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[Hot Coldman]

They should put Megaten characters in Smash.

SMT's Nintendo console presence is like Mortal Kombat's- they've always been there, but they've tended to focus more on other platforms. The problem is that none of the really popular SMT stuff has been on Nintendo, so unless P4 gets a 3DS port, the references would be... wanting.

I'd love to see MK characters turn up :lol

 

[SmithnCo]

Also, Jiggs isn't going anywhere. She's an OG. Hell, Mewtwo, Pichu, Roy, Young Link and Doc shouldn't have been removed for Brawl. Yes, even Doc (alt costume ffs).

You could make a good case for removing Young Link because Toon Link is pretty much the same idea but with a different art style (considering they ended up not giving him a unique moveset), but yeah, I agree overall. And Jiggly was the original WTF character in the original, it would be a shame to remove her after three games.

For the next Smash, I mostly want to see Little Mac in the Wii Punch-Out style. TRACKSUIT AS AN ALT COSTUME. With Doc Louis as an assist, when he comes out he punches people or something and talks about chocolate bars.

 

[HK-47]

What, you don't think that the Demi-Fiend would be epic?

Cool, yes. Would it make a lick of sense? No. The Demi Fiend has only been in PS2 games.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

There's really no hope for competitive Smash with future games.

Just change the art style, my second most hated thing in Brawl was the ugly art style.

 

[MisterHero]

Also whoever says Blaziken is awesome is basically just because of the anime made it look that way, and while I agree that I like blaziken Mewtwo is infinitely better and more significant even when it comes to the Pokemon games.

I wasn't even watching the anime when R/S/E came out, Blaziken's moveset was just too competent compared to a lot of other types/type combinations. As far as Pokedex info, Blaziken is a very powerful running and kicking Pokemon. As a fighting Pokemon Blaziken would be a great antithesis of Mewtwo.

But the anime did contribute quite a lot, especially where Pokemon voices are concerned. I would have preferred Ash and his 3 Kanto starters rather than a generic Pokemon Trainer though.

I loved Mewtwo's animations in Melee. And while he was an antagonist of sorts in the anime, the Stadium games really cemented his position as an 'ultimate Pokemon'.

and what's this about Ryu? If Capcom's top fighter can't appear in a fighting game then the world might as well end.

Besides I think Hadoukens would be a lot more annoying in another fighter: the Tekken crossover.

 

[Cranzor]

Smash needs some more representation from Animal Crossing. Tom Nook is one of the characters I would like to see the most. He is probably the most popular character in the games besides the playable character but it would be tough to put the playable character in since they can be so different. And honestly, who wouldn't want to beat up Tom Nook?

 

[Ezalc]

You could make a good case for removing Young Link because Toon Link is pretty much the same idea but with a different art style (considering they ended up not giving him a unique moveset), but yeah, I agree overall. And Jiggly was the original WTF character in the original, it would be a shame to remove her after three games.

Young Link's replacement is a good one. At least Toon Link has a potential moveset to use from windwaker, minish cap, 4 swords and etc.

Jiggs wasn't the original wtf character, IIRC it was Ness or maybe Falcon considering his moves were completely made up for Smash. She was added based on popularity in Japan from the anime, which for the time made sense.

I wasn't even watching the anime when R/S/E came out, Blaziken's moveset was just too competent compared to a lot of other types/type combinations. As far as Pokedex info, Blaziken is a very powerful running and kicking Pokemon. As a fighting Pokemon Blaziken would be a great antithesis of Mewtwo.

But the anime did contribute quite a lot, especially where Pokemon voices are concerned. I would have preferred Ash and his 3 Kanto starters rather than a generic Pokemon Trainer though.

I loved Mewtwo's animations in Melee. And while he was an antagonist of sorts in the anime, the Stadium games really cemented his position as an 'ultimate Pokemon'.

and what's this about Ryu? If Capcom's top fighter can't appear in a fighting game then the world might as well end.

Besides I think Hadoukens would be a lot more annoying in another fighter: the Tekken crossover.

Lucario is also a powerful fighting pokemon and look at what they did with him. He's pretty freaking slow and floaty in Brawl. I agree that Blaziken's voice in the anime was amazing though.

As for Pokemon trainer I think they should go with the idea somebody else had. In that they make the pokemon be from the 3rd, 4th, and 5th gens. In a way you may get Blaziken after all. I think the trainer's alt costumes could include characters from the anime/manga and as for the pokemon it'd be their shiny forms and any pokemon that could fit the model in this case, Infernape would be perfect if the fire type starter was the 3rd evo again. Totodile could alt Wotter, and I guess Grovyle for Snivy's evo or whatever.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

Oh for fuck's sake.

Oh right, Brawl is uber competitive and deep. No wonder it's at EVO every year! No wonder Brawl tourney finals videos are 1/10th of the excitement, mind games, and technical prowess that you would see in Melee tourneys. Honestly I'm impressed at what the Brawl community has scrapped together, but it's a far cry from Melee. Count me as one of those who once tried to get something out of Brawl.

 

[sn00zer]

Just change the art style, my second most hated thing in Brawl was the ugly art style.

I would avatar quote...but seriously? The artstyle in Brawl was fantastic.....overall much much more cohesive than original and melee. Somewhat grimy and textured allowed many different characters from totally different universes at least look like they could stand next to each other. ANd the stages are just gorgeous.....seriously wtf

EDIT: Also t'would be awesome if they added characters in ala skin swaps like Tekken and MK9...could easily put in Daisy, Raichu, Dr. Mario, tons of Samuses

 

[SmithnCo]

Smash needs some more representation from Animal Crossing. Tom Nook is one of the characters I would like to see the most. He is probably the most popular character in the games besides the playable character but it would be tough to put the playable character in since they can be so different. And honestly, who wouldn't want to beat up Tom Nook?

That could be interesting, he could use the tools for some moves, like the fishing rod as a long-range grab. Of course to unlock him you'd have to get a lot of coins in coin battle or something that involves money.

All of this pipe dreaming isn't good for me, just reminds me of the Dojo lol

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

You can't piece 2 and 2 together? He says Melee was made for the hardcore. And in the interview about Brawl, Sakurai and Iwata keep talking about the concept of gimping the series.

Iwata: Also, I think that fundamentally, we shouldn’t try and separate the casual gamers from the core gamers.

Both Sakurai and Iwata wanted the game toned down. Read between the lines and analyze how 'hardcore' and 'accessible' spell out Melee and Brawl, respectively. There is zero depth to Brawl's gameplay. It is a freaking flatline.

You're putting stuff in there that isn't there.

 

[Ezalc]

That could be interesting, he could use the tools for some moves, like the fishing rod as a long-range grab. Of course to unlock him you'd have to get a lot of coins in coin battle or something that involves money.

All of this pipe dreaming isn't good for me, just reminds me of the Dojo lol

Honestly at first I never wanted Tom Nook since he's a money grubbing dick. But after seeing so many fans clamor for him I understand why they'd want him added and that yes he could potentially make a good character. At least I'd be able to beat the crap out him though. That motherfucker hounded me for money for so long... it'd be time for payback, pun was intentional.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

You're putting stuff in there that isn't there.

The final products, and years of experience with each, have made me interpret those quotes the way that I have. How else do you interpret a more casual approach and the final product being a watered down Melee?

also:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=153322

 

[Anth0ny]

My favorite Sakurai quote:

Melee fans who played deep into the game without any problems might have trouble understanding this, but Melee was just too difficult.

If we want new people from this generation of gamers to come in, then we need it accessible, simple, and playable by anyone. You can't let yourself get preoccupied with nothing but gameplay and balance details.

He says this like people can't get smashed (no pun intended) in Brawl.

 

[NeonZ]

Oh right, Brawl is uber competitive and deep. No wonder it's at EVO every year!

And Melee was in EVO?

No wonder Brawl tourney finals videos are 1/10th of the excitement, mind games, and technical prowess that you would see in Melee tourneys. Honestly I'm impressed at what the Brawl community has scrapped together, but it's a far cry from Melee. Count me as one of those who once tried to get something out of Brawl.

Because only 1 and 10 exist without anything in between? That's basically what you're saying there.

Jiggs wasn't the original wtf character, IIRC it was Ness or maybe Falcon considering his moves were completely made up for Smash. She was added based on popularity in Japan from the anime, which for the time made sense.

Jiggs was supposed to be a joke character. She was supposed to be a bad character included as a joke. Even though she wasn't actually the weakest character, Sakurai has said that Jiggy in SSB was designed to be a joke, not a competitive character.

He tried to balance her better in Melee, making Pichu the underdog, even though yet again he failed to actually make him the weakest. (From the Melee Japanese site).

Source:

The original plan (or at least, one of the last “original plans”) for Melee had just 20 characters (not counting Sheik). At some point in development (probably in the later stages), someone felt the roster wasn’t big enough, so they decided to boost it by making several “model swap” characters – characters who mostly used the same animations as characters who were already established, but with different models and stats (which they had already done before with Luigi in the original). These are characters who we now call clones. They were:

-Dr. Mario (part of the reason he was chosen was because someone wanted to put his music in the game)
-Falco
-Ganondorf (Sakurai mentions that he was lucky to get in – if he hadn’t had such a similar body type to Captain Falcon, he wouldn’t have made it into Melee)
-Young Link (although he was just an “afterthought” character, Sakurai seems to consider the idea of having both an older and younger Link important)
-Pichu (Sakurai says that he wanted a character who was bad on purpose, which is why Pichu was brought in. He also says that he had considered Jigglypuff the joke character of the first game, but now Jigglypuff was seen as more of a serious character because of Pichu’s inclusion. Also of note – one fan suggests that Raichu should have been used for Pikachu’s model swap instead of Pichu. Sakurai says that Pichu did more to differentiate himself, and that he added more by being a joke character.)
-Roy (his game, the sixth Fire Emblem, came out a few months after Melee did. Sakurai makes note of this. Although there’s no real evidence supporting this, some people think that the higher-ups at Nintendo wanted Sakurai to include Roy as an advertisement for FE6.)

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/1225/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/0101/drmario.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/0101/falco.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/1218/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/0122/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/1211/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/0115/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/syukeiken/return586.html

 

[Ezalc]

I was thinking about Samus' alt costumes. She has a lot to choose from for her normal Varia suit. But for when she's ZSS I could only think of these:

I doubt that Nintendo would ever allow the whole Bikini thing lol, but I wouldn't be opposed to it. :3

 

[IchigoSharingan]

And Melee was in EVO?

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/12909

 

[EmCeeGramr]

My favorite thing about Brawl was how they somehow managed to nerf literally every character except for a handful of new ones.

 

[Professor Beef]

Gotta love the rope snake.

Not only that, but the Saturn Table riding, use of the Stick, and

Spoiler

the Dragon Needle pulling as a Smash Attack

.

Oh right, Brawl is uber competitive and deep. No wonder it's at EVO every year! No wonder Brawl tourney finals videos are 1/10th of the excitement, mind games, and technical prowess that you would see in Melee tourneys. Honestly I'm impressed at what the Brawl community has scrapped together, but it's a far cry from Melee. Count me as one of those who once tried to get something out of Brawl.

First off, Brawl did get a chance at EVO. It was because of the drama caused over the ruleset that EVO used (and that I personally liked, fyi) that made them remove it from their main lineup until the end of time. Since then, it's been relegated to a featured side-event, at best.

As for "one of those who tried to get something out of Brawl?" You would be in the minority, then. Brawl still has an amazing competitive scene that is larger than Melee's is and was. Christ, even the regular Melee players who used to hate on Brawl have stopped already. What's your excuse?

 

[MisterHero]

My favorite thing about Brawl was how they somehow managed to nerf literally every character except for a handful of new ones.

Sakurai has Kirby/Metaknight/King Dedede bias

believe

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Sakurai has Kirby/Metaknight/King Dedede bias

believe

and also snake (though that makes sense and jelly melee players want to nerf him)

 

[NeonZ]

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/12909

Yes, that's kind of my point. How many times was it there again?

 

[MisterHero]

and also snake (though that makes sense and jelly melee players want to nerf him)

and also Pit because he's Sakurai's pet project and wants everyone to think Pit's the coolest guy ever

 

[Codeblue]

I think they only way Sigurd would have a shot is if IS announced a remake of FE4. If IS releases a brand new FE game in time, his chances pretty much drop to 0.

I'd like to see Hector over Lyndis just because an axe would be more interesting than a sword. Sigurd would be my top pick for an FE rep though.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

I would avatar quote...but seriously? The artstyle in Brawl was fantastic.....overall much much more cohesive than original and melee. Somewhat grimy and textured allowed many different characters from totally different universes at least look like they could stand next to each other. ANd the stages are just gorgeous.....seriously wtf

EDIT: Also t'would be awesome if they added characters in ala skin swaps like Tekken and MK9...could easily put in Daisy, Raichu, Dr. Mario, tons of Samuses

While I do appreciate the fact that it helps the different characters fit in together I still think it's ugly to look at. I always think of Mario with a more cartoony look but in Brawl his denim overalls have too much detail I guess. I think looking at Mario in Brawl is a step in the direction towards this and I really don't want that.

Also I don't know what these skin swaps are since I don't play either of those games but Daisy is already an alt costume for Peach if you didn't already know.

 

[Stylo]

Not only that, but the Saturn Table riding, use of the Stick, and

Spoiler

the Dragon Needle pulling as a Smash Attack

.


First off, Brawl did get a chance at EVO. It was because of the drama caused over the ruleset that EVO used (and that I personally liked, fyi) that made them remove it from their main lineup until the end of time. Since then, it's been relegated to a featured side-event, at best.

As for "one of those who tried to get something out of Brawl?" You would be in the minority, then. Brawl still has an amazing competitive scene that is larger than Melee's is and was. Christ, even the regular Melee players who used to hate on Brawl have stopped already. What's your excuse?

Truth. Yes Melee spins circles around Brawl, but is it so hard for people to appreciate the game for what it is? That's like people still hating on Street Fighter 4 after the glorious 3rd Strike.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

Yes, that's kind of my point. How many times was it there again?

More times than Brawl, I can assure you.

Since Iwata wants to recapture the hardcore crowd, I hope the next Smash is developed accordingly.

 

[KevinCow]

I think they only way Sigurd would have a shot is if IS announced a remake of FE4. If IS releases a brand new FE game in time, his chances pretty much drop to 0.

I'd like to see Hector over Lyndis just because an axe would be more interesting than a sword. Sigurd would be my top pick for an FE rep though.

I'd like a Fire Emblem character who uses a spear. An axe, in practice, would really just act like a shorter, slower, more powerful sword. Basically Ike or Roy with less range. Whereas a spear is more about thrusts and whatnot, and would probably feel a whole lot different from either of the other two.

I don't know much about the series, though, so I'm not sure if there's a good character who'd fit the bill.

 

[NeonZ]

Also I don't know what these skin swaps are since I don't play either of those games but Daisy is already an alt costume for Peach if you didn't already know.

Basically, Tekken has a character called Kuma (a bear), but, if you choose his alternate costume, he becomes Panda, an entirely separate character, who is actually just a skin with some additions. The narrator recognizes the other character's name, they have their owns quotes, endings and such. Gameplay-wise, they're completely identical, and they're chosen as different skins. It'd be like if when you chose the Daisy or Blood Falcon costumes in Melee, the narrator actually recognized them and they had different voices and quotes, but otherwise were just skins.

Mortal Kombat 9 had 2 cyborg ninja characters who had their previous human forms as alternate costumes. These were basically very close clones though, even though the games present them as alternate costumes. There are some (very) minor stat and even animation changes between the two versions of those characters.

Since Iwata wants to recapture the hardcore crowd, I hope the next Smash is developed accordingly.

Brawl is still a hardcore game though. Its one player modes can be harder than any other Nintendo title from this gen sometimes.

"Fighting game hardcore crowd" is a niche of a niche. Moving actively against the Melee crowd was stupid however, specially because Sakurai did nothing to actually address the accessibility issues of Smash with his changes, mainly regarding the third jump mechanic. There should be an option to activate an auto third jump by pressing jump a third time, maybe even auto tracking to the platform. THAT would help casual players.

And, of course, it should be just an option, so it wouldn't get in the way of other people who didn't want to use that.

More times than Brawl, I can assure you.

Both were there as part of the main event only once.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

I feel like if they just added ledge grab distance for all characters and kept the tempo of Melee, Brawl would still be about as accessible without losing the competitiveness.

 

[Snakeyes]

To be honest, a new Smash game only needs three things to re-unite fans of every entry.

- An engine with a bit more gravity and speed than Brawl's but slower than Melee's

- More hitstun on attacks to revive the combo game

- Low lag on all aerials. Helps with combos while removing the need to L-cancel.

 

[Triton55]

I'd like it if the next Smash had more of a comic style. More like the original's cartoony style than Brawl's semi-"epic" feel. If they could have some sort of comic-type shading and flair to the character designs it would go great with the cartoony effects that are already there.

 

[Stylo]

I'd like it if the next Smash had more of a comic style. More like the original's cartoony style than Brawl's semi-"epic" feel. If they could have some sort of comic-type shading and flair to the character designs it would go great with the cartoony effects that are already there.

I really disliked how dull colors were in Brawl compared to Melee. But I'l co-sign this. SSB4 in comic book style with appropriate sound effects (bowling pins <3) would be very cool.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

I feel like if they just added ledge grab distance for all characters and kept the tempo of Melee, Brawl would still be about as accessible without losing the competitiveness.

They actually did add a lot of ledge grab distance in Brawl. Like A LOT. It was also changed so that you can grab it if you aren't even facing the stage.

 

[Codeblue]

I'd like a Fire Emblem character who uses a spear. An axe, in practice, would really just act like a shorter, slower, more powerful sword. Basically Ike or Roy with less range. Whereas a spear is more about thrusts and whatnot, and would probably feel a whole lot different from either of the other two.

I don't know much about the series, though, so I'm not sure if there's a good character who'd fit the bill.

Ephraim fits the bill. He was an awesome lord, unfortunately his game wasnt the most popular. Personally I would prefer him to Lyn, Hector, or Eliwood.

 

[Professor Beef]

I feel like if they just added ledge grab distance for all characters and kept the tempo of Melee, Brawl would still be about as accessible without losing the competitiveness.

One thing that me and some of my friends thought would be a funny way to solve edgehogging would be if your character could grab onto the person on the edge. Even have the time it takes for them to auto-drop increase tenfold too.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

They actually did add a lot of ledge grab distance in Brawl. Like A LOT. It was also changed so that you can grab it if you aren't even facing the stage.

I know. That was one of the compromises to a casual crowd I really liked and felt made sense. The slower tempo, less hitsun and tripping were unnecessary, or rather ruined a lot of depth for the hardcore crowd. Ideally Smash is a series that should be able to be enjoyed equally by both and I feel jumping "issues" aside Melee did a better job of that.

 

[Anth0ny]

As for "one of those who tried to get something out of Brawl?" You would be in the minority, then. Brawl still has an amazing competitive scene that is larger than Melee's is and was.

Factually incorrect. Melee's largest tournament ever was last year.... Larger than any Brawl tournament.

 

[kirblar]

I feel like if they just added ledge grab distance for all characters and kept the tempo of Melee, Brawl would still be about as accessible without losing the competitiveness.

I think the slowdown was a good thing, overall. Not for competitive play, but it made the game way easier for younger players to pick up and play, and felt more similar to SSB64.

 

[Azure J]

I really disliked how dull colors were in Brawl compared to Melee. But I'l co-sign this. SSB4 in comic book style with appropriate sound effects (bowling pins <3) would be very cool.

I'd kill for a Smash game that looked like the Mario Strikers charged look in motion. Not because of they hyper edginess, but because I'd love to see what the Smash team could do if they could go batshit insane with animations, expressions, and a style that emphasized them well.

Also, bring back the N64 announcer & crowd, they were hype. :lol

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Oh yeah bring back individual btt stages. I still don't get why they took them out in the first place.

 

[Snakeyes]

Also, bring back the N64 announcer & crowd, they were hype. :lol

A while back I had an idea about the crowd factor becoming more dynamic in a future SSB. For example, a player could get rewarded for landing a solid string of hits by crowd chants, which would boost his attacks for a short time. Alternatively, a player that runs away will get booed and have his attack power reduced, or better yet, his opponent's next attack will have double the knockback.

 

[Boss Doggie]

This thread gives me memories...

...memories involving wanting to shoot the posters with horrible opinions like "remove x character with GENO!" or forgetting Wolf exists but then replacing him with shit like Krystal.

It's like GameFAQs all over again!

 

[HK-47]

I'd like a Fire Emblem character who uses a spear. An axe, in practice, would really just act like a shorter, slower, more powerful sword. Basically Ike or Roy with less range. Whereas a spear is more about thrusts and whatnot, and would probably feel a whole lot different from either of the other two.

I don't know much about the series, though, so I'm not sure if there's a good character who'd fit the bill.

Ephraim uses a spear, but 8 is kinda a black sheep and he isnt really that popular.

 

[789shadow]

I've noticed GameInformer and IGN have both had stories about Brawl recently. Do you think there's any chance this is backdoor publicity for a Cafe Smash game to be revealed at e3?

A new Smash Bros. is an obvious game for Cafe, so yeah, maybe.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

The final products, and years of experience with each, have made me interpret those quotes the way that I have. How else do you interpret a more casual approach and the final product being a watered down Melee?

also:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=153322

Also we will argue that contests are settled with dominance in Melee between players of NEARLY EQUAL SKILL! In Brawl, win/loss ratios are much closer to the 50% mark unless it's between two players of vastly different skill levels.

Wow, what a load of garbage. I mean...... wow. First of all the statement isn't even fully formed. Players of NEARLY EQUAL skill have win/loss ratios that isn't close to 50% in Melee? So what skews the wins towards one player over another if it isn't skill, "dominance"? What in the world is "dominance" anyway? L-O-L! Smashboards.

 

[ant1532]

brawl was so garbage.

 

[PokéKong]

Ephraim uses a spear, but 8 is kinda a black sheep and he isnt really that popular.

A spear character would be at the top of my list, but the best we could probably hope for is a dagger or maybe even magic with Sothe or Micaiah, as Radiant Dawn is the freshest in people's minds.

Or hey.... dare I propose... a horse mounted character. The archetypical Jagen no less.

 

[Snakey]

In terms of the roster, the things I would like to see are:

- Mewtwo returning. (favorite legendary Pokemon, a classic).
- Roy returning (FE6 is one of my two favorite Fire Emblems)
- Ridley (perhaps the most important Nintendo character not yet playable in Smash Bros.)
- Little Mac (especially considering the resurrection of Punch-Out)
- Toad (there is so much that could be used for a possible moveset from Super Mario Bros. 2, Wario's Woods, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii).

Brawl pretty much added the rest of the notable Nintendo characters, which is why I think Sakurai or Nintendo might opt to have mostly "guests" as most of the newcomers for Smash 4.

 

[GamerSoul]

A spear character would be at the top of my list, but the best we could probably hope for is a dagger or maybe even magic with Sothe or Micaiah, as Radiant Dawn is the freshest in people's minds.

Or hey.... dare I propose... a horse mounted character. The archetypical Jagen no less.

This gives me an idea for an item. A horse you can mount would be an awesome item to add. hehe The heavier characters causes it to be slower or instantly die.