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[Snakey]

A very interesting idea for a possible Fire Emblem newcomer would be a character of the Master Knight class. A Master Knight can utilize all weapon types (swords, axes, lances, bows, staffs, and most types of magic). Unfortunately, there were only two characters in the entire series who were in this class. Lachesis and Leaf. Although Leaf was a non-lord unit in FE4 where he could promote to a Master Knight, in FE5, Leaf did become a lord, though he could not promote to Master Knight in that game.

Still, I think Sigurd's favoritism among Western Fire Emblem fans is overblown. He is not even popular among the Japanese fandom, with his son (Celice) getting double the amount of votes back in Sakurai's Melee poll. Marth is pretty much the most popular Japanese lord, and Fire Emblem: Monsho no Nazo still remains by far the most popular installment to the series in Japan.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I just realized we haven't had any Advance War characters yet despite (technically) being from as far back as the NES-era. It's been eons since I've played them and only the first more up-beat and colorful two, but it seemed like there's quite a bit of movelist-potential there and it was definitely one of Nintendo's better (sort of) new series in the last decade.

Also is there any way to play whatever game Sukapon's from besides emulation? Completely forgot he exist (hence my 'Punch-Out is Nintendo's only other fighting game series' comment) but at the same time he's Japan-only so I have no way of knowing where the support for him is coming from.

 

[Ezalc]

I'd like a Fire Emblem character who uses a spear. An axe, in practice, would really just act like a shorter, slower, more powerful sword. Basically Ike or Roy with less range. Whereas a spear is more about thrusts and whatnot, and would probably feel a whole lot different from either of the other two.

I don't know much about the series, though, so I'm not sure if there's a good character who'd fit the bill.

There are very few really significant characters who use a spear in FE. Most lords are sword users only, save for Micaiah, Sigurd, Ephraim and his sister whose name Idk, Hector, and I think Eliwood when he promotes not sure on him though.

Alright, Micaiah was an ass lord and she's just really boring, plus I personally hate her and her games are much better represented by Ike since it's more about him really. And for a magician role I suggested Vaati, which to me is a much better character that could round out the Zelda series nicely.

Sigurd has the option of being a horseback character, though I said already that it seems like this would be extremely awkward, since having his model plus the horse would mean that he'd have to be pretty tiny compared to the other fighters to get rid of the awkwardness of moving around with said horse. I had the idea that he could use the horse as a final smash of sorts, while his normal moves he would use more slashing attacks since Marth's moveset should be more focused on stabbing due to his weapon being a Falchion which is a stabbing sword not slashing. Sigurd however can also use Lances so I had another idea where he could switch between the two weapons a la Zelda/Sheik transform so that he could have more diversity.

I don't know about Ephraim or I think her name is Erika, I never played that one FE because honestly the monsters thing pissed me off and I remember trying the game out and I felt that it just looked ugly. So I don't care for him at all.

Yes Hector uses axes but I think that they could get creative with his moveset enough that he would be different from Ike's lumbering two handed sword moves and Marth's stabbing moves.

Still, I think Sigurd's favoritism among Western Fire Emblem fans is overblown. He is not even popular among the Japanese fandom, with his son (Celice) getting double the amount of votes back in Sakurai's Melee poll. Marth is pretty much the most popular Japanese lord, and Fire Emblem: Monsho no Nazo still remains by far the most popular installment to the series in Japan.

I seriously remember that Japan's supposed favorite lord (at that time anyways) was Sigurd with his game being regarded as the best FE in the series. Celice may have beaten him in the Melee polls, but in the Brawl Polls Celice is nowhere to be seen, where as Sigurd came in the top 20.

Also is there any way to play whatever game Sukapon's from besides emulation? Completely forgot he exist (hence my 'Punch-Out is Nintendo's only other fighting game series' comment) but at the same time he's Japan-only so I have no way of knowing where the support for him is coming from.

I believe that emulation is the only to play Joy Mech Fight, unless you go out of your way and buy the game and famicom. I think it's a famicom disk game too.

 

[NeonZ]

I seriously remember that Japan's supposed favorite lord (at that time anyways) was Sigurd with his game being regarded as the best FE in the series. Celice may have beaten him in the Melee polls, but in the Brawl Polls Celice is nowhere to be seen, where as Sigurd came in the top 20.

The results of the Brawl polls are unknown, aside from Sonic winning. They were never posted online. The "results" that you see posted around came from counting words mentioned in messages that were posted in the first Japanese Brawl site. They're not actual poll results.

I just realized we haven't had any Advance War characters yet despite (technically) being from as far back as the NES-era. It's been eons since I've played them and only the first more up-beat and colorful two, but it seemed like there's quite a bit of movelist-potential there and it was definitely one of Nintendo's better (sort of) new series in the last decade.

Good point about an Advance Wars character... If one makes it in, I hope they have several special attacks which work by summoning troops, rather than just attempting to make the character fight according to his visual design.

 

[EatChildren]

I want more of everything. More stages, more characters, more everything. I would be happy if they scrapped the shifft adventure/campaign/story/whatever mode entirely and spent that dev time on putting more content in than ever before.

Smash is the kind of game where I just want a stupid crazy amount of characters, stages, assist trophies, items, and tons of other stuff branching across Nintendo's old and new IPs. I want all the characters from all three games to return, and more characters on top of that. I want alternate costumes. I want assist trophies for the characters they couldnt get in.

I also would like third party characters to return. Keep Snake and Sonic, I like them there. Bring in Simon Belmont, Megaman, Viewtiful Joe and Travis Touchdown. Ryu too if Team Ninja want to represent. Obviously I'd prefer Nintendo characters to take priority, but I dont care about Smash being a Nintendo exclusive line-up. I loved the two extras in Brawl and would be happy for a few more. Characters like Viewtiful Joe and Megaman would be easy as hell to fit.

For me, Smash is nothing but a crazy party game. Im not interested in some cutscene riddled half-arsed adventure mode. I dont care about the campaign. What I want is raw content; characters, stages, items and more. The bigger the roster, the more choices, the happier I will be.

 

[PokéKong]

A very interesting idea for a possible Fire Emblem newcomer would be a character of the Master Knight class. A Master Knight can utilize all weapon types (swords, axes, lances, bows, staffs, and most types of magic).

If I remember, couldn't Generals use all three weapons too? But that would be like having another badass version of Dedede stomping around the stage, all of his moves doing incredible damage but having at least 3 seconds of delay behind each one.

Also, for having such a supposed Kirby bias, Brawl had an awfully unbalanced amount of Kirby content. We may have got two new characters, but all three of them shared one level which only relates to one of them really, if you don't count the one classic stage. I found it rather strange, and I dearly missed the Fountain of Dreams.
Maybe they were making up for the fact that Adventure mode was a whole new Kirby game.

 

[Anth0ny]

I want more of everything. More stages, more characters, more everything. I would be happy if they scrapped the shifft adventure/campaign/story/whatever mode entirely and spent that dev time on putting more content in than ever before.

Definitely. If they scrapped Adventure mode all together and just spent time on multiplayer, I'd be happy.

However, knowing Nintendo, they won't. They're stubborn like that. Which is why I say Melee style Adventure mode over Brawl style adventure mode. Takes less resources to make, and is more replayable in the end (simply because it's fun to play through mushroom kingdom and run on big blue, as opposed to the random, forgettable shit that was SSE).

Then again, Brawl was more of everything done wrong I think. How awesome was Melee's fully orchestrated soundtrack? I'd take less songs fully orchestrated/remixed over tons of songs simply ripped from the original games any day.

It's quality vs quantity. Melee was quality. Brawl was quantity. Smash 4 should be both.

 

[EatChildren]

Yeah, but I'm one of the few who liked Brawl more than Melee . Tripping and all that shit didn't bother me. It had a bigger roster, and that was all it needed for me. I'm cheap with Smash Bros. like that.

If they're not going to scrap the adventure mode I hope they try and weave the franchises together better. For all their intentions with Brawl's adventure, I really think they dropped the ball on potential. The best moments where always when characters mixing universe, like fighting Ridley atop Capt. Falcon's space ship. There was way too much extra non-Nintendo/IP related crap bogging it up.

If they focused more on blending the franchises together I'd probably enjoy it more. That and just make it...not shit.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Also, for having such a supposed Kirby bias, Brawl had an awfully unbalanced amount of Kirby content. We may have got two new characters, but all three of them shared one level which only relates to one of them really, if you don't count the one classic stage. I found it rather strange, and I dearly missed the Fountain of Dreams.
Maybe they were making up for the fact that Adventure mode was a whole new Kirby game.

While I felt the roster choices were overall much more varied and logical then Melee's, I can agree that franchise representation felt very off. Mother gets two new reps but only one (very spoilerific) stage and essenstially no trophies, for Wario they seemed to pretend everything outside the original Wario Ware didn't exist (despite Shake It coming out not long after), technically Mario has less reps then Zelda and Pokemon while the only stages in SSE relevant to a pre-existing game were from Kid Icarus and Kirby.

I'd argue the only franchise that got a balanced representation was Donkey Kong (besides no Assist Trophy; Rambi or Stanley the Bugman running around could've been neat); he got Diddy Kong (whom I felt was long overdue, but still they kept his style and moveset very close to the DKC and DK64 games despite Rare being long gone), his two stages referenced the old (DK Arcade) and new (Jungle Beat) while his Melee stage referenced the inbetween (DKC), his music was from all eras and they did a good choice choosing the most popular tracks like Stickerbush Symphony and K. Rool's theme (weird there was no Aquatic Ambience though) and the little call-back to DKC they had in the DK/Diddy SSE level was a nice touch most other franchises didn't seem to properly get.

Even with Mario it seemed like they were pulling far too much from New Super Mario Bros. and Sunshine, or with Zelda too much from Twilight Princess and Wind Waker despite there being tons of history before all that (and no Zelda boss yet two bosses from Mother).

 

[djtiesto]

I can't believe that there's so few people (well apart from my man Azure) who have totally forgotten the existence of Mike Jones... probably my #1 want in terms of character roster. Yet we have name dropping of all these obscure characters I've never heard of (had to look up Barbara the Bat for instance, and some of the FE references)...

Really want to see some more stuff from the early NES library in the next Smash - Wrecking Crew, Balloon Fight, and Mach Rider references!

 

[mt1200]

No more floating gravity please.

 

[Azure J]

A while back I had an idea about the crowd factor becoming more dynamic in a future SSB. For example, a player could get rewarded for landing a solid string of hits by crowd chants, which would boost his attacks for a short time. Alternatively, a player that runs away will get booed and have his attack power reduced, or better yet, his opponent's next attack will have double the knockback.

I thought of something similar except as a basis for getting Final Smashes viable for all level or setting play, but I love this idea more.

 

[Stylo]

Yeah, but I'm one of the few who liked Brawl more than Melee . Tripping and all that shit didn't bother me. It had a bigger roster, and that was all it needed for me. I'm cheap with Smash Bros. like that.

If they're not going to scrap the adventure mode I hope they try and weave the franchises together better. For all their intentions with Brawl's adventure, I really think they dropped the ball on potential. The best moments where always when characters mixing universe, like fighting Ridley atop Capt. Falcon's space ship. There was way too much extra non-Nintendo/IP related crap bogging it up.

If they focused more on blending the franchises together I'd probably enjoy it more. That and just make it...not shit.

Brawl had a much better cast sure. But it sucked everywhere else. Melee's single player was almost as fun as it's multiplayer. Awesome Event mode, race to the finish, unique target test for everyone, Bonus points (as inconsequential they were), the credits mini-game.

Unlocking characters was actually fun. The adventure mode in that game is insanely replayable as well compared to the unfocused SSE. I really like the speed and physics of Melee because it makes it more challenging to get back on the stage which is part of the fun of Smash.

 

[Bentendo]

- Toad (there is so much that could be used for a possible moveset from Super Mario Bros. 2, Wario's Woods, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii).

Not only that but his mere inclusion in NSMBW as a playable character brought him into the attention of millions of players. I'm personally not a fan of the character but I'd be surprised if they didn't elevate his status to playable in the next game due to his newfound popularity.

 

[Green Mamba]

I can't believe that there's so few people (well apart from my man Azure) who have totally forgotten the existence of Mike Jones... probably my #1 want in terms of character roster. Yet we have name dropping of all these obscure characters I've never heard of (had to look up Barbara the Bat for instance, and some of the FE references)...

Really want to see some more stuff from the early NES library in the next Smash - Wrecking Crew, Balloon Fight, and Mach Rider references!

I don't see Mike Jones ever being a playable character for one simple fact--Star Tropics was never released in Japan.

 

[Anth0ny]

Brawl had a much better cast sure. But it sucked everywhere else. Melee's single player was almost as fun as it's multiplayer. Awesome Event mode, race to the finish, unique target test for everyone, Bonus points (as inconsequential they were), the credits mini-game.

Unlocking characters was actually fun. The adventure mode in that game is insanely replayable as well compared to the unfocused SSE. I really like the speed and physics of Melee because it makes it more challenging to get back on the stage which is part of the fun of Smash.

don't get me started on Barwl's event mode

DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[MisterAnderson]

I kind of hope not. Would get me hyped, but then they'd probably make tripping happen more often. And while they're at it they'd probably make turning off items not an option. And smash meters always full. Add add a random chance for your character to suddenly just die.

 

[Hot Coldman]

don't get me started on Barwl's event mode

DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

The literal fucking worst. God damn so bad.

 

[PokéKong]

don't get me started on Barwl's event mode

DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Well with all the modes going on and the Challenges, it almost felt redundant, I'm sure it was an afterthought. But I'd be real cool with just getting rid of it all together if they upgraded the whole Challenges board to something closer to Kirby Air Ride's Checklist:

 

[Ezalc]

I can't believe that there's so few people (well apart from my man Azure) who have totally forgotten the existence of Mike Jones... probably my #1 want in terms of character roster. Yet we have name dropping of all these obscure characters I've never heard of (had to look up Barbara the Bat for instance, and some of the FE references)...

Really want to see some more stuff from the early NES library in the next Smash - Wrecking Crew, Balloon Fight, and Mach Rider references!

I also think that Mike Jones should be included, at the very least as an assist trophy. However to whoever said Barbara the Bat, I completely disagree. So many better franchises to use, I think she should stay as an assist trophy unless she becomes a DLC character later down the road.

Not only that but his mere inclusion in NSMBW as a playable character brought him into the attention of millions of players. I'm personally not a fan of the character but I'd be surprised if they didn't elevate his status to playable in the next game due to his newfound popularity.

As for Toad, I really can't agree. Toad is pretty boring in terms of honestly, imo, everything. To me people who want Toad as a PC are basically asking for a Goomba to be one as well. They're both extremely generic and boring. The only reason Toad was playable in NSMBW was because Nintendo got lazy. I can't see him as a fighter at all, at most a mario kart assist trophy. I still say the only other Mario series reps needed are Geno for the RPG side and Bowser Jr, who could have like a bunch of alt costumes of the other koopa kids.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

don't get me started on Barwl's event mode

DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I spent a great deal of time on Melee's event mode, mostly because a lot of the challenges were pretty tricky and fun to replay because of the original scenarios in them. I never really thought about Brawl's much, I just remember breezing through them and not looking back. Character wise Brawl was indeed better. Loved Pokemon Trainer but it's a shame that's one of the weaker characters. The switching mechanic really hurts him.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I still say the only other Mario series reps needed are Geno for the RPG side and Bowser Jr, who could have like a bunch of alt costumes of the other koopa kids.

That's the only way I'll be happy about Bowser Jr. as a playable character. And the alt costumes change his taunts, some of his animations and voice clips so I can go right on ahead ignoring his existence.

 

[Azure J]

Toad has everything necessary to play "high speed grappler" role in the cast and make it work. Plus it'd be damn funny watching him side B into someone's face roll then run around (even faster) with them holding them up. Playing keepaway with a whole player character? Yes please. :lol

I don't see Mike Jones ever being a playable character for one simple fact--Star Tropics was never released in Japan.

See this sucks. If this train of thought decides things, then Marth & all the FE guys shouldn't have made Melee or had any presence in Brawl, same with Lucas.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

See this sucks. If this train of thought decides things, then Marth & all the FE guys shouldn't have made Melee or had any presence in Brawl, same with Lucas.

I think that for a game that's developed in Japan, a character with no games released in Japan is going to be less likely than a character who has no games released outside of Japan.

 

[Azure J]

I think that for a game that's developed in Japan, a character with no games released in Japan is going to be less likely than a character who has no games released outside of Japan.

True, but I always thought it would be a nice touch if after introducing the west to so many characters never seen before, the tables were turned and we had a counter pick for the big obscure characters of the east.

 

[NeonZ]

don't get me started on Barwl's event mode

Huh? What? Each challenge had multiple variations and there was even a co-op mode. Then, again, I guess you're basically biased against anything from Brawl...

I mean, I'm sorry, but Melee's adventure mode was replayable? Even with a Nintendo theme, playing TWENTY FOUR times through the same mindless stages without challenge wasn't good game design. Even before you're completely finished with it, there's no replay factor left. When Melee was released, the entire Adventure mode aspect was really criticized as a slower and pointless Classic Mode.

However, because Brawl did something different (although, truthfully, with its own problems) Melee's adventure mode is supposed to be something good now? Thankfully, Nintendo certainly won't take a step back and remove the features added by Brawl in the next game. Sakurai's inclusion of SSE basically means that even if someone else takes over the series, they'll have to create something to match it.

 

[The Xtortionist]

K. Rool needs to be in. Down+B would cycle between his King, Kaptain, and Baron personas similar to Pokemon Trainer.

 

[Rokam]

Wasn't quite sure where to post this, but is there an ETA on the price drop for this? I noticed that 4 of the 5 games listed for Nintendo Select are already out..

 

[NeonZ]

Wasn't quite sure where to post this, but is there an ETA on the price drop for this? I noticed that 4 of the 5 games listed for Nintendo Select are already out..

Nothing has been officially announced. Brawl still seems to sell monthly, although not on the level of Mario Kart, so Nintendo might take a bit longer to drop its price.

 

[Stylo]

Huh? What? Each challenge had multiple variations and there was even a co-op mode. Then, again, I guess you're basically biased against anything from Brawl...

I mean, I'm sorry, but Melee's adventure mode was replayable? Even with a Nintendo theme, playing TWENTY FOUR times through the same mindless stages without challenge wasn't good game design. Even before you're completely finished with it, there's no replay factor left. When Melee was released, the entire Adventure mode aspect was really criticized as a slower and pointless Classic Mode.

However, because Brawl did something different (although, truthfully, with its own problems) Melee's adventure mode is supposed to be something good now? Thankfully, Nintendo certainly won't take a step back and remove the features added by Brawl in the next game. Sakurai's inclusion of SSE basically means that even if someone else takes over the series, they'll have to create something to match it.

SSE was unbelievably boring mess compared to Adventure Mode in Melee. The event matches in Brawl were not creative in the slightest.

 

[Professor Beef]

K. Rool needs to be in. Down+B would cycle between his King, Kaptain, and Baron personas similar to Pokemon Trainer.

Before PT was even announced, I was dead certain that Deoxys would be announced and would do the exact same thing.

 

[PokéKong]

However, because Brawl did something different (although, truthfully, with its own problems) Melee's adventure mode is supposed to be something good now? Thankfully, Nintendo certainly won't take a step back and remove the features added by Brawl in the next game. Sakurai's inclusion of SSE basically means that even if someone else takes over the series, they'll have to create something to match it.

This is truth.
Neither Adventure mode was perfect, but playing through Melee's as each character was indeed an absolute chore

K. Rool needs to be in. Down+B would cycle between his King, Kaptain, and Baron personas similar to Pokemon Trainer.

Noooo more transforming characters! He can just integrate moves from all three games, and have different costumes for whichever one you prefer.

 

[Anth0ny]

Huh? What? Each challenge had multiple variations and there was even a co-op mode. Then, again, I guess you're basically biased against anything from Brawl...

I mean, I'm sorry, but Melee's adventure mode was replayable? Even with a Nintendo theme, playing TWENTY FOUR times through the same mindless stages without challenge wasn't good game design. Even before you're completely finished with it, there's no replay factor left. When Melee was released, the entire Adventure mode aspect was really criticized as a slower and pointless Classic Mode.

However, because Brawl did something different (although, truthfully, with its own problems) Melee's adventure mode is supposed to be something good now? Thankfully, Nintendo certainly won't take a step back and remove the features added by Brawl in the next game. Sakurai's inclusion of SSE basically means that even if someone else takes over the series, they'll have to create something to match it.

1. The Events sucked. Period. And there were less than in Melee. I can't remember a single Brawl event off the top of my head, except the BRUTAL final event, just because of how brutal it was.

The final event in Melee was fucking epic. GIGA BOWSER, Ganondorf and Mewtwo. Holy shit. What did Brawl give us? Sonic, Snake and uh...giant Mario? Are you serious?

2. Melee's adventure mode was replayable because it was short and sweet. I would never replay SSE simply because it's long and boring. This also brings us to the root of the argument: adventure mode in a game like Smash Bros shouldn't be long and elaborate. Melee's adventure wasn't a masterpiece, but it got the job done, because no one wanted a long, elaborate single player mode in freaking Smash Bros. It's clear the devs wasted their time on that horrible SSE when they could have been adding to the multiplayer.

I'd rather they have no adventure mode than an adventure mode that wastes everyone's time.

 

[NeonZ]

1. The Events sucked. Period. And there were less than in Melee.

Not if you add the co-op events. Besides, both games had a couple of standard matches and some standard matches with twists. Melee's did have a single stage which was taken from adventure mode and tweaked, but that was it.

The final event in Melee was fucking epic. GIGA BOWSER, Ganondorf and Mewtwo. Holy shit. What did Brawl give us? Sonic, Snake and uh...giant Mario? Are you serious?

Well, the villain match event was done earlier in Brawl. The Co-op final event was a match against everyone else.

2. Melee's adventure mode was replayable because it was short and sweet.

The problem that I see with that opinion is that it seems like you didn't even finish Melee's adventure mode. So, how was it "short and sweet"? It needed to be replayed 24 times to be "finished". There's nothing short about it. You obviously just dropped it at some point and didn't bother anymore.

Melee's adventure wasn't a masterpiece, but it got the job done, because no one wanted a long, elaborate single player mode in freaking Smash Bros. It's clear the devs wasted their time on that horrible SSE when they could have been adding to the multiplayer.

SSE was mostly outsourced. There are even (former?) members of the Sonic team credited with level design there. The people handling those stages weren't the same people handling the rest of the game. The lack of shared assets (aside from stuff done very early in development, like Metaknight's ship) is an obvious proof of that.

 

[Anth0ny]

The problem that I see with that opinion is that it seems like you didn't even finish Melee's adventure mode. So, how was it "short and sweet"? It needed to be replayed 24 times to be "finished". There's nothing short about it. You obviously just dropped it and didn't bother anymore.

what?

 

[NeonZ]

what?

It was necessary to complete once with each character in order to get the Melee character trophies and an extra one. That's why people who tried to 'finish' Melee's single player complain about it.

If you just played through it a couple of times and forgot about it to focus on the multiplayer, there was no problem, I guess, but it just didn't work at all as the longest single player mode of the game.

 

[Anth0ny]

It was necessary to complete once with each character in order to get the Melee character trophies and an extra one. That's why people who tried to 'finish' Melee's single player complain about it.

Right. Trophies are kinda cool, but they're really useless. No one was forcing you to play through adventure, classic or all star mode with every character unless you really wanted those useless trophies.

As opposed to being forced to play through the long-as-hell SSE to unlock characters, which are actually important.

If you just played through it a couple of times and forgot about it to focus on the multiplayer, there was no problem, I guess, but it just didn't work at all as the longest single player mode of the game.

Precisely. You just described 99% of Smash Bros players =P

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Not necessary at all unless you're really anal about collecting everything in the game. The same complaint could be made for Brawl where you have to play the game a long long time to get all the cds to show up, inevitably missing some as they appear although I remember some lame way of farming them. Still if you want everything in Melee or Brawl expect to do a lot of repetitive stuff or long hour investments to get it and that's not really a diss either. I loved the trophies in both games as they felt them similar to Xbox achievements which is another reward system I love.

 

[NeonZ]

As opposed to being forced to play through the long-as-hell SSE to unlock characters, which are actually important.

You didn't need to play through SSE to unlock characters either though. They were unlockable through SSE, but every character had one or two ways to be unlocked without the player ever touching that mode.

No one was forcing you to play through adventure, classic or all star mode with every character unless you really wanted those useless trophies.

Well, Melee was clearly designed to be played like that though. SSE gives no incentive to someone wanting to go through every stage in the game with every character.

 

[Ezalc]

Toad has everything necessary to play "high speed grappler" role in the cast and make it work. Plus it'd be damn funny watching him side B into someone's face roll then run around (even faster) with them holding them up. Playing keepaway with a whole player character? Yes please. :lol

You want a grappler character in the next smash? Really? I'm sorry but this is a pretty bad idea. I mean how would a grappling moveset even work with Brawl's mechanics. And Toad as a grappler? Have you seen how stubby that motherfucker is?

 

[Boss Doggie]

I can still see that there are many potentials for newcomers in Smash. Hell, NES/Famicom have so many to give.

 

[C2Q]

I just hope Ike stays in if it happens :3

 

[Jezan]

/dream mode

Since we are now dreaming ....if they add alternate skins for characters, they should add an alternate Samus playstyle, she should be as agile and fast as she is in Other M ith all those crazy acrobatics,but no ZSS for this one, only Slow Samus (the one we are used to in Smash Bros.) can transform into ZSS.

And the Pokemon trainer should also have different Pokemon, one team of starters for each generation.

/dream mode off

And I want Lyn!!! (please!)

 

[Fugu]

The problem that I see with that opinion is that it seems like you didn't even finish Melee's adventure mode. So, how was it "short and sweet"? It needed to be replayed 24 times to be "finished". There's nothing short about it. You obviously just dropped it at some point and didn't bother anymore.

This is strange for a few reasons.

One, I actually did do this and it didn't take very long. If it takes you more than, like, an hour to clear it each time you're probably not playing correctly. The challenge* comes from having to play as different characters. I'm not saying that Melee's Adventure mode was perfect, because it's not, but it's about as passable as a Smash single-player is going to get.

* - "Challenge" should be used sparingly in the context of a Smash game. Melee in particular was so deep in regards to how seriously you could take it that it would have been impossible to create a truly comprehensive, challenging single-player without leaving a good majority of the players in the dust. This is sort of less true of Brawl but not to a degree that makes this any less relevant from the perspective of a designer tasked with making the single-player of a fighting game.

Two, if you define clearing the game as doing that which gets you every available trophy, then Melee is an unbelievably long game. On top of having to do the three primary single-player components 24 times, you've got 51 event matches to do, some targeting, some home run contest, and some multi-man melee. After you do that, you have to play standard melee long enough to unlock all of the random-drop trophies. And then you have to get enough coins to unlock all of the trophies that only appear from the lottery, which would be a very time-consuming ordeal if you only play single-player. Also you'd better get shopping as some trophies require you to own other games.

Your argument seems to be that Melee would be a better game if Nintendo had not included trophies for clearing all-star, classic and adventure as indicated by this post:

Well, Melee was clearly designed to be played like that though. SSE gives no incentive to someone wanting to go through every stage in the game with every character.

Your basis for this seems to be outlined in the first sentence of this post where you claim that Melee was designed to be played as if you were intending to obtain every available trophy. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it was not, and if it was, they have seriously missed the mark. It is entirely unreasonable for most players to get all of the available trophies because it requires putting in a lot of time into the game and doing a lot of things that players normally wouldn't do (like play through the single-player campaign as Mr. Game and Watch). I have over 2000 hours on my Melee save and I don't have all of the trophies, and I've played this game in pretty much every possible style.

Personally I think that Melee's single-player was bordering on convoluted and that for the new Smash they should refine the single-player options such as by removing the rather redundant Classic and leaving only Adventure and All-Star, which both had merits (I am a particular fan of All-Star). Leave the difficulty option in and allow players to determine their own stock count. As for SSE, I think that the Smash series doesn't really benefit at all from a cohesive single-player and that SSE was both too long and too boring, although it suffers unduly by being wrapped around Brawl. I greatly prefer having a large variety of smaller options for single-player as it is more condusive to allowing players to create their own fun either by determining the challenge for themselves or simply by allowing them to focus on the parts of the single-player game that they like.

As a whole, though, I don't really care that much about the single-player game. I will spend most of my time playing SSB in multiplayer or in training. Or, if they decide to go the route of Brawl and determine that "party game" takes precedence over "fighting game" even when you absolutely don't want it to, I will just continue playing Melee and everything will be as usual.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

I'm all about seeing a new Smash Bros, so long as it is in the spirit of Melee rather than Brawl's blatant disregard and punishment of fans. Seriously? Still can't believe it years later. Let's take a game with a huge and fervent fan base.. then design it for *everyone else*, or at least to the point where we hinder and stunt particular ways of enjoying the game! Even better, let's talk about how we're going to disenfranchise at least a group of fans specifically! Most of the time this stuff is done behind closed doors, but to see Sakurai talk about it openly in discussion is an absolute no thanks.

I'd even be excited at the idea, just on the hope that it might become ultra awesome again, instead of just a "great" (don't get me wrong, Brawl still HAS massive production values and some great stage variety as well as new characters I welcome) Nintendo game.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

I've come to the realization that it is impossible to talk smash on GAF. It feels like the more informed I am about a game (Melee, Guild Wars, Fire Emblem, etc), the more difficult I find it to discuss on GAF. Maybe its because I form strong opinions on those games, so I view opinions other than my own in a bad light, but I can't help but notice the multiple factual inaccuracies in nearly every post. Its like the system and form of discussion deter informed opinions from chiming in.

On the bright side, its making me realize the worthlessness of my uninformed opinions, and thus I will make a more active effort to inform myself before opening my mouth...its jarring how much people will say about something they know so little about. Though, in terms of GAF, that also makes me wonder how inaccurate posts on games I am not familiar with are; maybe those threads are more inviting because I don't know any better. All this is making me want to retreat back into NBA-GAF as I always do lol

(this post was probably too deep for this type of topic haha)

 

[TreIII]

SSE was mostly outsourced. There are even (former?) members of the Sonic team credited with level design there. The people handling those stages weren't the same people handling the rest of the game. The lack of shared assets (aside from stuff done very early in development, like Metaknight's ship) is an obvious proof of that.

And it shows.

I mean, the thing I loved about Adventure Mode was that it really felt like you were a Nintendo character going on a tour de force: "visiting" these other worlds, going through its obstacles and kicking their denizens' asses. It really did a lot to play up to what these games are all about. SSE Mode didn't do this, and so that's why I ended up doing a lot to hate it.

If they really want to do a "story" based thing next time around, I'd probably be happier with something like SC3's "Tales of Souls" mode (with still no voice acting), with MILD platforming bits, like in Adventure Mode. But in short, I really could go without seeing SSE mode, or anything similar, again.

 

[KevinCow]

I hope Smash 4 has a transforming character that actively encourages the player to make use of all forms. Zelda/Sheik, Samus/ZSS? Anybody who plays these characters chooses one form and sticks with it. Pokemon Trainer was an attempt at a balanced transforming character, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually play as him.

So I guess basically make Zelda/Sheik transform faster, make Pokemon Trainer switch faster and also just generally a better character, and make Samus and ZSS separate characters.


I also had an idea I thought was interesting for Jill from Drill Dozer, where she'd be able to eject from her Dozer as a last ditch recovery move. Then she'd be an intentionally weaker character (unlike other multi-form characters, where the general idea is to make the different forms pretty balanced, even if they've never really accomplished this), but at least have a chance to fight back.

I mean the character will never get into the game, and they definitely wouldn't make two move sets for her if she did. But I thought it was a neat idea.

 

[TreIII]

I hope Smash 4 has a transforming character that actively encourages the player to make use of all forms. Zelda/Sheik, Samus/ZSS? Anybody who plays these characters chooses one form and sticks with it. Pokemon Trainer was an attempt at a balanced transforming character, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually play as him.

So I guess basically make Zelda/Sheik transform faster, make Pokemon Trainer switch faster and also just generally a better character, and make Samus and ZSS separate characters.

I think what would go a long way towards would be to have a faster/more efficient means of loading. Back in Melee, switching between Zelda and Sheik was a much more viable means, because you didn't have to wait 5 or so seconds for the game to finish loading between characters. By Brawl, it basically did more to force your hand with the added load-times, and you might as well stick with one character.

In any case, I'd be all for a character that at least has the kind of style-switching mechanic and the encouragement to use both styles, like Gen (Street Fighter) does.

 

[Professor Beef]

You want a grappler character in the next smash? Really? I'm sorry but this is a pretty bad idea. I mean how would a grappling moveset even work with Brawl's mechanics. And Toad as a grappler? Have you seen how stubby that motherfucker is?

Bowser, Ganondorf and Lucario have grabs with their side-B attacks. You could basically make a character that has all of their B moves grabs (with up-B being an anti-air/recovery move), and ta-da: a grappler.