Do you think it's possible that the game would look just as worrisome or unappealing without the Final Fantasy brand?
Indeed, what makes Final Fantasy what it is? Is it a collection of recognizable words and monster designs?
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What's up with all the FFXV hate?
- Thread starter Owari
- Start date
Do you think it's possible that the game would look just as worrisome or unappealing without the Final Fantasy brand?
Indeed, what makes Final Fantasy what it is? Is it a collection of recognizable words and monster designs?
DangerMouse
Member
This.
I think it's pretty much opinion whether each of us prefer the scifi, scifi/fantasy, or straight fantasy in each FF. This game was originally introduced as a "modern" FF with stuff like near-future cities and cars and highways and things with just a touch of scifi/fantasy (like 8 but less advanced), so them looking modern wearing leather and stuff fits perfectly, the "boy band" as a complaint thing is such a "haters" thing. Hell, in the original Nomura version it was supposed to be even cooler and even more modern than it is now, with plenty of characters not even going to regularly wear armor (outside of some), they were going to be more often than not in suits and stuff, though I'm sure some still will be.
The teleporting stuff was one of the coolest things when it was revealed as well.
Gotta agree with this.
It feels like SE are working on everything except the actual game. There's playable demos. Trailers. Q&A sessions. An anime. There's even a CGI feature film for god's sake.
I mean look at this (copied from Wikipedia):
All of this and the game isn't even out yet. It's ludicrous and undeserved.
Meanwhile, the actual game of the damn thing looks awful whenever it's demoed, it's janky as hell with framerate and performance issues, and no one knows what to do with the combat.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Funny thing is I realized I only like FF6,7 and 8 due to the setting which is why I'm drawn to XV. The only medieval FF that I like is 12 and tactics.
eXistor
Member
I feel like they're always showing the wrong things for large audiences. That Titan fight just looked chaotic and didnlt give you a good feeling for the combat. That Tech demo everyone could play is nothing like the main game, with its shallow combat and limited environments.
It's the first FF I've been excited for since XII and it looks like a fine return to form, but I feel like the public showing could have been more thought out. I have no doubt in the final game though.
It's the first FF I've been excited for since XII and it looks like a fine return to form, but I feel like the public showing could have been more thought out. I have no doubt in the final game though.
Aeriscloud
Banned
All of my thoughts and feelings aside though.
Please, PLEASE be good.
Please, PLEASE be good.
OmegaDL50
Member
If recognizable words and monster designs is what defines what makes an FF an FF, then I don't see why FFXV doesn't adequately fufill this.
We've seen FF stables like Titan, Ramuh, Leviathan, Chocobos, and even monsters from past games like Behemoth, Marlboro, Adamantoise, Marilith, Galuda, and even the Iron Giant. Hell even Cid makes an appearance as a mechanic instead of an airship engineer, but considering the main form of transport in FFXV is a Car, being a auto mechanic par for the course of what some of the previous Cid did in terms of role of being the vehicle maintainance guy.
Each game has a varying different setting and cast of characters. Outside of a few notable staples that are carried over, what else is one to identify with the FF series beyond the consistencies that remaining in recognizable words and monster designs?
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Good points. Disagree about Brotherhood though. I think Prompto's character came out the better because of it.
There was unquestionable hype after the event on March 31st but here we are 2.5 months later and every thing they showed at E3 that people probably saw was ... not so good.
At MS presser they showed an awful AWFUL looking demo where someone just pressed the dodge button for 60 seconds and then triggered a quicktime event that may as well have been the win button. First official showing on the xbox one as well... and it wasn't good.
Then later that same day we get a video at sony's presser about an FFXV Prompto VR demo that had unanimously awful impressions from anyone who dared to try it.
Follow that up with a trailer featuring not the amazing stand by me remix but instead... some downright awful techno music that tries to blend some final fantasy tunes together but fails...
Here's the thing though, a day after all this trash was left out in the sun Tabata also took to a stage to showcase a number of features in FFXV and used video of the production build (running on a PC). What was shown here actually still looked pretty good , tons of options for playing the combat how you want - stylish, strategic or even a combination of both .... basically there is potential still there for this to be a fantastic game.
The only reason I'm personally still worried though ? All the possible leaks/rumors about the games development. That , despite it's upcoming release date , it's only mostly complete on PC right now with the PS4 version struggling and the XB1 version struggling even more. They have a whole game there but it's still gotta be duct taped togethor and spit shined and they're quickly running out of time to do that AND make sure it runs well on consoles.
Basically, despite the colossal wait for this game, if we made it to August 30th and a delay to say December 15th was announced ? I would actually be happy because I honestly feel like it's coming out 6 months ahead of when it's truly ready to go. I'm happy to be proven wrong but ... I want this game to be good.
At MS presser they showed an awful AWFUL looking demo where someone just pressed the dodge button for 60 seconds and then triggered a quicktime event that may as well have been the win button. First official showing on the xbox one as well... and it wasn't good.
Then later that same day we get a video at sony's presser about an FFXV Prompto VR demo that had unanimously awful impressions from anyone who dared to try it.
Follow that up with a trailer featuring not the amazing stand by me remix but instead... some downright awful techno music that tries to blend some final fantasy tunes together but fails...
Here's the thing though, a day after all this trash was left out in the sun Tabata also took to a stage to showcase a number of features in FFXV and used video of the production build (running on a PC). What was shown here actually still looked pretty good , tons of options for playing the combat how you want - stylish, strategic or even a combination of both .... basically there is potential still there for this to be a fantastic game.
The only reason I'm personally still worried though ? All the possible leaks/rumors about the games development. That , despite it's upcoming release date , it's only mostly complete on PC right now with the PS4 version struggling and the XB1 version struggling even more. They have a whole game there but it's still gotta be duct taped togethor and spit shined and they're quickly running out of time to do that AND make sure it runs well on consoles.
Basically, despite the colossal wait for this game, if we made it to August 30th and a delay to say December 15th was announced ? I would actually be happy because I honestly feel like it's coming out 6 months ahead of when it's truly ready to go. I'm happy to be proven wrong but ... I want this game to be good.
I'm in it the purely for Yoko Shimomura, about the only thing that has been consistently good. The game itself has been one inconsistent thrill ride. The fact that it's basically been all hands on deck over at SE (notice us!) for a while now in regards with this game isn't electing much confidence.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
If your defense for this game is "people love to hate Final Fantasy" you seriously need to step back and reevaluate your argument. No one is buying that shit in the year of our lord, 2016, about a series who lost prominence almost ten years ago (FF13 came out in December 2009).
OmegaDL50
Member
Polishing is usually one of the last things usually done for a game in development. The on floor E3 playable built had consistently more better performance then even the Platinum demo.
Digital Foundry member dark10x even had positive impressions in terms of the games performance and even said he was feeling confident the performance would be taken care of by launch.
You can even see that post here - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=207138488#post207138488
Always-honest
Banned
it just seems like the game needs another gen.
I still can't get used to most of their hairstyle, it may look good in anime form but going more realistic looking, those hairstyle just looks off (worst offender is noctis).
And I'm not really a fan of their dressing style either. Black suits on all of them would have been fine like one of the guys. But that buff guy being all tattooed up and with his chest hanging out, yuck.
Looking at this:
I'd rather have this:
Edit: I'm still getting the game but these are just stuff I'm not liking, but it's not like I can't just soldier through them
Wannabe Sasuke
And I'm not really a fan of their dressing style either. Black suits on all of them would have been fine like one of the guys. But that buff guy being all tattooed up and with his chest hanging out, yuck.
Looking at this:
I'd rather have this:
Edit: I'm still getting the game but these are just stuff I'm not liking, but it's not like I can't just soldier through them
SimpleCRIPPLE
Member
The boss battle demo'd this E3 looked terrible. Graphically it was nice, but from a gameplay perspective it looked completely uninteresting at best, and frustrating at worst.
MindGamingMantis
Banned
Every time they show it off, it looks shitty and/or not fun to play.
All that development time and what we get is clunky combat and shit camera angles.
All that development time and what we get is clunky combat and shit camera angles.
Devilgunman
Member
I'm not hating on the game and still going to keep my pre-order but goddamn every demo they put out for this game look terrible. I didn't play Duscae so I can't comment on that but the Platinum demo was possibly one of the worst demo I've ever play. Just absolutely fucking boring. I couldn't even force myself past the toy car driving shit section due to boredom. What the hell were they thinking? And then we have the E3 demo. It looked bad on the stage and also didn't look any better on the show floor. Just a bunch of QTE bullshit and janks. I can totally understand why some might lost interest on the game but I still want to play the final product.
I still can't get used to their hairstyle, it may look good in anime form but going more realistic looking, those hairstyle just looks off (worst offender is noctis).Wannabe Sasuke
And I'm not really a fan of their dressing style either. Black suits on all of them would have been fine like one of the guys. And that buff guy being all tattooed up and with his chest hanging out, yuck.
Looking at this:
I'd rather have this:
I'd honestly expect dlc to include vsxiii outfits. It's expected of square to do this really. Because dlc.
I'm pointing out that the inability to define what constitutes FF in a meaningful way is the reason why the franchise is so directionless, divisive and unwieldy.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
It's not that weird. Devil May Cry has the same problem. There's nothing worse than fighting a big ass boss in games with decent one on one fighting. One on One is always better. DMC4 is a perfect example.
Going even further I've yet to play a single game where a giant boss was more fun to fight than a human-sized one. Sure, it's a spectacle and QTE/cutscenes are great, but in terms of the actual fighting...not a single one.
Unless you've played at least 50% of the final game, I don't see how you could call it "incredible" or "amazing".
There are so many things about what we've seen of this game that worry me. Roughly listed by importance:
1. The combat doesn't seem fun. It just doesn't seem fluid or coherent or engaging.
2. The main characters seem unlikable and unrelatable, which is a major no-no for a story centered around a bromantic roadtrip. Why do I want to spend 30+ hours with these anime cliches? Why does everyone else in the game world look normal while these dudes look like a J-Pop band?
3. The soundtrack seems to consist of 5 songs repeated over and over again. Previous FFs have had 50+ songs. I'm not saying give away the whole soundtrack before the game comes out, but at least give us some idea of variety.
4. The excess of tie-ins is worrisome to say the least. Why is money going into an anime series and a feature-length CG movie before the game even comes out? It just seems ridiculous and hubristic.
I so want FF to be relevant again. There is absolutely still a place for a grandiose, high-production JRPG. But I can't shake the feeling that FF is basically over. I think the only way FF could be relevant again is to look at arguably the most timeless entry in the series, FFVI, and use that as a basis for the next game. Alternatively, maybe the FFVII remake is so good that it kickstarts the series again.
DangerMouse
Member
I agree, it's probably mostly this. While Tabata's picked some good gameplay for ATRs and there was well-picked content from the game for the FFXV Uncovered event that really brought the hype, he's made some weird choices at times for what to feature at big events like that Titan demo and for his couple of hype trailers. Also, since they already revealed that new version of Stand By Me as the theme song they should have used some Shimomura music for an E3 hype trailer. I think the lack of a big Nomura-style hype trailer like the 2013 trailer is a factor, he's really good at highlighting a game, and while it obviously wouldn't be done by him I'm surprised there was no story hype trailer at Sony's conference at the game's final E3 before launch to give it that extra push.
I'm really looking forward to the game.
While true, none of that staff working on those side things would likely be working on the game anyway, aside from maybe some of Visual Works but they do CG movies and cutscenes for a lot of S-E's games and side projects all at the same time so it's not like they're really restricted just to one game at a time anyway. I also doubt any traditional animators that are working on Brotherhood would have a lot to do with the game.
I'd buy that day one! In fact I'd probably even hold out playing the game and waiting till these dlc outfit comes out. I mean if this is all true that is.
Tabata & Square has definitely done more harm than good.
Tabata is trying to
1) Make a FF mainline game that surpasses FFVII.
2) Carry over the great ideas that Nomura laid out ten years ago.
3) Making it his own style as well.
4) Use an engine that Square took years to make but are now realizing it's shit at making games.
5) Pleasing the Versus fans while attracting new fans as well.
It is worrying. I've been waiting for this game since 2008. I would stay up nights discussing it in the gamefaqs forums thinking of the possibilities. I still remember when I saw leaked scans of the game's clouds and thinking it looked amazing.
The biggest problem is the combat. I enjoyed the Duscae combat but I knew it wasn't something that I can see being fun after ten hours. The platinum demo somehow feels more confusing and janky. Tabata seems more concerned in making it look cool than it is to feel good.
However, I'm still in it for the story, characters, and world. I love exploring Duscae and I really like the idea of a prince and his entourage out on a road trip. I always loved the juxtaposition with the way the character dress and how this Tokyo based characters use swords while the medieval country uses guns.
At this point though there is no way to convince anyone who isn't interested or lost interest to gain it back until it releases and we see the true damage.
Tabata is trying to
1) Make a FF mainline game that surpasses FFVII.
2) Carry over the great ideas that Nomura laid out ten years ago.
3) Making it his own style as well.
4) Use an engine that Square took years to make but are now realizing it's shit at making games.
5) Pleasing the Versus fans while attracting new fans as well.
It is worrying. I've been waiting for this game since 2008. I would stay up nights discussing it in the gamefaqs forums thinking of the possibilities. I still remember when I saw leaked scans of the game's clouds and thinking it looked amazing.
The biggest problem is the combat. I enjoyed the Duscae combat but I knew it wasn't something that I can see being fun after ten hours. The platinum demo somehow feels more confusing and janky. Tabata seems more concerned in making it look cool than it is to feel good.
However, I'm still in it for the story, characters, and world. I love exploring Duscae and I really like the idea of a prince and his entourage out on a road trip. I always loved the juxtaposition with the way the character dress and how this Tokyo based characters use swords while the medieval country uses guns.
At this point though there is no way to convince anyone who isn't interested or lost interest to gain it back until it releases and we see the true damage.
As a noted hater so do I. I have the Steel Book preordered so I'd love to be wrong.
hurricanes
Member
Thanks guys.
I just watched the on stage demo, I think I understand the anti-hype a bit: the visual and the scale of the fight is great but there arent many actions. Hopefully the full game will make the summons something more exciting to fight.
I have 0 hype for this game. Which is disappointing, as FFVII was my childhood sweetheart; I bloody adored that game.
The last FF game I bought was FFXIII.... I'm not getting burnt by a mediocre FF game again.
If its good, then great, I'll pick it up when its cheaper.
If not, nothing of value was lost.
The last FF game I bought was FFXIII.... I'm not getting burnt by a mediocre FF game again.
If its good, then great, I'll pick it up when its cheaper.
If not, nothing of value was lost.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Me too, especially if the characters are wildly praised I will be there.
I really hope they at minimum get that aspect right. I've sat through more tedious games just because of engaging characters.
But after all of 13 and Type 0 and even looking at Square's smaller titles I just don't see anything that would inspire the confidence in them creating characters that match appropriately to the style the choose. The way FF15 looks I expect people that feel like actual people and not caricatures. For something like Bravely Default simplistic is charming and fitting although the repeat to Bravely Second was a bit tiresome even for simplistic characters some growth would have been appreciated.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I also kind of have to admit that I hope the game fails to meet fan expectations so that Square Enix goes all the way out and makes XVI an all time classic after someone lights a fire under their ass.
It's not that I want the game to fail. I just watched the 2013 trailer for the first time in years (3 years? Christ) and I still get chills. It just doesn't look like the same game to me. That said, some of the stuff they showed at E3 (namely wait mode) was enough for me to pre order. But my expectations are still bare minimum.
It's not that I want the game to fail. I just watched the 2013 trailer for the first time in years (3 years? Christ) and I still get chills. It just doesn't look like the same game to me. That said, some of the stuff they showed at E3 (namely wait mode) was enough for me to pre order. But my expectations are still bare minimum.
That platinum demo was garbage trash and the E3 video of fighting that big dude was garbage trash. I have idea what's supposed to be interesting about this game. They've done a terrible job of showing it, and it's not like recent Final Fantasy games have been good enough to buy the benefit of my doubt.
I really wanted this game to turn out good, I've been looking forward to it since the Versus days. But the more I see it the more I fairly certain that's just not going to happen, so much of what they shown feels like it's lacking substance from the world, the characters, the combat, and the story, it all just comes across as hollow compared to older games in the series, and then there's all the technical issues on top of that.
I don't know, I might get it some time down the line when it's cheaper, but defiantly not day one at this point.
I don't know, I might get it some time down the line when it's cheaper, but defiantly not day one at this point.
Triggerhappytel
Member
It had a bad demo and looks very poor compared to some other open world games. I don't see why you think anyone needs to be hyped just because it's finally nearly here, when its recent showings have not been too hot.
Gentleman Jack
Member
This.
I don't want to dislike XV or anything but it's impossible to keep high hopes after this long of a wait for the game. The demos don't interest me and the damage XIII did to the brand means XV has to work all that much harder to earn my interest back. It doesn't get it by default anymore. It's not 2001 anymore. Final Fantasy has to be exciting on merits other than nostalgic charm.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
There's nothing high fantasy about this image. High fantasy generally does not have ninjas, body builder martial artists with tank tops, and gamblers wearing trench coats.
Also, FFVI exists in a steampunk world. It's certainly fantasy, but it's not any less fantasy than FFXV, VII, VIII, or X.
Also, your premise is flawed. Final Fantasy has had deep sci-fi roots since nearly its inception.
While I think that the next FF should have Amano as character designer and the setting should be something more akin to XIV or Tactics in terms of period, let's not call the game where you a martial artist dude body slams a train as high fantasy.
There is room for both types.
We've had a great amount of high fantasy with XI, XIII, and XIV as well as several spin offs.
Final Fantasy still gets alot of high fantasy love.
No.
OmegaDL50
Member
The opposite usually happens. S-E is putting a ton of money into FFXV. If it fails don't expect them to be more ambitious with XVI but rather be more conservative.
Sales is a indicator of success for the corporate suits and shareholders. If FFXV fails, expect an even tighter leash or the potential dismissal of several talented employees that could have contributed to FFXVI.
Hoping for failure that the next game is better. In AAA development, almost always the exact opposite occurs when this happens.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Nah.
FFXV is a failure of a pet project that took years to get off the ground due to idea tinkering and flawed engine.
If anything, I can't wait for XVI to be made on a completely clean slate. I cannot wait for the XV nightmare to be over and us Final Fantasy fans can finally move on from the failure that was Yuichi Wada, closed theaters, and Fabula Nova Crystalis. Thank Christ this shit ends in three months and we're finally free, people.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
They dropped the ball with Platinum Demo. I still ask why they released something that represents the main game in such a small way.
They messed up the E3 demonstration because the guy couldn't play the game and the build was unstable.
The E3 trailer was bad (despite it having great scenes). Slap some new Shimomura music on to it and people would have liked it.
Really, all they ever needed to do was adopt some VersusXIII style presentation/marketing for the game and people would be buzzing for it right now.
They have Gamescom and TGS to wow us now and 2.5 months to make sure that the game is solid in all areas.
I wonder how much of the negativity of the E3 showing has actually trickled back Tabata? (whoever greenlit afro jack needs a big slap on the face).
They messed up the E3 demonstration because the guy couldn't play the game and the build was unstable.
The E3 trailer was bad (despite it having great scenes). Slap some new Shimomura music on to it and people would have liked it.
Really, all they ever needed to do was adopt some VersusXIII style presentation/marketing for the game and people would be buzzing for it right now.
They have Gamescom and TGS to wow us now and 2.5 months to make sure that the game is solid in all areas.
I wonder how much of the negativity of the E3 showing has actually trickled back Tabata? (whoever greenlit afro jack needs a big slap on the face).