It would look like this somewhat
That is a 3D model.
No not computer generated. Its a stop motion of several 3D modeled sculptures. Ok so kind of computer generated.
Looks good to me...... Beautiful.
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When will retro-inspired games move onto low-poly PS1/N64 graphics?
- Thread starter PeakPointMatrix
- Start date
Looks good to me...... Beautiful.
I think its hard to visualize, but the idea of low poly geometry paired with more modern visual features and effects could be interesting. I'm not sure how much this will be pursued, although I have seen a few kickstarters with that sort of look I suppose. I'm not really sure how many 2d games are being made that actually look "retro", ala Shovel Knight, either.
Magic Mushroom
Member
I just want good games.
By the way, this whole notion that almost all indies and downloadables are 8 or 16-bit retro side-scrollers needs to go.
Look at The Witness, A Hat in Time, The Vanshing of Ethan Carter, Ghost of a Tale, SOMA, Routine, That Dragon, Cancer, No Man's Sky, the list goes on and on.
By the way, this whole notion that almost all indies and downloadables are 8 or 16-bit retro side-scrollers needs to go.
Look at The Witness, A Hat in Time, The Vanshing of Ethan Carter, Ghost of a Tale, SOMA, Routine, That Dragon, Cancer, No Man's Sky, the list goes on and on.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
if that's Spelunky HD it totally doesn't belong with the other legitimately retro games in the OP. Its physics, image quality and detail are light years beyond what was even imaginable in the 8/16/32 bit days. It's like including an Ubiart Rayman game cause it's 2d. At least those play like 16 bit games (unlike Spelunky).
On topic, there are plenty of recent and upcoming games that go for a clean 'early 3d' look such as A Hat in Time, 90's Arcade Racer, Scale, Race the Sun, Paper Sorcerer, Planetary Annihilation, the new Carmageddon... though admittedly most are more Dreamcast than N64
On topic, there are plenty of recent and upcoming games that go for a clean 'early 3d' look such as A Hat in Time, 90's Arcade Racer, Scale, Race the Sun, Paper Sorcerer, Planetary Annihilation, the new Carmageddon... though admittedly most are more Dreamcast than N64
Actually cost is one of the reasons I'd want to see this happen. A main reason so many people make retro-styled indie games is because they don't have the money or other resources to make games that look like The Witcher 3. The problem is, I and a lot of other people are tired of the majority of these indie games being 2D. We're starting to creep out of that trend, especially on PC, but it's a really slow process. The Minecraft clones are probably the first stage of this.
If low-polygon graphics are what it takes for one guy or a group of five guys to be able to be able to make a 3D game with deep gameplay, then so be it. Indie developers keep trying to resurrect old genres, yet no one has really started resurrecting the immersive sim yet. The only real notable example we have so far is Eldritch. I would totally be there if some indie studio successfully made a game like Deus Ex, Thief, or System Shock 2, even if that game ended up having the same quality graphics as Deus Ex, Thief, or System Shock 2.
I guess a counter-point to this is that a lot of indies have already displayed the ability to make 3D games that basically look like PS3/360 games. Amnesia spawned a new wave of first person horror games that at least look as good as early 360 games, and a lot of indies have been able to do impressive things with Unreal Engine. So maybe going all the way down to PS1 era graphics isn't quite necessary.
If low-polygon graphics are what it takes for one guy or a group of five guys to be able to be able to make a 3D game with deep gameplay, then so be it. Indie developers keep trying to resurrect old genres, yet no one has really started resurrecting the immersive sim yet. The only real notable example we have so far is Eldritch. I would totally be there if some indie studio successfully made a game like Deus Ex, Thief, or System Shock 2, even if that game ended up having the same quality graphics as Deus Ex, Thief, or System Shock 2.
I guess a counter-point to this is that a lot of indies have already displayed the ability to make 3D games that basically look like PS3/360 games. Amnesia spawned a new wave of first person horror games that at least look as good as early 360 games, and a lot of indies have been able to do impressive things with Unreal Engine. So maybe going all the way down to PS1 era graphics isn't quite necessary.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
I love FF9 as much as the next person, but that's WAY beyond the budget & staff size of any indie team I know, even the bigger, more successful ones (other than say Mojang). For that matter, FF7 is beyond the budget & staff size of any indie team I know.
Unlike the old days there is a growing middleware market for developers to help them save time and money. Not just for engines but also for assets. I think this is pretty much the future for game development, just like the software market for music. Let's say you need an animation for a human climbing a rope. Instead of having to create that animation yourself using expensive mocap or whatever, there's already a canned animation out there that you can purchase and implement into your game.
With that kind of environment small independent developers can easily create games that eclipse early 3D games in presentation. Hell, I subscribed to a site that provides high quality, ready-to-use textures with normal/heigth maps and everything, just so I could use them for my noncommercial modding hobbies.
Well the FF games had huge budgets for their time, but mostly due to CGI cut-scenes and pre-rendered backgrounds which were needed at the time to get any kind of real detail into backgrounds. Conceivably it would be much cheaper to go 100% real time with today's tools and hardware. Like say a nice, cleaned up Vagrant Story. Or is that out of reach as well?
Edit: For giggles more random pics
We're taking the music on Drift Stage pretty seriously:
http://youtu.be/794NSkRWQJ0
https://soundcloud.com/myroneofficial
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Well, just moving from 2D exploration & combat to 3D exploration & combat is a huge increase in workload for an RPG. Something like Vagrant Story would be much more doable than FF9 though since Vagrant Story has a much smaller scope.
nkarafo
Member
That's a bad analogy. There were more primitive 3D graphics than PS1/N64. 8bit/16bit home computers solid/non textured 3D games for instance. Or late 80's/early 90's PC flight simulators. And how about the early 80's arcade vector graphics?
the low poly hate is real
PSA: Just like how people grew up with NES and SNES, there were actually babies born after you who grew up with PS1/N64. They're starting to get to that age where they're feeling nostalgic and low poly will be the next big indie trend. None of this has to do with how it objectively looks, just like how people thought sprite/border flicker in sprite based indie games was "cute" despite it being an ugly glitch on the nes.
so congrats, you've now lived through the point where even the nostalgia wave for your favorite old sprite-based system is over and you're yelling at slightly younger adults to get off your lawn.
nothing left to do but retire, then die.
PSA: Just like how people grew up with NES and SNES, there were actually babies born after you who grew up with PS1/N64. They're starting to get to that age where they're feeling nostalgic and low poly will be the next big indie trend. None of this has to do with how it objectively looks, just like how people thought sprite/border flicker in sprite based indie games was "cute" despite it being an ugly glitch on the nes.
so congrats, you've now lived through the point where even the nostalgia wave for your favorite old sprite-based system is over and you're yelling at slightly younger adults to get off your lawn.
nothing left to do but retire, then die.
my gut instinct says they'll skip it, but there might be a place for relatively simplistic 3D - so less of the fancy shaders and lighting, and keep with simple polygons and textures. But they would be more like the early arcade games of the time rather than PS1 (with its wonky 3D) or N64 (with super low polycounts). So think virtua racing or Daytona
In a way that is like the current '8 bit' games. Most of those you would have no chance of them actually running on a NES - you have too many colours per sprite, too many on each scan line. They look more like your childhood brain remembered those NES games ('wow, it looks so real'). And any move into 3D would be similar I think.
Counterspy gives me that vibe at the moment.
In a way that is like the current '8 bit' games. Most of those you would have no chance of them actually running on a NES - you have too many colours per sprite, too many on each scan line. They look more like your childhood brain remembered those NES games ('wow, it looks so real'). And any move into 3D would be similar I think.
Counterspy gives me that vibe at the moment.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Mother of fuck, this music is amazing. Nails the vibe completely.
I've never really been a fan of the low-poly look of PS1 / N64 games. They haven't really aged well, especially compared to the 8-bit or 16-bit sprite graphics that are so popular in indie/retro games today.
Maybe something will come along to change my mind ... the gifs in the OP look quite nice.
Maybe something will come along to change my mind ... the gifs in the OP look quite nice.
Muffdraul
Member
Fine, we can lump your examples in to the 3D side too. As far as I'm concerned the analogy stands. The point being that 16-bit style 2D graphics were evolved enough to create truly polished beauty... whereas in the mid to late '90s, 3D graphics were still in their early infancy, and even the best looking games from that era generally have to be qualified- "It looks beautiful... for a PS1/N64 game."
Seeing as I love the pictures found in the "Nintendo DS Games in HD" thread, I'd love to see developers try creating some stylized low-poly games: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=798812
It's clean and looks great. Perhaps a bit strange since pixel art will rarely age, and today you always have Unity with better graphics, but hopefully some developers will pick up this style.
Or at the very least I hope we see more variation when it comes to pixel art retro-inspired games.
It's clean and looks great. Perhaps a bit strange since pixel art will rarely age, and today you always have Unity with better graphics, but hopefully some developers will pick up this style.
Or at the very least I hope we see more variation when it comes to pixel art retro-inspired games.
SeventhSon
Member
Yeah, here's a retort for those who think low-poly has to have the same look/limitations of Playstation/N64.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Sure, for the most part the 3D of this era aged badly, but as has been repeated in the thread, that doesn't mean a retro game using this style would have to emulate every single technical limitation of the time. Just like pixel art retro games don't necessarily have a super limited colour palette or flickering sprites and so on.
And personally, I find this
I really have no idea how hard those types of graphics would be to create for indie devs, however. I know the super primitive pixel art is often done for budget reasons, but then again it's also done on purpose, for stylistic reasons as well, so it's not all there is to it.
And personally, I find this
to look a million times better than, say, this (but I'm probably in the minority):
.png)
I really have no idea how hard those types of graphics would be to create for indie devs, however. I know the super primitive pixel art is often done for budget reasons, but then again it's also done on purpose, for stylistic reasons as well, so it's not all there is to it.
LOL
I agree with this. Though the genre I'd like 'resurrected' is the huge scope 3d adventure game of the late nineties and early 00s. Soul Reaver, Outcast, Shadow Man, early Tomb Raiders, Sphynx and the cursed Mummy, Banjo Tooie, Redguard, Galleon etc. Daring games that didn't give a fuck if you got lost or stuck playing them and were all the better for it.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I agree with you. Soul Reaver gave you vague directions, but you had to figure out where to go yourself. No map, no quest markers, no detective mode, no hand-holding. Figure it out!immortal-joe
Member
Good design is good design is good design.
If someone were to give me a spiritual successor to PS1-era greats like Tenchu or Bushido Blade (while keeping the PS1 aesthetic), I'd throw my wallet at them so hard.
If someone were to give me a spiritual successor to PS1-era greats like Tenchu or Bushido Blade (while keeping the PS1 aesthetic), I'd throw my wallet at them so hard.
One person in this game mentioned Sega Model 1 and Model 2 games. That's the retro 3D I probably miss the most.
And I'm also just realizing I don't think I've ever seen an indie game try to take on the style of games like Final Fantasy Tactics, Grandia 1, or Dragon Quest 6 -- 2D sprites on basic 3D isometric environments.
And I'm also just realizing I don't think I've ever seen an indie game try to take on the style of games like Final Fantasy Tactics, Grandia 1, or Dragon Quest 6 -- 2D sprites on basic 3D isometric environments.
Winterfang
Banned
Hopefully never, those where the dark days.
This post reminded me Ive wanted a low-poly Snake/hi-poly Snake buddy cop adventure ever since I saw this picture
Dat low rez beard texture.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
ichtyander
Member
This post reminded me Ive wanted a low-poly Snake/hi-poly Snake buddy cop adventure ever since I saw this picture
Interesting thing to note is that those TF2 models have little under 500 tris while MGS1's Solid Snake had 690 tris. Now I'm not really bashing on the Solid Snake model, it's pretty nice apart from the awkward square arms and legs but just looking at the TF2 models you can see better polygon distribution and can get an idea of how today people can make better, more optimized and artistically tighter PS1 era graphics. Not to mention advances in animation, lighting, HDR and shader effects etc.
We are WAY overdue for games like these. I'm tired of these countless SNES and NES era 2D games, it's time we paid tribute to one of the most influential game generations ever. People dismissing the 3D of that era is crazy to me; it's like dismissing 8-bit and 16-bit graphics.
Its amazing artistry. Also Mario 64 DS had substantially lower poly count to the N64 version despite looking dramatically more detailed.
Again 5th gen era assets with modern rendering is a great direction.
Paracelsus
Member
I was told by someone into developing (and someone working on some very relevant game hack gaf wants) that the DS has a lower polycount than PS1. Never bothered to check though.
It's really very simple, modelers have gotten much better. Back then they were kind of walking blind.
ichtyander
Member
I agree, you can even see this during the course of just one console generation, how games become technically more advanced on the same hardware while artists get much more comfortable with it, learn new tricks and are assisted by said technical advancements.
An extreme example of this would be the demoscene, where you can see more advanced 3D graphics, algorithms or video playback on a Commodore 64, stuff that basically hadn't been invented or thought possible in the 80s.
Secret Fawful
Member
I hope so. Hopefully soon too. Low poly models can be gorgeous. When I think of them I think of Rareware and Capcom and my heart warms up. All it takes is some imagination.
I do believe that is a hard limit, either at 24, 30 or 60 fps. So to get maximum theoretical poly count with a really good engine you actually have to push for 60 fps. A very interesting limitation and the opposite of just about any other system of all time.
Pretty much.
clem84
Gold Member
And we're done here.
Gun Animal
Member
yo to answer the OP's question, 3D graphics, even low poly ones, require more time and effort than 2D graphics, generally speaking. This is coming from a wannabe indie dev: Even though I know what I'm doing with 3D art, in the amount of time it takes me just to model, texture and rig something along the lines of Link's model in OoT, I could have made complete sprite sets for five or ten characters in a platformer, or 20 in something like a top-down RPG. That's not even getting into animating that 3D model, which to create a set of basic animations from scratch (walking, running, jumping, attacking, taking damage, dying) would add twice as much time.
And the results wouldn't look half as good as the 2D sprites.
So TL;DR pixel art is more practical for indie part-time game development.
And the results wouldn't look half as good as the 2D sprites.
So TL;DR pixel art is more practical for indie part-time game development.
Terrible_Majesty
Member
um, Minecraft?
Worst first post ever.
I hope they move from pixelated 2D to low poly 3D as soon as possible, the market is over saturated with 2d indie games. Some of this 3D art is beautiful.
MisterGrey3000
Member
Yep.
Non-2D 5th gen graphics are basically the 3D equivalent of the Atari 2600/ColecoVision's 2D renders; primitive-looking, and mostly ugly (and not in the "charming" way)
I mean...there are barely any games from that era that still hold up today outside of super stylized stuff like Crash Bandicoot 2 & 3.