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[Bryank75]

Alex criticises Halo infinite and talks about why it looked so flat in terms of lighting. He also mentions other technical flaws like pop-up etc. It's hardly the stirring defence of the game that people like to pretend it is. If he's an Xbox shill then he's doing a very poor job.

For some here reasoned criticism isn't enough, If it isn't a red-faced, spittle-flying rant then it's actually, magically, praise.

It's perverse.

I mean...lighting is something that people can say 'easily correctable' .... not so easy when character geometry, shaders, textures, particles and animations all look very bad....

It's not a quick fix.

 

[JordoftheDead]

As a multi plat owner I dont get the critisicm. They champion Sony exclusives while acknowledging that the extra One X horsepower generally gives them the edge in multiplats (although they have critised Xbox for black crush on some titles).

Both of the above align with my views owning both consoles, One X is my go to for multiplats with generally higher resolution and more stable framerate (with fark all wow exclusives), and Sony for the big impressive first party tent-pole releases.

I don't have an issue with DF at all. The only real fawning they do over XBOX historically is the One X back compatibale upgrades, which deserve it to be fair as it is a really impressive implementation of tech.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Alex criticises Halo infinite and talks about why it looked so flat in terms of lighting. He also mentions other technical flaws like pop-up etc. It's hardly the stirring defence of the game that people like to pretend it is. If he's an Xbox shill then he's doing a very poor job.

For some here reasoned criticism isn't enough, If it isn't a red-faced, spittle-flying rant then it's actually, magically, praise.

It's perverse.

Distorting the arguments you're reacting to does you no more favors than anyone distorting DF's arguments, NX Gamer isn't giving a red-faced, spittle-flying rant when he finds more to critique about Halo Infinite than DF does. And while they do eventually critique Halo Infinite during the video things are attempted to be excused because of things like 60 FPS (to which John replies IT DOESN'T MATTER! and he's right!).

 

[Reindeer]

I mean...lighting is something that people can say 'easily correctable' .... not so easy when character geometry, shaders, textures, particles and animations all look very bad....

It's not a quick fix.

I thought animations were pretty good and textures were generally (bar a couple of bad ones) what you'd expect from current gen open world or semi open world games. It was a poor showing for next gen though.

 

[Saber]

I aways enjoy DF videos, mainly the ones with John. DF Retro is one my favorite contents by him.

I don't give a damn about silly console wars. I just want to watch some good entertaiment from them.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I thought animations were pretty good and textures were generally (bar a couple of bad ones) what you'd expect from current gen open world or semi open world game.

Isn't that the problem? The game is meant to be a flagship title for Series X, not current gen. Since it's running on a PC that's meant to represent Series X performance we don't even know what the current gen version will actually look like.

 

[Kazza]

Its dumb console war bullshit. Lol some assholes scared him off this forum way to go dickheads. You really know you fucked up when he can post on Era and gets chased off here

That really stings, because it's 100% true.

 

[Bodomism]

Digital Foundry - The best in the industry and only stating fact, even before this they didn't buy the BS 13.8TF of PS5 like other shills Journalists like Jason and the gang.

 

[CatLady]

Isn't the GitHub leak where all the FUD about PS5 being a 9 TFlop system come from? Because that's not been proven true and is still a bannable offense until someone can prove it.

At that time it was clocked at 2 ghz and was in fact 9.2flops. In the end they up the clock to 2.23 to get it to the current 10.2 variable.

"If someone legitimately ran him off the board I hope he's doing okay."

Yes the unhinged Sony fan in the Next gen thread absolutely ran John off with a rant as bad as that twitter post and he hasn't been back since. He's probably doing a lot better than he would be if he still posted here considering the constant hate and bile DF gets from Sony fans on GAF.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Aha, and that is related to what I said...?

If there are more people who own PS consoles, there will be more fanboys... it can't be this hard to link that with what you said.

Rise? After all this years barely anyone watches his videos. This is not a swipe at him, but let's not act like he had some sort of a rise in popularity or something.

Compared to where he was before, I think he showed them you could gain a lot of popularity by adding voice to your videos... and he put pressure on them with his videos as he was pointing out things they missed for whatever reason.

I'll be generous and assume that kretos is just being funny here, but the mods really need to have a plan in place for when the next gen comparison videos start dropping later this year. If every DF thread devolves into "they are only saying that because they are paid shills of MS", then those threads are simply going to become unreadable. If you are going to make that kind of accusation, then surely you need evidence to back it up, otherwise the ban hammer needs to fall. What say you, @Mod of War ?

Isn't there a rule against backseat policing of the forum?

 

[Bryank75]

I thought animations were pretty good and textures were generally (bar a couple of bad ones) what you'd expect from current gen open world or semi open world game. It was a poor showing for next gen though.

Look at the close up of the.... enemy leader (Brute) .... his teeth look like plastic and have no lines or detail to them, the skin looks like a bad rubber mask and the hair is just like 2d strips.

Put it against anything with good production value on current gen and it's just very very underwhelming.

 

[JordoftheDead]

DF was the best of the best when the Playstation hardware was more powerful that Xbox and their reviews were favorable to Sony hardware. When the thing turned in favor of Xbox, since One X, they became biased and evil people.

I think you're on the mark. I don't get corporate cheerleading mentality at all, it's the definition of first world problems.

 

[Entroyp]

They're great at creating quality content. I don't regard them as very knowledgeable but their entertaining value is unmatched in what they do.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

That really stings, because it's 100% true.

People get banned from here BECAUSE they're total Era-tards, not that posting on Era gets you a ban but the kind of ridiculous conduct they approve of there isn't approved of here.

 

[Vawn]

They show that one console is more powerful than another, triggering fanboys.
They show that one GPU manufacturer produces faster gaming GPUs than another, triggering fanboys.
They show that one CPU manufacturer produces faster gaming CPUs than another, triggering fanboys.

They showed that with Halo Infinite game play? Seriously?

 

[Kazza]

Is anyone else hoping and praying that the PS5 Pro is going to be an absolute beast that will blow whatever MS is offering out of the water, just so that we only have to put up with this shit for half a generation, instead of the entire gen?

 

[Bryank75]

Is anyone else hoping and praying that the PS5 Pro is going to be an absolute beast that will blow whatever MS is offering out of the water, just so that we only have to put up with this shit for half a generation, instead of the entire gen?

Xbox's last two shows illustrated we have nothing to fear....

 

[Reindeer]

Isn't that the problem? The game is meant to be a flagship title for Series X, not current gen. Since it's running on a PC that's meant to represent Series X performance we don't even know what the current gen version will actually look like.

Obviously the game doesn't scale well and that might be the problem. They didn't even have a code running on Series X, which probably means development has been troubled.

 

[Kazza]

VFXVeteran immediately after making this thread:

 

[ZehDon]

The simple fact is they're clearly biased against [console you like whose games look and/or run worse] in every video, while it's clear that [console you like whose games look and/or run worse] is the superior choice for real gamers. I'm tired of their shilling for [console manufacturer whose games they've shit on at some point] when [other console manufacturer whose games they've shit on at some point] is clearly offering the superior product. It's black and white, clear as day. How anyone can trust their "BrEaKdOwNs" is laughable. I prefer [random ass YouTuber who zooms in on videos for barebones commentary and fuck all else] for their in-depth and thoughtful analysis that's ten times what these clowns put out.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Is anyone else hoping and praying that the PS5 Pro is going to be an absolute beast that will blow whatever MS is offering out of the water, just so that we only have to put up with this shit for half a generation, instead of the entire gen?

I think it should all be case by case. Unless we consider DF infallible every breakdown they do is subject to critique and if someone thinks they see bias in any of the shortcomings that's their right to believe that and try to argue it. The thing is, what that person argues is just as subject to scrutiny, we solve speech we don't like with more speech, with reasoned arguments and if reasoned arguments can't sway someone, if they're just a troll who wants to watch the world burn the mods step in and do their job.

 

[Kazza]

Xbox's last two shows illustrated we have nothing to fear....

Then why all the butthurt over Digital Foundry videos?

 

[AllBizness]

They show that one console is more powerful than another, triggering fanboys.
They show that one GPU manufacturer produces faster gaming GPUs than another, triggering fanboys.
They show that one CPU manufacturer produces faster gaming CPUs than another, triggering fanboys.

Which CPU manufacturer do they cape for? I know they're bias for GPU is Nvidia.

 

[The Fartist]

VFXVeteran immediately after making this thread:

More like:

 

[Redlight]

Okay... first of all... watch the NX Gamer video.

Second of all... King Thrash had more to point out than they did, what did he point out that was actually wrong to point out? He doesn't word things as eloquently as others do, he has a personality and is funny, it's part of why people like him, he's a legitimate character. But I don't see how anything he said is "wrong".

I didn't say better, by the way, I said more in depth, more critical. I feel like those things are hard to dispute because both King Thrash and NX DO go into more details about it than DF do. The funny thing about NX's vid is he's doing the whole XBOX show so he actually doesn't say EVERYTHING WRONG WITH IT he sees because he said he might do a full video later for that. Like seriously, he didn't even devote all the time he had to it and he still had more to say than they did.

Also, nothing I said indicates anything about criticism for Sony not being allowed or how no criticism of XBOX is enough, the question I asked was pretty simple... why are smaller youtubers pointing out more problems than the TOP TIER PEOPLE? DF gets these critiques BECAUSE they're considered the best.

I'm not going to waste my time watching more linked videos, I made that mistake with King Trash. Obviously 'funny' is a very subjective thing.

The point at hand is whether DF is biased toward MS. There is no actual evidence of that, only fanboy perception. The videos you list can't add weight to your claim, you just prefer them because they are "more critical". That's not a surprise.

Finding videos that are 'more critical' does not make the DF criticism less valid or, indeed, biased. If I fInd a video that's even more critical than King Trash's does that turn him into a biased Xbox fanboy?

 

[Reindeer]

Look at the close up of the.... enemy leader (Brute) .... his teeth look like plastic and have no lines or detail to them, the skin looks like a bad rubber mask and the hair is just like 2d strips.

Put it against anything with good production value on current gen and it's just very very underwhelming.

Like I said, in couple of places it looked rough, like the last brute in the cutscene that you mentioned. That brute looked like he was taking straight from N64 and looked far worse than brutes during gameplay which is really strange.

 

[kretos]

I'll be generous and assume that kretos is just being funny here, but the mods really need to have a plan in place for when the next gen comparison videos start dropping later this year. If every DF thread devolves into "they are only saying that because they are paid shills of MS", then those threads are simply going to become unreadable. If you are going to make that kind of accusation, then surely you need evidence to back it up, otherwise the ban hammer needs to fall. What say you, @Mod of War ?

 

[Aion002]

360 was the best console to play 90+% of the games (multiplats ran better on it), so I'm not sure why you have a problem with them stating facts.

And you saying they downplayed PS4 advantage is false, that was the era when the 400% zoom was in its peak and they would even point out how many more blades of grass PS4 version had.

Well.... I am just saying that they change their words according to the console.... At least in the couple of videos that I watched from them last gen and in this one... I am not a big fan nor do I have the knowledge about those technical things, so can't make a fair comparison and, honestly, I don't care to do so, but... Well, the choice of their words always appeared, to me, really biased.

Which again, it is not an issue, they are free to do whatever they want, including making promo videos for Xbox:

 

[Evangelion Unit-01]

DF is rather objective and offers good analysis but people often want them to say "Sony/Microsoft bad" to affirm their pathetic console war.

 

[Bryank75]

Then why all the butthurt over Digital Foundry videos?

I'm not... I hardly watch them. I just found it funny how there is a huge disparity between what Alex at DF said about the Halo demo and what Cherno said about it....

Cherno actually has qualifications and experience working in the technical side of the industry and DF are just some journalists who are derided in almost every other case.

We need actual professionals with qualifications to do proper analysis, it would be best done in partnership with a university IMO.

 

[JordoftheDead]

Xbox's last two shows illustrated we have nothing to fear....

Until the third party title releases are analysied and start displaying a Series X advantage in terms of resolution and framerate and then it's because of MS moneyhats right?

I think that's how it works.

 

[Bryank75]

Until the third party title releases are analysied and start displaying a Series X advantage in terms of resolution and framerate and then it's because of MS moneyhats right?

I think that's how it works.

We will get to that, when we get to it.

 

[Archvile82]

The only member I'm not keen on is Tom, half the time he sounds pissed and rushes his words like he is dieing for a piss.

I like the other lot especially the retro videos.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

DF been sweet on MS ever since they got the X scoop and been beyond obvious after the XSX exclusive.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I'm not going to waste my time watching more linked videos, I made that mistake with King Trash. Obviously 'funny' is a very subjective thing.

The point at hand is whether DF is biased toward MS. There is no actual evidence of that, only fanboy perception. The videos you list can't add weight to your claim, you just prefer them because they are "more critical". That's not a surprise.

Finding videos that are 'more critical' does not make the DF criticism less valid or, indeed, biased. If I fInd a video that's even more critical than King Trash's does that turn him into a biased Xbox fanboy?

Yeah... humor is subjective.

Okay, so I actually did link a video on the first page that goes through the argument of whether or not they are biased, it's not just finding videos from other Youtubers that are more critical, it's highlighting moments where DF were more critical of a Sony exclusive than an MS exclusive. You can call these cherry picking, you can point out they're different games and should be analyzed differently... there's lots of arguments and I'd love to see a real argument from you, I already have from an actual member of DF, John, and I liked his argument. I just also think there's merit to the other argument. I don't actually know that I feel DF are biased, I just know the idea that there's zero evidence and only a fanboy would think so feels like a stretch.

I didn't say they were less valid or biased, I simply asked why the top tier people in the business had less to say than other Youtubers. I didn't come to a conclusion, I'm asking for what other people's conclusions are on this. My own conclusion is that it's GOOD there are multiple sources of tech analysis for us, because just like with game reviews we need multiple viewpoints to get the whole story, I feel.

 

[JordoftheDead]

The only member I'm not keen on is Tom, half the time he sounds pissed and rushes his words like he is dieing for a piss.

I like the other lot especially the retro videos.

Is that the one who can't pronounce his Rs?

 

[Reindeer]

Which again, it is not an issue, they are free to do whatever they want, including making promo videos for Xbox:

They got an exclusive look at new Xbox along with another YouTuber so obviously they would jump at that opportunity to promote their channel by showing Xbox. The fact that you think this type of exclusive is fanboyism is just laughable. You think they wouldn't do the same for Sony if Cerny gave them the hardware? Oh wait, here they are "promoting" PS5:



Such Xbox fanboys these guys are...

 

[Redlight]

I mean...lighting is something that people can say 'easily correctable' .... not so easy when character geometry, shaders, textures, particles and animations all look very bad....

It's not a quick fix.

Why are you implying that DF said that this would be a 'quick fix'? People might say that, you might say that, Alex from DF did not...

"...the dynamic lighting technology is core to 343's plans and it's hard to believe it would be scrapped or dramatically altered this close to launch."

What's actually going on with Halo Infinite's graphics?

Dynamic lighting is a big addition - but there are downsides

www.eurogamer.net

It's your bias that is on display, not Digital Foundry's.

 

[Bryank75]

Why are you implying that DF said that this would be a 'quick fix'? People might say that, you might say that, Alex from DF did not...

"...the dynamic lighting technology is core to 343's plans and it's hard to believe it would be scrapped or dramatically altered this close to launch."

What's actually going on with Halo Infinite's graphics?

Dynamic lighting is a big addition - but there are downsides

www.eurogamer.net

It's your bias that is on display, not Digital Foundry's.

He basically said that there was a ray tracing patch coming.... so it was implied.

 

[Kazza]

We need actual professionals with qualifications to do proper analysis,

Isn't VFXVeteran a vetted industry professional with qualifications, who often shares his (proper) analysis of games with GAF? Doesn't seem to help him much when it comes to dealing with the fanboys.

 

[yurqqa]

Crazy fans from both sides just want DF be crazy fans like them, while DF tries to stay objective (none of us is truly objective, but they are very good at trying).

So. They are great. It's just fans being fans.

 

[Craig of War]

Ain't nothing wrong with them their the most unbiased far as i can tell the people that think they are are just coming up with anything negative to say about the other console.

 

[Iced Arcade]

Start of the gen digital foundry was top tier elite to PS solider. Then the One X came out and it's been one of those messy breakups ever since.

 

[j0hnnix]

I have figured out this puzzle it was right in front of us the whole time. If you reverse, flip, read upside down and dissect each letter in digital foundry you get Xbox. Mind blown.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

They were a little heavy on the idea that it was lighting when there was so much more 'wrong and as said before and linked before, others have shown that... here's an example

 

[Arkam]

I am personally not a fan of the subculture their videos promote (caring more about performance details than having fun when playing games). But hey if they can make a few bucks off this trend, more power to them. There are so many YouTubers doing the same, so its definitely becoming a competitive landscape.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Isn't VFXVeteran a vetted industry professional with qualifications, who often shares his (proper) analysis of games with GAF? Doesn't seem to help him much when it comes to dealing with the fanboys.

VFXVeteran's credentials absolutely gives him insight many of us don't have, but it's important to note his credentials do not extend to the actual video game industry.

 

[Reindeer]

They were a little heavy on the idea that it was lighting when there was so much more 'wrong and as said before and linked before, others have shown that... here's an example

Talk about 800% zoom lol. Obviously those are not renderes properly at such distance , it happens in many current gen open world or semi open world games. Not excusing Infinite, it looks poor, but context is needed.

 

[Reindeer]

Isn't VFXVeteran a vetted industry professional with qualifications, who often shares his (proper) analysis of games with GAF? Doesn't seem to help him much when it comes to dealing with the fanboys.

He's also a hardcore PC guy as many can attest to. Quite poor from someone working in the industry to be fueling fanboy wars like this.

 

[Kazza]

A rat bastard would just quietly and slyly hit the report button (like the rat bastard(s) who got me a pathetic ban over a 9TF comment last month), not assume the best of the poster and then openly ask for a discussion about moderation.

Isn't there a rule against backseat policing of the forum?

Isn't there a rule against making baseless, console war-driven accusations? I would normally keep such things to the Ban Justice thread, but the OP is about the forum's relationship with Digital Foundry, so it seemed like an appropriate place for it.