Support NeoGAF

[HolyBaikal]

There's many nuances involved in actual, face to face talking. Nuances which we will never be able to perfectly replicate, and we won't even be close for many years.

I don't know about that... technology is pretty nice.

I think that someday we'll have virtual reality that feels totally like the real world. We'll be able to have all the facial expressions and things like that like we do in the real world. And we'll be able to feel all the physical and romantic intimacy stuff, too. Like kissing and stuff.

It isn't there now, but I think it will be someday. I think it will get nicer every year.
The consumer version of the Oculus Rift isn't out yet. So I don't think it will feel totally real. But technology is amazing and I think that it will feel totally real someday.
I think we'll be able to have all of the fun feelings and senses. We'll be able to taste and smell and touch and do everything. The Oculus Rift is just going to be the beginning and it's going to be so amazing.

 

[jem0208]

Is it naive to want change? Change can happen at any time, people just need to be willing to make it happen and not sit there and claim that anyone who wants to make change is naive. It could easily happen within our lifetimes. Even World Peace could be achieved in our lifetimes if enough people were willing to do something about it rather than just sitting there accepting the fact they're getting drafted into a war they shouldn't be fighting.

People need to be willing to make change. All change requires in our current system is for enough people to stand up and say no to the extreme inequal system we live in. So rather than sit there saying it's never going to happen and other people are naive for thinking it will, why not do something about it? Do you honestly believe that there is nothing humanity can do to break this chain of inequality?

It's not naive to want change, I think it's naive to believe it could work.


A completely equal society has been shown to be essentially impossible. Humans are inherently greedy, and all it takes is for one group to decide they deserve more and the entire system collapses. Read Animal Farm, it sounds great in theory, however when you look deeper, human nature destroys the idea.

 

[Cyber Caesar]

How long can a person interact with a virtual world before they start to make false assumptions about reality? This will be a big problem for future generations.

 

[Marcel]

Once again, you're sitting there and accepting what you see as an inevitability. Why not make the change and not stare at your phone if you don't want to, then get the people around you to do the same.

It's small changes like that, that add up and change things for everyone. If for example you were to get 10 people to change to energy efficient lightbulbs and they all did the same with another 10 people, sooner or later everyone who could would be using them. Change is like a chain reaction.

Looks like you've never participated in any actual activism. People would like to change, or perhaps be more enlightened on a topic, but most often laziness, stubbornness and fear get in the way. Look no further than what happened with the Scottish independence vote to see what fear and stubbornness can do.

And your recommendation also shows a lack of any real experience in public interaction. If you started bothering people about being on their phones in a public place, you would look like a crazy person.

 

[kiguel182]

Well... it's not the same... But it doesn't have to be.
It can be better.. for many people.

Why do other people need to be in the same room in the real world? If the virtual world feels just as real, can't that be just as fun? Even if it isn't real, the fun is real. And our friendships and love for each other would be real.

We are just never going to agree on this.

It isn't as real because it isn't real. It's a fake world and it pales when compared to the real thing. It just can't be emulated.

It saddens me that you would prefer to talk to someone over the internet than being with them physically. It's just so much better.

Even the people I do know online I would probably rather hang out with them in the real world and if I can't then I just need to find people to do it instead of relying in the "virtual world".

If the real world sucks it's best to try and make it better instead of replacing it with something that isn't half as good.

 

[Freeman]

The best software for VR would be one that tried to convince you that the other side is real.

 

[kyser73]

What happens when you've spent so long immersed in a VR environment that when something happens in the real world - illness, your own or a family member, or job loss, or your house burning down - you're completely incapable of coping because you've never faced a challenging situation in reality that you couldn't amend by changing software - you can't pull a Kobayashi Naru re-write of the scenario, or simply leave.

Leaving aside the body of research that indicates that there is a profound need in humans for actual physical interaction with each other on both a psychological and physical level, you have to question why you feel the need to withdraw in this way.

As a socialist I don't need to tell you that the reason people are mean is because the socioeconomic paradigm we live in - and indeed the human social structures in groups larger that 150 people that evolved as we became settled agrarians, which are primarily based on ownership and the power that conveys over others - but there's no point in building a libertarian communist (anarchist) paradise in a virtual environment for yourself and invited friends while the rest of mankind suffers.

'Philosophers interpret the world the point is to change it.'

You won't stop people starving from inside a helmet.

 

[kiguel182]

I am well aware of it. I'm merely arguing that wanting so isn't really an outrageous sentiment because it's basically what humanity wants and is going towards. (even if it's not what they need)


There would be a huge difference in opinions between people who like socializing directly, generally having good experience doing so and those who dislike it, generally having bad experience from it.

I'm not this great social being that always has a good time with people and that everyone loves. Far from it.

I've had trouble meeting people and fitting in. I've been a social outcast, and I've hanged around tons of people. I've experienced both sides of good communication and friendship.

Talking to people in real life is still great and people should make the effort to have friends and people in the real world instead of being in a fake version of it.

You can learn and improve how you socialize just like you can every skill. You just need to try and do it.

I'm far from perfect at it but I try to improve and even if I fail at it and end up alone in the future at least I tried.

 

[Marcel]

What happens when you've spent so long immersed in a VR environment that when something happens in the real world - illness, your own or a family member, or job loss, or your house burning down - you're completely incapable of coping because you've never faced a challenging situation in reality that you couldn't amend by changing software - you can't pull a Kobayashi Naru re-write of the scenario, or simply leave.

Leaving aside the body of research that indicates that there is a profound need in humans for actual physical interaction with each other on both a psychological and physical level, you have to question why you feel the need to withdraw in this way.

As a socialist I don't need to tell you that the reason people are mean is because the socioeconomic paradigm we live in - and indeed the human social structures in groups larger that 150 people that evolved as we became settled agrarians, which are primarily based on ownership and the power that conveys over others - but there's no point in building a libertarian communist (anarchist) paradise in a virtual environment for yourself and invited friends while the rest of mankind suffers.

'Philosophers interpret the world the point is to change it.'

You won't stop people starving from inside a helmet.

Well said. People advocating the retreat into a virtual world while the socioeconomic environments only get worse and worse for the general populace are inherently cowardly and selfish. Their voices would be better suited to helping others rather only helping themselves. People living a protected, sheltered life in a VR environment only helps those who benefit most from late-stage capitalism.

 

[Freeman]

What happens when you've spent so long immersed in a VR environment that when something happens in the real world - illness, your own or a family member, or job loss, or your house burning down - you're completely incapable of coping because you've never faced a challenging situation in reality that you couldn't amend by changing software - you can't pull a Kobayashi Naru re-write of the scenario, or simply leave.

Leaving aside the body of research that indicates that there is a profound need in humans for actual physical interaction with each other on both a psychological and physical level, you have to question why you feel the need to withdraw in this way.

As a socialist I don't need to tell you that the reason people are mean is because the socioeconomic paradigm we live in - and indeed the human social structures in groups larger that 150 people that evolved as we became settled agrarians, which are primarily based on ownership and the power that conveys over others - but there's no point in building a libertarian communist (anarchist) paradise in a virtual environment for yourself and invited friends while the rest of mankind suffers.

'Philosophers interpret the world the point is to change it.'

You won't stop people starving from inside a helmet.

All you need to do is play VR Dark Souls and you'll be prepared for what life will throw at you.

I don't get why VR needs to substitute everything and if it does end up substituting anything is probably because its better.

Well said. People advocating the retreat into a virtual world while the socioeconomic environments only get worse and worse for the general populace are inherently cowardly and selfish. Their voices would be better suited to helping others rather only helping themselves. People living a protected, sheltered life in a VR environment only helps those who benefit most from late-stage capitalism.

Capitalism always being the villain in a video game forum is absolutely hilarious.

A great way to use VR would be to place people in virtual worlds where they could enact their fantasies of changing the world without killing millions of people and leaving the rest of us alone.

Most people live in partially virtual worlds already.

Do you believe in a diety, his miracles and work on Earth, and you live by his commandments that, for all intents and purposes cannot be proven or objectively measured? Bam! You live in a virtual world.

Do you have a moral system? Strict ethics, a code of conduct an honor system? Do you believe in untangible laws like human rights? Bam! You live in a virtual world.

Do you believe in love? Karma? Destiny? Happy coincidences? Bam, etc.

You get my drift The only difference between those and video games in the totality of the vision: most partial virtual models that exist today tackle only the most subtle nuances of human beliefs. Of course, it wasn't always this way. The more we peak back beyond the veil of history, the more supernatural, that is "virtual" elements we can see in peoples' daily lives.

I don't believe in any of that. I am ethical and generally follow the moral system because its efficient and serves its purpose.

I do realize that what we call the real world is just reality as interpreted through our senses, so in a way it is a virtual reality as well.

 

[Mockerre]

Most people live in partially virtual worlds already.

Do you believe in a diety, his miracles and work on Earth, and you live by his commandments that, for all intents and purposes cannot be proven or objectively measured? Bam! You live in a virtual world.

Do you have a moral system? Strict ethics, a code of conduct an honor system? Do you believe in untangible laws like human rights? Bam! You live in a virtual world.

Do you believe in love? Karma? Destiny? Happy coincidences? Bam, etc.

You get my drift The only difference between those and video games in the totality of the vision: most partial virtual models that exist today tackle only the most subtle nuances of human beliefs. Of course, it wasn't always this way. The more we peak back beyond the veil of history, the more supernatural, that is "virtual" elements we can see in peoples' daily lives.

 

[HolyBaikal]

Socialism? Ew.

When I say socialist, I mean that I like Peter Kropotkin.

Or I guess I also mean that I think everyone should have the means of production.
When most jobs are done by robots I guess robots would be one of the means of production.

 

[kyser73]

It's not naive to want change, I think it's naive to believe it could work.


A completely equal society has been shown to be essentially impossible. Humans are inherently greedy, and all it takes is for one group to decide they deserve more and the entire system collapses. Read Animal Farm, it sounds great in theory, however when you look deeper, human nature destroys the idea.

Humans aren't inherently anything, and the notion of 'human nature' has pretty much been a dead issue in philosophy & science for ages.

There are reasons humans are greedy - if we don't hoard wealth in the society we live in, we starve. If we don't protect that hoarded wealth, our children will starve in the future.

All you need to do is play VR Dark Souls and you'll be prepared for what life will throw at you.

I don't get why VR needs to substitute everything and if it does end up substituting anything is probably because its better.



Capitalism always being the villain in a video game forum is absolutely hilarious.

A great way to use VR would be to place people in virtual worlds where they could enact their fantasies of changing the world without killing millions of people and leaving the rest of us alone.

Yeah, because capitalism never killed anyone, did it? There have never been resource wars fought by capitalists, or empires built which enslaved or impoverished millions,

No, only those failed experiments at socialism have ever killed anyone.

 

[Marcel]

All you need to do is play VR Dark Souls and you'll be prepared for what life will throw at you.

I don't get why VR needs to substitute everything and if it does end up substituting anything is probably because its better.

I doubt we'll reach the point in our lifetimes where VR is the life-substitute, so to speak. However, we're already at the point where so many distractions and connections exist that it serves to both spread your identity out while also isolating it at the same time. It benefits those in power because you will be more concerned with what's happening in your vast-but-limited web of interests and communities than what's happening in the world.

VR will not change this. It will connect others who feel lonely, sure, but at the expense of further distracting you from what the oligarchy does to fuck you over everyday.

All you need to do is play VR Dark Souls and you'll be prepared for what life will throw at you.

I don't get why VR needs to substitute everything and if it does end up substituting anything is probably because its better.



Capitalism always being the villain in a video game forum is absolutely hilarious.

A great way to use VR would be to place people in virtual worlds where they could enact their fantasies of changing the world without killing millions of people and leaving the rest of us alone.

If you think late-stage capitalism and neoliberalism aren't villains, you're deluding yourself more than the people advocating for living in VR.

 

[jem0208]

It just shows who they truly are.

Even if this were true (and I don't think it is) isn't that exactly the opposite of what OP wants with VR? If people truly are just assholes then you won't want to communicate with them via the internet because then they can be assholes without any consequences.

Once again, you're sitting there and accepting what you see as an inevitability. Why not make the change and not stare at your phone if you don't want to, then get the people around you to do the same.

It's small changes like that, that add up and change things for everyone. If for example you were to get 10 people to change to energy efficient lightbulbs and they all did the same with another 10 people, sooner or later everyone who could would be using them. Change is like a chain reaction.

I don't think the change you want to happen would be work. There are very few downsides to putting energy efficient light bulbs in, hence people are happy to do it.


On the surface, your idea of society looks great. However deeper down I don't think it would work. Being unemployed isn't fun unless you have enough money to do so comfortably. And without jobs, having enough money to live comfortably is hard.



I also don't think life is anywhere near as bad as you make it out to be.

 

[StayDead]

And without jobs, having enough money to live comfortably is hard.

That's why the point is that food, water, shelter and heating should be free. It's not impossible to be free now if people opened their wallets. We could quite lliterally solve world hunger and homelessness tomorrow if everyone of the top 5% were to release their funds into helping people, but they simply won't.

 

[Freeman]

If you think late-stage capitalism and neoliberalism aren't villains, you're deluding yourself more than the people advocating for living in VR.

Villains as opposed to what?

I live in Latin america, were in 2014 we still have people who believe this sort of BS, the end result is Venezuela, Cuba and by the looks of it Argentina and who knows what other countries are going down the same hole.

There is nothing better to fool people than empty promises of equality and there is nothing worse for them than trying to enforce it.

No one needs to be equal as long as everyone is doing well, capitalism is great for producing wealth and with some fine tuning you might end up with a very decent place to live.

 

[HolyBaikal]

It's a fake world and it pales when compared to the real thing. It just can't be emulated.

But... why would it pale in comparison?

 

[jem0208]

That's why the point is that food, water, shelter and heating should be free. It's not impossible to be free now if people opened their wallets. We could quite lliterally solve world hunger and homelessness tomorrow if everyone of the top 5% were to release their funds into helping people, but they simply won't.

That's not what I meant by living comfortably. That's the basics. Comfortably is having enough money to go do what you want to do. If you don't have a job or enough money to do the things you enjoy, what's the point?

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Wanting to be in a virtual world? Nothing.
Wanting to live in a virtual world? Everything.

You are not virtual. Your body and brain have evolved over millions of years to deal, react, integrate and respond to the real. Your entire physical and mental being, is linked to reality in a way that can never be removed. Aside from the myriad of social issues already mentioned, it is a lie. You would be living inside something that doesn't exist, a culmination of however many people worked on it. That is not a world, but a program, however large it gets.

I would be seriously concerned if I came across someone that actually wanted to live inside a virtual world, because it is a disconnect from everything that person actually is, and the life they have, which cannot be truly escaped from. If a person 'needs' to go to that level to escape their stresses and such, then they have bigger issues to deal with, in my view.

It's akin to saying what's wrong with living in space. The answer being you are not supposed to live there, physically or mentally. You would die because you cannot survive there. VR would kill you also if you did not leave, unless you eat, sleep and shit in a VR world, which presumably would be an issue. It's a weird concept, that has obviously troublesome connotations. It's not like anyone asking this cannot see them for themselves.

 

[PaulloDEC]

I think how attractive the idea is hinges on how effectively you could let yourself sink into a virtual world.

I don't think I'd be good at it. Every day I'd still have to go to work, knowing that my real life was going nowhere while I sank my free time into a world that would cease to exist if the power went out. Every night when I shut my PC down I'd have to lie down in the dark knowing that nothing I'd just done was ever real. It'd be like that feeling you get when you realise you've spent all night doing nothing but idly browsing Gaf, multiplied by a thousand (sorry Gaf).

The things you work through in real life aren't always enjoyable or fun, but for most of us those events are constantly adding points to the only experience bar that really matters.

If you're the kind of person who thinks they could be happy leading those two lives simultaneously, more power to you. My life is in the real world though, and feel like I owe it to myself to make that existence my number one priority.

 

[Marcel]

Villains as opposed to what?

I live in Latin america, were in 2014 we still have people who believe this sort of BS, the end result is Venezuela, Cuba and by the looks of it Argentina and who knows what other countries are going down the same hole.

There is nothing better to fool people than empty promises of equality and there is nothing worse for them than trying to enforce it.

Those places are perfect examples where exploitative people subvert ideals and use them for their own ends. Blame the greed, not the philosophy.

Globalization usually subverts a state's capacity for self-determination. They don't even get a shot at figuring things out before investors and outside forces begin to slowly erode the quality of life for the people living there. Trickle-down economics is nice idea but it's just the same old bullshit with a bow on it.

No one needs to be equal as long as everyone is doing well, capitalism is great for producing wealth and with some fine tuning you might end up with a very decent place to live.

The fuck?

 

[HolyBaikal]

Aside from the myriad of social issues already mentioned, it is a lie. You would be living inside something that doesn't exist, a culmination of however many people worked on it. That is not a world, but a program, however large it gets.

Well, as virtual realities become more and more real, and more and more information and things can be digital, almost anything can be digital or be in a virtual world.

If you make a song, and only release it on the internet by putting it on Youtube or soundcloud or something like that, it still exists, doesn't it? In a way, everything is information. So virtual worlds are kind of real in a way.

If I upload my consciousness to the internet, I'm still real. And virtual worlds can be places where people create and discover things. People can make music or do math make art in virtual worlds. Aren't digital things still real?

 

[killatopak]

fuck the haters. I want it nao.

 

[jem0208]

Well, as virtual realities become more and more real, and more and more information and things can be digital, almost anything can be digital or be in a virtual world.

If you make a song, and only release it on the internet by putting it on Youtube or soundcloud or something like that, it still exists, doesn't it? In a way, everything is information. So virtual worlds are kind of real in a way.

If I upload my consciousness to the internet, I'm still real. And virtual worlds can be places where people create and discover things. People can make music or do math make art in virtual worlds. Aren't digital things still real?

Are you really?

 

[Marcel]

Well, as virtual realities become more and more real, and more and more information and things can be digital, almost anything can be digital or be in a virtual world.

If you make a song, and only release it on the internet by putting it on Youtube or soundcloud or something like that, it still exists, doesn't it? In a way, everything is information. So virtual worlds are kind of real in a way.

If I upload my consciousness to the internet, I'm still real. And virtual worlds can be places where people create and discover things. People can make music or do math make art in virtual worlds. Aren't digital things still real?

You will be unhappy in the virtual world too, eventually. It's the "vacation" fallacy. Going to another place won't fix the problem that's in yourself.

 

[killatopak]

Well, as virtual realities become more and more real, and more and more information and things can be digital, almost anything can be digital or be in a virtual world.

If you make a song, and only release it on the internet by putting it on Youtube or soundcloud or something like that, it still exists, doesn't it? In a way, everything is information. So virtual worlds are kind of real in a way.

If I upload my consciousness to the internet, I'm still real. And virtual worlds can be places where people create and discover things. People can make music or do math make art in virtual worlds. Aren't digital things still real?

Well the thing is there are still people that cling to something physical. Just take gaming for example. There pros and cons to buying something digital.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

But... why would it pale in comparison?

Because part of the beauty of reality comes from knowing that its actually real.

 

[Marcel]

Because part of the beauty of reality comes from knowing that its actually real.

This is more naive than the people thinking they can escape their problems in virtual reality. Reality as a concept is terribly subjective and its fluid nature has been argued about for thousands of years.

 

[HolyBaikal]

You will be unhappy in the virtual world too, eventually. It's the "vacation" fallacy. Going to another place won't fix the problem that's in yourself.

I don't think so. I'm pretty happy already. And when I'm doing things that I love, I'm always happier.

 

[emalord]

In virtuality you will never regret the death of your father, the regret of never telling him how much you did love him, the "Thank you" you never had the chance to tell him. The feelings you owe to a chunck of flesh and to a heart of a man I hardly believe are possible to find in a virtual world. Even if I can acknowledge that some other feelings can be strong also on the other side

 

[Captain Tuttle]

There's nothing wrong with wanting to live in a virtual world.

Just don't neglect the real one.

I think the very act of "living in a virtual world" requires neglecting the real one.

Escaping from real life with a headset is the same thing as escaping real life with a bottle of booze or a needle.

 

[Freeman]

Those places are perfect examples where exploitative people subvert ideals and use them for their own ends. Blame the greed, not the philosophy.

Globalization usually subverts a state's capacity for self-determination. They don't even get a shot at figuring things out before investors and outside forces begin to slowly erode the quality of life for the people living there. Trickle-down economics is nice idea but it's just the same old bullshit with a bow on it.



The fuck?

What is so hard to understand about that? It isn't a romantic way of looking at things, but it is how things are. Rich countries, as in high GDP per captia, are generally much better places to live, even for those that are "poor" in those countries, specially if it is a democracy.

Keep dreaming of the revolution while everyone else try to realistic improve things.

 

[jem0208]

I think the very act of "living in a virtual world" requires neglecting the real one.

Escaping from real life with a headset is the same thing as escaping real life with a bottle of booze or a needle.

I don't think this is true.


Escapism is fine, as long as it's in moderation. Spending a few hours playing video games is escapism, and that's perfectly fine. Spending the majority of your life "escaping" is where it becomes a problem.

 

[Marcel]

What is so hard to understand about that? It isn't a romantic way of looking at things, but it is how things are. Rich countries, as in high GDP per captia, are generally much better places to live, even for those that are "poor" in those countries.

"It is what it is", "it's how things are" are among the bludgeons that the people in power use to put the working class in their place. You advocate for the status quo and "realist" do-nothing nonsense. What bravery.

Keep dreaming of the revolution while everyone else try to realistic improve things.

Keep dreaming of a world where neoliberalism and capitalism actually elevates people rather than subvert them into an economic servant state where the rich inevitably benefit.

 

[HolyBaikal]

Are you really?

As real as I need to be.

 

[kyser73]

Well, as virtual realities become more and more real, and more and more information and things can be digital, almost anything can be digital or be in a virtual world.

If you make a song, and only release it on the internet by putting it on Youtube or soundcloud or something like that, it still exists, doesn't it? In a way, everything is information. So virtual worlds are kind of real in a way.

If I upload my consciousness to the internet, I'm still real. And virtual worlds can be places where people create and discover things. People can make music or do math make art in virtual worlds. Aren't digital things still real?

Music is a product of consciousness, and has been abstracted since the invention of stave notation. Arguably it doesn't exist without the skill or means to play it - sheet music without the ability to interpret it and play an instrument is no different to staring at the strong of binary that makes up an MP3 file.

Can you define what your consciousness actually is? Is it, as Dennet would argue, a necessary illusion? Is our unitary consciousness merely an evolutionary adaptation to severe environmental stress as argued by Julian Jaynes in his book on the ending of the bicameral mind? How can you know what you upload to the internet is actually your consciousness, and not some kind of automaton?

 

[Freeman]

"It is what it is", "it's how things are" are among the bludgeons that the people in power use to put the working class in their place. You advocate for the status quo and "realist" do-nothing nonsense. What bravery.



Keep dreaming of a world where neoliberalism and capitalism actually elevates people rather than subvert them into an economic servant state where the rich inevitably benefit.

Just out of curiosity where are you from? Your age I already know.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Because your ass could get lost in it and forget whats really important. Even here on neogaf everyone is somewhat living in a "virtual world"

 

[kyser73]

"It is what it is", "it's how things are" are among the bludgeons that the people in power use to put the working class in their place. You advocate for the status quo and "realist" do-nothing nonsense. What bravery.



Keep dreaming of a world where neoliberalism and capitalism actually elevates people rather than subvert them into an economic servant state where the rich inevitably benefit.

There really isn't any point arguing after this gem:

No one needs to be equal as long as everyone is doing well, capitalism is great for producing wealth

 

[Marcel]

Just out of curiosity where are you from?

I don't see why my personal information is relevant to the discussion where you're doing free damage control for the ruling class and apologizing for the status quo. You should be demanding a wage from the masters you're stumping for.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Yeah, because capitalism never killed anyone, did it? There have never been resource wars fought by capitalists, or empires built which enslaved or impoverished millions,

No, only those failed experiments at socialism have ever killed anyone.

All of these failed socioeconomic philosophies, maybe it's just Human Nature after all.

 

[DoktorEvil]

My thoughts on a VR future:

I believe VR as a technology has the power to fundamentally change lives both in consumer entertainment and in practical applications with the military and other fields where large scale deployment training is required. Having simulations that allow you the luxury of making mistakes only to learn from them is a powerful tool.

Airplane pilots have those type of technologies. They are given in home flight simulators to train and fine-tune their talents. Anything that gives skilled labor better training is all positive to me.

As far as VR technologies in the consumer entertainment space... there are things that can be tools for training, like teaching someone the experiences of swimming without being in water or game experiences when you can literally be Doom guy, running around killing demons and feeling the actual shock of being tagged by a fireball. I love the potential that in home VR experiences can have.

But I also live in the real world, with real responsibilities and real obligations and real issues that have to be faced head on. No amount of VR will fix the fact that I have to support myself and work to support people. I have motivations that extend beyond escapism, motivations that no VR experience can replace. VR doesn't solve racial issues, sexuality issues, or financial issues. VR doesn't solve long tern macro and micro economic issues or decides how I should vote for social issues.

I have a very finite lifespan on this Earth. I'd rather experience actual experiences and use my digital world to experience something I'd never have the opportunity to experience in the real world.

HolyBaikal, tell me, why do you believe a VR future is so much better than human based real world experiences?

Well, as virtual realities become more and more real, and more and more information and things can be digital, almost anything can be digital or be in a virtual world.

If you make a song, and only release it on the internet by putting it on Youtube or soundcloud or something like that, it still exists, doesn't it? In a way, everything is information. So virtual worlds are kind of real in a way.

If I upload my consciousness to the internet, I'm still real. And virtual worlds can be places where people create and discover things. People can make music or do math make art in virtual worlds. Aren't digital things still real?

You are talking about compressed data that has recorded sound being transferred among multiple people.

Despite what you may believe about VR, no "uploading of consciousness" on the Internet is going to fix your hangups of social issues.

 

[Freeman]

There really isn't any point arguing after this gem:

What is wrong about that? Its pretty straight forward.

I don't see why my personal information is relevant to the discussion where you're doing free damage control for the ruling class and apologizing for the status quo. You should be demanding a wage from the masters you're stumping for.

Just helps getting a perspective of where those ideas you have are coming from. Usually they tend to come from someone who already benefits from everything capitalism has to offer and are bored enough to think they can save the world.

 

[Marcel]

What is wrong about that? Its pretty straight forward.

"No one needs to be equal". You are absolutely insane if you think that's an okay statement in 2014.

 

[Parfait]

I don't believe this at all. As I said in a previous post, anonymity brings out the worst in people. People online are also far less honest about who they are. It's far easier to lie on the internet than it is face to face.


Also I would hate to live in a world where face to face communication was considered outdated. How depressing would that be. It's sad enough that we spend the majority of our time staring at our phones than actually talking to the people around us.

I don't want every conversation I have to be over voice or video calls. It still pales in comparison to the real thing.

Talking to someone, face to face, on the same physical space has no replacement.

And I do touch people when I'm with them in real life.



I'm as honest face-to-face as I am on the internet. What you are saying isn't true. I've had plenty of honest conversations with people face to face.

What makes it worse is that it isn't the same and it should replace the real thing. Talking to someone on the internet is not the same as doing it face to face. It's worse and it shouldn't replace that form of interaction. Ever. It isn't healthy.

I haven't had this experience at all. I have not met a single genuine person growing up or when I worked.

I just can't agree that face-to-face is superior when you're limited by how far you travel, how much money you have, your race, your status, your class, because of societal issues and stigma. Most of that disappears online. Yeah, there are cruel anonymous people, but generalizing them like that is kind of a shit move.

 

[Narukami]

I'd live in the 2D realm, so that I don't have to deal with 3DPD people.

 

[Freeman]

"No one needs to be equal". You are absolutely insane if you think that's an okay statement in 2014.

I was obvious referring to equally wealthy, spin my words if that helps you.

And if you can't understand that people don't need to be equally wealthy than you lack understanding of human nature.

 

[Marcel]

What is wrong about that? Its pretty straight forward.



Just helps getting a perspective of where those ideas you have are coming from. Usually they tend to come from someone who already benefits from everything capitalism has to offer and are bored enough to think they can save the world.

You want to use my personal information against me in a flimsy way so you can have your satisfaction. Got it.

 

[Freeman]

You want to use my personal information against me in a flimsy way so you can have your satisfaction. Got it.

Yep. Let me have that at least, spread the wealth.