster]

They said since they're not married to a girl it means they can still hook up with other girls as long as they don't get caught.

Your friends are pigs. If you have a serious relationship with someone, married or not, it's kind of in the fine print that you don't cheat on them unless you DO have an open relationship or some understanding there.

Edit: To add, I think when you enter into a dating relationship with someone, usually it is implied it's exclusive. I'm sure these guys girlfriends feel that way. If they don't want exclusivity, they should tell the girls up front they might be seeing someone else as well. Otherwise it's dishonest and takes advantage of their girlfriend's intentions in the relationship. Basically like you said, they would flip out if their girls went out with other guys. Their actions are a way to keep their girls faithful without actually being faithful themselves.

 

[NEOPARADIGM]

lol ...

No, it's not okay to cheat on your girlfriend.

I mean, it's called cheating.

 

[News Bot]

Marriage is a superficial "official" thing with a bunch of religious and legal footnotes.

To be honest, all relationships are the same to me. Some may be more serious or casual, but that really just depends on the person. The only constant is DON'T MOTHERFUCKING CHEAT.

 

[lljride]

Yeah dude, this one's pretty cut and dry. There's plenty of differences between dating and marriage, but just in regards to cheating? Commitment is commitment, no difference if you cheat on your bf/gf or spouse. I'm really not sure where your friends are coming from with this tbh.

 

[Deified Data]

Marriage is a superficial "official" thing with a bunch of religious and legal footnotes.

To be honest, all relationships are the same to me. Some may be more serious or casual, but that really just depends on the person. The only constant is DON'T MOTHERFUCKING CHEAT.

Yeah, pretty much. I love my girlfriend, but no amount of legal documents and/or expensive ceremonies, religious or otherwise, is going to make me love her more. Faithfulness and commitment are perfectly possible outside of marriage.

 

[Nix]

Marriage and Dating are the same in that, it's never alright to cheat. Ever.

The single greatest difference to me would have to be the lowering of personal pretenses by your significant other. That, and the quality of cooking. My brother's current wife used to make 5 star meals, every single day, but gradually it went into a steady decline until the food pretty much became the comparison between a five star hotel and Mcdonalds. I'm not saying much, just that GF> Wife.

Oh, and the decrease in sex drive as sex becomes more of a commodity, and less of a rare incentive. I see this in alot of couples, but not all of them. Some of them are disgustingly still going at it like before they were married, so take from it what you will.

 

[Jaladinozozo]

In the end it doesn't matter, one way or another at some point you will be cheated on, if you find out or not is the question. And theres many types of cheating, it doesn't have to be just physical, sometimes mental cheating can be just as fullfilling to the person. I think what it comes down too is what you believe in and how you feel about yourself while and after you do it. Does it give you that rush thats missing in your relationship? Or do you feel guilty and like a complete piece of shit after the act is done and you have to be with your significant other.

If youre dating and youre in love, you probably wont cheat when things are going good and you really love the girl/guy. When things go bad or you have constant fights or arguments, and you realize theres other people out there and this isn't it for you in life. You have options, you don't have to be so dedicated and faithful to this one person that was nobody to you before you met them.

I don't think being married gives people less of a reason to cheat. Its a lot like dating actually, when things are going good youre less likey to even have the desire to cheat, but just like in dating when things go to shit, and in a marrige they go to shit much worse than when youre just dating, the probability to cheat is likely 10x worse than when youre dating. Once again, just because youre married doesn't mean youre with this person for life, divorce is always an option, and once again theres other people out there, the limiting factor is that if youre married most likely you are much older and have less options than a young person thats dating.

 

[Lambtron]

The only difference is the privilege granted to a married couple by the state. Nothing has changed in my wife & I's relationship since we got married. I wouldn't cheat on her before, and I wouldn't now.

 

[Zoe]

Your friends disgust me.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Well, for me dating means no sex and marriage means yes, much sex, so there's that anyway.

 

[Jaladinozozo]

white knight gaf in full force

 

[Deified Data]

In the end it doesn't matter, one way or another at some point you will be cheated on, if you find out or not is the question.

Semantics. Cheating is physical and emotional - simply thinking about it does not qualify, as we are not in complete control of our thoughts. Your opinion (and it is one) is horribly generalized.

 

[sixteen-bit]

If you liked it then you should have put a ring on it.

 

[ultron87]

Cheating on your spouse/long term partner is worse than cheating on someone you've been on a few dates with. Either way it is still extremely shitty to do.

 

[Tornado Condor]

You just can't simply have sex with other people while you date someone. That's a ridiculous way of thinking.

 

[Jaladinozozo]

Semantics. Cheating is physical and emotional - simply thinking about it does not qualify, as we are not in complete control of our thoughts. Your opinion (and it is one) is horribly generalized.

cheating can be emotional, it doesn't have to be physical. what if the person you were with was in love with someone else, but they just never acted on it. do you think thats cheating? Whats worse, them being in love with someone else while staying with you, or them having no feelings for someone but hooking up with them and forgetting about them the next week.

 

[The Technomancer]

I really cannot see how cheating is anything other then the cowards way out. If you feel stronger about someone else to the point that you are willing to cheat on your partner then you own up and deal with the consequences. Thats part of being an adult.

 

[Plywood]

Your friends are douchebags.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Well, for me dating means no sex and marriage means yes, much sex, so there's that anyway.

Why?

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Why?

Religious + Personal Reasons

 

[The Albatross]

Commitment.

The long-term, be here forever, 'till death do us part kind. Dating relationships can end.

But, generally, I might take a more serious approach to marriage. I would only marry somebody who takes it as seriously as I do.

 

[Plywood]

If you're not in an open relationship and your sleeping with other people then you are a douchebag.

 

[Deified Data]

cheating can be emotional, it doesn't have to be physical. what if the person you were with was in love with someone else, but they just never acted on it. do you think thats cheating? Whats worse, them being in love with someone else while staying with you, or them having no feelings for someone but hooking up with them and forgetting about them the next week.

As my post stated, cheating is physical and emotional. I didn't discount the emotional aspect of cheating, and agree that emotional cheating is much more damaging to a relationship than physical cheating. So, no, we're not disagreeing on that point. What we're disagreeing on is the inevitability of it.

 

[spiderman123]

If you're not in an open relationship and your sleeping with other people then you are a douchebag.

.

 

[Fugu]

They disagreed with me and said that most guys would disagree too. They said since they're not married to a girl it means they can still hook up with other girls as long as they don't get caught.

I would never date someone with this attitude. Not a chance. These people strike me as pigs.

I think the difference between marriage and dating comes down to the people around you and their perceptions of the difference. I don't think that there are many people today who intrinsically think that the two are substantially different, but if you are part of a family that takes marriage seriously, you may find yourself more obligated to make a marriage work than a long-term relationship.

 

[Jaladinozozo]

all of you guys are so strong in your anti-cheating stances/beliefs. not saying theres anything wrong with that, its just that most people you can never fully trust, and you never know whats gonna happen in life and who the person youre with really is, and if you do ever get cheated on its going to suck so much more for you because of how strong your stance and belief agaisnt it is.

dating is dating, even if youve been together for years, youre still dating, hence the word itself. the option of dating or seeing other people is still there. in the end people are going to do what they want, not abide by your morals and what you believe in.

 

[Recarpo]

If you're not in an open relationship and your sleeping with other people then you are a douchebag.

Pretty much my perfect definition. Don't screw somebody else while you're in a relationship unless it's clear to both people it's an open relationship.

 

[kehs]

If there's a difference between dating and marriage, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Buckethead]

FYI, Marriage was essentially a civil union of sorts in the Bible.
Sure there's religious/spiritual elements but the act of marriage itself was secular.
No priest and pomp and circumstance...

But in the modern day there's not much of a difference, unfortunately.

Marriage is supposed to be permanent through the ups-and-downs, *eternal*.
That's why the ring is circular and not broken, it symbolizes a infinite loop.

Also, your friend is a hypocrite.

 

[DanteFox]

Dating is what you do with people in order to see if you want to marry them. If you're not married and have no current intention of marrying, then kissing another girl is not immoral while if you're married (or engaged I guess) it is.

 

[Jaladinozozo]

If there's a difference between dating and marriage, you're doing it wrong.

lol? dating is the social aspect and interaction of meeting the opposite sex for a huge number of reasons from just having fun to finding the right person for you.

marriage is NOT dating, marriage is a religious and cultural institution with implications of life long commitment, vows, children, family etc

the two couldnt be farther fuckin apart from each other

 

[Bigfoot]

The single greatest difference to me would have to be the lowering of personal pretenses by your significant other. That, and the quality of cooking. My brother's current wife used to make 5 star meals, every single day, but gradually it went into a steady decline until the food pretty much became the comparison between a five star hotel and Mcdonalds. I'm not saying much, just that GF> Wife.

Oh, and the decrease in sex drive as sex becomes more of a commodity, and less of a rare incentive. I see this in alot of couples, but not all of them. Some of them are disgustingly still going at it like before they were married, so take from it what you will.

That has nothing to do with marriage but more to do with just being with someone for a long time. Getting married does not automatically mean those things will change unless the wife was just doing those things in hopes of gettting married (not that likely these days). What does change things a lot is having kids, married or not!

 

[Davedough]

The difference between dating and marriage?

Dating: She'll have an insatiable sexual appetite and willing to do things for you that no other girl would dream of, and do it well.

Marriage: She makes you wait for months on end for 1 night of slightly above mediocre sex meanwhile blaming the kids, or work, or the fact that she's tired all the time, or finances, or stress or whatever other excuse she likes to throw on top of it, but then erupts if you ever call her out on it.

Now, I'll read the OP and figure out the real reply.

 

[ampere]

Unless you're in a specified 'open relationship', the assumption is that cheating is not OK.

At least, that's how I see things.

 

[Affeinvasion]

I will say that personally the relationship between me and my wife didn't really change when we got married. We were not living together before we got married and I think that was the largest change plus moving far away from where we both call home.

This is coming from an anthropologist, but for me one of the biggest differences between dating and marriage comes from the recognition of the community around you. People will treat you differently, whether you deserve it or not, because ignoring the before God part of a religious marriage, what you are really doing is announcing your commitment to each before a group of peers and your community. It's one thing to have a personal commitment to somebody, and another to declare those same sentiments in public.

Also you should still date when you're married...any married people will tell you that you have to continually work on your relationship. Being married doesn't mean you're "done".

 

[kehs]

.

 

[weekend_warrior]

legal papers.

 

[btkadams]

cheating isn't outlawed by marriage. it's outlawed when you're in a monogamous relationship with someone. your friends are morons. thinking it's ok to cheat on someone without them knowing? that's scum material.

 

[Cereal KiIIer]

Your friends are douchebags. Let me guess, they have an orange tan and a v neck shirt?

 

[Fenderputty]

all of you guys are so strong in your anti-cheating stances/beliefs. not saying theres anything wrong with that, its just that most people you can never fully trust, and you never know whats gonna happen in life and who the person youre with really is, and if you do ever get cheated on its going to suck so much more for you because of how strong your stance and belief agaisnt it is.

dating is dating, even if youve been together for years, youre still dating, hence the word itself. the option of dating or seeing other people is still there. in the end people are going to do what they want, not abide by your morals and what you believe in.

If you can't beat em' joing em'?

Regardless of your own moral convictions?

Got ya.

 

[MThanded]

Its called cheating bruh cheating.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Also you should still date when you're married...any married people will tell you that you have to continually work on your relationship. Being married doesn't mean you're "done".

There was another thread about this topic, but that's crap I say. If you're in a good relationship, there's no working on it. I don't "work" on my relationship with my wife and we've been together for 17 years, almost 5 of that being married.

 

[spiderman123]

Your friends are douchebags. Let me guess, they have an orange tan and a v neck shirt?

I have a v neck t shirt .

 

[Pandaman]

your friends are right. somewhat. kinda.

ain't no commitment until commitment. Unless a partner asks you to not sleep around and puts you on the spot right there and then, they haven't earned exclusive romantic access to a person until that person bends his or her knee and asks for their partners hand.

 

[daffy]

I cannot believe people try and justify cheating. And least own up to your foolishness. You have lovers that do their very best to establish trust and passion and you ruin that with your hijinks. It makes me weep for humanity when this is what we offer each other.

all of you guys are so strong in your anti-cheating stances/beliefs. not saying theres anything wrong with that, its just that most people you can never fully trust, and you never know whats gonna happen in life and who the person youre with really is, and if you do ever get cheated on its going to suck so much more for you because of how strong your stance and belief agaisnt it is.

dating is dating, even if youve been together for years, youre still dating, hence the word itself. the option of dating or seeing other people is still there. in the end people are going to do what they want, not abide by your morals and what you believe in.

I don't treat dating like its a wild wild western movie.
Edit:

your friends are right. somewhat. kinda.

ain't no commitment until commitment. Unless a partner asks you to not sleep around and puts you on the spot right there and then, they haven't earned exclusive romantic access to a person until that person bends his or her knee and asks for their partners hand.

come on, panda.

 

[MThanded]

Yeah, pretty much. I love my girlfriend, but no amount of legal documents and/or expensive ceremonies, religious or otherwise, is going to make me love her more. Faithfulness and commitment are perfectly possible outside of marriage.

True story. I have been in a committed relationship for 7 years.

 

[Cereal KiIIer]

I have a v neck t shirt .

If you're not orange it's fine

 

[DominoKid]

your friends are right. somewhat. kinda.

ain't no commitment until commitment. Unless a partner asks you to not sleep around and puts you on the spot right there and then, they haven't earned exclusive romantic access to a person until that person bends his or her knee and asks for their partners hand.

basically.

 

[Affeinvasion]

There was another thread about this topic, but that's crap I say. If you're in a good relationship, there's no working on it. I don't "work" on my relationship with my wife and we've been together for 17 years, almost 5 of that being married.

Work is perhaps the wrong word...but if you've been together that long you have already made taking each other's needs and wants into account part of your daily habit base.