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[YankeeDonB]

Could you do me a favor?

First, let me know if you played and beat 3 games from the list below,

Dragons Dogma
Devil May cry 1,2,3
Ninja Gaiden(xbox),black(xbox),sigma(PS3),2(Xbob360)
Bayonetta 1,2


Okay,what did you think of FFXV Duscae,Duscae2.0,Platinum Demo, combat?

Thanks

IMO FFXV suffers from the lack of animation cancels, this is what makes the above games succeed in the fluidity of the combat.
BUT,that does not mean that the gameplay will not be fun,in fact,playing episode duscae was enough for me to get a feel of the game and I know it will be successful.

I've played and beat DD and Bayonetta 1, and messed around w/ DMC 1 and 3.

Clearly, the combat in those feels far more responsive than what's in XV, and yeah, animation cancel is a big part of that.

You can cancel into a dodge in XV's demos, at least some of the time, but timing seems a little weird and I'm not sure when it is and is not available in different demos.

I get that Tabata and co wanted to make the combat animations feel weighty and realistic, and I like that to an extent. But Noctis' warp ability seems an easy and plausible way to build in animation canceling, even if it's a higher level technique. Like, he's swinging his sword, and before finishing transferring his weight he immediately warps into the slightly different position required to swing the other way.

This could look cool, allow responsiveness, and still gel w/ the presentation and systems they have in place.

Given that Duscae 2.0 had perfect dodge and just dodge, maybe some of this will happen as he levels up in the final game....

 

[Mailbox]

Could you do me a favor?

First, let me know if you played and beat 3 games from the list below,

Dragons Dogma
Devil May cry 1,2,3
Ninja Gaiden(xbox),black(xbox),sigma(PS3),2(Xbob360)
Bayonetta 1,2


Okay,what did you think of FFXV Duscae,Duscae2.0,Platinum Demo, combat?

Thanks

IMO FFXV suffers from the lack of animation cancels, this is what makes the above games succeed in the fluidity of the combat.
BUT,that does not mean that the gameplay will not be fun,in fact,playing episode duscae was enough for me to get a feel of the game and I know it will be successful.

3/4 of those suggestions are character-action games, and not action rpg's. 2 seperate genres going for 2 seperate ways to play.

FF15 isn't a character-action game.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

Could you do me a favor?

First, let me know if you played and beat 3 games from the list below,

Dragons Dogma
Devil May cry 1,2,3
Ninja Gaiden(xbox),black(xbox),sigma(PS3),2(Xbob360)
Bayonetta 1,2


Okay,what did you think of FFXV Duscae,Duscae2.0,Platinum Demo, combat?

Thanks

IMO FFXV suffers from the lack of animation cancels, this is what makes the above games succeed in the fluidity of the combat.
BUT,that does not mean that the gameplay will not be fun,in fact,playing episode duscae was enough for me to get a feel of the game and I know it will be successful.

All but the Ninja Gaiden games, and it seemed perfectly fine to me in both demos. But then, I'm not coming to this game *for* it's combat, unlike a DMC or Bayonetta-type game, where the tight combat is really the only reason to play (since the stories, characters, level design, etc are generally nothing special).

FFXV, like all previous FF games (IMO) is first and foremost about the story and characters. As long as the gameplay is functional (and ideally, doing something interesting), I'm not going to worry about things like animation cancels.

 

[chozen]

3/4 of those suggestions are character-action games, and not action rpg's. 2 seperate genres going for 2 seperate ways to play.

FF15 isn't a character-action game.

People fail to realize this and still compare it to DMC.

 

[dragonzdogma]

People fail to realize this and still compare it to DMC.

Everyone was comparing Dragons dogma to Devil may cry when it came out,
it's a perfect acceptable comparison. In fact some the of the moves found in Dragons Dogma are ripped right out of Devil may cry.

3/4 of those suggestions are character-action games, and not action rpg's. 2 seperate genres going for 2 seperate ways to play.

FF15 isn't a character-action game.

TBH, there was very little RPG elements found in Duscae, there wasnt even magic or any real need to manage inventory or items.

I day say Episode duscae felt 90% action game/beat em up 10% RPG

 

[Mediking]

Could you do me a favor?

First, let me know if you played and beat 3 games from the list below,

Dragons Dogma
Devil May cry 1,2,3
Ninja Gaiden(xbox),black(xbox),sigma(PS3),2(Xbob360)
Bayonetta 1,2


Okay,what did you think of FFXV Duscae,Duscae2.0,Platinum Demo, combat?

Thanks

IMO FFXV suffers from the lack of animation cancels, this is what makes the above games succeed in the fluidity of the combat.
BUT,that does not mean that the gameplay will not be fun,in fact,playing episode duscae was enough for me to get a feel of the game and I know it will be successful.

Played and beat Bayonetta 1 and Bayonetta 2 on my Wii U.

Freaking loved Episode Duscae. VERY fun and I mastered the combat.

Platinum Demo's combat is much harder to master and I'm gonna need to invest time to get the hang of it but I will.

 

[chozen]

TBH, there was very little RPG elements found in Duscae, I day say Episode duscae felt 90% action game/beat em up 10% RPG

Duscae demo

Demo

D
E
M
O

Btw Dragons dogma feels nothing like DMC3 even if it "looks" like it... somehow.

You are comparing an open world game to a linear character action game with no rpg elements what so ever.

DD and XV feel a bit sluggish in comparison because they have a lot more things to consider then just 1000 hit comboing static enemies.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

I feel the complaint for holding a button to attack is a bit weird.

Xenoblade had an auto attack without any button usage when you are near enemies. I find that helps reduce player tension from constantly mashing buttons in every little battle you wind up in. It also is there to charge up the other skills characters have.

With XV, the basic attack seems largely used to regenerate MP for other skills Noctis has such as warping and dodging. I think constantly mashing a button would become annoying after a while to regenerate such an important fighting component.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Clearly, the combat in those feels far more responsive than what's in XV, and yeah, animation cancel is a big part of that.

You can cancel into a dodge in XV's demos, at least some of the time, but timing seems a little weird and I'm not sure when it is and is not available in different demos.

Definitely agree the time it's a bit weird but I can get it down with the greatsword, it would be ideal if it were a bit snappier and quicker.
https://youtu.be/PAO2Wpp9rYc
https://youtu.be/_X1KPvRRyn8
https://youtu.be/wTzTXKMtqXs

I don't know if this counts switching back and forth between weapons.
https://youtu.be/4HUQCD-SOqA

 

[TheJollyCorner]

Over 2000 posts... wow.
Are we taking bets yet whether XV will be as wildly divisive as FFVIII or XII yet... or more-so?

As a long time FF fan this entire saga has been a wild ride to witness... and we still have 3+ months until release. Lord knows what the following few months (years?) will be like regarding this game. @_@

 

[Sami+]

We hardly know anything about FFXV's story to begin with beyond some the minor details centered around reclaiming a lost kingdom, and few of the background story and minor bits of lore.

Almost all of the cutscenes we've seen so far look horrible imo. Hate most of the characters, dialogue is anime schlock, etc. I mean it's cool if you disagree but lets not pretend we haven't seen enough to form an opinion :0

 

[dragonzdogma]

But Noctis' warp ability seems an easy and plausible way to build in animation canceling, even if it's a higher level technique.

I'm really looking forward to this, I'm hoping the warp tech could have a semi auto lock on feel, sorta like Ninja Gaiden slash attacks, where you didn't have to necessarily press a button to lock on to the nearest enemy,combine that with some air step sword attack and warp cancels and you could have a nice deep combat system that will truly shine.

If final fantasy XV added the ability to bounce off enemies by pressing the jump button upon collision with them in mid air to elevate you higher, this would make for a very safe strat and allow you to keep you MP from draining further.

Dragons Dogma stryders do this by using their grapple hook to keep you airbound.

Ninja gaiden did this by bouncing off the walls and being able to bounce and run on top of enemies.

Devil may cry featured a double jump plus air control via gun shots.

 

[YankeeDonB]

Definitely agree the time it's a bit weird but I can get it down with the greatsword, it would be ideal if it were a bit snappier and quicker.
https://youtu.be/PAO2Wpp9rYc
https://youtu.be/_X1KPvRRyn8
https://youtu.be/wTzTXKMtqXs

I don't know if this counts switching back and forth between weapons.
https://youtu.be/4HUQCD-SOqA

Nice, should've figured you'd be the one to provide solid evidence!

These also highlight the biggest plus for me in the demo combat -- the mobility. Being able to warp almost anywhere at any time really opens up combat, perhaps in a similar way that warping opens up stealth in Dishonored.

While I get that some will always prefer character action-like action combat, and some will prefer deliberate combat like Dark Souls, that so many seem so convinced that there are basically no redeeming features to what XV has shown still surprises me.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Almost all of the cutscenes we've seen so far look horrible imo. Hate most of the characters, dialogue is anime schlock, etc. I mean it's cool if you disagree but lets not pretend we haven't seen enough to form an opinion :0

We could be on the day before release with the story and writing getting universally panned and some here would still be insisting that we hadn't seen enough.

 

[stargateheaven]

Does anyone know if theres any more surprises in store for us?

I honestly feel like too much has been revealed. This doesn't normally happen with FF games

 

[YankeeDonB]

We could be on the day before release with the story and writing getting universally panned and some here would still be insisting that we hadn't seen enough.

And we could be on the day before release with the story and writing getting universally appreciated and some here would still be insisting that, based on a few early and incomplete cutscenes, it's anime trash. So what?

 

[chefbags]

Does anyone know if theres any more surprises in store for us?

I honestly feel like too much has been revealed. This doesn't normally happen with FF games

I mean as far as story goes we've only known about the first two chapters of the game and that's it.

There's ring magic that we got no clue what it does.

And I'm sure there's a bunch of weapons/abilities we haven't seen.

I feel like everything they've showed is not even close to the middle/end of the game as far as story, weapons, and abilities go.

 

[stargateheaven]

I just meant that FF games don't normally get so many videos before release.

And also im sure tabata said some footage we've seen is "near the end of the game"

Its ok though

 

[Vincent Grayson]

Does anyone know if theres any more surprises in store for us?

I honestly feel like too much has been revealed. This doesn't normally happen with FF games

We still know basically nothing at all about character progression, the story past the first chapter, any of the side characters, etc. Despite how many times they've talked about and shone this game, if anything, I feel like I know far less than I did going into many previous FF titles.

 

[Mediking]

Does anyone know if theres any more surprises in store for us?

I honestly feel like too much has been revealed. This doesn't normally happen with FF games

Always go on media blackout on games you really care about. The only trailers I keep watching of FFXV is the Uncovered stuff and the Niflhelm trailer. I never read the coverage from GameInformer, refuse to get spoiled on the 1st two chapters, etc. It's the same thing about Persona 5. REALLY care about that game but I feel like any more information about the game would ruin the surprise so I ignore everything about that game except VERY minor stuff.

 

[Mifec]

I just meant that FF games don't normally get so many videos before release.

And also im sure tabata said some footage we've seen is "near the end of the game"

Its ok though

Surely there are more characters we've not seen. The cast being limited to the one shown would be extremely disappointing.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Surely there are more characters we've not seen. The cast being limited to the one shown would be extremely disappointing.

There are a lot of characters that we have yet to see in the game. Niflheim empire has a hierarchy and all we have seen is Ardyn.

There is also the mystery hooded man, CID and potentially other character on Noctis' side that we have yet to see in any trailer.

 

[MogCakes]

I'm really looking forward to this, I'm hoping the warp tech could have a semi auto lock on feel, sorta like Ninja Gaiden slash attacks, where you didn't have to necessarily press a button to lock on to the nearest enemy,combine that with some air step sword attack and warp cancels and you could have a nice deep combat system that will truly shine.

If final fantasy XV added the ability to bounce off enemies by pressing the jump button upon collision with them in mid air to elevate you higher, this would make for a very safe strat and allow you to keep you MP from draining further.

Dragons Dogma stryders do this by using their grapple hook to keep you airbound.

Ninja gaiden did this by bouncing off the walls and being able to bounce and run on top of enemies.

In the video I posted some pages back, that is exactly what the player does against the IG minus literally bouncing off it or a mid air jump. I feel like people are downplaying just how technical pulling off that level of combat really is, or just plain haven't bothered to try.

 

[Ophelion]

Browsing through some of the replies here, I saw a lot of people reflecting my concerns: the characters don't seem interesting, so no matter how good the story is I'm not likely to care. There's just not enough variety. Character design is too similar, no color, no alternate races, no women. It'd be like if your whole party in FF8 was a palate swapped Squall. The nice Squall, the mean Squall, the silly Squall... Even having been the right age to really like Squall when I played through that game the first time, that would be completely awful.

The demos have convinced me that the action-RPG combat will be stilted and clunky. Each attack looks great, but feels terrible. It reminds me of everything I hate about melee combat in Assassin's Creed games. And I fucking hate the busted ass swordplay in AssCreed. I do not like that spells are like items. I don't feel strong or powerful during combat, quick or clever, desperate, furious. The only thing gameplay makes me feel is either "Oh, look that's pretty." or "God, this is frustrating" based on if I'm in combat or not.

Just doesn't seem like a good game. Makes me sad to say that because some of the first teasers of Versus seemed fascinating, but this is just not what I want from Final Fantasy. It's shocking to me to say this, but it's looking more and more like the only good numbered Final Fantasy in the last ten years will turn out to be the revised version of FF XIV. Too bad I don't really like MMO's.

FFXV has also made me leery of what the revised FF VII is going to be like. Like if the revised version has combat as unsatisfying as what I've played in this game, they can keep it. Would make the game a giant slog. I'll just play the PS1 version again if I really need to experience that game again.

FFXV is just kind of a bummer. Just glad P5 looks so great. Not because I'm some Persona fanboy who hates all other JRPGs by default, but because Team Persona seems like they are firing on all cylinders right now and are really playing to the strengths of their franchise while Square seems like they've been lost at sea since the beginning of the 21st freaking century.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

https://gfycat.com/WhirlwindOldfashionedCamel


https://youtu.be/E69ZeEH5HTA?list=LL0-SPDeUfAUWkmqItsV3ilw&t=11



This. There was someone in this thread earlier who had no idea that holding the stick in a certain direction did different things, he just held O.

In the platinum demo this isn't even explained. You're assuming everyone played Duscae. Further more, pressing the analog stick in different directions to do different moves is not a common action game technique. In fact it's the opposite.

Why are almost all the XV fans so smug about "gitting gud" when all they're doing is doing combos and flashy shit on an Iron Giant? What's there to git gud from? Git gud is usually reserved for hard games where skill matters. What is skillful about fighting an Iron Giant in the Platinum Demo? Okay, you stayed in the air for a few seconds. Who cares? Being smug about your XV skillz is about as funny as being smug about your Kingdom Hearts skillz. Utterly comical.

You wouldn't last a second in Ninja Gaiden 2 360 version. Talking about git gud when you're just railing offense on a mindless boss that sits there half the time.

Lmao I tell you, these younger FF fans are hilarious as fuck. So desperate.

We need to put these young kids in their place.

 

[『Inaba Resident』]

In the platinum demo this isn't even explained. You're assuming everyone played Duscae. Further more, pressing the analog stick in different directions to do different moves is not a common action game technique. In fact it's the opposite.

Why are almost all the XV fans so smug about "gitting gud" when all they're doing is doing combos and flashy shit on an Iron Giant? What's there to git gud from? Git gud is usually reserved for hard games where skill matters. What is skillful about fighting an Iron Giant in the Platinum Demo? Okay, you you stayed in the air for s few second. Who cares? Being smug about your XV skillz is about as funny as being smug about your Kingdom Hearts skillz. Utterly comical.

You wouldn't last a second in Ninja Gaiden 2 360 version. Talking about git gud when you're just railing offense on a mindless boss that sits there half the time.

Lmao I tell you, these younger FF fans are hilarious as fuck. So desperate.

Not agreeing or disagreeing but this post sounds extremely smug tbh

 

[Dark_castle]

KH2 on level 1 critical mode is genuinely challenging though, and players do need to "git gud" there.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Not agreeing or disagreeing but this post sounds extremely smug tbh

Smug? Nah, at this point, I'm laughing so hard. "Git gud" at fighting a boss that sits there on his knee half the battle.

KH2 on level 1 critical mode is genuinely challenging though, and players do need to "git gud" there.

KH1 hard mode requires more skill than that demo for sure.

 

[『Inaba Resident』]

Smug? Nah, at this point, I'm laughing so hard. "Git gud" at fighting a boss that sits there on his knee half the battle.

Ok...
Stuff like this doesn't facilitate a good discussion at all

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Ok...
Stuff like this doesn't facilitate a good discussion at all

And "git gud" does?

Please.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Not agreeing or disagreeing but this post sounds extremely smug tbh

Me being a SF player this is a tame response IMO

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Me being a SF player this is a tame response IMO

Y'all are doing the equivalent of making a combo video by using a dummy in training mode and saying "git gud".

 

[Elfstruck]

You're right. 90 is selling it short. Probably around 94-95.

No way this game is hitting 95, considering this gen's scores. At the moment, the only game I see hitting 95 is Zelda:BoTW.

 

[『Inaba Resident』]

And "git gud" does?

Please.

I never said it does. I haven't even taken a stance on this particular argument at all. I just think complaining about people being smug and then being extremely smug in the same post is pretty silly.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

And we could be on the day before release with the story and writing getting universally appreciated and some here would still be insisting that, based on a few early and incomplete cutscenes, it's anime trash. So what?

Nah. If it turns out that what we haven't seen is good, then lots of people will believe it. But there's no reason that we can't judge what we've already seen.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I never said it does. I haven't even taken a stance on this particular argument at all. I just think complaining about people being smug and then being extremely smug in the same post is pretty silly.

Smug is what you get from that post?

 

[DrROBschiz]

I've played and beat DD and Bayonetta 1, and messed around w/ DMC 1 and 3.

Clearly, the combat in those feels far more responsive than what's in XV, and yeah, animation cancel is a big part of that.

You can cancel into a dodge in XV's demos, at least some of the time, but timing seems a little weird and I'm not sure when it is and is not available in different demos.

I get that Tabata and co wanted to make the combat animations feel weighty and realistic, and I like that to an extent. But Noctis' warp ability seems an easy and plausible way to build in animation canceling, even if it's a higher level technique. Like, he's swinging his sword, and before finishing transferring his weight he immediately warps into the slightly different position required to swing the other way.

This could look cool, allow responsiveness, and still gel w/ the presentation and systems they have in place.

Given that Duscae 2.0 had perfect dodge and just dodge, maybe some of this will happen as he levels up in the final game....

My bitch issue is the inability to reliably aim strikes like in DD, Dark Souls, and Monster Hunter

Thanks to a handy lock on tether you are forced into wildly flying around the screen UNLESS you master animation cancels and even then you need to work around the jank

 

[Dark_castle]

Well in all fairness it's reckless to assess the difficulty of the game based on some demo, and also there will be difficulty settings, probably gonna have hard mode. But as I previously mentioned, none of these matter that much if the base game is problematic. Challenge can make a good game design great, but it can't really make a bad one good.

 

[『Inaba Resident』]

Smug is what you get from that post?

Smug, condescending, snobbish; yes. I just think its unnecessary but whatever

 

[MogCakes]

And "git gud" does?

Please.

Maybe if you opened up a bit to try and understand what goes into technical play in the plat demo IG fight you wouldn't be dismissing it so offhand. It's SE's fault for not letting us know it even existed and not trying to at least teach some semblence of the actual combat in the lead-up. It isn't perfect by a long shot, but it does have the potential to be great.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Maybe if you opened up a bit to try and understand what goes into technical play in the plat demo IG fight you wouldn't be dismissing it so offhand. It's SE's fault for not letting us know it even existed and not trying to at least teach some semblence of the actual combat in the lead-up. It isn't perfect by a long shot, but it does have the potential to be great.

What makes you think I haven't? I played the Platinum Demo for about 5 hours according to my demo time clock. I used every hidden weapon as well. I'm still not impressed and found the boss fight to be absolutely terrible. Telling people to get good from that boss fight and combat system makes the entire pro-XV fanbase look like absolute fucking tools.

Smug, condescending, snobbish; yes

Condescending, is the right word. And people are going to be condescending when you just tell people to "git gud".

Honestly, I find your weird defense for your friends and XV's defenders pathetic tirades on others "gitting gud" to be equally as comical. You expect people to just sit there and allow that to happen?

 

[『Inaba Resident』]

Honestly, I find your weird defense for your friends and XV's defenders pathetic tirades on others "gitting gud" to be equally as comical. You expect people to just sit there and allow that to happen?

Again, I've taken no stance on whether "gitting gud" is a good argument or not for XV's combat.

 

[Sami+]

What makes you think I haven't? I played the Platinum Demo for about 5 hours according to my demo time clock. I used every hidden weapon as well. I'm still not impressed and found the boss fight to be absolutely terrible. Telling people to get good from that boss fight and combat system makes the entire pro-XV fanbase look like absolute fucking tools.




Condescending, is the right word. And people are going to be condescending when you just tell people to "git gud".

Honestly, I find your weird defense for your friends and XV's defenders pathetic tirades on others "gitting gud" to be equally as comical. You expect people to just sit there and allow that to happen?

Dude I agree with you but you're kind of being a jerk :0

The git gud shit is dumb and XV's combat feels like hot garbage but you don't have to be so mean either, chill

 

[MogCakes]

Condescending, is the right word. And people are going to be condescending when you just tell people to "git gud".

Honestly, I find your weird defense for your friends and XV's defenders pathetic tirades on others "gitting gud" to be equally as comical. You expect people to just sit there and allow that to happen?

You might want to consider taking a break and calming down. Nobody is here to insult you.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Y'all are doing the equivalent of making a combo video by using a dummy in training mode and saying "git gud".

I was defending you idk why you taking shots at me lol I never once said git gud.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

What makes you think I haven't? I played the Platinum Demo for about 5 hours according to my demo time clock. I used every hidden weapon as well. I'm still not impressed and found the boss fight to be absolutely terrible. Telling people to get good from that boss fight and combat system makes the entire pro-XV fanbase look like absolute fucking tools.




Condescending, is the right word. And people are going to be condescending when you just tell people to "git gud".

Honestly, I find your weird defense for your friends and XV's defenders pathetic tirades on others "gitting gud" to be equally as comical. You expect people to just sit there and allow that to happen?

Lighten up Francis.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

I think it looks cool, but I'm done with consoles, so if it should ever come to PC, I'll get it there. SE games tend to have a 6 month grace period, then are on Steam.

 

[YankeeDonB]

Nah. If it turns out that what we haven't seen is good, then lots of people will believe it. But there's no reason that we can't judge what we've already seen.

Maybe, but it's easy for me to imagine that lots of people will remain extremely skeptical until they see it for themselves, regardless of what reviews say, and will cling to their preconceived notions. Bias works in both directions, after all.

But yeah, certainly fair to judge what you've seen for what it is.

Personally, I've found the cutscenes they've shown OK for voice acting, but weirdly stilted for conversational flow.

On the positive side, I really like the incidental character interactions they're filling the game w/, go a long way for me to naturally flesh out character dynamics.

 

[MogCakes]

The git gud shit is dumb

You probably mean Balls.

 

[YankeeDonB]

My impression from most people talking about the depth of the iron giant fight is not that they're deriding the skills of people who didn't like it, but rather that they're trying to point out that there IS depth to the combat in the demo, and moves can be strung together in interesting and dynamic ways.

Lots of people know that and still don't like it, which is fine.

But it seems lots of people when they first encounter it believe the combat is really just hold one button for attack, another for defend, and that's all you've got.

As noted, SE's fault for not putting in a tutorial as they did in Duscae.