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What's up with all the FFXV hate?
- Thread starter Owari
- Start date
CrimsonSquall
Member
Lol, I think Balls has gone a bit nuts dealing with all the XV negativity.
Take a break!
EDIT: on another note, I really think that Tabata should have just done a 3rd update to Duscae and released that to the wild instead of Platinum. I think 2.0 actually looks and feels much better than Platinum now that I'm playing it again--and it gives a better idea of what to expect. Not to mention, the combat tweaks they've made are actually quite good.
Take a break!
EDIT: on another note, I really think that Tabata should have just done a 3rd update to Duscae and released that to the wild instead of Platinum. I think 2.0 actually looks and feels much better than Platinum now that I'm playing it again--and it gives a better idea of what to expect. Not to mention, the combat tweaks they've made are actually quite good.
Link please, I need to see this.
That was ages ago and I have since moved on.
Be careful, it might get to real for you.
I thought they were horribly executed in Duscae 2.0 though.
Felt pretty good in the tutorial, but we'll see once everyone is in the party.
Eh I was not a big fan of running to big yellow circle and timing qte inputs.
lol. I think you are using 'qte' a bit liberally here. I mean, they could just make it play out without input. I found the chaining of attacks was pretty good. It would be cool if they made it a little bit harder with each chain though.
The yellow circle thing is a bit crude, but at least it works well. Perhaps they can just make it a lightly illuminated area instead of an ugly yellow circle.
EDIT: Did they upgrade the graphics at all for 2.0? It looks better than I remember.
CrimsonSquall
Member
I wasn't ready
OmegaDL50
Member
I don't remember any demo of a action rpg game in recent memory that gave full access to all of the games systems and mechanics available to the player compared to the full game.
I think it's a bit premature to use the Duscae 2.0 or E3 build as an indicator of the full combat depth and options available to the player.
The basic combat system might be there, but higher level weapons and spells, and even special attacks like limit attacks, or even elemental weakness / resist effects, beyond what was shown with food buffs.
I'm not so foolish to write off something based on what is a fraction of product that isn't even available yet.
Of course this doesn't guarantee I won't be harsh in my judgement with the finished product once I put considerable time into it.
I think it's a bit premature to use the Duscae 2.0 or E3 build as an indicator of the full combat depth and options available to the player.
The basic combat system might be there, but higher level weapons and spells, and even special attacks like limit attacks, or even elemental weakness / resist effects, beyond what was shown with food buffs.
I'm not so foolish to write off something based on what is a fraction of product that isn't even available yet.
Of course this doesn't guarantee I won't be harsh in my judgement with the finished product once I put considerable time into it.
Oh wow. Thanks for posting this. I couldn't quite articulate the issues I have with this game. It doesn't really feel like a game at all.
Even after they improved Duscae.
Oh, so you've played FFXV? Please tell me you did, cause time traveling is more plausible and acceptable than you actually saying Witcher 3 is an inferior game... without even playing FFXV. Witcher 3, of all RPG games this generation.
Seconded!
^ about that quoted post, well, I don't really agree with the sentiment. Based on my playthrough of Duscae 2.0, I find the basic mechanics to be pretty satisfying (they still need tweaking obviously, but it feels pretty good). But this is a matter of opinion, no matter how much I could argue about it.
Honestly, I'm just not sure how people are finding Duscae 2.0 to be bad (in my opinion). Especially after potentially awesome stuff like the night battle massacres that happen. Shit gets intense, and makes me excited for the full game.
Honestly, I'm just not sure how people are finding Duscae 2.0 to be bad (in my opinion). Especially after potentially awesome stuff like the night battle massacres that happen. Shit gets intense, and makes me excited for the full game.
Unfortunately I've never played Duscae 2.0, only seen the videos, but he managed to describe my own thoughts quite well regarding combat mechanics shown in the demo, that final part where you play as older Noctis. Game looks gorgeous, mostly because production design is top notch, same goes for attention to details as described in that post, little animations that bring the entire boy band to life. However, I agree that this 'input lag', inability to fluidly merge animation and visuals and eventually gameplay together, is a much deeper problem that might bother casual, pick up and play audience (hardcores will probably dedicate their time to learn the system better and not think about it's faults). For example, when I play action games like DMC or Bayonetta... or 3rd person action games like MGSV:TPP, or recent RPG entries (Witcher 3, Dragon Age) what's evident from the start is, no matter how (poorly) skilled I am, game looks manageable even with the basic skill set. Eventually you get to a point of mastery of course, finesse is eventually required down the line, but FFXV right now feels counter-intuitive immediately upon grabbing that joystick. Dodging feels late, attacking feels weird (Why would I hold a button to attack?), framerate didn't help (I know it's something you want to fix before the release date) etc. Now I managed to master that demo fight, took me two-three tries, but never did I play it thinking WOW THIS IS FUN. More like why am I torturing myself with this half-representation? Final Fantasy XII did something brilliant in my opinion: full control of the characters, intuitive attack-defense system, easy to lock-on target while maintaining distance. It was MMO-ish but still Final Fantasy, a group, epic, stylized effort.
The thing is, it all really makes sense in Duscae. There is a tutorial for all of the combat mechanics. Which is why I find it really weird that they didn't bother to put it in Platinum Demo.
They go through all of it in sparring sessions- you learn how to dodge properly, parry properly, and while fighting the hordes on the plains, you can get a feel for why it's easier just to hold the button to attack. It will be even better when you get weapon switching.
But yes, those things don't really show well in Platinum because they drop you in the fight after playing as a kid.
While playing Platinum > "this is cool, I can see how this will be interesting in the game"
While playing Duscae 2.0 > "this is fun! Holy shit, look at that giant in the lake. Holy jeez at the hobgoblins that spawn at night! I want to level up so I can smoke these guys."
Platinum Demo was kind of a mistake.
OmegaDL50
Member
You know what would be annoyance to discover that the "Hold button to attack" was some concept to designed to draw the smartphone users to try the the console released FFXV.
I mean aren't most Smartphone action games controls about holding the touch screen in certain areas.
SE wouldn't be foolish to use a hold button for awesome, as a draw for the smartphone audience who aren't used to the tactile response of actually pressing buttons to attack instead,
Nevermind, I don't even want to consider this train of thought. Clearly there must be a better reason why the hold button to attack is implemented instead of my theory instead. At least I'd hope as such.
I mean aren't most Smartphone action games controls about holding the touch screen in certain areas.
SE wouldn't be foolish to use a hold button for awesome, as a draw for the smartphone audience who aren't used to the tactile response of actually pressing buttons to attack instead,
Nevermind, I don't even want to consider this train of thought. Clearly there must be a better reason why the hold button to attack is implemented instead of my theory instead. At least I'd hope as such.
I didn't really like the 'hold button to attack' thing in theory, but after playing Duscae again, I can see why it's there. Because sometimes you get these gaps of time where you can hit an enemy 4-5 times in a row, and it just ends up being smoother to hold the button. That doesn't mean that it only consists of that, though. Because it's just a window. Other enemies are rolling in, and then there are links, and then you end up needing to heal for one reason or another.
Also, I'm not sure how they changed the parry timing in Platinum, but in Duscae it's pretty easy to learn.
Also, I'm not sure how they changed the parry timing in Platinum, but in Duscae it's pretty easy to learn.
Original Man
Member
Wow, 40 pages of why people hate FFXV. I have a feeling there's gonna be a lot of salty people when the full game releases
NoctisVsStar
Member
I'm quite shocked myself lol Personally speaking I know I'll love the combat I've put in more than 10 hours on it. I just want a decent story and I'll be happy I already love the characters.
Wouldn't it lead you to believe that if the game releases and is actually good that those people would be happy?
I feel like I could easily put 10 hrs into Duscae demo just fooling around and following the little skits and quests.
And these monster designs...the big one in the lake is one of the coolest monster designs I've seen this gen. I think once people actually play the real game, opinions will change. It's been a long time and it's easy to get distracted nitpicking videos and stupid things that SE is doing.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Ehh a large portion would still hate on it because they will be afraid that if this game is successful, this will be the new direction that SE takes (combat wise no more turn-based). I have the sneaky suspicion that some want it to fail just for that reason alone. I still believe future titles will be turn based or a hybrid of it but with more freedom.
Some people have already decided they hate the game no matter how it is when it finally releases. Long threads arguing in circles are guaranteed.
DrROBschiz
Member
If they are going to continue the action rpg route I would rather they took inspiration from Dark Souls, Monster Hunter, Zelda instead of Witcher 3/DBZ/Bayonetta
YankeeDonB
Member
I can definitely see the comparison with DA:I - hold to attack and the attempts to please both tactical and action fans, and I too worry about the outcome of try to please everyone design.
However, I played DA:I to completion and found the battle system incredibly bland (and that's after enjoying DA:O). Personally, I had a lot more fun fighting baddies in Duscae. Warp and just dodge alone, not to mention weapon switching and special skills, made XV far more engaging and, to my mind, functional, than even high level DA:I play. And, as apparently can't be said enough around here, Duscae (and Platinum) are feature incomplete demos. Doesn't mean the final product will be good, and I'm sympathetic to your issues with animation priority, but still not the final product experienced over the course of a whole game.
As for "pretty decent" writing and characters, I'd say no. DA:I's writing was a hodgepodge of disjointed fantasy tropes and poor approximations at more modern voices. The characters were one-note and totally shoe-horned into the story, which amounted to typical recent Bioware you're the chosen one in a generic world spanning epic conflict that's actually not that epic piffle. Iron Bull was pretty cool, and I was happy to see Morrigan again, but I found every other character grating or a total non-entity. None of that gets into the disjointed and totally static world filled with lowest common denominator paint by numbers quests, or the strategy table stuff and the disappointing keep.
That's all my opinion obviously, but it's still mystifying to me that DA:I was received so well. Specific to this topic, it's a comparison that, so far, I think sets XV off in a more flattering than harsh light. Haven't seen enough of XV's writing yet (although that's where I'm least hopeful), but we already know that the story is being built around long-standing character relationships, there's a seamless huge world filled with a diverse and impressive bestiary, the music we've heard is top notch, there are huge interestingly designed cities to explore, potentially engaging side content (monster hunts, coliseum, fishing) Lots of promising signs. No denying some worrying ones too, but it's not clear to me that doom and gloom is the inarguably more rational disposition toward this game.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Same goes to the opposition though. Some people have already decided they love the game no matter how it is when it finally releases. Then you have people like us who desperately wants this to be good yet simply not feeling it. I am excited for the game's release though, but part of the main reason is because we could then finally move on from this to Ito's new masterpiece that is FFXVI. *crosses finger*
OmegaDL50
Member
If that was the case, it would make this thread alone be wall of shame to look back on to.
There are quite a few people in this thread who outright adamant the game the can't possibly be good for any reason whatsoever, I've seen far too many people push the hyperbole and seem so sure of themselves the game will be a disaster.
As I said before, I'm not so foolish to write off something based on what is a fraction of product that isn't even available yet.
Once I try out the finished product and put some time into it, I'll state my thoughts on the game.
YankeeDonB
Member
Agreed, though I'm still glad I got to mess around with Iron Giant.
My favorite moments in Duscae were heading for a campsight, suddenly ambushed by goblins, just getting them cleaned up when in comes a drop ship with 12 creepy Niflheim robot soldiers. Now I'm at half health, running around, getting electrocuted, and then more goblins! Some pretty hectic but fun moments in there, especially when you turn the tide with some slick perfect dodges, a well timed armiger, etc.
Vincent Grayson
Member
The last thing I ever want to see is Final Fantasy aping the slow, deliberate combat of games like Dark Souls.
Keep that shit far away.
NoctisVsStar
Member
I always thought seeing monsters in a open field with a fixed battle space to engage combat is the way to go. Having control of your party on the fly in a turn based-esque way is what future FF titles should do. Should be fast and snappy but idk if people want characters lining up and such.
DrROBschiz
Member
Lol
So you enjoy the superhero stuff? Advent Children the game?
Sorry but we will just have to disagree here
That's pretty much what turn-based battles are though.
I love Dark Souls, but I don't think Final Fantasy should play like that style.
DrROBschiz
Member
I only cite dark souls in that the combat gives the player full control
Its also why I listed Monster Hunter and hell throw Dragons Dogma in there
I HATE tethered combats systems in 3D. Its annoying
OmegaDL50
Member
I just think FF should try to maintain its genre conventions instead of trying to becoming a amalgamation of something beyond what the series founded itself upon.
Change is is a concept with the FF series true. However I would think the concept of change would factor within the context of the genre it started in.
Folks shouldn't expect the FF series to become a full on action series.
Just the same I don't expect anyone demand Souls or another heavier action oriented game to become a turned based RPG.
I'm an open minded to FFXV because in concept stages it was planned as a side game, and was not designed as mainline title since the beginning, so I never expected to deviate to much just to accomodate being a mainline FF game because of a title change.
With that said, not every game needs to cater each person, and that is perfectly okay.
People have played the FF series for nearly 30 years because it they enjoy RPGs, and want to continue to play them because they are RPGs.
Change is is a concept with the FF series true. However I would think the concept of change would factor within the context of the genre it started in.
Folks shouldn't expect the FF series to become a full on action series.
Just the same I don't expect anyone demand Souls or another heavier action oriented game to become a turned based RPG.
I'm an open minded to FFXV because in concept stages it was planned as a side game, and was not designed as mainline title since the beginning, so I never expected to deviate to much just to accomodate being a mainline FF game because of a title change.
With that said, not every game needs to cater each person, and that is perfectly okay.
People have played the FF series for nearly 30 years because it they enjoy RPGs, and want to continue to play them because they are RPGs.
My dream was Final Form KH2 type combat for all the swords when it was Versus back in the day and the only Versus city combat but that's over so idk, I've not played any demos so my commentary can only come from what I've observed but I don't think the combat appeals to me. I'll deffo try the game when they eventually release the PC version or if they don't(yeah right) release it then in a few years when the Neo or whatever PS iteration that's out has enough exclusives for me to give a damn.
lukeskymac
Member
I played the demo and it looked, sounded and played terribly for such a big game in development for such a long time. That's all there is to it.
Vincent Grayson
Member
I enjoy what I've seen of FFXV's combat. Would I want that for every future title going forward? No, probably not. But I definitely have no interest in Souls-type combat going anywhere near Final Fantasy.
I'm actually 100% all for action combat in Final Fantasy. Pretty sure if you look deep enough in my post history you'll see me say that in FF7R and old XV threads. The problem to me isn't action combat in theory, it's that the combat itself feels very unsatisfying and clunky. The whole game just has a weird feeling of jank that bothers me.
Also not optimistic at all about the story, rip :x
OmegaDL50
Member
4 to 5 years of active development is par for the course of the typical FF game.
The game may have been announced back in 2006, it was mainly pre-production and planning until 2012 when actual development started.
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EDIT: Another thing I see people gloss over when they talk about long development times in regards to FFXV is the fact that the game in it's original planning stages was at the time was a PS3 game on a completely different engine.
A lot of folks are assuming that the code base for Versus XIII development for the PS3 on the Crystal Tools announced in 2006 is mainly the same with some changes for the 2013 announced FFXV on entirely different hardware, with new staff, on an entirely new engine,
The assets were also overhauled in significant manor. Case in point the graphical assets for FFXV are representative of a PS4 game and not just a carry over port on the scraps of a PS3 game on completely different engine.
We hardly know anything about FFXV's story to begin with beyond some the minor details centered around reclaiming a lost kingdom, and few of the background story and minor bits of lore.
This is a hilarious response considering that the Iron Giant FF15 video is trotted out as 'proof' of how deep the combat can be, when it's basically a combo video. If that's rolled out as "how FF15 can be played", then why is it 'unfair' to roll out videos showing how these other ARPGs 'can be played'?
OmegaDL50
Member
The basic combat system might be there, but higher level weapons and spells, and even special attacks like limit attacks, or even elemental weakness / resist effects, beyond what was shown. It's not really reasonable to compare a already finished game to a demo.
I think it's a bit premature to use the Duscae 2.0, Platinum, or E3 build as an indicator of the full combat depth and options available to the player for FFXV.
In fact, when has any demo of a action rpg game in recent memory ever gave full access to all of the games systems and mechanics available to the player and didn't have options and combat specific features locked away and only available to use in the full game?
YankeeDonB
Member
From my perspective it's certainly not unfair as long as its recognized that one is a final product that people have extensive experience with and the other is not.
But I still don't see how standalone footage from Tales of Zestiria (of all games!) is somehow an argument in itself, as it looks drab, unresponsive, and really not at all smooth.
And while I believe SO5 probably has generally fun combat, the physical combos don't present very well in clip form, given that the effects obscure all the points of contact.
Could find some sick footage from Graces that would be far more impressive (although that's separate battle stage, and everything else in that game is bottom tier).
But all this seems to be side stepping a broader issue -- demonstrating that something is not "best in class" (which from my perspective your Nier video, but not the other two, does) is quite different from proving that it is in no way engaging or fun. For me, at least, that's the real question about XV's combat. Does it get the job done or does it actively detract from the rest of the experience?
I could see it going either way based on what we've been shown and the demos, and I could also see people falling on either side of the line in good faith just based on their particular preferences and expectations.
I'd just hope people who are interested in the game give it a fair shot at release without buying wholesale into some pre-engineered consensus, positive or negative.
dragonzdogma
Member
Could you do me a favor?
First, let me know if you played and beat 3 games from the list below,
Dragons Dogma
Devil May cry 1,2,3
Ninja Gaiden(xbox),black(xbox),sigma(PS3),2(Xbob360)
Bayonetta 1,2
Okay,what did you think of FFXV Duscae,Duscae2.0,Platinum Demo, combat?
Thanks
IMO FFXV suffers from the lack of animation cancels, this is what makes the above games succeed in the fluidity of the combat.
BUT,that does not mean that the gameplay will not be fun,in fact,playing episode duscae was enough for me to get a feel of the game and I know it will be successful.
First, let me know if you played and beat 3 games from the list below,
Dragons Dogma
Devil May cry 1,2,3
Ninja Gaiden(xbox),black(xbox),sigma(PS3),2(Xbob360)
Bayonetta 1,2
Okay,what did you think of FFXV Duscae,Duscae2.0,Platinum Demo, combat?
Thanks
IMO FFXV suffers from the lack of animation cancels, this is what makes the above games succeed in the fluidity of the combat.
BUT,that does not mean that the gameplay will not be fun,in fact,playing episode duscae was enough for me to get a feel of the game and I know it will be successful.
Starlightmuse
Member
As I said, you need some good proofs to such an statement about the integrity of pretty much EVERY game journalist in the world, which, of course, you don't have.
Knock it off with that bullshit; there are several journalists in this website who will have a couple of things to say to you if they read this, call into question the integrity of a journalist is the worst insult you can give to them, because you are basically saying they are corrupts.
Also, if you think devs give journalist preview builds to give high scores to their games it makes even less sense at all; pretty much every dev give review copies to the press. So, every game should be goty (?)
So, nope, is not shocking, it is bullshit and a huge disrespect to every journalist in this website.