Cindi Mayweather
Member
I was poking fun at you, Noct. You know that. lol
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What's up with all the FFXV hate?
- Thread starter Owari
- Start date
I was poking fun at you, Noct. You know that. lol
Mediking
Member
Duscae was so much fun....
I got so hype when I was doing the aerial combat in Platinum Demo!!!
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Calming down? This isn't that serious. I just think it's hilarious.
I do want to play it I just have one worry... Framerate. I played the demo on PS4 and the framerate fucking sucked. Completely unacceptable. I'm not even a guy who needs a game to be 60, I usually don't care if it's 30 or even a bit less but XV routinely dropped into the teens it seemed, it was TERRIBLE. I know they said they've been working on that but man. At LEAST hit 30 in your games, people. I don't care what flashiness you need to leave out, hit fucking 30 frames per second.
YankeeDonB
Member
Ha ha, agreed. I'm actually getting nostalgic about playing Duscae now, which is frankly absurd given that it's a demo for a game that isn't even out yet. None-the-less, I'm thinking of booting it up again tonight and messing around.
As I recall from the analyses, the framerate in Platinum isn't actually that bad in terms of absolute numbers -- it's bad frame pacing that makes it feel stuttery.
Supposedly the frame rate in the Titan demo at E3 was noticeably better, so they seem to be heading in the right direction....
ãInaba Residentã
Banned
The platinum demo was put together by 3 people (iirc) in a few months. Its an old build that isn't optimized at all but yeah. The framerate is something that I've been worried about for a while now. They managed to get the Titan fight at a mostly consistent 30 and Tabata's comments make it sound like they're pretty confident about the rest of the game. I'm really hoping the game turns out good in that regard
I'm curious to know why you consider XV's combat too easy and then proceed to hold up Ninja Gaiden 2, of which the attacks aren't any more difficult to execute and is an entirely different genre, at that. If you mean encounter design, IG doesn't take an extraordinary amount of skill to beat without getting hit, no.
Sure you do lol
jimmypython
Member
The same person making the Versus teaser is behind the FF7remake. XV is handled by another entirely different team.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
It takes as much skill to beat enemies in NG2 without getting hit? You mean the game where you have to fight 9 enemies at once? In FFXV, your main go to is offense. In NG, your main go to is defense. In NG, you have to block, a lot. There is no such thing in XV. There's evasion, but the moves are so overly choreographed that it's hard to not get hit by most attacks and the enemy AI isn't aggressive. Action game depth isn't mere execution. In fact, execution is probably one of the least impressive things about action games. A great action game is one where you cannot simply get by hitting the enemy as if it's no problem. If you did that same thing Chozen did in NG, he'd be dead, because the enemies in those games are threatening and highly aggressive. What's aggressive about the Iron Giant exactly? You can warp to another section of the map if you want. When you've done enough damage to him he just keels over.
What I love about good action games like NG is the encounter and enemy AI as much as everything else. You separate encounter design as if it's a separate entity when in action games encounter design is the entire game.
So when I see people say git gud, and all they're doing are combos. I can't help but lose my shit in laughter because combos are fucking boring compared to a well made fight.
I mean, compare that Iron Giant fight to Alma. For me it's night and day. And I'm supposed to be impressed because some dude is floating in the air for ten seconds while the enemy does only two swings?
Compare:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_KGGX3F7wk
How many attacks does Alma get in within ten seconds. An unrelenting force of mayhem that you constantly have to evade. Iron Giant swings his sword twice in a ten second gif.
But we need to git gud because the game controls poorly, the encounter is poorly made, and the feel of the action is off?
The Iron Giant fight would be much better with minions. Shocked there weren't any.
It's pretty obvious from my reaction that I find this entire git gud thing to be hilarious. How many Ray Liotta laughing gifs do I have to post?!
The problem I have with this is that it's just that, a demo, a cut out polished part of the game you bring to a conference. Now I'm not saying they won't be able to launch a good product devoid of fps issues(I do doubt it though) but I don't think that demo is any indication on how well the full game will perform.
I'm gonna say it again.
This is the best thing in gaming!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdjdWYfdwUM
What I find a bit strange is that at the uncovered event titan was different. Maybe summons get more moves in this game.
Can't wait to see the other ones.
This is the best thing in gaming!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdjdWYfdwUM
What I find a bit strange is that at the uncovered event titan was different. Maybe summons get more moves in this game.
Can't wait to see the other ones.
YankeeDonB
Member
That is a concern, true -- there's an awful lot going on in that titan demo though, so to hold steady during it is something.
Also, Duscae was a big chunk of open space w/ tons of monsters and 2.0 ran pretty smoothly.
Together I think the signs are hopeful, but still plenty of room for skepticism, particularly given that it seems they're really crunching to get everything finished.
NoctisVsStar
Member
My honest hot take is that in order for the combat to thrive the enemies/bosses must be up to par.
I beat Dragon's Dogma, DMC3/4, Ninja Gaiden 1/2, Bayonetta 1/2, Metal Gear Rising, Kingdom Hearts games etc and I lovethe combat in all of them
I thought combat in duscae and platinum is mediocre at best and controls even inferior to the one in Witcher 3.......
I think what's extremely obvious in this thread is that people are justifiably saying that Platinum Demo wasn't very good, and then someone shares their story and talks about the nuances in combat against the Iron Giant, and then all of a sudden it's assumed that the Iron Giant is the combat showcase for the game when in all honestly it will likely just be a common late-game enemy.
The Iron Giant doesn't allow for impressive actions to be done in combat, simply because the thing is huge and doesn't stagger to allow you to stack combos. I can show you videos of Magitek Troops from Duscae that are less "janky", "unresponsive", "unsatisfying", etc. And while all of their complaints could very well hold true for some people, you're not going to get anywhere near the hyperbole in this thread. No one complained this bad after Duscae.
Until you get actual encounters with enemies that allow you to showcase solo combat, like the different Magitek soldiers, and seemingly other human-sized enemies like the Numb Blade, you're not going to get a good assessment on the combat. The Iron Giant isn't that kind of an encounter.
The Iron Giant doesn't allow for impressive actions to be done in combat, simply because the thing is huge and doesn't stagger to allow you to stack combos. I can show you videos of Magitek Troops from Duscae that are less "janky", "unresponsive", "unsatisfying", etc. And while all of their complaints could very well hold true for some people, you're not going to get anywhere near the hyperbole in this thread. No one complained this bad after Duscae.
Until you get actual encounters with enemies that allow you to showcase solo combat, like the different Magitek soldiers, and seemingly other human-sized enemies like the Numb Blade, you're not going to get a good assessment on the combat. The Iron Giant isn't that kind of an encounter.
If you reread my post I agree that IG isn't difficult. It serves its purpose as a training dummy to experiment on. I don't believe XV will have encounters nearing the difficulty of a NG game (btw, 2 is shit and NG Sigma remains the best modern NG title), but I suppose we'll see what it's like come September.
Consider that encounter design in FF has historically taken a backseat to plot and theatrics. Then consider it's first an RPG and not a pure action game. Then further consider that SE probably needs to make it at least somewhat accessible to players not used to action combat, unlike NG which gives no fucks about punishing bad play. I don't dog anyone for not liking it, however. Also you may want to argue with Balls on that git gud smack talk. It seems premature to me to be having this argument definitively based off a demo made by 3 people, but impressions are valid I suppose.
Lol come on. You're not fooling anyone.Cindi Mayweather said:
YankeeDonB
Member
Good point -- in some ways, the Iron Giant is a handy training dummy. Good for showing mobility and range of abilities, but maybe not optimal for combo gameplay.
It's worth noting though that in the most commonly shared Iron Giant video, he looks more like a training dummy than most people would find him in first encounter, as the player uses a lot of well timed staggers and counters and the like to totally negate the Giant's offence.
If you play less well, he's still slow, but you will definitely get smashed around.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
On the opposite end, people are saying they don't like it and share their reasons why. Which are actually fairly reasonable.
And then people who do like it, dismiss it and tell us to git gud. That's why I'm reacting like this. Because it's absolutely infuriating and hilarious in its desperation to sell this game.
Dark Castle gave a great reply about why they don't like it. It's been mostly ignored by the pro-XV people. When someone said they think the game feels unresponsive, Balls and Chozen;et al surmised that the main reason people aren't enjoying it is because they either aren't good enough to hang, or just plain suck. Chozen literally said "someone didn't even know you could change attacks by putting the stick in different directions!" And it's the fact that the Iron Giant isn't even a good showcase of talent or encounter design that makes the defenses for the battle system to be tone deaf.
Nobody in this thread wants to have a discussion. When people bring up valid points on why they're not interested in this game, the XV defense force swoops in and sweeps it under the rug. That doesn't count, you clearly haven't played the demo enough times or in MogCakes' case, I clearly am not open to the technical side of the combat (snicker).
We get that the combat has more to offer than what's told in the demo. The problem is that XV defense force routinely head butts against any hint of criticism.
It's almost like XV is their religion.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
If the IG serves as a mere training dummy to experiment on then why are so many pro-XV people, including you, saying it's a great example of XV's technical combat? XV won't have the encounters of a NG game, but when I play an action game I'm going to start comparing it to the Holy Grail almost on reflex.
As for NG Sigma being the best in the series and NG2 sucking, I have done many Hail Mary's for you. You need prayer.
I can handle the "it's an action rpg not an action game" thing, but it gets harder to because of how they're selling it. FF has been about theatrics, but action games are about more than theatrics. There have also been many action rpgs that can pull off great combat without much in the way of theatrics. It's just hard for me to take the action rpg excuse for the bad controls. Lots of action rpgs don't control that way. It may be a demo 3 people worked on but they should have thought of that when they decided to release it for the general public. This has been the only actual chance a lot of people even had to play the game. I think any complaint that it plays poorly is valid, especially in light of the Titan E3 demo.
Did you want pats on the back? The whole reason this thread exists is for argument. I thought it was clear I wasn't still pinning you to my initial impressions, but apparently not. You remain as petty as ever.
Edit: as per your above reply: it takes some skill to execute moves the way that player does in the IG video, not that the fight itself is some paragon of boss design. I don't contest the rest of your impressions, they're as valid as mine.
Agree to disagree on NG 2.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I don't want any pats on the back. For someone saying I'm being petty you sure are constantly being overly defensive. You seem mad, MogCakes.
The whole reason the thread exists is argument, but let's be honest, besides Yankee I don't think the XV side have done the best job defending their positions. Any time combat rears its head, it's almost always some horrible attempt, posturing, and saying people just aren't good enough to tangle rather than supplying information on getting better. When I made the Fighting Game Noob thread, we helped each other get better via friendly criticism and tips. Most of the people defending XV act like you're insane if you don't like the combat. It's crazy to me.
Petty? How?
Jesus, calm down. Turn that frown upside down, Moggy.
I don't try act above it all while in the trenches of videogame debate, for one. You appear to have trouble differentiating fighting and action games from RPGs. I haven't seen anyone ask for tips on the combat here, have you? Did you honestly think there wouldn't be mass argument between people in a thread like this? Does it infuriate you that there are posters who will defend what they liked about the demos?
The Last One
Member
The trailer for the SIGGRAPH 2016 has a few seconds of new real time footage:
https://youtu.be/Uz6dh6Ky8p8?t=52s
https://youtu.be/Uz6dh6Ky8p8?t=52s
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I haven't compared fighting games to an action rpg. It was an example about engaging with other people, not actual fighting game mechanics. Are you actually reading what I'm saying? As for comparing an action game to an action rpg. I mean, it's going to happen, you realize? It's an inevitability.
People have not asked for tips, but people have expressed confusion regarding how the battle system plays and operates. They don't like how it controls, they don't like how it feels. Rather than debate that claim, many are using it as a chance to attack their skill level rather than inform.
The pro XV crowd have done an awful job defending their game. I expected a mess, but I also expected more than fans defending their game by saying people need to git gud when defending a demo that has a boss act as an over glorified training dummy.
The trailer for the SIGGRAPH 2016 has a few seconds of new real time footage:
https://youtu.be/Uz6dh6Ky8p8?t=52s
I thought that clip of Noctis was CGI at first, that was until I saw the aliasing on his hair lol.
OmegaDL50
Member
You are arguing with the same person who put words into my mouth with implication I was the purest FF fan on the block and was self serving and couldn't separate audience for each respective game from the entire fan base.
Your wasting your words MogCakes, it's not even worth it.
Your wasting your words MogCakes, it's not even worth it.
Yup, this shit right here is what I've been missing in gaming. Reminds me of how I felt when I saw Weapon for the first time back in the day.
'Their' game? You've really ingrained that us vs them mentality. There's some false equivalence at play in trying to conflate a community thread with this thread too, whose entire purpose is to incite argument. Lastly, you continue to lump people together and generalize, shouting into the air instead of calling out the specific people who are saying the git gud rhetoric, whom number far fewer than you imply.
OmegaDL50
Member
It doesn't make much point to argue anyways.
Games not even released yet. All we have to go on is a small series of trailers with repeated footage and info, two demos, one of them based on chapter 1 that will be in the final game (Duscae), and the Platinum Demo which seems to exist to show off stuff like the day / night cycles and weather stuff.
Sure information is there and enough is available to form an early opinion and idea on what to expect, but the key word is exactly that "early". In any case when has any demo ever been representative of everything available in a full game.
People are on both sides of the fence in terms of apprehension and hype. Best to just wait until September 30th, because this thread is just going in circles.
Games not even released yet. All we have to go on is a small series of trailers with repeated footage and info, two demos, one of them based on chapter 1 that will be in the final game (Duscae), and the Platinum Demo which seems to exist to show off stuff like the day / night cycles and weather stuff.
Sure information is there and enough is available to form an early opinion and idea on what to expect, but the key word is exactly that "early". In any case when has any demo ever been representative of everything available in a full game.
People are on both sides of the fence in terms of apprehension and hype. Best to just wait until September 30th, because this thread is just going in circles.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
In my experience, it definitely is an us vs them thing. It's not like I want it to be, but it just seems to be to me. Look at the thread yourself. It's definitely us vs them. Don't you dare try to single me out.
I'm not conflating a community thread at all. My thread isn't a community thread. What I'm saying is that, if you truly believed in the game, you would try to help people understand and try to get better. I know for a fact that if *I* liked XV's combat, and found it fun to play, and a lot of people couldn't get into it, I would make an entire guide to help players make the most of out of the games systems and combat. Instead, you get a lot of people being defensive, and telling others to git gud or saying it's incomplete and it's just a demo. When the final game drops and this is the behavior that the people that support this game enact, then it's just not a good look. My favorite games tend to have jank in them, and when I see people having trouble, I'm always willing to help them get better. So the attitude that a lot of people in this thread and the Platinum Demo thread have taken up just makes them feel like really poor ambassadors.
Shouting into the air? There are a lot of people to name. Am I supposed to call them out by name every time? Maybe they do number in fewer numbers than I think, but IMO you should watch from the side lines and how the rhetoric occurs with this game. When the Titan demo was shown at E3, the XV defense force (yes, I'm calling them that because it was the entire group as mass) blamed the entire demo flunking on the player. For them, it's always the player, and it's never the game. Because the game couldn't possibly not live up to expectations, right? Watch from the sidelines. Note who is who. You'll start to notice the same pro-XV people in every XV thread, who are always willing to blame individual players and cannot in any manner, admit that maybe the games combat just won't be up to snuff and that it's an actual legitimate grievance for people.
That's what I'm talking about.
Re-read this thread. I'm sure you'll see it often. The same 10-12 or so people.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=196558412&postcount=2966
This is what you should be doing if you want to help people try to get the most out of the game you like.
Not shitting on them and telling to git gud.
Something to keep in mind as you defend XV's combat and the Platinum Demo IG encounter.
I think that's all I have to say. This thread is very circular. If you actually believe in your game, try to share your love for it and why you love it rather than attacking others for their legitimate reasons for disliking it.
That's all I had to say and this is my last post on anything XV related until this game comes out.
Cindi out.
This is what you should be doing if you want to help people try to get the most out of the game you like.
Not shitting on them and telling to git gud.
Something to keep in mind as you defend XV's combat and the Platinum Demo IG encounter.
I think that's all I have to say. This thread is very circular. If you actually believe in your game, try to share your love for it and why you love it rather than attacking others for their legitimate reasons for disliking it.
That's all I had to say and this is my last post on anything XV related until this game comes out.
Cindi out.
CrimsonSquall
Member
Holy shit this Cindi person needs to take a seat. One person says git gud, then all of a sudden everyone in the entire thread defending XV is saying the same thing somehow. It's not true and you're over generalizinf everything. Also, what kind of a dumbass argument is comparing Ninja Gaiden, a game that is literally just an action game that lasts maybe 20hrs max versus an open world action rpg thats supposed to be 200hrs?
The full gameplay system is something we have not seen yet. This needs to be understood. There is a ton of complexity to be had. You crying over a demo and comparing it to the full experience even after it's been discussed it wont play look or feel the same as the whole game is ignorance at its finest
The full gameplay system is something we have not seen yet. This needs to be understood. There is a ton of complexity to be had. You crying over a demo and comparing it to the full experience even after it's been discussed it wont play look or feel the same as the whole game is ignorance at its finest
You've gone far off the rails from your initial post. You're continuing to lump people together and the most hilarious part is you're ignoring those who actually are just trying to clear up misconceptions. At this point I can only assume you deluded yourself into some moral crusade against the evil pro-ffxv 'mob'. You came in shit talking, then try and justify it with some baseless comparisons, then when that failed, try to take the high road out? You aren't fooling anyone.
we should probably get back to deconstructing the dislike and hate surrounding FF15, since we've kind of stopped doing that and started comparing it to combo intensive games and how we should help people learn an unfinished game from an unfinished demo of an unfinished battle system.
many people, when duscae came out, have helped others find more enjoyment out of the fighting, but that's explicitly NOT what this thread is about. This is about deconstructing the games mechanics that we have seen and the marketing that we have been shown. Many of us have been doing just that. Very few posts here are of a git gud nature, but rather of an argumentative nature dealing with the functional differences between character-action and arpgs; as well as combo centric versus non-combo centric arpgs.
So i want to do a little digging. can someone figure out when the ass-looking screenshots started, and more importantly, at what point after uncovered did things feel a bit "rye"
many people, when duscae came out, have helped others find more enjoyment out of the fighting, but that's explicitly NOT what this thread is about. This is about deconstructing the games mechanics that we have seen and the marketing that we have been shown. Many of us have been doing just that. Very few posts here are of a git gud nature, but rather of an argumentative nature dealing with the functional differences between character-action and arpgs; as well as combo centric versus non-combo centric arpgs.
So i want to do a little digging. can someone figure out when the ass-looking screenshots started, and more importantly, at what point after uncovered did things feel a bit "rye"
FFXV's IQ dipped quite a bit when they implemented whatever AA solution they're using at the moment. The sharpening filter they're using for the game isn't the best either.
I hope these things will be fixed whilst they keep on optimizing the game for release.
The trailer for the SIGGRAPH 2016 has a few seconds of new real time footage:
https://youtu.be/Uz6dh6Ky8p8?t=52s
Siggraph footage is most likely from their development/PC builds, so it doesn't represent how PS4/XB1 will look.
This is also a pretty big annoyance that could bite them in the ass, they are so proud of what they've done that they're showing off how they would like the game to look rather than what people are going to get in September.
The Last One
Member
They also showed footage of the Episode Duscae in other video so I'm no really sure it this is a rule.
DarkLordMalik
Member
They have shown Ardyn close to the throne of Insomnia so much that I am sure it is just a red herring. There is no way he can be the final villain because there are still a lot of mystery characters that haven't been introduced yet.
Who is even the mysterious guy who is torturing Luna 15 years ago?
Who is even the mysterious guy who is torturing Luna 15 years ago?
The Last One
Member
In the newest Famitsu scans there's a picture of a side quest. It's Noctis's gang helping a man with a broken car it seens.
I think that man torturing her is her father.
I think that man torturing her is her father.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Yea remember in uncovered colin was like we could pull over and help these guys if we wanted
DarkLordMalik
Member
So maybe with the Dawn 2.0 trailer (I actually like it very much), they wanted to showed Noctis having a loving father and Luna having the exact opposite of it. Makes sense.
YankeeDonB
Member
Damn, I'd always assumed that was just some random imperial official when Tenebrae was originally occupied.
Link?
I don't think we're allowed to post scans and the site is banned but check out dualshockers.
I personally think that Ardyn is just a troublemaker/wildcard character, and not the final villain.
OmegaDL50
Member
So basically the Seifer of FFXV. I could see Ardyn as the annoying recurring non-quite-the-villain type of character that just shows up whenever and makes vague and confusing statements and before the Noctis and crew ask what is he talking about.and he just up and vanishes. leaving them bewildered.
Just to comment, Duscae 2.0 looks really, really close to this, and if the main game looks at the same fidelity (with some more polish) and a solid framerate, I think I will be very happy. I forgot how detailed and how great the lighting system is in this demo.
EDIT: Also, with the way the AA works in the game, it's also easy to make really smooth screenshots, because once the game sits, it applies a higher level of AA. You can see this by simply pausing the screen in either of the demos. This is kind of hilarious, because all of the screenshots released lately from SE look curiously bad. I hope that SE goes for the image quality of Duscae instead of Platinum Demo for the final game. Maybe it's too taxing, though?
Shadowheart
Member
What engine are they using for FF15? UE4?