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What's up with all the FFXV hate?

A part of me really wants the game to do well just so that all the haters can eat crow haha. That said it's just as likely to go the other way (hope not!).

Regardless I'm hyped for the game and can't wait for it to come out in September.
 
YankeeDonB said:
Represent.

There are lots of factors possibly contributing OP.

Poor choices related to the demos
Incredibly long development period wears on people
FF XIII soured lots of folks on the series
Muddled promotional messaging
People who don't like the character aesthetic
People who liked the Versus tid bits and see XV as a departure
People who love Nomura and feel he was thrown over
People who grew up with the series and now consider themselves too mature
Traditional turn based fans who feel betrayed by full action
Character action fans who feel the game isn't tight enough
People who don't like open world design
People who like to bandwagon easy targets

When the game is shown off to good effect (e.g., E3 2013 trailer, TGS 2014 trailer, Uncovered, the flying and Altissia videos from this E3), many people respond well.

They've just shown it way too many times over way too long a period, and some of what they've shown has been less impressive. That's led to 75% of the hate I think, directly or indirectly.

As someone who played Duscae 1.0 and 2.0, and spent quite a bit of time with iron giant in platinum, I think the game is built on a deep, strategic, and enjoyable action system. Warping is fantastic when you get the hang of hard and soft lock warps and when to use them. Add in craftable spells, higher magic, party skills, summons, and I think it's going to surprise a lot of folks who spend the time to learn the systems.

I also think from what they showed at Uncovered and since that the world is huge, beautiful, varied, filled with secrets, populated with one of the most impressive and varied bestiaries of any current gen game, and it's going to be a pleasure to traverse by foot, chocobo, car, boat, and airship.

From the two Brotherhood anime episodes so far, I think the characters are going to be fairly well developed, and more likable than a lot of people think just from their looks.

The OST is also hype.

And for many, myself included, a road trip is a fresh and interesting story hook for an RPG.

There are a ton of reasons to be excited about the game, but SE has just worn people out, and provided too much ammunition for drive bys.

None of that is to say any particular person isn't justified in finding what they've shown unappealing. Just to note that there's a lot in this game that could pan out very nicely if it all comes together, but many people (at least around here) aren't currently inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt.
Click to expand...

I agree with these points, and I also agree with most of the positives. After playing Duscae 1.0 & 2.0, Platinum, and watching the new footage, I get the feeling that the battle system is going to have quite a bit of depth and be highly customized. The magic synthesis sounds cool.

It feels like they are giving a lot of options for people to play the game how they want- wait or active, and the combat is somewhat skill based. They are even giving an option to force your characters to not level up if you wish--which means people will be doing low-level runs. This game will be quite replayable, I think. Hopefully there is an interesting new game+ option.
 
I'm still excited for it. After the E3 2016 showing though, I'm considering downgrading my pre-order from the Ultimate Collector's Edition to the Deluxe Edition. I wanted to go all-out for it, but my hype for it dropped a bit and now I'm trying to reason the need for the PlayArts figure, the Special Selection OST (which will probably be a handful of tracks and I'll likely import the full OST anyway) and Brotherhood on Blu-ray. Everything else I get with the Deluxe Edition, and for a good deal less...

But yes, this E3 did the game no favors.
 
Holundrian said:
That pass is earned. Where as for FF that pass was lost. Do I have to explain why?



No my point is this is a fantasy story that I don't even know why people would arrive at that.
The biggest reason why FF doesn't earn benefit of doubt anymore and is under more scrutiny is based on the titles released since the PS3 started.
+ Square doing shit like originally releasing a shitty FF14 and bad mobile games. The name has suffered because of that not because of over saturation of decent titles....
Click to expand...

I can't completely dismiss oversaturation. I just can't. It is a thing that can absolutely happen to any franchise. I also do think that the downward spiral in quality has had an effect today. Both of these things can co-exist here to help kill some hype. The quality of the demo combat has been hotly debated too. It's not any one thing that could kill some hype but I do feel that saturation of the franchise is playing a part.
 
JBwB said:
A part of me really wants the game to do well just so that all the haters can eat crow haha. That said it's just as likely to go the other way (hope not!).

Regardless I'm hyped for the game and can't wait for it to come out in Septemeber.
Click to expand...

I part of me really wants people to gain some sense and logic so that all the reasonable people can have an actual discussion not based on bad hyperbole. That said it's likely that there will always be people that post like that.

Regardless if the game turns out great instead of eating crow I will be playing it and enjoying it, but until then I think giving square 7 years of benefit of the doubt on FF is quite enough.

Cloud7 said:
I can't completely dismiss oversaturation. I just can't. It is a thing that can absolutely happen to any franchise. I also do think that the downward spiral in quality has had an effect today. Both of these things can co-exist here to help kill some hype. The quality of the demo combat has been hotly debated too. It's not any one thing that could kill some hype but I do feel that saturation of the franchise is playing a part.
Click to expand...

I mean if that is what you choose to believe nothing I or anyone else say will change that I guess.
But I'm certainly not hanging out in FF15 topics because I got oversaturated on decent FF titles. I'm soooooooooo goddamn hungry for another outstanding title.
I want them to prove my worries and doubts wrong, that doesn't mean I'll blindly buy it. I'll wait until reviews + reactions have amassed before buying it and fortunately I have P5 in that time to keep me busy(yes I can read JP).
 
I think a PC release date or something might generate back some lost hype.

Also just realizing we didn't see anything about FF7HD at E3
 
I have to admit I'm not delighted with combat and the cast (and the combat + narmy dialogue from E3 demo didn't help my reservations ), but I really want it to be a good game, and for it to do well.
 
YankeeDonB said:
Represent.

There are lots of factors possibly contributing OP.

Poor choices related to the demos
Incredibly long development period wears on people
FF XIII soured lots of folks on the series
Muddled promotional messaging
People who don't like the character aesthetic
People who liked the Versus tid bits and see XV as a departure
People who love Nomura and feel he was thrown over
People who grew up with the series and now consider themselves too mature
Traditional turn based fans who feel betrayed by full action
Character action fans who feel the game isn't tight enough
People who don't like open world design
People who like to bandwagon easy targets

When the game is shown off to good effect (e.g., E3 2013 trailer, TGS 2014 trailer, Uncovered, the flying and Altissia videos from this E3), many people respond well.

They've just shown it way too many times over way too long a period, and some of what they've shown has been less impressive. That's led to 75% of the hate I think, directly or indirectly.

As someone who played Duscae 1.0 and 2.0, and spent quite a bit of time with iron giant in platinum, I think the game is built on a deep, strategic, and enjoyable action system. Warping is fantastic when you get the hang of hard and soft lock warps and when to use them. Add in craftable spells, higher magic, party skills, summons, and I think it's going to surprise a lot of folks who spend the time to learn the systems.

I also think from what they showed at Uncovered and since that the world is huge, beautiful, varied, filled with secrets, populated with one of the most impressive and varied bestiaries of any current gen game, and it's going to be a pleasure to traverse by foot, chocobo, car, boat, and airship.

From the two Brotherhood anime episodes so far, I think the characters are going to be fairly well developed, and more likable than a lot of people think just from their looks.

The OST is also hype.

And for many, myself included, a road trip is a fresh and interesting story hook for an RPG.

There are a ton of reasons to be excited about the game, but SE has just worn people out, and provided too much ammunition for drive bys.

None of that is to say any particular person isn't justified in finding what they've shown unappealing. Just to note that there's a lot in this game that could pan out very nicely if it all comes together, but many people (at least around here) aren't currently inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt.
Click to expand...

I think this puts it into words better than I ever could.

There are plenty reasons to like the game, but there are so many things going for it which ultimately make this very enjoyable and unique from every other game out there. There are a lot of things going for it, and it doesn't make sense to dismiss them.
 
I don't think it looks good, not that it'll be bad. I was always excited for some Kingdom Hearts styled gameplay, which may not be the deepest around, but I think it's better than what I've seen from FFXV so far. I'm also afraid that their idea of open world is just going to be huge ass empty fields as far as the eye can see, and lastly I'm kind of feeling like the story is going to be a bit of a clusterfuck. I might be wrong but that's just how I feel from what I've seen and the little I've played.
 
Is this just a dumping thread now? I'm not sure I understand the OP's intentions here but if you're actually interested in hearing why people may not be as hyped as you are, I'll oblige. And I won't even make any comparisons to other games!

The game feels super insecure about itself, like it's begging for approval. The dev team doesn't appear to be confident in the direction they're taking the game, and it's super off-putting. They keep making promotional content that they appear to think is super sentimental and/or artistic and it just falls dead flat for me (the dad hug trailer, the entire Platinum demo). The combat system wasn't satisfying in either demo and it hasn't looked any more appealing since. They just keep making such odd decisions that continue to reinforce my skepticism and I couldn't be less hyped.

If it makes you feel any better, I still plan on playing through it because it's a Final Fantasy game. I am just preparing myself to be rolling my eyes the entire freakin time. But who knows? Maybe it will click and I will end up enjoying it. Maybe I'll love the cities and the feeling of flying around in the airship and maybe the story will gain traction at some point and I'll get invested. I'm open to it! But I'm just not expecting it
 
kenta said:
Is this just a dumping thread now? I'm not sure I understand the OP's intentions here but if you're actually interested in hearing why people may not be as hyped as you are, I'll oblige. And I won't even make any comparisons to other games!

The game feels super insecure about itself, like it's begging for approval. The dev team doesn't appear to be confident in the direction they're taking the game, and it's super off-putting. They keep making promotional content that they appear to think is super sentimental and/or artistic and it just falls dead flat for me (the dad hug trailer, the entire Platinum demo). The combat system wasn't satisfying in either demo and it hasn't looked any more appealing since. They just keep making such odd decisions that continue to reinforce my skepticism and I couldn't be less hyped.

If it makes you feel any better, I still plan on playing through it because it's a Final Fantasy game. I am just preparing myself to be rolling my eyes the entire freakin time. But who knows? Maybe it will click and I will end up enjoying it. Maybe I'll love the cities and the feeling of flying around in the airship and maybe the story will gain traction at some point and I'll get invested. I'm open to it! But I'm just not expecting it
Click to expand...
What exactly led you to this conclusion
 
Boss battles feel like they're one big QTE. At least by going at the titan demo.

Fighting mooks feels much better than bosses which is weird.
 
Holundrian said:
I part of me really wants people to gain some sense and logic so that all the reasonable people can have an actual discussion not based on bad hyperbole. That said it's likely that there will always be people that post like that.

Regardless if the game turns out great instead of eating crow I will be playing it and enjoying it, but until then I think giving square 7 years of benefit of the doubt on FF is quite enough.



I mean if that is what you choose to believe nothing I or anyone else say will change that I guess.
But I'm certainly not hanging out in FF15 topics because I got oversaturated on decent FF titles. I'm soooooooooo goddamn hungry for another outstanding title.
I want them to prove my worries and doubts wrong, that doesn't mean I'll blindly buy it. I'll wait until reviews + reactions have amassed before buying it and fortunately I have P5 in that time to keep me busy(yes I can read JP).
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you feel persecuted, the majority of people in this thread are understandably skeptical and are giving good reasons why. I mean I guess it's understandable that they wouldn't come to post to this thread, but outside of here there is a lot of straight shit posting happening on the game and I don't blame OP for making the thread.
 
True Fire said:
People love to hate on Final Fantasy. It's been doom and gloom for over a decade now, and it probably won't change. Resident Evil is the same way. As soon as they go back to basics for Final Fantasy, people will change their minds and complain about how they got rid of the open world. Because Final Fantasy can never win.

A lot of people aren't into RPGs either. I imagine a lot of the haters on NeoGAF aren't the type to ever buy a JRPG in the first place. There's also a lot of fans of other JRPG series who want XV to fail to prove how superior their preferred series are, because Final Fantasy is the behemoth of RPGs.
Click to expand...
Yup exactly, it's a small minority of negative people, XV looks great and I am sure will be great. I have no worries about it.

Dangansona said:
I'm not sure why you feel persecuted, the majority of people in this thread are understandably skeptical and are giving good reasons why. I mean I guess it's understandable that they wouldn't come to post to this thread, but outside of here there is a lot of straight shit posting happening on the game and I don't blame OP for making the thread.
Click to expand...
I really haven't seen many good reasons why people are skeptical but it maybe just reasons I don't agree with.
 
kenta said:
Is this just a dumping thread now? I'm not sure I understand the OP's intentions here but if you're actually interested in hearing why people may not be as hyped as you are, I'll oblige. And I won't even make any comparisons to other games!

The game feels super insecure about itself, like it's begging for approval. The dev team doesn't appear to be confident in the direction they're taking the game, and it's super off-putting. They keep making promotional content that they appear to think is super sentimental and/or artistic and it just falls dead flat for me (the dad hug trailer, the entire Platinum demo). The combat system wasn't satisfying in either demo and it hasn't looked any more appealing since. They just keep making such odd decisions that continue to reinforce my skepticism and I couldn't be less hyped.

If it makes you feel any better, I still plan on playing through it because it's a Final Fantasy game. I am just preparing myself to be rolling my eyes the entire freakin time. But who knows? Maybe it will click and I will end up enjoying it. Maybe I'll love the cities and the feeling of flying around in the airship and maybe the story will gain traction at some point and I'll get invested. I'm open to it! But I'm just not expecting it
Click to expand...

While this is a valid viewpoint, I would argue that Tabata seemed pretty confident in the game at E3. It is the marketing team at SE that seems to not know how to show off the game.
 
killatopak said:
Boss battles feel like they're one big QTE. At least by going at the titan demo.

Fighting mooks feels much better than bosses which is weird.
Click to expand...
The Xbox demo made it seem like a giant QTE, but the floor demo really proved that isn't the case. The battle system is intuitive and very unique. I was blown away when I played it.
 
jaxapollo said:
It just seems like after one bad Microsoft demo (which last I checked the X1 runs FFXV at about x360 resolution) .. The game got so much more hate. Like, that demo sucked for sure. Cringe levels of bad. But if an experienced player had the controller I think it would have been really well received. So unfortunate. :(
Click to expand...

Many people have explicitly replied to your thread stating they have played both demos of the game and found it to be bad. People have also talked about seeing the various forms of media around the game and state it looks bad.

Why do you boil it all down to one singular event as being the turning point and not what people have actually told you?

smh
 
Ozium said:
Many people have explicitly replied to your thread stating they have played both demos of the game and found it to be bad. People have also talked about seeing the various forms of media around the game and state it looks bad.

Why do you boil it all down to one singular event as being the turning point and not what people have actually told you?

smh
Click to expand...

Most people I think are talking about Duscae and Platinum, not the E3 show floor demos. At least, that's what I think.

Also, I see nothing in his post worthy of the scorn you are displaying.
 
Mediking said:
Yankee!!! Nice to see ya! You're always dropping wisdom!
Click to expand...

Well, I've been with the series from the very beginning, and with great age comes great wisdom. /s Seriously though, I spend way too much time trying to keyboard psychoanalyze people who don't respond well to media that I respond well to. Always have to remind myself that much of it's just different strokes, etc.

jaxapollo said:
This is a great recap. Much obliged. I literally couldn't figure out the hate. This post puts it in perspective.
Click to expand...

Thanks, it's just one perspective of course. Really do believe the secret is to not show your game too much too early. P5 has been in development forever, but they've released only the smallest trickles of info, so they've been well controlled and haven't exhausted people's project-specific hype quota.

After the reboot, XV became an oversharer, like one of those folks going through a hard time who decide to discuss it in excruciating detail in regular Facebook posts. of course you feel sympathetic, and one tries to remember there's more to them than distressing social media posts, but it's hard not to feel like you're seeing them closer than friendship dares.
 
Final Fantasy cycle is kinda like Sonic cycle.

Also, imagine if FFXV was better than Persona 5. What will happen to these boards? :P
 
benzy said:
The battle system actually looks pretty good and could be tons of fun on smaller enemies.

giphy.gif


Boss battle like Titan being a huge QTE fest with extremely lenient parry timing just looks awful though.
Click to expand...

That gif looks fine. But then why demo this awful clunky looking boss battle?

I also wish there was something resembling a cohesive art style because the design is all over the fucking place.
 
Ozium said:
Many people have explicitly replied to your thread stating they have played both demos of the game and found it to be bad. People have also talked about seeing the various forms of media around the game and state it looks bad.

Why do you boil it all down to one singular event as being the turning point and not what people have actually told you?

smh
Click to expand...
I just think the two released demos don't do the game proper.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KaCmM3KTPjk

This is FFXV. Those rushed demos are really just not good examples of how fun the game is. It also seems that the FFXV hate everywhere was overall much lower before that Xbox demo.
 
Holundrian said:
I part of me really wants people to gain some sense and logic so that all the reasonable people can have an actual discussion not based on bad hyperbole. That said it's likely that there will always be people that post like that.

Regardless if the game turns out great instead of eating crow I will be playing it and enjoying it, but until then I think giving square 7 years of benefit of the doubt on FF is quite enough.



I mean if that is what you choose to believe nothing I or anyone else say will change that I guess.
But I'm certainly not hanging out in FF15 topics because I got oversaturated on decent FF titles. I'm soooooooooo goddamn hungry for another outstanding title.
I want them to prove my worries and doubts wrong, that doesn't mean I'll blindly buy it. I'll wait until reviews + reactions have amassed before buying it and fortunately I have P5 in that time to keep me busy(yes I can read JP).
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm not saying what I'm saying because I'm trying to dismiss what people don't like about FF XV. I completely understand why some people say they aren't as hyped about the game. There are gripes to be had about the combat and not everyone is going to like the all-male cast. I can understand the negatives when people are talking about the game specifically but the other things I mentioned, I feel play a part too. That is all I mean. I need to play Persona...any of them haha.
 
For me, the combat is butt. It's just not fun. I played the demo, and it just felt meh. There wasn't really finesse to it like a normal action game.
 
When the first 2 chapters are described as "lifeless", "empty", and a "slide-show."

I think people have reason to be concerned.
 
Lothars said:
I really haven't seen many good reasons why people are skeptical but it maybe just reasons I don't agree with.
Click to expand...

Yeah I mean I disagree with most of them (UI, performance, and a bad PR rollout being the exception) but I also don't think we could dismiss most of them either.

I really do appreciate the people who came in here and wrote a couple of paragraphs on what concerns them and not "FFXIII was absolute trash lol"
 
I've been optimistic the whole time but im kinda losing it. Especially after I heard the english dub...
And lol @ the E3 demo
I still really want the game to be good and do well
 
The game just does not demo well. Will it be good? Who knows, but the demos deflated any hype I had left after ten years of waiting.
 
FF 4, 6, 7, and X are among my favorite games of all time. I'm skipping this. It looks extremely dull. A bunch of Squall lookalikes on a road trip.

I'd be interested if there was a road trip with a combination resembling something like Jecht, Braska, and Auron. A fun group. But a bland looking Japanese boy band dressed in black? Yeah, I'll definitely pass.

Didn't even check out the demo that turned everyone off of it.
 
wmlk said:
I think this puts it into words better than I ever could.

There are plenty reasons to like the game, but there are so many things going for it which ultimately make this very enjoyable and unique from every other game out there. There are a lot of things going for it, and it doesn't make sense to dismiss them.
Click to expand...

In a way that could be part of the problem. They're trying to do so much with this one game, in an era when more and more games are restricting and polishing simpler gameplay and exploration loops, that it really opens them to criticism from all sides.

MilkBeard said:
While this is a valid viewpoint, I would argue that Tabata seemed pretty confident in the game at E3. It is the marketing team at SE that seems to not know how to show off the game.
Click to expand...

That's been my impression too - Tabata seems rock steady, but at least the NA marketing team is all over the place. Wonder how much of a sense he has of how things shown go over in the West.
 
I believe all the hate is coming down to people just wanting to play this game and getting it over with. You can also blame Nier and how amazing it looks.
 
Kas said:
For me, the combat is butt. It's just not fun. I played the demo, and it just felt meh. There wasn't really finesse to it like a normal action game.
Click to expand...
That's the weirdest thing, I had the total opposite feeling fighting Titan, like I was playing the prettiest action game of all time. It just felt so smooth and intuitive. I took a video of myself playing and couldn't even believe how awesome it looked after. I am not sure how that Xbox demo was so poorly played. I was legit worried after seeing the demo "this is gonna be clunky" "this is gonna be shitty" then I played the demo and I was seriously blown away.
 
I hope it's a good game because I want to be able to play a good game, a good final fantasy game.
 
I think you're seeing what you want to see. Also people being critical is warranted, they haven't exactly delivered recently.
 
Changing UI isn't a big deal. I've tested major games that have gone through half a dozen UI redesigns before launch over the course of a year.
 
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